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View Full Version : Is Pres. Obama finally exposing his gun control agenda?


dantodd
07-25-2012, 6:38 PM
I know that a few folks here have calmed that the president isn't anti-gun.

In the wake of the Aurora shooting he has finally admitted that he wants to disarm us.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/07/obama-aks-belong-on-battlefield-not-streets-130141.html

"AK-47s... belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities"



It makes me wonder if he really doesn't want to be re-elected.

VW*Mike
07-25-2012, 6:39 PM
I'm wondering, why his campaign site mentions nothing on the 2A that I could find.

M1A_KICHI
07-25-2012, 6:42 PM
I don't see any AK-47's on the streets and didn't know we had them since what we have are NON-assault rifle copies of them. How did the AK get so much attention lately anyway? Didn't the shooter use an AR? (not saying to ban those either since I enjoy them).

SuperSet
07-25-2012, 6:43 PM
I read the speech the same way as you... as a floater to reintroducing the AWB. Time to mount up.

dantodd
07-25-2012, 6:45 PM
I don't see any AK-47's on the streets and didn't know we had them since what we have are NON-assault rifle copies of them. How did the AK get so much attention lately anyway?

If you really think that the best response this attack on our Second Amendment is to try and explain the difference between an AK and a clone then you have bigger problems than your 2A rights being abridged.

Josh.Ollar
07-25-2012, 6:47 PM
if the laws change could they go door to door taking firearms away from law abiding americans? i dont think i could do that

TNP'R
07-25-2012, 6:48 PM
if the laws change could they go door to door taking firearms away from law abiding americans? i dont think i could do that

Nope, they would allow the people that has them to keep them but no new ones could be bought.

RedMonkey
07-25-2012, 6:49 PM
Would he be able to establish a ban via an Executive Order?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

morfeeis
07-25-2012, 6:50 PM
I know that a few folks here have calmed that the president isn't anti-gun.

In the wake of the Aurora shooting he has finally admitted that he wants to disarm us.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/07/obama-aks-belong-on-battlefield-not-streets-130141.html

"AK-47s... belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities"



It makes me wonder if he really doesn't want to be re-elected.
I'm no fan of BHO but OMG man come on! You might want to point out that he said right before that that he knows that the right of the 2A means we can have weapons and he is for that. He was doing just fine untill he said that stupid AK47 crap. I've been around here to long as i'm starting to think the guy isn't as anti gun as most here make him out to be.

He's a media whore and right now the media is up in arms about gun control so what did he do? he played to the people just like everyone else has. In his past four years the guy hasn't disarmed us at all and i'm starting to think he won't. If we want to ***** about something ***** about how many laws the CA government has taken from us in the past 2 years.

Although that AK47 comment did piss me off. less then 5% of all crimes in America are done with "AW", if they want to focus on gun crimes shouldn't they go after handguns? but hey if gun laws made sense they wouldn't make laws to stop law breakers.

Kodemonkey
07-25-2012, 6:51 PM
I don't see any AK-47's on the streets and didn't know we had them since what we have are NON-assault rifle copies of them. How did the AK get so much attention lately anyway? Didn't the shooter use an AR? (not saying to ban those either since I enjoy them).

This coming from the people who invented "The Shoulder Thing that goes up"

Here's a short list of things the Politicians think they can fix but don't even have even a rudimentary understanding:

Guns
Medicine
Economics
Science & Technology

The list is endless...yet the populous expect the problems of the world can be solved by intellect and the stroke of a pen.

Steyr_223
07-25-2012, 6:51 PM
Lets see the Bill first..Let me give Barry a call and set him straight..I heard Ice T is calling him as well.

Skidmark
07-25-2012, 6:53 PM
Pure FUD. Obama has no gun control agenda.

TNP'R
07-25-2012, 6:54 PM
Pure FUD. Obama has no gun control agenda.

LOL

Legasat
07-25-2012, 6:57 PM
Pure FUD. Obama has no gun control agenda.

That's pretty funny righ there...:rofl::laugh::2:

GREASY357
07-25-2012, 6:58 PM
"AK-47s... belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities"

didn't his signing of NDAA technically make USA a battlefield?

M1A_KICHI
07-25-2012, 6:59 PM
If you really think that the best response this attack on our Second Amendment is to try and explain the difference between an AK and a clone then you have bigger problems than your 2A rights being abridged.

No that's not only what I think but what came to my mind initially.



This coming from the people who invented "The Shoulder Thing that goes up"

Here's a short list of things the Politicians think they can fix but don't even have even a rudimentary understanding:

Guns
Medicine
Economics
Science & Technology

The list is endless...yet the populous expect the problems of the world can be solved by intellect and the stroke of a pen.

The should thing that goes up just cracks me up. But what you wrote is so true.

m03
07-25-2012, 6:59 PM
Although that AK47 comment did piss me off. less then 5% of all crimes in America are done with "AW", if they want to focus on gun crimes shouldn't they go after handguns? but hey if gun laws made sense they wouldn't make laws to stop law breakers.

Speaking specifically to rifles, 2% are committed with rifles, which puts "AK47s" somewhere under 1% (likely WELL under 1%).

HowardW56
07-25-2012, 7:07 PM
Pure FUD. Obama has no gun control agenda.

:shock::shock::shock::shock:

Kappy
07-25-2012, 7:08 PM
The actual quote is even more interesting:
“But I also believe that a lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers and not in the hands of crooks. They belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities,” he added.

One could interpret it to mean that they are in the hands of "crooks" now.

Still... Obama has done more for gun rights than Bush did. :)

SuperSet
07-25-2012, 7:09 PM
I'm not sure Obama even knows which rifle our troops use.

POLICESTATE
07-25-2012, 7:10 PM
I look at it this way. An effort to infringe our rights even in the slightest degree is an effort to infringe on them all.

It always starts with one small step.

We have given up too much already.

dantodd
07-25-2012, 7:14 PM
I'm no fan of BHO but OMG man come on! You might want to point out that he said right before that that he knows that the right of the 2A means we can have weapons and he is for that. He was doing just fine untill he said that stupid AK47 crap. I've been around here to long as i'm starting to think the guy isn't as anti gun as most here make him out to be.


I really don't even know where to start with this. If you're OK with the AWB as long as Pres. Obama respects whatever guns he is talking about (most likely Bolt action hunting rifles and shotguns) then I suppose in your eyes he isn't anti-2A.

However; if you think the second amendment covers those weapons necessary to defend yourself against direct physical threat by "bad guys" and a tyrannical government then the idea that Pres. Obama might go after "Assault Weapons" and handguns should scare you terribly.

Meety Peety
07-25-2012, 7:16 PM
“As we convene these conversations, let’s be clear even as we debate government’s role, we have to understand that when a child opens fire on another child, there’s a hole in that child’s heart that government alone can’t fill," he said. "It’s got to be up to us as parents, as neighbors and as teachers and as mentors to make sure our young people don’t have that void inside them. It’s up to us to spend time with them. To pay more attention to them. To show them more love and they learn to love each other and they learn to love one another and they grow up knowing what it is to walk a mile in somebody else’s shoes and to view the world in somebody else’s eyes."

I don't know, to me this sounds like he actually realizes that #1 gun control will do nothing to stop random acts of violence and #2 that unfortunate events such as Aurora have nothing to do with the availability of firearms and everything to do with the individual's upbringing, mental status and current situation/surroundings. He said it himself, it's a void that government can't fill. To be honest, I see his statements more of an explanation to his fellow leftwingers as to why he won't be pushing some knee-jerk reaction based gun control in the wake of Aurora.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support Obama, but my lack of support is for other reasons, I really don't feel like gun control is even a top priority for him. Does that mean he's pro-gun? Of course not, but I think if he were to actively go after guns, it would be because the puppet masters wanted it to happen, in which case, the puppet really doesn't matter. A politician is a politician is a politician..

dantodd
07-25-2012, 7:16 PM
I'm not sure Obama even knows which rifle our troops use.

Perhaps he merely disagrees on who "our" is.

senorpeligro
07-25-2012, 7:35 PM
Or you could vote for the "other guy", you know... the one whom signed a AWB for MA.

OR.....

morfeeis
07-25-2012, 7:42 PM
Speaking specifically to rifles, 2% are committed with rifles, which puts "AK47s" somewhere under 1% (likely WELL under 1%).
correct, why do they focus on AR's and AK's when 9/10 people are killed by a hipoint C9 or an old jennings 25acp and not a $800 AK or a $1200 AR. yet another reason gun control laws make no sense to me.

The Wingnut
07-25-2012, 7:42 PM
In New Orleans, of all places? Maybe it was thought that the mayor and police force would side with the ideals being preached. The victims of their horrible policies following Katrina certainly wouldn't have lent a sympathetic ear.

“I – like most Americans – believe that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual the right to bear arms,” Obama said. “I think we recognize the traditions of gun ownership passed on from generation to generation, that hunting and shooting are part of a cherished national heritage.

He's a constitutional scholar? The Bill of Rights does not guarantee anything, it outlines and protects inherent human rights from government encroachment!

...and again, the tired 'sportsman and hunters' phrase.

Reality check: It's not about hunting or sporting use.

M1NM
07-25-2012, 7:43 PM
Pure FUD. Obama has no gun control agenda.

This is TRUE but, he has a gun confiscation agenda.

dantodd
07-25-2012, 7:45 PM
correct, why do they focus on AR's and AK's when 9/10 people are killed by a hipoint C9 or an old jennings 25acp and not a $800 AK or a $1200 AR. yet another reason gun control laws make no sense to me.

Because once he gets AR/AKs outlawed he will go after handguns.

mag360
07-25-2012, 7:46 PM
The tactic is to convince people that:

1. Ak 47s are everywhere
2. They are only useful for mass murders.
3. Anyone who diasagrees is insane or a criminal.
4. We need to ban them to keep your streets safe.

hoffmang
07-25-2012, 7:47 PM
Oh please oh please oh please President Obama! Please push for an AWB!!!

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/emoticons/Brer+rabbit+briar+patch.jpg

The Presidential race just got closer in the swing states!!!

-Gene

morfeeis
07-25-2012, 7:47 PM
I really don't even know where to start with this. If you're OK with the AWB as long as Pres. Obama respects whatever guns he is talking about (most likely Bolt action hunting rifles and shotguns) then I suppose in your eyes he isn't anti-2A.

However; if you think the second amendment covers those weapons necessary to defend yourself against direct physical threat by "bad guys" and a tyrannical government then the idea that Pres. Obama might go after "Assault Weapons" and handguns should scare you terribly.
BHO didn't sign the AWB and he hasn't started a new one. As i said later in my post the worst thing he said was the whole AK in the hands of blah blah blah....

Luieburger
07-25-2012, 7:49 PM
He's just got a deal cut with the firearms manufacturers. Watch NCIS checks skyrocket even more than they already are in the wake of the Aurora shooting.

ZombieTactics
07-25-2012, 7:53 PM
...
Still... Obama has done more for gun rights than Bush did. :)
That's a little like saying Hitler did great things for the Jews, because his actions ended up getting them their own country.

Unintended consequences cannot be placed in anyone's "plus" column, especially when those consequences run counter to their actual intentions and stated desires.

dantodd
07-25-2012, 7:53 PM
Oh please oh please oh please President Obama! Please push for an AWB!!!

The Presidential race just got closer in the swing states!!!

-Gene

My thoughts exactly. If he doesn't try to walk the dog back on this like he did the "you didn't build that" comment he will dramatically reduce his chances of being re-elected.

dantodd
07-25-2012, 7:54 PM
BHO didn't sign the AWB and he hasn't started a new one. As i said later in my post the worst thing he said was the whole AK in the hands of blah blah blah....

No, the worst thing he said is that AKs don't belong I the hands of civilians.

MudCamper
07-25-2012, 7:55 PM
Pure FUD. Obama has no gun control agenda.

Truth.

And after his second term is over, and he's still not pushed for any gun control, I get to say I told you so to 99% of all CalGunners.

Kappy
07-25-2012, 7:55 PM
That's a little like saying Hitler did great things for the Jews, because his actions ended up getting them their own country.

Unintended consequences cannot be placed in anyone's "plus" column, especially when those consequences run counter to their actual intentions and stated desires.

Godwin's Law?

It is nothing of the sort.

Obama has actually signed several pro-2A pieces of legislation. We can argue what we like, but those are facts. Start from facts, not baseless comparisons.

To quote Jon Stewart: "You know who else is like Hitler? HITLER is like Hitler."

o0RedEyE0o
07-25-2012, 7:56 PM
Pure FUD. Obama has no gun control agenda.

LOL

nicki
07-25-2012, 7:57 PM
The best thing Obama could do is to promote a new AWB, that would go over real well in the "swing states".

Actually he is dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't.

Now if someone would give Romney a "heart and brain" transplant, Obama could actually lose the election.

Nicki

dantodd
07-25-2012, 7:58 PM
Truth.

And after his second term is over, and he's still not pushed for any gun control, I get to say I told you so to 99% of all CalGunners.

And you don't feel his comments in Louisiana are "pushing for gun control?"

Since the president doesn't write legislation just how far does he have to go before you admit he is opposed to gun rights?

MudCamper
07-25-2012, 8:03 PM
And you don't feel his comments in Louisiana are "pushing for gun control?"

Since the president doesn't write legislation just how far does he have to go before you admit he is opposed to gun rights?

A politician giving a speech in which he tries to placate his idiot base is pushing an agenda? No. Not at all.

And he's done nothing to push any gun control agenda in his first term. Show me any evidence of that. The only thing he did do was sign a bill giving us carry in the National Parks.

Steyr_223
07-25-2012, 8:17 PM
mF-jdo7DZRw

SuperSet
07-25-2012, 8:33 PM
I'm with Gene. I hope he calls for it so at least all the cards are on the table.

o0RedEyE0o
07-25-2012, 8:41 PM
Passing any type of gun control in his 1st term would hinder his campaining for the 2nd term.

Like Diane Feinstein said about gun control "they will choose the time and place, no doubt about that." =/

stix213
07-25-2012, 9:02 PM
Understand when he says AK's shouldn't be on the streets, what he is referring to is you driving to the gun range.

otalps
07-25-2012, 9:12 PM
The actual quote is even more interesting:


One could interpret it to mean that they are in the hands of "crooks" now.

Still... Obama has done more for gun rights than Bush did. :)

Really? He gave us Alito and Roberts? I'll be damned.

morfeeis
07-25-2012, 9:17 PM
mF-jdo7DZRw
How is this any worse then what BHO said? We are so screwed in November, Tard #1 or Tard #2 i'm writing in Ron Paul, **** these guys.....

tpc13
07-25-2012, 9:30 PM
Ok, everyone think outside the box for a second. What if the government during time of an election fabricated a crisis. U say how can they do that? The same way they brainwash people it so simple we just dont realize. Now think about it. It's election year, fast and furious scandal, Obama and Holder executive privledge, crisis in Colorado, and the UN treaty. Hmmm makes u wonder. We all should be thinking when it's election time...

jonzer77
07-25-2012, 9:31 PM
A politician giving a speech in which he tries to placate his idiot base is pushing an agenda? No. Not at all.

And he's done nothing to push any gun control agenda in his first term. Show me any evidence of that. The only thing he did do was sign a bill giving us carry in the National Parks.

Of course he hasn't done anything antigun in his first term because he nows that would be political suicide and he wouldn't get a second term. He remembers what happened in 1994 and 2000 and wouldn't dare touch it in his first term.

DannyInSoCal
07-25-2012, 9:35 PM
I'm not sure Obama even knows which rifle our troops use.

Or cares.

Didn't Obama use an AK47AR when he killed Osama...?!?!?!

Maestro Pistolero
07-25-2012, 9:40 PM
How is this any worse then what BHO said? We are so screwed in November, Tard #1 or Tard #2 i'm writing in Ron Paul, **** these guys.....

That video scares the crap out of me.

MixedMotives
07-25-2012, 9:42 PM
While in theory im not against more stringent background checks but i must ask how would this be accomplished must we now submit a letter from a psychologist or get a DNA test to look for a crazy gene with our DROS

as for the only soldiers need ak's he does not speak for me long as get a letter from your doctor and pass your DNA test i think we all should have one

jamesob
07-25-2012, 9:45 PM
Some folks think that since he hasn't done anything yet, means he's not going to do anything. Hes trying to gain support for more gun control but and the same time he is not saying he is for it for because he needs votes. If re elected it's on like donkey kong.

MixedMotives
07-25-2012, 9:47 PM
How is this any worse then what BHO said? We are so screwed in November, Tard #1 or Tard #2 i'm writing in Ron Paul, **** these guys.....

whats unusually Lethality?? :rolleyes: dead is dead right

jonzer77
07-25-2012, 9:50 PM
While in theory im not against more stringent background checks but i must ask how would this be accomplished must we now submit a letter from a psychologist or get a DNA test to look for a crazy gene with our DROS

as for the only soldiers need ak's he does not speak for me long as get a letter from your doctor and pass your DNA test i think we all should have one

That is a slippery slope there......who is to say what is crazy? Your antigun psychiatrist?

morfeeis
07-25-2012, 10:51 PM
whats unusually Lethality?? :rolleyes: dead is dead right
I don't know but magpul will have a part out next week to add it to my AR.....

Ubermcoupe
07-25-2012, 10:56 PM
I'm no fan of BHO but OMG man come on! You might want to point out that he said right before that that he knows that the right of the 2A means we can have weapons and he is for that. He was doing just fine untill he said that stupid AK47 crap. I've been around here to long as i'm starting to think the guy isn't as anti gun as most here make him out to be...

Believe what you want...

"A lot of gun owners would agree that AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals -- that they belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities," the president, who has called for reimposing the Assault Weapons Ban, said in a speech to the National Urban League.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-urges-tighter-background-checks-gun-buyers-aurora-033815400.html

:no:

I might even go as far as to say he’s a moderate but he’s leaning too left now.


While I don’t see Romney as my next best friend, I take solace in the fact that he will have the Grand Ol’ Party pushing him in the right direction (read: a direction I agree with) as he progresses through his term as president.

IrishPirate
07-25-2012, 11:07 PM
Ok, everyone think outside the box for a second. What if the government during time of an election fabricated a crisis. U say how can they do that? The same way they brainwash people it so simple we just dont realize. Now think about it. It's election year, fast and furious scandal, Obama and Holder executive privledge, crisis in Colorado, and the UN treaty. Hmmm makes u wonder. We all should be thinking when it's election time...

guess it's time to invest in tin-foil hat companies :rolleyes:


Didn't Obama use an AK47AR when he killed Osama...?!?!?!

it was a full auto, GLOCK made, 50 caliber, AK47, sniper assault rifle with cop killer ammunition and a 1000 round detachable CLIP that he bought on the internet and had delivered to a P.O. box without a background check (shoulder-thing-that-goes-up was reportedly included at no additional cost).



Obama is a douche, but he's not an idiot. He knows he doesn't have popular support for another AWB so he's testing the waters. He can get away with saying things like this after a tragedy and he knows it. When he brings it up during an interview about education reform or calls a special press conference about gun control...that's when we need to worry

phdo
07-25-2012, 11:11 PM
I have an AK. Uh oh. Please don't try to take my AK Mr. President!! You couldn't even if you tried. I'll bury it in my backyard along with my AR's that I'll have to hide from Mr. Yee.

elSquid
07-25-2012, 11:26 PM
Truth.

And after his second term is over, and he's still not pushed for any gun control, I get to say I told you so to 99% of all CalGunners.

And we get to say "He was anti-gun, but had other priorities and spent his capital there".

http://web.archive.org/web/20091026171722/http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/index_campaign.php

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.


And Biden, well... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/17/joe-biden-gun-policy-discussion_n_837067.html)

Zero doubt in my mind that if Obama and Biden could get a new AWB passed with no political fallout, it'd be done tomorrow.

-- Michael

hornswaggled
07-26-2012, 3:56 AM
I'm no fan of BHO but OMG man come on! You might want to point out that he said right before that that he knows that the right of the 2A means we can have weapons and he is for that. He was doing just fine untill he said that stupid AK47 crap. I've been around here to long as i'm starting to think the guy isn't as anti gun as most here make him out to be.

He's a media whore and right now the media is up in arms about gun control so what did he do? he played to the people just like everyone else has. In his past four years the guy hasn't disarmed us at all and i'm starting to think he won't. If we want to ***** about something ***** about how many laws the CA government has taken from us in the past 2 years.

Although that AK47 comment did piss me off. less then 5% of all crimes in America are done with "AW", if they want to focus on gun crimes shouldn't they go after handguns? but hey if gun laws made sense they wouldn't make laws to stop law breakers.

Agreed. This whole "Obama has a secret gun control agenda" thing is starting to sound as far fetched as "Iraq has WMDs".

OleCuss
07-26-2012, 3:57 AM
I'm no fan of BHO but OMG man come on! . . . i'm starting to think the guy isn't as anti gun as most here make him out to be.

He's a media whore and right now the media is up in arms about gun control so what did he do? he played to the people just like everyone else has. In his past four years the guy hasn't disarmed us at all and i'm starting to think he won't. If we want to ***** about something ***** about how many laws the CA government has taken from us in the past 2 years.
.
.
.

I can understand where you are coming from, but I'd point out that Obama is being precisely as anti-RKBA as he thinks he can be and still be politically viable.

There is a reason why DiFi is so often the face of anti-RKBA at this time. She is one of the very few candidates this election cycle who can be openly anti-RKBA and still be nearly certain of being re-elected.

But anyone who would nominate Sotomayor and Kagan to SCOTUS is not someone who believes in the RKBA to any significant degree.

HowardW56
07-26-2012, 4:00 AM
He's just got a deal cut with the firearms manufacturers. Watch NCIS checks skyrocket even more than they already are in the wake of the Aurora shooting.

:iagree:

Jack L
07-26-2012, 5:32 AM
Agreed. This whole "Obama has a secret gun control agenda" thing is starting to sound as far fetched as "Iraq has WMDs".

What we may see at some point in the years to come is an effort to close gun show loopholes where no paperwork or e-checks are taking place. And maybe high cap mags ban too. Those are a few areas that even many members of the NRA agree on believe it or not. We who live in CA forget how open non registered sales are elsewhere. Until when and if that happens, conspiracy theories will flourish.

CDFingers
07-26-2012, 5:42 AM
There are a few things to pay attention to before we set our hair alight and run about aimlessly in circles.

First, recall that the NFA was passed in response to the Valentine's Day killings.
Second, recall that the House is controlled by republicans.

These two pieces of information should allow us to slow down and have a real discussion about this rather than boiling would-be opponents in recycled French fry oil.

Looking at the control of the House, gun owners should immediately understand that any calls for any Federal legislation will not pass the House. Since we know no gun law will pass the House, we can look at Fed level calls for AW bans, hi-cap mag bans, ammo taxes, and the rest as mere politics in an election year.

Show me I'm wrong before you jump up and down, blithering that Obama is gunna git yur gunz.

Now that that is over, folks have to understand that the real issue revolves around language in both Heller and McDonald regarding "reasonable regulations."

Since we know that criminals do not obey gun laws, any laws restricting possession of any gun is an infringement on our RKBA. Yes, we see a discrepancy between our rights being infringed and "reasonable restrictions." This discussion only can be had in the SCOTUS. As it stands now, most CA gun laws should be over turned after these two SCOTUS decisions, but we CA gun owners must wait until each and every law is challenged on the basis of those two decisions.

To me, the only reasonable regulation I can come up with that squares with the 2A language is offering training.

So, ease off the burning hair: no gun laws will be passed at the Fed level, though we'll see lots of calls for them. The calls are easy: constituents are placated, but no laws will get past the republican House.

CDFingers

ArcherDog
07-26-2012, 5:42 AM
I get a kick about how Mitt Romney and Barack Obama can say essentially the same thing to the press and nearly everyone here reads two different responses from them.

OleCuss
07-26-2012, 5:51 AM
Forget the rhetoric.

Remember who Obama nominated to the SCOTUS?

Remember who Obama's AG is?

Remember Obama telling Sarah Brady he is working for gun control under the radar?

Remember Obama's starting long gun purchase tracking in "border states"?


And remember that Obama routinely ignores the Constitution and the actual legislation which has been passed?

Whatever you and I may think of DOMA, he won't defend it in court.

He made recess appointments without the Senate being in recess.

He just gutted welfare reform.

We could go on, but you should be getting the point.

Relying on SCOTUS and a Republican House of Representatives to keep Obama in check just won't work.

davbog44
07-26-2012, 5:58 AM
Clearly, one of two things is going on here:

Either Obama is floating a trial balloon, sticking his toe in the water so to speak, to see if he might be able to re-introduce the failed Clinton era AWB (or something similar) to appeal to his base. Or ........

He is just trying to see to it that Eric Holder and ATF get exclusive North American distribution rights to AK style rifles.

highpowermatch
07-26-2012, 6:06 AM
I'm not sure Obama even knows which rifle our troops use.

Exactly, troops would laugh at the prospect of using what we have.

tankarian
07-26-2012, 6:19 AM
I know that a few folks here have calmed that the president isn't anti-gun.
In the wake of the Aurora shooting he has finally admitted that he wants to disarm us.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/07/obama-aks-belong-on-battlefield-not-streets-130141.html
"AK-47s... belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities"

What's Obama gonna do, eh? The Fast and Furious scheme he started in 2009 failed before achieving its goal of convincing people that American "assault" guns cause massacres here and abroad. It failed because of a handful of courageous ATF whistleblowers and two bloggers.
The next best thing that happened for Obama and his gun grabbing friends was the Aurora massacre. And they didn't even had to start it themselves, it just happened.
As Obama's best friend and adviser once said: never let a crisis go to waste. In particular one that cannot be tied to you and your Attorney General.
It makes me wonder if he really doesn't want to be re-elected.
I said it before, I'll say it again: Obama is not a pragmatist capable of adapting and changing his position like Bill Clinton was; Obama is a cunning ideologue raised and educated by leftist radicals like his grandfather, his own mother and communists like Bill Ayers and Frank Marshall Davis.
If you know anything about communists you should know that they are inflexible ideologues and trying to moderate or convince them of something they don't believe in is an exercise of futility. They will pretend to negotiate with you but all they do is actually lie in wait for the best opportunity. Communist ideologues will always follow their goals and push for action when the moment is right for them. This is why Obama will go through hell and high water to implement his agenda no matter the costs for himself and for the people around him.

Those who believe he isn't a gun-grabber are either liars or brain damaged. Obama is now waiting for the right moment to start a new AWB. He knows he cannot pass it now with a GOP Congress. But you need to be a clueless moron in order to say he won't do it if GOP loses the majority.

Curley Red
07-26-2012, 7:06 AM
I know that a few folks here have calmed that the president isn't anti-gun.

In the wake of the Aurora shooting he has finally admitted that he wants to disarm us.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/07/obama-aks-belong-on-battlefield-not-streets-130141.html

"AK-47s... belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities"



It makes me wonder if he really doesn't want to be re-elected.

Here is what Mittens had to say:

NBC News anchor Brian Williams pressed Romney about his tenure as Massachusetts governor, when the presumptive GOP nominee signed a bill that banned some assault weapons like the type Holmes is alleged to have used. At the time, Romney described such guns as "instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."

dantodd
07-26-2012, 7:17 AM
I get a kick about how Mitt Romney and Barack Obama can say essentially the same thing to the press and nearly everyone here reads two different responses from them.

If you have to choose between 2 anti-gun candidates how do you choose? You choose the one who is beholden to you and against whom you have leverage. Now, which candidate is that? Mitt didn't joi. The NRA for fun he did it because he knows that gun rights are a major issue and he doesn't want to be on the wrong side.

ddestruel
07-26-2012, 7:21 AM
Godwin's Law?

It is nothing of the sort.

Obama has actually signed several pro-2A pieces of legislation. We can argue what we like, but those are facts. Start from facts, not baseless comparisons.

To quote Jon Stewart: "You know who else is like Hitler? HITLER is like Hitler."

Jon stewart wouldnt know his head from a hole in the ground


Facts already exist
As does an IL senator voting record, statements and signed history. I dont see baseless comparisons i see a pattern of subtle and some far reaching attackes, votes and statements agaisnt the 2nd ammendment

1996 Senator Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban, manufacturing and possession of hand guns
Jul 2, 1998 Senator Obama supported a Ban on the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
March 2004, the Illinois Senate passed Senate Bill 2165 he voted against it multiple times
Oct 21, 2004 "Let’s be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. ...........I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban."
Jul 29, 2005 Voted NO Bill S 397 on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers
Jul 29, 2005 S.Amdt. 1615 Voted to classify all Full Metal Jacket ammo in the following calibers as armor-piercing Ban military surplus ammo
July 15, 2007 stated the government needs to permanently reinstate an "assault weapons" ban.
Jan 15, 2008 “... I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry............“
April 11th 2008: "Bittergate"
Apr 16, 2008 "Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws"
May 25th 2011 Obama said to Sarah Brady We're Working on Gun Control 'Under the Radar' (the source of many conspiracy therorys as to what he was meaning)
July 25th 2012 "............AK-47s belong in the hands of soldiers, not in the hands of criminals -- that they belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities,"


Source for more detailed links and quotes to some of thsoe dates and dfull statements
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm



March 26th 2012 President Obama: "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

Do we really want to find out what kind of Flexibility he'll have with the 2nd amendment when the shackles of re-election are off?

I'll take a Restrained Govenor Romney vs an unrestrained President Obama term #2



....

MaHoTex
07-26-2012, 7:23 AM
This story is front page on Faux Noobs today...

I think I will go pick up 2 more lowers today.

Skidmark
07-26-2012, 7:30 AM
Those who believe he isn't a gun-grabber are either liars or brain damaged. Obama is now waiting for the right moment to start a new AWB. He knows he cannot pass it now with a GOP Congress. But you need to be a clueless moron in order to say he won't do it if GOP loses the majority.

mF-jdo7DZRw

Untamed1972
07-26-2012, 7:51 AM
I heard a quote from that speech, and he said: "AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers, not the hands of criminals."

He left no middle ground with the implication being that anyone who has an AK47 who is not a soldier (or agent of the state) is a criminal. Again just proving what we've always known. The liberal, leftist, communist, socialist POV is guns only belong in the hands of state agents, anyone else with a gun is a criminal.....period!

CessnaDriver
07-26-2012, 7:57 AM
We know how this guy rolls.
He's not stupid, he won't be overt and admit it in your face.
He knows it can cost him votes. He will lie.

Remember what Obama was willing to do, how far he was willing to go....accessory to murder! and now do everything in his power to hide it from the American people.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii44/CessnaDriver/gunwalker-cartoon-from-blood-to-obama.png

CessnaDriver
07-26-2012, 8:03 AM
I heard a quote from that speech, and he said: "AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers, not the hands of criminals."

He left no middle ground with the implication being that anyone who has an AK47 who is not a soldier is a criminal. Again just proving what we've always known. The liberal, leftist, communist, socialist POV is guns only belong in the hands of state agents, anyone else with a gun is a criminal.....period!



Exactly! He is attempting to set the narrative using his weasel words as usual.

Of course, his life and his familys will be protected for life by people armed I'm sure at times with actual assualt rifles, something we can never posesses.

Good for me but not for thee.

mag360
07-26-2012, 8:21 AM
Ddestruel you left out border state registration

DTatum
07-26-2012, 8:21 AM
Wow you people are twits ... You obviously missed Mitt's speech where he flat out preached for gun control...

Be anti Obama all you want but geta clue and be honest... Between the two speeches yesterday Obama's was more balanced. Mitt sounded like the scared anti-gun zealot.

firelt
07-26-2012, 8:27 AM
Whether POTUS has a personal agenda for or against guns is not relevant. He's a liberal democrat that has to play to his base, and that's other liberal dems. I am not surprised by his comments, I knew as soon as I heard about the shootings in CO (as I'm sure most of you did) that the AWB/Anti-gunners would be out in force as soon as they got done with all the false sympathy, photo ops and hand wringing. Politically I do not think this will go anyplace right now because it's too hot an issue for an election year.
In any case, I have made a personal decision. I will fight politically with my vote against any attempt to further restrict my rights to own firearms. I will also refuse to surrender my arms if they ever come for them, regardless of the consequences.

IVC
07-26-2012, 8:39 AM
I get a kick about how Mitt Romney and Barack Obama can say essentially the same thing to the press and nearly everyone here reads two different responses from them.

Context is everything.

Obama talks about controlling spending, fiscal responsibility and cutting the deficit in half. Romney does too. Context provides who you believe.

adampolo13
07-26-2012, 8:41 AM
If we look at the facts, I'm not talking about what Obama and Mitt have said recently. I'm talking about what they have done, i.e. votes made and laws past they are both dangerous as far as it goes with 2A. It sucks that we have to choose between the lesser of two evils, I actually am pretty pissed. But taking into consideration the fact that Mitt has joined the NRA I feel just a little bit better about him as president esp. considering all the other things that the president will face next term. I also have to consider the fact that if Mitt gets elected he probably wont do anything his first term either, afterall the job of a the POTUS in his first four years is to get re-elected right. (look at obama, more days actively campaining than any other POTUS in history)

Further more, while the gun control debate has become a very popular with the media following the CO shooting, the general public (given recent data) suggests that support for additional gun control has lost ground. I truly feel that there will not be enough support for additional laws at the Federal level and any attempts to pass laws on state levels will be shot down by SCOTUS.

Let's just hope God moves the American people to vote for the right person, whoever that may be.

morfeeis
07-26-2012, 8:43 AM
In any case, I have made a personal decision. I will fight politically with my vote against any attempt to further restrict my rights to own firearms. I will also refuse to surrender my arms if they ever come for them, regardless of the consequences.

If i didn't know they were watching i'd be right with you, to bad all my guns sank in that lake......

POLICESTATE
07-26-2012, 8:43 AM
I think it's pretty clear that both of the mainstream party candidates suck. They are so alike in their suck factor that there is no lesser evil. What I mean by that is that when you weigh their pros and cons the net result is about the same either way.

I'm sure I would be a better president than either of them. And so my vote this year, not that is counts for squat in this state anymore, is going to be either:

1. Write in my own name. Because **** it, it's who I feel would be best for president of this country.

2. Write in Cthulhu because I like the campaign slogans "No More Years" and "Why settle for the lesser evil?" and because I just don't see the point anymore.

Maybe I'll just flip a quarter and let fate decide.

It's not going to make much difference at this point, we've kicked the can down the road too long and ran out of road already. Now we're kicking it beyond the road, at some point even Wily Coyote realized he had run out into thin air. And we all know what happens next.

There is a slim chance I may vote for Romney only because he would be better than Obama if we get sucked into another war. But only slightly, he would still suck at it, just like all the presidents since Truman.

Skidmark
07-26-2012, 8:45 AM
Let's just hope God moves the American people to vote for the right person, whoever that may be.

Let's keep religion out of politics, and out of government.

adampolo13
07-26-2012, 8:47 AM
Let's keep religion out of politics, and out of government.

I hope God moves YOU too!

OleCuss
07-26-2012, 8:58 AM
This is an amazing thread.

People confident that Obama will not damage our RKBA when he has clearly done so already and has every intention of doing so in the future.

There are people who would actually consider Romney to be in the same boat? The Massachusetts gun owners weren't thrilled with Romney, but they apparently believe he was a net asset in their fight for the RKBA.

Romney will be accountable to the Republican gun owners and will violate the RKBA at great peril while Obama has proven accountable only to the extreme left of his party and is clearly quite willing to ignore the congress and the courts.

Vote for Romney like your freedom depends on it - it does.


And no, I'm never going to be a fan of Romney. But compared to Obama's policies - Romney's policies are a relative delight!

And my thanks to ddstruel for that very enlightening post.

jonzer77
07-26-2012, 9:09 AM
This is an amazing thread.

People confident that Obama will not damage our RKBA when he has clearly done so already and has every intention of doing so in the future.

There are people who would actually consider Romney to be in the same boat? The Massachusetts gun owners weren't thrilled with Romney, but they apparently believe he was a net asset in their fight for the RKBA.

Romney will be accountable to the Republican gun owners and will violate the RKBA at great peril while Obama has proven accountable only to the extreme left of his party and is clearly quite willing to ignore the congress and the courts.

Vote for Romney like your freedom depends on it - it does.


And no, I'm never going to be a fan of Romney. But compared to Obama's policies - Romney's policies are a relative delight!

And my thanks to ddstruel for that very enlightening post.

You have the usual Obama apologists that think their messiah can do no wrong.

POLICESTATE
07-26-2012, 9:24 AM
sXkLs-Xesb4

vantec08
07-26-2012, 9:32 AM
This is an amazing thread.

People confident that Obama will not damage our RKBA when he has clearly done so already and has every intention of doing so in the future.

There are people who would actually consider Romney to be in the same boat? The Massachusetts gun owners weren't thrilled with Romney, but they apparently believe he was a net asset in their fight for the RKBA.

Romney will be accountable to the Republican gun owners and will violate the RKBA at great peril while Obama has proven accountable only to the extreme left of his party and is clearly quite willing to ignore the congress and the courts.

Vote for Romney like your freedom depends on it - it does.


And no, I'm never going to be a fan of Romney. But compared to Obama's policies - Romney's policies are a relative delight!

And my thanks to ddstruel for that very enlightening post.


I have no clue who will win an election or by how much. In fact, there is a a lot more I dont know in general than do. The ONE thing I know for certain, is that o.bammy is not from us - not one of us, and if re-elected will see it as a "mandate" to do dam well what he pleases, however he pleases - congress be damned. 1st term is cautious, 2nd always becomes more brazen.

scott2
07-26-2012, 10:08 AM
"I believe the majority of gun owners would agree that we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons; that we should check someone's criminal record before they can check out a gun seller; that a mentally unbalanced individual should not be able to get his hands on a gun so easily," he said. "These steps shouldn't be controversial. They should be common sense."

Slight of hand, every thing he said is currently Law. Nothing to see here.

Meplat1
07-26-2012, 10:15 AM
Agreed. This whole "Obama has a secret gun control agenda" thing is starting to sound as far fetched as "Iraq has WMDs".

Iraq Had WMDs, they are now in Syria and we are having to worry about them all over again.

Meplat1
07-26-2012, 10:27 AM
Show me I'm wrong before you jump up and down, blithering that Obama is gunna git yur gunz.



He would if he could. He just can't right now.

Meplat1
07-26-2012, 10:40 AM
What's Obama gonna do, eh? The Fast and Furious scheme he started in 2009 failed before achieving its goal of convincing people that American "assault" guns cause massacres here and abroad. It failed because of a handful of courageous ATF whistleblowers and two bloggers.
The next best thing that happened for Obama and his gun grabbing friends was the Aurora massacre. And they didn't even had to start it themselves, it just happened.
As Obama's best friend and adviser once said: never let a crisis go to waste. In particular one that cannot be tied to you and your Attorney General.

I said it before, I'll say it again: Obama is not a pragmatist capable of adapting and changing his position like Bill Clinton was; Obama is a cunning ideologue raised and educated by leftist radicals like his grandfather, his own mother and communists like Bill Ayers and Frank Marshall Davis.
If you know anything about communists you should know that they are inflexible ideologues and trying to moderate or convince them of something they don't believe in is an exercise of futility. They will pretend to negotiate with you but all they do is actually lie in wait for the best opportunity. Communist ideologues will always follow their goals and push for action when the moment is right for them. This is why Obama will go through hell and high water to implement his agenda no matter the costs for himself and for the people around him.

Those who believe he isn't a gun-grabber are either liars or brain damaged. Obama is now waiting for the right moment to start a new AWB. He knows he cannot pass it now with a GOP Congress. But you need to be a clueless moron in order to say he won't do it if GOP loses the majority.

Well said! Read the mans book!

odysseus
07-26-2012, 10:45 AM
Finally exposing???

Everyone does know he sat on the board for years in Illinois on the Joyce Foundation dolling out large sums of cash to anti-gun lobbies? What we need to rehash this? Obama is not friendly to the RKBA! Never has been! The DNC is only covert about it because they don't want to stir up the silent majority on the issue.

5-4.5-4.

Ohh.. and cue the "Romeny is no betta" crowd. Well so what does that mean? Obama is a proven worker against RKBA's... or maybe like Kerry - Shotguns for Hunters only.

raycm2
07-26-2012, 10:53 AM
Agreed. This whole "Obama has a secret gun control agenda" thing is starting to sound as far fetched as "Iraq has WMDs".
... conspiracy theories will flourish.
What boggles my mind is how an entire nation of so-called intelligent people can be tricked into forgetting the uncontested fact that Iraq DID HAVE WMDs (chemical) and Saddam USED THEM against the Kurds in the North for three years that I know of (1986-89). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

Stop trying to force tinfoil hats on those who DO remember. :mad:

SilverTauron
07-26-2012, 11:00 AM
Considering Obama put AK47s in the hands of Mexican soldiers turned criminals, he finally discussed a topic he's got direct experience in.

Good news for us is that F&F failed, and so will any attempt at advancing an Assault Weapons Ban under the current legislative circumstances. Bill Clinton had to jump through hoops to get the first one passed, back in the dark ages when "shall issue" CCW meant someone graduated a police academy. Today any promotion of such a plan would be political suicide in an election year.

Should the composition of the legislature change under a second Obama term however, things may not be so rosy.

OleCuss
07-26-2012, 11:11 AM
I know it is kind of off-topic in a way, but it is responsive to those who think we are talking conspiracy theory. . .

Our troops actually did find some chemical weapons after/during our invasion. The relatively small number was consistent with reports that nearly all had been moved to Syria (and maybe Lebanon) shortly prior to our invasion.

A really odd bit of info which (if true) would explain why Saddam wanted nothing to do with WMDs in Iraq when we invaded?

I've had a report from a mostly reliable source that in the first Iraq war the Iraqis actually did make limited use of chemical weapons (that part is corroborated by two other sources). In response we reportedly used two tactical nukes fired from artillery using RAPT. If the report of our nuclear response is true (there are some fairly good reasons to doubt its validity), then Saddam would have the idea that having chemical warfare agents around for his commanders to use against our invasion just might not be a good idea.

vincewarde
07-26-2012, 11:13 AM
Let's keep religion out of politics, and out of government.

Absolutely - but many of us who are people of faith and as such see our responsibility to vote for the best person in that light.

Does that mean that we are out to create a theocracy? Absolutely not. Does this mean that we will only vote for people of our faith? No way. It also does not mean that we want to use the government to favor our faith over any other faith or no faith.

It simply means that we take our responsibility as citizens seriously, and that we approach it in the way we do any other serious choice in our lives: Prayerfully.

That said, remember that Luther famously said that he would rather be ruled by a competent Muslim than by a corrupt and/or incompetent Christian. Over 250 years before our Constitution was ratified, the leader of the Reformation opposed a religious test for office holders.

So, I am simply appealing for a little tolerance when we speak from the heart.

Thanks!

yellowfin
07-26-2012, 11:20 AM
First, recall that the NFA was passed in response to the Valentine's Day killings.False. That was the excuse given as cover but not the reason.

vincewarde
07-26-2012, 11:26 AM
What boggles my mind is how an entire nation of so-called intelligent people can be tricked into forgetting the uncontested fact that Iraq DID HAVE WMDs (chemical) and Saddam USED THEM against the Kurds in the North for three years that I know of (1986-89). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

Stop trying to force tinfoil hats on those who DO remember. :mad:

Yes, and in addition we discovered over 500 small caches over both mustard gas and binary nerve agents. He definitely did not have the large caches necessary to use them effectively on a battlefield (as the Bush administration thought) but he did have enough to supply any terrorist group he chose to equip with enough for several attacks. Both the media and the military were so focused on huge stashes that by the time the military realized what Saddam actually had and what he could have done with it, the "there were no WMDs" narrative was firmly established.

Furthermore, at the time of the invasion there were persistent reports that Saddam had sent large amounts of chemical agents to Syria. Now, guess what Syria has admitted they have? Chemical weapons, of course.

There is no way that Israel would ever tolerate production facilities in Syria (remember what they did to their reactor?). They didn't produce these weapons themselves - so who supplied them?

SoCalXD
07-26-2012, 11:37 AM
However; if you think the second amendment covers those weapons necessary to defend yourself against direct physical threat by "bad guys" and a tyrannical government then the idea that Pres. Obama might go after "Assault Weapons" and handguns should scare you terribly.

>>> THIS! <<<

Scott Connors
07-26-2012, 11:37 AM
If i didn't know they were watching i'd be right with you, to bad all my guns sank in that lake......

We really need to organize a boating safety class...:D

Scott Connors
07-26-2012, 11:42 AM
False. That was the excuse given as cover but not the reason.

St. Valentine's Day Massacre was 1929. NFA was supposedly in response to killing of two federal agents in the Kansas City Massacre, but many (including myself) believe the real reason was to keep such firearms out of the hands of labor unions and strikers (the companies already had them; my hometown in PA, Aliquippa, had mounts for Browning 1917s in the gatehouse at the J&L Steel Works. (I saw them when I was a kid.)

vincewarde
07-26-2012, 11:48 AM
There can be no question that Obama is anti-gun. In fact there are reliable reports that in the past he stated that no one except the police and military should be allowed to have guns of any kind.

That said, it is going to be exceedingly difficult for him to move any legislation through Congress. First, he has not demonstrated a great deal of skill at moving ANY legislation forward. Second, even if the Dems take both houses, gun control is as much of a "3rd rail" as Social Security. Remember what happened when Holder simply suggested that the AWB needed to be reinstated? 60 Democratic House members signed a letter telling him it would be DOA. Add to this the fact that any gun control debate will draw lots of attention to Fast and Furious and I would be very surprised if they even try.

The greatest danger Obama presents in a second term is the ability to shape SCOTUS. So far, he has only been able to replace a liberal justice with another liberal justice. Chances are that if he gets another term, he will be able to replace one of the center or right wing Justices - tipping the court sharply to the left for decades. If that happens, you can kiss Heller/McDonald good by.........

Curley Red
07-26-2012, 11:59 AM
This is an amazing thread.

People confident that Obama will not damage our RKBA when he has clearly done so already and has every intention of doing so in the future.

Actually under Obama gun control has slackened and he even received an "F" from the Brady group.


Also:
White House: Obama not seeking new gun laws

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-obama-not-seeking-gun-laws-173426783.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — Even as the issue of guns shifts to the forefront of the presidential campaign, the White House and the Senate's top Democrat made it clear Thursday that new gun legislation will not be on the political agenda this year. Instead, President Barack Obama intends to focus on other ways to combat gun violence — a position not unlike that of his rival, Mitt Romney.

See full story at link above.

odysseus
07-26-2012, 12:03 PM
Actually under Obama gun control has slackened and he even received an "F" from the Brady group.

Subterfuge. What they are actually doing is making a political headliner point about the House of Reps. It is just for news media print, so yeah give Obama a "F" to get some "news" out, however it's only because the Brady's can't get anything pass the House anyway to his desk. If the House did with this Senate of DNC's in it, he would sign it and, LOW AND BEHOLD Obama would get an "A".

Obama is friends with the Brady group leadership. He has been personally involved with sending them much money into their accounts.

hornswaggled
07-26-2012, 12:08 PM
What boggles my mind is how an entire nation of so-called intelligent people can be tricked into forgetting the uncontested fact that Iraq DID HAVE WMDs (chemical) and Saddam USED THEM against the Kurds in the North for three years that I know of (1986-89). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

Stop trying to force tinfoil hats on those who DO remember. :mad:

Colin Powell pushed the UN to accept the Iraq invasion based on claims extracted during enhanced interrogation of an Al Queda trainer that Saddam and Al Queda were working to develop WMDs. This was later proven to be false, and when they went back to the Al Queda operative as asked why he lied, his reply was essentially, "Because you were torturing me and I wanted it to stop." These are facts. Not to throw off the topic of the discussion.

OleCuss
07-26-2012, 12:27 PM
Actually under Obama gun control has slackened and he even received an "F" from the Brady group.


Also:
White House: Obama not seeking new gun laws

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-obama-not-seeking-gun-laws-173426783.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — Even as the issue of guns shifts to the forefront of the presidential campaign, the White House and the Senate's top Democrat made it clear Thursday that new gun legislation will not be on the political agenda this year. Instead, President Barack Obama intends to focus on other ways to combat gun violence — a position not unlike that of his rival, Mitt Romney.

See full story at link above.

Fascinating. . . And want to make any guess at all as to whether the Brady bunch will be voting for Obama or for Romney? Pretty sure it won't be Romney.

And on the issue of new gun legislation this year? So far as I can tell, that means they aren't going to pass National Reciprocity - which is the only major pending gun legislation at this time.

Somehow I don't get the impression that this tells us Obama will be even marginally acceptable in 2013 or later. This Acknowledging opposition in Congress to new limits, Carney said Obama will work to enhance existing gun laws. from the article you cited shouldn't make you feel too comfortable with Obama either. Also, his renewed support for the BSAR shouldn't really endear him to you either.

Left Coast Conservative
07-26-2012, 12:29 PM
In the wake of the Aurora shooting he has finally admitted that he wants to disarm us.

He may indeed WANT to disarm us, at least insofar to ban and confiscate certain classes of weapons, but given Heller, McDonald, and current litigation, could the AWB pass constitutional muster today, even assuming that it could be passed in both houses of Congress?

Does a law that would ban an AR-15, but not a Ruger Mini-14 make sense?

IVC
07-26-2012, 12:35 PM
Does a law that would ban an AR-15, but not a Ruger Mini-14 make sense?

Most gun laws don't make sense already. I wouldn't use "doesn't make sense" as a strong deterrent to the determined legislators (see Leland Yee).

Agree with the rest of the post...

ja308
07-26-2012, 12:36 PM
A politician giving a speech in which he tries to placate his idiot base is pushing an agenda? No. Not at all.

And he's done nothing to push any gun control agenda in his first term. Show me any evidence of that. The only thing he did do was sign a bill giving us carry in the National Parks.


His two anti gun SC nominee's Sotomayer -the wise laina , and Kagan.
His AG eric holder who is the most anti gun ag in US history.
Fast and furious was not a program to promote RKBA !

We could increase this list of anti gun appointee's with every appointment .

Proud to identify you as a californian :D

Wiz-of-Awd
07-26-2012, 12:42 PM
I think many/most of the gun laws we see today aren't necessarily meant to make sense, but simply appease the people asking for "something to be done."

Quite a few law makers I'm sure are fully aware of the inadequacy of their bills and such, but are just too interested in being able to show the voters that they did something.

A.W.D.

yellowfin
07-26-2012, 12:43 PM
He may indeed WANT to disarm us, at least insofar to ban and confiscate certain classes of weapons, but given Heller, McDonald, and current litigation, could the AWB pass constitutional muster today, even assuming that it could be passed in both houses of Congress?The problem is that they can pass laws in a couple of days but it takes a couple of years to get them struck down while the law stands in effect in the meantime. They face no actual penalty or disincentive for trying everything they can.
Does a law that would ban an AR-15, but not a Ruger Mini-14 make sense?It doesn't have to make sense, nor is it intended to. It's intended to harass law abiding gun owners, take a chunk out of legal availability of good firearms, and deter new gun ownership by adding more maze to navigate. "Death by a thousand cuts" it's been called.

Bruceisontarget
07-26-2012, 1:17 PM
The best thing that American gun owners could do this November is to set the Democrat party on fire and hold the wobbly Republicans feet to the flames. Make no mistake, if the Dims continue to hold the Senate and BO is re-elected, the Supreme Court will shift further to the left. That means strict draconian gun control will be likely ruled as compliant with the 2A.

HowardW56
07-26-2012, 1:25 PM
Actually under Obama gun control has slackened and he even received an "F" from the Brady group.


Also:
White House: Obama not seeking new gun laws

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-obama-not-seeking-gun-laws-173426783.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — Even as the issue of guns shifts to the forefront of the presidential campaign, the White House and the Senate's top Democrat made it clear Thursday that new gun legislation will not be on the political agenda this year. Instead, President Barack Obama intends to focus on other ways to combat gun violence — a position not unlike that of his rival, Mitt Romney.

See full story at link above.

Hey Curley, can I interest you in a bridge?

HowardW56
07-26-2012, 1:25 PM
The best thing that American gun owners could do this November is to set the Democrat party on fire and hold the wobbly Republicans feet to the flames. Make no mistake, if the Dims continue to hold the Senate and BO is re-elected, the Supreme Court will shift further to the left. That means strict draconian gun control will be likely ruled as compliant with the 2A.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

tankarian
07-26-2012, 1:56 PM
mF-jdo7DZRw

Not really sure what is the point you are trying to make with that video.

mag360
07-26-2012, 2:10 PM
Look at how easy you can get a non bullet buttoned standard cap mag AR in Mass then tell me how bad Mitt was.


Not that bad eh?

morfeeis
07-26-2012, 2:17 PM
Let's keep religion out of politics, and out of government.
You better keep it in, after that whole "i support Gay marriage thing" thats the main reason i dislike BHO.

Curley Red
07-26-2012, 2:38 PM
Hey Curley, can I interest you in a bridge?

That's right, I forgot. If it is anything good about Obama and guns it must be fake. How silly of me. I forgot it is the right that is only for gun rights and never do anything to take away our rights. Sorry for posting an inaccurate story.

So as president, exactly what has Obama done to our gun rights? What new laws has he signed as president that took away our gun rights?

berto
07-26-2012, 2:42 PM
Actually under Obama gun control has slackened and he even received an "F" from the Brady group.


Also:
White House: Obama not seeking new gun laws

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-obama-not-seeking-gun-laws-173426783.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — Even as the issue of guns shifts to the forefront of the presidential campaign, the White House and the Senate's top Democrat made it clear Thursday that new gun legislation will not be on the political agenda this year. Instead, President Barack Obama intends to focus on other ways to combat gun violence — a position not unlike that of his rival, Mitt Romney.

See full story at link above.

Right. No push this year because he's trying to get reelected and pushing an AWB or other nonsense is political suicide. The true colors will come out in 2013 or 2015 depending on the makeup of congress. Chess not checkers regardless of what one thinks of Obama's intellect.

Steyr_223
07-26-2012, 2:45 PM
I wonder what the NRA and the TEA party folks think about Scott Brown getting money fron NYC mayor Bloomberg.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/27/nyregion/bloomberg-gives-support-to-senator-scott-brown.html

Mr. Bloomberg has long been a supporter of more restrictive gun laws, and founded, along with Mayor Thomas M. Menino of Boston, the group Mayors Against Illegal Guns. Mr. Bloomberg has been emphasizing the need for gun control in the wake of the mass shooting last week in Aurora, Colo.

Mr. Brown has generally received high ratings from gun rights organizations and has not pushed for renewing a federal assault-weapons ban or for tightening restrictions on gun shows. But Mr. Loeser said the mayor had been won over by the senator’s “tough stand” opposing a measure that would have required states to honor concealed-weapons permits issued by other states.

“The biggest reason the mayor is supporting Senator Brown is the senator’s help on one of our biggest gun issues: opposing concealed-carry reciprocity that would let people with gun permits from rural states like Arkansas and Kentucky carry hidden handguns in New York City,” Mr. Loeser said.

The fund-raiser, on Aug. 15, was first reported by Politico.

Mr. Brown’s spokeswoman, Alleigh Marré, welcomed Mr. Bloomberg’s support.

“Mayor Bloomberg is a true independent who always puts progress over politics,” Ms. Marré said. “That’s Scott Brown’s philosophy as well, and he is honored to have the mayor’s support.”

ArcherDog
07-26-2012, 2:53 PM
If you have to choose between 2 anti-gun candidates how do you choose? You choose the one who is beholden to you and against whom you have leverage. Now, which candidate is that? Mitt didn't joi. The NRA for fun he did it because he knows that gun rights are a major issue and he doesn't want to be on the wrong side.

You honestly believe Mitt's gestures towards the NRA aren't 100% politically motivated? Come on!

How is Mitt's record for appointing pro-2A judges to the bench in the Mass. Supreme Court?

POLICESTATE
07-26-2012, 2:55 PM
“Mayor Bloomberg is a true independent who always puts progress over politics,” Ms. Marré said. “That’s Scott Brown’s philosophy as well, and he is honored to have the mayor’s support.”

Now there is a scary thought.

jonzer77
07-26-2012, 2:56 PM
That's right, I forgot. If it is anything good about Obama and guns it must be fake. How silly of me. I forgot it is the right that is only for gun rights and never do anything to take away our rights. Sorry for posting an inaccurate story.

So as president, exactly what has Obama done to our gun rights? What new laws has he signed as president that took away our gun rights?

It's really simple but I can see how it may hard for you to comprehend. Obama remembers 1994 and 2000 and he is smart enough to not try anything in his first term.

mag360
07-26-2012, 3:35 PM
Curley red-

Border state registration
His appointed atf leaders keep trying to ban shotguns like the saiga 12 through non sporting import bans.

One of his appointed justices thinks heller should be revisited and overturned.

He wants another AWB but he took it off his campaign page but you can still find it through archive.org.

His AG holder is an anti gun wacko and has called for a new AWB multiple times.

His secretary of state keeps trying to enact gun registration and import bans through the UN treaty.

Need i continue?

desertjosh
07-26-2012, 3:53 PM
The best thing that American gun owners could do this November is to set the Democrat party on fire and hold the wobbly Republicans feet to the flames. Make no mistake, if the Dims continue to hold the Senate and BO is re-elected, the Supreme Court will shift further to the left. That means strict draconian gun control will be likely ruled as compliant with the 2A.

VERY well said and I concur wholeheartedly!

swat
07-26-2012, 3:54 PM
Mitt Romney on Gun Control:

Gun control

During his 2002 gubernatorial campaign, Romney had been a supporter of the federal assault weapons ban, and had also said he believed "in the rights of those who hunt to responsibly own and use firearms."[92] On July 1, 2004, Romney signed a permanent state ban on assault weapons, saying at the signing ceremony for the new law, "Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts. These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."[93] The law extended a temporary measure that had been in effect since 1998 and covered weapons such as the AK-47, Uzi, and MAC-10.[93] The same law also modified some other aspects of general firearms licensing regulations.[93

mag360
07-26-2012, 3:55 PM
Hey swat tell me what its like to buy a fully functional AR in Mass.

Bucc
07-26-2012, 4:28 PM
I would caution everyone who has been lulled by Obama's lack of direct action on gun control so far that the scorpion waited to sting the frog until after they were half way across the river.

Wherryj
07-26-2012, 4:56 PM
I certainly hope that the President will use this as an excuse to push his gun-control desires. The polls are a little too close for my liking at the moment. The second amendment is just the issue to get those Obama support numbers to nose-dive.

CBruce
07-26-2012, 5:15 PM
I know that a few folks here have calmed that the president isn't anti-gun.

In the wake of the Aurora shooting he has finally admitted that he wants to disarm us.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/07/obama-aks-belong-on-battlefield-not-streets-130141.html

"AK-47s... belong on the battlefield of war, not on the streets of our cities"



It makes me wonder if he really doesn't want to be re-elected.

I've never believed that Obama wasn't anti-gun, just that it wasn't a high-priority on his agenda. I'm still not convinced this is a high-priority issue for his administration. He seems determined to step lightly around this issue when it would be very easy for him run with this as a platform and take attention away from the economy, defecit, wars, etc. It could all be an elaborate ruse, but to what effect? If he's going to attempt gun-control, why wouldn't he be campaigning on that issue. Lord knows the support for it is there right now. Might not be there come Novemember, but right now he'd win a lot of support on it.

On the other hand, I do know that Romney is for gun-control, but as far as I'm concerned Romeny has no agenda other than deregulation and cutting taxes for the wealthy/corporations. To that end, he'll say or do anything to get elected so I wouldn't expect him to push for new gun-control laws.

CBruce
07-26-2012, 5:26 PM
I don't see any AK-47's on the streets and didn't know we had them since what we have are NON-assault rifle copies of them. How did the AK get so much attention lately anyway? Didn't the shooter use an AR? (not saying to ban those either since I enjoy them).

Anti-gun POV:
The AK-47 is the most even rifle ever invented. The russians used AKs, the Taliban and Al Queda use AKs, Somolia pirates use AKs. Hitler may have had an AK.

No one wants AK-47s in the hands of criminals on the street.

dantodd
07-26-2012, 5:27 PM
You honestly believe Mitt's gestures towards the NRA aren't 100% politically motivated? Come on!

How is Mitt's record for appointing pro-2A judges to the bench in the Mass. Supreme Court?

Of course it is politically motivated. That's the point, he must appease gun owners to be effective, he must work with his party in both houses to be effective.... So you really think he will not sign, for example, national reciprocity if he plans on getti g anything through congress?

adampolo13
07-26-2012, 5:31 PM
Absolutely - but many of us who are people of faith and as such see our responsibility to vote for the best person in that light.

Does that mean that we are out to create a theocracy? Absolutely not. Does this mean that we will only vote for people of our faith? No way. It also does not mean that we want to use the government to favor our faith over any other faith or no faith.

It simply means that we take our responsibility as citizens seriously, and that we approach it in the way we do any other serious choice in our lives: Prayerfully.

That said, remember that Luther famously said that he would rather be ruled by a competent Muslim than by a corrupt and/or incompetent Christian. Over 250 years before our Constitution was ratified, the leader of the Reformation opposed a religious test for office holders.

So, I am simply appealing for a little tolerance when we speak from the heart.

Thanks!

Thank you for the words describing how I feel!

RRangel
07-26-2012, 5:32 PM
Or you could vote for the "other guy", you know... the one whom signed a AWB for MA.

OR.....

Are you suggesting that Obama is a good choice for the Second Amendment? If so you lose all credibility. Once again Mitt Romney did not sign the Massachusetts Gun Control Act. That was done in 1998 by his predecessor. There is no sunset clause in Massachusett's gun ban either.

He signed a needed reform law in 2004. This is according to Massachusett's Gun Owner's Action League (http://www.goal.org/newspages/romney.html) and the NRA-ILA (http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2004/6/massachusetts-firearms-reform-bill-se.aspx).

Since I have provided links there's no excuse for you to spread falsehood.

Ladies and gentlemen of calguns. Note that the people who are making claims about Romney are Obama supporters.

Trolls, please realize that I never get tired of refuting you.

RRangel
07-26-2012, 6:02 PM
Dantodd, if you look at the history of the man, to the initiated he already exposed his gun control agenda. It's hard to miss. From his political affiliations and days as a senator, when he was a chairman of the anti-gun Joyce Foundation, to his appointments and policies as president.

timdps
07-26-2012, 6:44 PM
Clearly, one of two things is going on here:

Either Obama is floating a trial balloon, sticking his toe in the water so to speak, to see if he might be able to re-introduce the failed Clinton era AWB (or something similar) to appeal to his base. Or ........


Sounds like pretty much a trail balloon (or sticking his nose under the tent...).

MUKAK
07-26-2012, 6:52 PM
mF-jdo7DZRw

ROMNEY dont line up with NRA but he pays for a life time membership... NICE


i rather have Obama than romney anyday......

timdps
07-26-2012, 6:57 PM
And he's done nothing to push any gun control agenda in his first term. Show me any evidence of that. The only thing he did do was sign a bill giving us carry in the National Parks.

No overt action, but plenty of covert "under the radar" action: Fast and Furious.

tim

tkjr
07-26-2012, 7:34 PM
The best thing that American gun owners could do this November is to set the Democrat party on fire and hold the wobbly Republicans feet to the flames. Make no mistake, if the Dims continue to hold the Senate and BO is re-elected, the Supreme Court will shift further to the left. That means strict draconian gun control will be likely ruled as compliant with the 2A.


Exactly...People overlook that Obama has done as much as he can without outright attacking the 2A. Eric Holder, Fast and Furious, ATF regulations, anti 2A Supreme court justices... Romney might not be a strong supporter of gun rights, but he would be held accountable by the base of his part to not implement any more gun laws.

ArcherDog
07-26-2012, 7:52 PM
Of course it is politically motivated. That's the point, he must appease gun owners to be effective, he must work with his party in both houses to be effective.... So you really think he will not sign, for example, national reciprocity if he plans on getti g anything through congress?

Problem with Mitt is that he has no scruples. Maybe it's in his best interest to sign national reciprocity and maybe it will be in his best interest to renew the AWB. Based on his political history, both are equally likely.

No overt action, but plenty of covert "under the radar" action: Fast and Furious.


You mean that ATF program that started in 2006 and was ended in early 2011? That "Obama" program? :rolleyes:

jonzer77
07-26-2012, 7:58 PM
Problem with Mitt is that he has no scruples. Maybe it's in his best interest to sign national reciprocity and maybe it will be in his best interest to renew the AWB. Based on his political history, both are equally likely.



You mean that ATF program that started in 2006 and was ended in early 2011? That "Obama" program? :rolleyes:

You mean the one that started with tracking and was deemed a failure so Obama tried it again without any sort of tracking? Yeah that one.

erik_26
07-26-2012, 8:07 PM
The general public is too stupid.

They will think with emotion not with logic and reason.

Most need a celebrity to tell them what to think and who to vote for.

Guns will become a thing of the past like plastic grocery bags, and happy meal toys. After all Father Government knows best.

KWB977
07-26-2012, 8:18 PM
I'm no fan of BHO but OMG man come on! You might want to point out that he said right before that that he knows that the right of the 2A means we can have weapons and he is for that. He was doing just fine untill he said that stupid AK47 crap. I've been around here to long as i'm starting to think the guy isn't as anti gun as most here make him out to be.

He's a media whore and right now the media is up in arms about gun control so what did he do? he played to the people just like everyone else has. In his past four years the guy hasn't disarmed us at all and i'm starting to think he won't. If we want to ***** about something ***** about how many laws the CA government has taken from us in the past 2 years.

Although that AK47 comment did piss me off. less then 5% of all crimes in America are done with "AW", if they want to focus on gun crimes shouldn't they go after handguns? but hey if gun laws made sense they wouldn't make laws to stop law breakers.



QFT

swat
07-26-2012, 10:37 PM
Hey swat tell me what its like to buy a fully functional AR in Mass.

There are NO pro-gun candidates in this Presidential election. I am going to sit this one out.

RRangel
07-27-2012, 12:01 AM
ROMNEY dont line up with NRA but he pays for a life time membership... NICE


i rather have Obama than romney anyday......

Then you are a blatant enemy of gun rights. You can quote me on that.

stix213
07-27-2012, 12:06 AM
ROMNEY dont line up with NRA but he pays for a life time membership... NICE


i rather have Obama than romney anyday......

:rolleyes:

GgcoFi_Og68

phdo
07-27-2012, 12:11 AM
:rolleyes:

GgcoFi_Og68

I actually saw that interview on tv this morning. I didn't know it was about gun control or else I would've set my work aside and watched it.

RRangel
07-27-2012, 12:14 AM
Problem with Mitt is that he has no scruples. Maybe it's in his best interest to sign national reciprocity and maybe it will be in his best interest to renew the AWB. Based on his political history, both are equally likely.



You mean that ATF program that started in 2006 and was ended in early 2011? That "Obama" program? :rolleyes:

You're exposing your bias. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence, can differentiate between operation Wide Receiver, and the ill conceived Fast and Furious. The latter was planned and executed without an attempt to track firearms. Which is a blatant indicator of insidious planning.

The tracking was done after the fact, when the firearms had already been used in crime, which is beyond the pale. Wide Receiver was a traditional sting operation, that was done in coordination with Mexican officials, and was halted when things did not go as planned. Fast and Furious was hidden from the Mexican government and our own liaison agents in Mexico.

Fast and Furious was halted after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered with one of the 2000+ illegally walked guns. When juxtaposed the two are glaringly different.

So you're voting for Obama in November?

CDFingers
07-27-2012, 4:20 AM
CurleyRed, Mudcamper, and others are on to it,

While it is well known and true that Romney signed an AW bill in MA, gun owners still think he's the best choice. Moreover, not one, single poster on this thread can show any anti gun stuff Obama has done as president--and he's even signed pro gun stuff.

Yet...

I totally enjoy our Wild America.

CDFingers

carlosdarwin
07-27-2012, 4:38 AM
There are NO pro-gun candidates in this Presidential election. I am going to sit this one out.

Yeah, neither is particularly pro-gun. Romney is probably less anti-gun than BHO, but it's probably not gonna matter either way. Its not likely BHO and the Brady Bunch will have much success doing anti-gun legislation, other than increasing the strictness of background checks. I'm more worried about politicians in our own state (e.g. no Yee can't) who have more power to constantly hassle us and make us less free.

ArcherDog
07-27-2012, 6:51 AM
You're exposing your bias. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence, can differentiate between operation Wide Receiver, and the ill conceived Fast and Furious. The latter was planned and executed without an attempt to track firearms. Which is a blatant indicator of insidious planning.

The tracking was done after the fact, when the firearms had already been used in crime, which is beyond the pale. Wide Receiver was a traditional sting operation, that was done in coordination with Mexican officials, and was halted when things did not go as planned. Fast and Furious was hidden from the Mexican government and our own liaison agents in Mexico.

Fast and Furious was halted after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered with one of the 2000+ illegally walked guns. When juxtaposed the two are glaringly different.

So you're voting for Obama in November?

Nope, Gary Johnson, assuming I bother at all

And for the cluster-f that F&F was, there were multiple opportunities for the President and Congress to turn that operation into a chance to affect current gun laws. The ATF begged for new laws that would "help them track the weapons" and neither the President or Congress acquiesed. So tell me again how, now after that golden opportunity as come and gone, the President is going to somehow use that to his advantage and enact all sorts of draconian gun laws?

pgg
07-27-2012, 7:28 AM
Truth.

And after his second term is over, and he's still not pushed for any gun control, I get to say I told you so to 99% of all CalGunners.

You just don't get it.

The progress we're making rolling back gun laws is coming through the court system.

Even if Obama doesn't push any gun control legislation in a second term, he'd still spend four more years appointing judges.


Yeah, Romney signed an AWB as governor. But he won't appoint the same judges that Obama would.

Curley Red
07-27-2012, 7:30 AM
Curley red-

Border state registration
His appointed atf leaders keep trying to ban shotguns like the saiga 12 through non sporting import bans.

One of his appointed justices thinks heller should be revisited and overturned.

He wants another AWB but he took it off his campaign page but you can still find it through archive.org.

His AG holder is an anti gun wacko and has called for a new AWB multiple times.

His secretary of state keeps trying to enact gun registration and import bans through the UN treaty.

Need i continue?

What has he done to take away our gun rights as president? Has he signed any bills like the past republican presidents did?

And I love how when he first got elected everyone said he was going to take our guns away. But since he never did, it is now that he is going to wait to be re-elected.

He did sign a bill that allows those with concealed license to carry in National Parks. Other than that he has not signed anything.

Jack L
07-27-2012, 7:46 AM
CA won't see much change when/if the liberals go for more laws. But plenty of other states will be freaking out. Our balls have been cut off and some of us are almost used to it. But states with open sales, no paperwork for used guns, larger mags and so forth will go nutty if any real tough laws are passed. I am not holding my breath as I think that's a long ways off if ever.

OleCuss
07-27-2012, 7:51 AM
What has he done to take away our gun rights as president? Has he signed any bills like the past republican presidents did?

And I love how when he first got elected everyone said he was going to take our guns away. But since he never did, it is now that he is going to wait to be re-elected.

He did sign a bill that allows those with concealed license to carry in National Parks. Other than that he has not signed anything.

You may not have been tracking. . . There were a whole bunch of us who said he wasn't going to push hard for anti-RKBA legislation in his first term because he wants to be re-elected.

And he did not sign a bill for concealed carry in National Parks. Admittedly you didn't precisely say that he did. . . But to be clear, he signed a bill he figured he had to sign or everything would come apart, and an amendment to allow concealed carry in National Parks was attached to it.

And you keep ignoring who he nominates and appoints. I'm really curious if you can name even one member of his cabinet who is on the record as believing that the RKBA is an individual one and that we should be able to purchase, possess, and utilize firearms such as an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine?

I doubt there is a more committed opponent to the RKBA than Obama. About the only thing to which he is more committed is re-election.

jonzer77
07-27-2012, 8:25 AM
CurleyRed, Mudcamper, and others are on to it,

While it is well known and true that Romney signed an AW bill in MA, gun owners still think he's the best choice. Moreover, not one, single poster on this thread can show any anti gun stuff Obama has done as president--and he's even signed pro gun stuff.

Yet...

I totally enjoy our Wild America.

CDFingers

MA already had an AWB, the bill he signed made progress on the current AWB and was considered a success by the NRA. Get your facts straight before spreading FUD.

jonzer77
07-27-2012, 8:27 AM
Nope, Gary Johnson, assuming I bother at all

And for the cluster-f that F&F was, there were multiple opportunities for the President and Congress to turn that operation into a chance to affect current gun laws. The ATF begged for new laws that would "help them track the weapons" and neither the President or Congress acquiesed. So tell me again how, now after that golden opportunity as come and gone, the President is going to somehow use that to his advantage and enact all sorts of draconian gun laws?

What about the whole long gun registration in border states, did you forget about that?

mag360
07-27-2012, 9:19 AM
Curleyred, swat and others. You keep saying he hasnt signed anything. That is irrelevant, if that is what it takes for you to figure out that this guy is anti gun to the core then maybe I need to remind you the earth is round. It is JUST plain simple and out there. For you to not believe he is anti gun means that you have been completely assimilated by the likes of MSNBC and Bloomberg (he hasnt signed anythong either would you vote for him) or you really, honestly have a comprehension problem.

Mitt will toe the reep line of strong gun rights no matter what. Obama will keep demonizing gun owners and calling our guns weapons of war only good for massacres on the battlefield while he ramps up suppport for AWB2. If he loses that he still gets to appoint jackwagon justices, fed judges, atf and doj heads who can all further limit our right.

Checkmate.

Coded-Dude
07-27-2012, 9:22 AM
According to the thread/article I posted in 2A (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=600651)...Kamala Harris is one of Obama's top picks for SCOTUS.

RRangel
07-27-2012, 9:36 AM
Nope, Gary Johnson, assuming I bother at all

And for the cluster-f that F&F was, there were multiple opportunities for the President and Congress to turn that operation into a chance to affect current gun laws. The ATF begged for new laws that would "help them track the weapons" and neither the President or Congress acquiesed. So tell me again how, now after that golden opportunity as come and gone, the President is going to somehow use that to his advantage and enact all sorts of draconian gun laws?

Is that all you have? Strawman argument. We can expect nothing less from Obama apologists. Not only that, but the now resigned Obama appointed US Attorney for Arizona, was behind lack of prosecution.