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View Full Version : I'm not a college educated Mech Engineer(yet) BUT


Squid
07-27-2012, 11:29 AM
I've monkeyed with enough springs and stuff and I can't imagine how in this day and age ANY trigger mechanism doesn't have "perfect" feel, or at least exactly what the designer figures the majority of the users would want.

It is just springs and levers, and some friction points, which were all sorted out well over 100 years ago 'on paper' and in manufacturing.

I can't imagine any of it costing anything to make and make perfectly.

Aside from some makers specs for very heavy triggers for 'safety' are there any new guns with poor feel, even cheaper ones?


Last time I had a machine shop mill and weld something I asked for their cheapest and lowest accuracy and I don't remember what it was but it had a few zeros after the decimal and was basically beyond what the naked eye could perceive .

blockfort
07-27-2012, 11:39 AM
Are you familiar with the inner workings of say an XD or Glock trigger system vs a 1911?

The 1911 is a rotary system with a hammer and an almost knife edged sear. Since everything is on shafts, all mounted in the frame, everything stays put with very little slop, so you can get the tolerances down and engagement surfaces very small, about 0.012"

XD and Glock (and others) use a linear striker, and since it's sliding in a tube, the tolerances are limited. The striker has some wiggle room to keep it loose and fast. If it was too tight, the smallest grain of dirt or sand could jam the striker. Additionally, the striker is in the slide, and the sear is in the frame, so you also have to take into account the slop in the frame-slide engagement. Since the striker is loose relative to the sear, the sear engagement dimension must be larger than the amount of striker "wiggle", so you end up with a sear engagement of about 0.050", more than four times the amount of a 1911.

If you can figure out a cheap and reliable way of improving it, go for it, there is a huge aftermarket for those guns.

1911su16b870
07-27-2012, 1:49 PM
Mechanical Engineers figure out how how to wreck stuff built by Civil Engineers :D

QuarterBoreGunner
07-27-2012, 1:56 PM
This was very well thought and and elegantly explained. I like it.

Are you familiar with the inner workings of say an XD or Glock trigger system vs a 1911?

The 1911 is a rotary system with a hammer and an almost knife edged sear. Since everything is on shafts, all mounted in the frame, everything stays put with very little slop, so you can get the tolerances down and engagement surfaces very small, about 0.012"

XD and Glock (and others) use a linear striker, and since it's sliding in a tube, the tolerances are limited. The striker has some wiggle room to keep it loose and fast. If it was too tight, the smallest grain of dirt or sand could jam the striker. Additionally, the striker is in the slide, and the sear is in the frame, so you also have to take into account the slop in the frame-slide engagement. Since the striker is loose relative to the sear, the sear engagement dimension must be larger than the amount of striker "wiggle", so you end up with a sear engagement of about 0.050", more than four times the amount of a 1911.

If you can figure out a cheap and reliable way of improving it, go for it, there is a huge aftermarket for those guns.

boxcutter3005
07-27-2012, 2:36 PM
If you can figure out a cheap and reliable way of improving it, go for it, there is a huge aftermarket for those guns.

+1000

One thing I don't think they taught me well in my engineering program that I had to learn on the job, is what real world manufacturing costs and labor costs are like. Sure they put you in management classes and on projects that cost money, but that stuff is peanuts.