Ugly Christmas sweater party Swat Team Raids my house! I finally get to tell my story

[proraptor]

Now that nothing is going to happen with this I can finally go into detail what happened in early December to me and my friends.

My girlfriend and I live in a 1 bedroom Anaheim apartment. It was around Christmas time so we decided to invite all our friends over for an ugly Christmas sweater party. It was a regular Christmas party but everyone had to show up in an ugly Christmas sweater not to mention everyone had to bring a funny gift for a gift exchange, and a bottle of alcohol or beer.

The night of the party and all of our friends show up in the ugliest, most hideous sweaters ever known to man, we looked like a bunch of dorks. We had way too many people show up (more than we invited) but everyone was ok and we had no problems. .

Then after many drinks we decide to do the gift exchange. I won’t even go into what the gifts were because it was just ridiculous some of the things people were opening up. At this point everyone was being loud and the party was getting mildly out of control.

I then showed my ar15 to some of my closer friends in the master bedroom. Someone knocks on the door and my girlfriend answers it. Two Anaheim police officers are standing there and one of them immediately asks “Did I just see a machinegun?” My girlfriend answers no but you might have just seen a California legal AR15. I really have no idea how they would have seen it unless they were trying to look through the blinds in my room on the other side of my apartment as that’s where it was located.

All of a sudden I hear a couple voices yelling “everyone get on the floor!” I immediately put my Ar-15 (equipped with a prince 50 mag lock) on the bed in the master bedroom and proceeded to get on the ground on my stomach like everyone else. At this point everyone was talking back to police asking them where their search warrants were etc….I yell for everyone to shut up but they had drinks in them and it didn’t help much.

The officers then tell everyone in the front room to walk out of the apartment one by one to sit on the outside concrete in front of my apartment. I’m still on my stomach with some friends in the master bedroom and an officer asked if there were any firearms in the apartment. I said yes listed them all and made sure I said they are all unloaded and all legally registered in my name. The officer then tells us to make our way to the front door. As I walk through the family room there is a SWAT team officer with an ar15 standing on my white couch with his dirty boots! The disrespect for my property immediately makes me mad but I don’t open my mouth and remain quiet.

I finally reach fresh air in front of my apartment and they sit me down on the concrete. I scan the area and I see my girlfriend crying hysterically 20 feet from me. They let her come sit next to me and I managed to calm her down and stop her crying. I also see my 2 marine friends pissed off talking with officers further away mentioning they had no search warrant, and no one gave them the consent to search , and they shouldn’t point guns at people with their fingers on the trigger unless they are ready to kill them, not to mention about 20 other people sitting around quietly scared to death.

By this time there are at least 15 police cars outside, 2 helicopters, multiple K9 units, etc etc. There are tons of cops searching my house. Then a couple officers come over to me and ask me where my firearms are and I tell them they are all unloaded and are all California legal not to mention registered to me and let them know where they are.

Finally a sergeant shows up and asks if I’m the renter of the apartment. I reply yes and give him my driver’s license. He immediately tells me my last name sounds familiar. I go on to tell him that his boss is my uncle and also tell him about all my other family members that work for Anaheim, and Fullerton. He says he knows my uncle and goes on to say what a nice guy and good officer he is. I come back and say yes he is a good person just like everyone at this very party. He hands me back my license and asks if he can enter my apartment to look around. I then say you might as well cause all the officers in their never were given the consent to search and are in there unlawfully. You can tell he didn’t like what I told him by his facial expressions and walks in my apartment.

He comes back out about 10 minutes later with all the officers and they crown around me. He says tell me about that AR in there that you say is California legal. I tell him the lower used is not on the list of banned firearms and there is a prince 50 mag lock installed to lock a 10 round mag into the receiver. I go into a ton more detail and felt like I was teaching all the officers about gun laws. The funny thing is they were all interested and were asking me questions. One officer says man you sure know all about the laws with this thing huh! I said I have to because of situations exactly like this one!

The sergeant then says hold tight and went to talk with the first two responding officers that were there. I hear his say we have nothing here and there isn’t anything we can do, you could tell he wasn’t the happiest camper…They then come back and say this is what is going to happen: We are just going to break up the party and send everyone home. I’m sorry we had to break up your party have a nice night….

The officers didn’t take any names, addresses, or phone #’s down they just got up and left. I go back inside and see all my firearms spread out on my bed locked open (the AR was cracked open shotgun style).

Trutanich Michel (lawyers for the NRA) were contacted by my neighbor (that was at the party) a couple days later and they were very interested in taking on the case. We started the process then lost contact with them and nothing ever happened. The End.

Please don’t post here bashing me or my friends as this isn’t what this thread is for. Many members on here wanted to know exactly what happened so I thought I would post it up for everyone to see. If the thread turns into a flame fest Ill just delete it…I also might be forgetting some stuff…There are a couple members that were there on these forums, feel free to add anything I forgot.

[Prc329]

They really came because of the ugly sweaters. They are banned you know.

[proraptor]

Cant really get into what my uncle said but my dad said if he was the first responding officer he would have handled it a little differently then winked at me.... :)

They know they screwed up!

[Prc329]

They know they screwed up!

That is the biggest understatement I have read this year.

[CALI-gula]

Interesting about their peering through the window while sneeking up on a party.

Does anbody recall the case on Halloween several years ago of a party on Yoakum Drive in Beverly Hills? Now if you know the Benedict Canyon area, I don't think there is a home under $4 Million on that entire stretch.

LAPD came upon a large Halloween party, and as they were snooping around the house, they see a guy with a fake Desert Eagle, who in turn, subsequently thinks the cops are fellow party goers dressed up as "cops" and points his prop gun at them (yes, dumb, but Lee wasn't a guy used to gun etiquette and safe handling). He wound up dead. LAPD insists there was a drug deal in progress.

I'm not saying it was wrong for the police officer (Hopper) to shoot given the circumstances - it sure looked like a real gun, and he was dipped in a chaotic situation - better safe than sorry. You've got a big guy in a mask pointing a very real looking gun at you, in a very quick manner, drawing from a waist band.

Yeah, I probably would have shot him too. But why in the hell were these officers so charged up to just start roaming the interior of the property? I might have just as easily waited at the door to the home of the party, before entering to snoop around the house, playing look-see. How much safer could they have been by not snooping around the place at all? Could NOT snooping around unnecessarily have prevented the shooting entirely? Going in and overtly ready to go guns drawn seems to be a mistake in both cases.

The full report- detailed photos - a good read people:

http://da.co.la.ca.us/pdf/leeois.pdf


"...was shot several times early Saturday by Officer Tarriel Hopper who fired through a glass door from an exterior hallway..."

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A police officer responding to a noisy Halloween party at a mansion north of Beverly Hills shot and killed an actor, who police said pointed what turned out to be a fake gun at him, police said Sunday. Anthony Dwain Lee, 39, who appeared in the 1997 movie 'Liar, Liar' and on several television shows including 'NYPD Blue,' was shot several times early Saturday by Officer Tarriel Hopper who fired through a glass door from an exterior hallway, the Los Angeles Police Department said in a statement.

The shooting took place about 1 a.m. at a crowded party attended by scores of costumed guests, many of them actors and other entertainment industry professionals, at a mansion known as "the Castle" for its spires and stained-glass windows, the Los Angeles Times reported.

It was not immediately known who owned the house or if the owner attended the party. "He was a Buddhist. He hated violence. It is amazing he died this way," Mitch Hale, a writer whose play 'Buffalo Soldier' starred Lee and earned him a local acting award, told the newspaper. "He was an incredibly gifted actor and person. It"s devastating ... Why did they shoot someone at a Halloween party?"

Police said Hopper and Officer Natalie Humphreys were attempting to find the owner of the home in the Benedict Canyon area of Los Angeles after neighbors complained about the party. The officers were at the rear of the house when Hopper looked into a small room and spotted three people. Police said that when Lee saw the officers he pulled what looked like a handgun and pointed it at Hopper, who, in fear for his life, fired several shots from his service pistol, wounding Lee, the LAPD statement said.

Lee was later pronounced dead at the scene by paramedics. Officer Charlotte Broughton, a spokeswoman for the LAPD, said many of the party-goers were in costume.

One guest told the Times that some of guests were dressed as cops, but it was not known if Lee was wearing a costume. It was also not clear if Lee realized Hopper was a real officer with a real gun. The police department said Lee's supposed weapon was a fake, "a replica semiautomatic pistol, dark in color."

The shooting is being investigated by the LAPD's Robbery-Homicide Division and a team from the district attorney"s office.

Another party-goer, Robert Hull, told the Times, "It was a shock that an officer would shoot at such a party. This was an exclusive party with security. Some of these people are making six figures, and this officer saw a toy gun at a Halloween costume party and opened fire."

Another of the victim"s friends, Mary Lin, told the newspaper, "His biggest fear was getting killed by cops, because he's a tall black man." Lee's friends said Sunday they were planning to hold a candlelight vigil in his honor Monday evening.

.

[mcubed4130]

Wow... Glad you and everyone came out mostly ok.

Nice to know you got to educate the local PD...

But I think you really should send a $1000 cleaning bill, for the dirty boots on your white couch. :D

-M3

[rkt88edmo]

As I walk through the family room there is a SWAT team officer with an ar15 standing on my white couch with his dirty boots! The disrespect for my property immediately makes me mad but I don’t open my mouth and remain quiet.

I'm Rick James, Bia***!!!

[Steyr_223]

Dude,

Glad everything turned out ok..Just curious what do you think would have happened if you did not know all the laws or could not explain them to the cops?Or if you did not have relatives that are LEO? What would have happen of you were a minority..

Again glad your good.

S

[Japsican]

Interesting story dude,

Glad to hear everything came out okay I guess...Sucks that all that crap happend. I was curious to know what happend when you told me SWAT was at your place when I was picking up the corals:D.

I guess it's good to know what you're talking about and also know people in high places...they probably ***** their pants when they found out who you were linked to haha...

Glad you still got your guns and dont have to hassle with the screwed up system.

Marc

[Bizcuits]

Yeah, I probably would have shot him too. But why in the hell were these officers so charged up to just start roaming the interior of the property? I might have just as easily waited at the door to the home of the party, before entering to snoop around the house, playing look-see. How much safer could they have been by not snooping around the place at all?

This is not an attack at you, but an attempt to explain why and the basic fear / mental state.

How much safer could they have been by not snooping around the place at all? - This is a good question

You have your entire life to figure out what they did wrong in the incidents which have already occured.

If your wearing a uniform many people "HATE" and only respect out of fear, your going to view your options of approach much more carefully. You have no idea what is going on inside the house.

You hear loud music, you hear yelling, screaming, you maybe smell beer as your approaching. There are a million different things which could be going on inside of the apartment or house when you approach. You could knock on the front door and catch a round from some random nut job.

Just like in war if a cop lets his guard down like a soldier does, hes a dead man.

How many LEOs are killed every year for ignoring signs of concern on traffic stops. You have no idea what the person you stopped is doing. You don't know if someone is hiding in the trunk with a weapon ready to pop you once you pass by. Could the driver have a pistol aimed at the drivers door ready to fire onto you just, because he doesn't want a ticket?

You see an AR-15 on the gun rack of a truck. Sure the driver could be a nice guy who legally owns the weapon. HOWEVER the driver might not be the owner of the truck, in fact he may just be the guy who carjacked and murdered the originally driver. YOU DO NOT KNOW.

While it's easy to be a monday morning quarter back. It's a lot harder to walk up onto an occupied vehicle or group of possible out of control people.

In 2006, 16 LEO's were killed in the line of duty in California.
In 2006, 145 LEO's were killed in the line of duty Nation Wide.

As of now in 2007, 78 LEO's were killed in the line of duty Nation Wide. "31 of those were killed by firearms fired by criminals.
In May 2007, 21 LEO's were killed in the line of duty Nation Wide.

What is my point?

LEO's want to go home to their families at the end of the day. They do what they are trained and they do what they feel is right at the moment. Until you've been their and you've experinced the fear of the job, then you don't know what your talking about. The same a Senator talking about a soldiers ethics or a virgin talking about sex.

[luvtolean]

LEO's want to go home to their families at the end of the day. They do what they are trained and they do what they feel is right at the moment. Until you've been their and you've experinced the fear of the job, then you don't know what your talking about. The same a Senator talking about a soldiers ethics or a virgin talking about sex.


And that guy was legally participating in a party, he wanted to go home too.

Look, cops have a tough job. I am thankful we have such a good police force in this country. People should TRY to put themselves in your shoes before they criticize.

But we pay your salary. We subjugate ourselves to law enforcement and law knowing it's for the greater good. We allow cops MANY special rights in regards to weapons, access to private property and being "above" various other laws.

In return for this, police are obligated to abide by our rules, and to address our criticisms.

It's a good system. It's not perfect, but as good as we've been able to make it.

[KenpoProfessor]

This is not an attack at you, but an attempt to explain why and the basic fear / mental state.

How much safer could they have been by not snooping around the place at all? - This is a good question

You have your entire life to figure out what they did wrong in the incidents which have already occured.

If your wearing a uniform many people "HATE" and only respect out of fear, your going to view your options of approach much more carefully. You have no idea what is going on inside the house.

You hear loud music, you hear yelling, screaming, you maybe smell beer as your approaching. There are a million different things which could be going on inside of the apartment or house when you approach. You could knock on the front door and catch a round from some random nut job.

Just like in war if a cop lets his guard down like a soldier does, hes a dead man.

How many LEOs are killed every year for ignoring signs of concern on traffic stops. You have no idea what the person you stopped is doing. You don't know if someone is hiding in the trunk with a weapon ready to pop you once you pass by. Could the driver have a pistol aimed at the drivers door ready to fire onto you just, because he doesn't want a ticket?

You see an AR-15 on the gun rack of a truck. Sure the driver could be a nice guy who legally owns the weapon. HOWEVER the driver might not be the owner of the truck, in fact he may just be the guy who carjacked and murdered the originally driver. YOU DO NOT KNOW.

While it's easy to be a monday morning quarter back. It's a lot harder to walk up onto an occupied vehicle or group of possible out of control people.

In 2006, 16 LEO's were killed in the line of duty in California.
In 2006, 145 LEO's were killed in the line of duty Nation Wide.

As of now in 2007, 78 LEO's were killed in the line of duty Nation Wide. "31 of those were killed by firearms fired by criminals.
In May 2007, 21 LEO's were killed in the line of duty Nation Wide.

What is my point?

LEO's want to go home to their families at the end of the day. They do what they are trained and they do what they feel is right at the moment. Until you've been their and you've experinced the fear of the job, then you don't know what your talking about. The same a Senator talking about a soldiers ethics or a virgin talking about sex.


If you're looking for sympathy you won't see it from me. If you're a LEO and you feel the job is that dangerous, DON'T DO IT. The money is good for LEO's here in CA, and of course all the special perks that come with the job, that's why they do it.

I could make HUGE F'n money in Iraq, wanna know why I don't do it, cuz it's DANGEROUS, so I stay home.

Wonder why people hate LEO's, look around, we don't see the good guys because they're actually doing their job. The @sshats are harassing innocent people, and that makes us angry.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[tenpercentfirearms]

I think part of this comes from where you live. I couldn't see something like this happening up here in Taft. I would hope our LEOs would never ask such a stupid question like, "Do you have any guns in your apartment?" Obviously it is none of their business, but a more appropriate question up this ways would be, "How many guns do you have in your apartment?"

Seriously, if you are on a 415 disturbance call, who cares if there are guns? It isn't like there are going to be people shooting at you. I would hope if something like that were to occur to me I would stick to my rights and say, "You have no warrant, what is your probable cause? If you want to talk to me, we can talk outside." Of course, until I am in that situation, I really don't know. I think you handled it well.

[chickenfried]

Just wondering if you registered any kind of formal complaint with the police department or local government?

[chickenfried]

cops don't even break the top ten
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/26/pf/jobs_jeopardy/

[artherd]

Send 'em a bill for cleaning your couch.

[bwiese]

In 2006, 16 LEO's were killed in the line of duty in California.
In 2006, 145 LEO's were killed in the line of duty Nation Wide.


Sounds like a good transition for someone tired of the danger of being a 7-11 clerk or taxi driver. (Much higher risk occupations than police.)

Most of those numbers quoted are from traffic accidents, btw.

LEO's want to go home to their families at the end of the day.


For $135K/yr with inflation-indexed lifetime pensions and healthcare, they can damned well follow our rules.

And your comments are irrelevant for breaking up a tame but slightly-noisy party with a warrantless raid.

[sintax]

I think I would have came through the bedroom window swinging on a rope! You looked like a trouble maker when I bought that 1911 off of you. (which i'm still very much in love with btw. You should have seen the X ring my lady tore out of the target her FIRST time shooting it btw. She shoots it way better then i do. So i pretty much told her shes not allowed to shoot it anymore.)

[Jicko]

I then showed my ar15 to some of my closer friends in the master bedroom. Someone knocks on the door and my girlfriend answers it. Two Anaheim police officers are standing there and one of them immediately asks “Did I just see a machinegun?” My girlfriend answers no but you might have just seen a California legal AR15. I really have no idea how they would have seen it unless they were trying to look through the blinds in my room on the other side of my apartment as that’s where it was located.

<snip>

He hands me back my license and asks if he can enter my apartment to look around. I then say you might as well cause all the officers in their never were given the consent to search and are in there unlawfully. You can tell he didn’t like what I told him by his facial expressions and walks in my apartment.


With the officers SEEING the AR with their eyes thru the window....

And with ur girl saying that.... will that give them enough PC to enter and search? (if your girl didn't say that... or question them back.. "did you see an airsoft BB gun?" in response to “Did I just see a machinegun?” )

[eta34]

Where in CA are police officers making $135k? I need to go there? Seriously, where?

[five.five-six]

Where in CA are police officers making $135k? I need to go there? Seriously, where?

that seems abit high. sherifs start at $45k but ther is all the overtime you can eat. I do not think that is too far off for a grose once you make detective

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Where in CA are police officers making $135k? I need to go there? Seriously, where?

In the news I hear about this from time to time, usually on exposes of poor budgeting at local gov't agencies. The "street cops" making that amount of money are usually veteran LEOs working a ton of overtime, and make more money from OT than regular pay.

I then showed my ar15 to some of my closer friends in the master bedroom. Someone knocks on the door and my girlfriend answers it. Two Anaheim police officers are standing there and one of them immediately asks “Did I just see a machinegun?” My girlfriend answers no but you might have just seen a California legal AR15. I really have no idea how they would have seen it unless they were trying to look through the blinds in my room on the other side of my apartment as that’s where it was located.

Lesson learned--you need super-duper blinds whenever you take out your AR in California. Regular blinds cannot hide the pure evilness of the firearm.

[medic707]

Where in CA are police officers making $135k? I need to go there? Seriously, where?


with overtime Richmond and vallejo are both in that ball park (thats not base pay and thats comin from some people that have been there a few yrs)

[bwiese]

Where in CA are police officers making $135k? I need to go there? Seriously, where?

SFPD. Many other metro areas will be roughly similar (SJPD, etc).

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/04/BAG67Q71DG1.DTL



Cop comp: When it comes to contracts, the new San Francisco police deal is one gift that will keep on giving.

Yes, it contains cost-saving measures such as limiting when officers can work second jobs, cutting their ability to store and cash out on compensatory time, and even eliminating overtime for captains.

But boy, does it have a nice payout -- starting with a 23 percent salary increase over the next four years.

"There is no question about it, it's a rich contract, but when compared to other cities and jurisdictions it's competitive,'' Supervisor Sean Elsbernd said.

If approved by the Board of Supervisors, the deal would raise a patrol officer's top pay to at least $114,000 a year. That's before overtime.

Sergeants and inspectors would go up to $132,000 a year, plus overtime.

Captains would get at least $191,000 a year.

Chief Heather Fong and her command staff aren't covered by the contract. But traditionally, the chief's pay has kept pace with the rank and file. So unless something changes dramatically, the chief will be making about $307,000 a year at the contract's end.

The real payoff, however, comes when the cops retire.

At the end of the contract, a 55-year-old patrol officer with 30 years under his belt will be entitled to a $109,000-a-year pension -- plus, in all likelihood, an additional 3 percent cost-of-living increase every year for the rest of the officer's life.

Inspectors and sergeants with 30 years will get about $126,000 a year for life plus cost-of-living adjustments.

Captains will get $182,000 a year and the chief, if she keeps pace with everyone else, about $293,000 a year, plus cost-of-living raises.

And like every other city worker with five years on the job, they all get health care for life -- and half off for one dependent.


That $114K patrol officer mentioned above is getting huge benefits - with an effective contribution of $28K (aside from any self-paid matching) necessary to keep the pension/medical plan funded. This does not count paid vacation, either.
All in all, paid benefits for major PDs run approx. ~30% of salary.

[medic707]

If you're looking for sympathy you won't see it from me. If you're a LEO and you feel the job is that dangerous, DON'T DO IT. The money is good for LEO's here in CA, and of course all the special perks that come with the job, that's why they do it.

I could make HUGE F'n money in Iraq, wanna know why I don't do it, cuz it's DANGEROUS, so I stay home.

Wonder why people hate LEO's, look around, we don't see the good guys because they're actually doing their job. The @sshats are harassing innocent people, and that makes us angry.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Agreed 100% LEO's have a general idea of what the job entails before they hit the streets and if you dont want to be put in dangerous situations and have people hate you dont be a cop.

I understand that LEO's want to go home to their families but that gives them no right to trample on others rights or be disrespectful to people that are respecting you. That would be like me refusing care to a patient do to the fact they have AIDS or HEP, I want to go home to my family too, i dont want to bring that with me but guess what its part of the job and i knew it before i went to medic school.
Now dont take that as a slam on LEO's have plenty of LEO friends and have a love hate relationship with them at work :D and i thank thank them every chance i get for doin a job i would never want to do and usually they say the same to me

[proraptor]

How do you know the original poster isn't embellishing just a tad? Nah...that never happens...in an anti-cop thread...on a predominately anti-cop firearms board. No sir-ee.


There was no embellishing in my original post.....I actually left some stuff out like when the forcefully pushed the front door open the door hit my neighbor in the face.....Or what about them pointing their guns at my friends' heads? I chose to leave that out of the post because of cop bashing....

Im very pro cop....My whole fmaily is law enforcement....My dad which is a sargeant didnt believe it either until he heard it from my uncle....:rolleyes:

[LAK Supply]

I happen to agree with Clyde and Piper as well. There are good LEO's out there, but there are definitely a lot of cops that seem to think they're above the rest of us.

The elitist "I should get special treatment 'cause I'm a cop" attitude that is present with some officers is repugnant to me, as is the attitude that normal people are somehow less-than when it comes to owning personal property. They seem to forget that the people are their employers; not subjects to be trampled on when because cops want to feel "safe."

If those "bad apples" were purged from the force by their fellows more often many people would not have the view that they do.

[gn3hz3ku1*]

i have had some very bad situations with bad cops.. and i also have cop friends.

there are good and bad to everything the bad part is that cops are out in the public more and more of the bad gets reported.

but comon.. for the guys saying give the guys a break its a dangerous job... if you dont like your job.. get out.
its not the military where you have to go and even then your contact does expire and i know plenty of people who got out asap.

[CALI-gula]

This is not an attack at you, but an attempt to explain why and the basic fear / mental state. How much safer could they have been by not snooping around the place at all? - This is a good question.

I realize it's not personal. But I don't agree with your defense of snooping around unnecessarily. Gestapo did that, without provocation. The British overran homes in our country, merely to live in them for free room and board.

In the case of the Halloween party, it led to an unnecessary shooting. Make NO mistake it WAS a mistake. There was no imminent danger requiring an entry that deep into the property.

If my neighbor calls the police to say my dog is barking too loud inside my house, should police enter my home if I don't answer the door immediately? No, the situation should be handled appropriately; you just don't barge in and start walking through someone's house just to quiet a dog. None of these cases presented potential life-threatening situations. The barging in approach was not necessary for any of them.

If your wearing a uniform many people "HATE" and only respect out of fear, your going to view your options of approach much more carefully. You have no idea what is going on inside the house.

That’s right - you have no idea, and that’s beauty of being a US citizen. That’s what separates us from China and Cuba. Likewise, you also have no idea what's going on in 100% of the homes on the same street, but are you going to enter each one simply to discover something? Stay out of the house, especially for minor disturbance calls, and mistakes won't happen. People tend to "HATE" you for entering their private property unnecessarily, walking through like you own the place, and then shooting people mistakenly.

You hear loud music, you hear yelling, screaming, you maybe smell beer as your approaching. There are a million different things which could be going on inside of the apartment or house when you approach. You could knock on the front door and catch a round from some random nut job.

...And what about the house next door, with all it's lights off and seemingly nobody home. Do you go into that house because it's too quiet? Maybe some pedophile has a little girl tied up with duct tape and is holding a knife to her throat - yeah, check that house, THAT might be going on in there.

Just like in war if a cop lets his guard down like a soldier does, hes a dead man.

Sorry, this wasn't a war - it was a noisy party in Beverly Hills, in a good neighborhood, on Halloween, where people were having fun. While people at the party were not eager to invite the officers in on party fun, they weren’t assaulting them either. What war was going on there? Is it logical to suspect Al Qaeda, Hamas, or even the 18th Street Gang are barred up with RPGs on Yoakum in Benedict Canyon? It’s no more a war than it is a video game.

How many LEOs are killed every year for ignoring signs of concern on traffic stops. You have no idea what the person you stopped is doing. You don't know if someone is hiding in the trunk with a weapon ready to pop you once you pass by. Could the driver have a pistol aimed at the drivers door ready to fire onto you just, because he doesn't want a ticket?

In this one mistake, of entering private property brazenly by the police officers due to inflated sense of powers, Lee is very much dead.

I repeatedly noted that given the situation, I don't blame the officer for having shot Lee - I blame him and his partner for barging through the property like they owned the place. One mistake of abuse of power and inflated sense of right to do whatever the hell they wanted, led to another mistake - a dead man.

While it's easy to be a monday morning quarter back. It's a lot harder to walk up onto an occupied vehicle or group of possible out of control people.

Nope; just being a law-abiding US citizen observing great increases in abuses of power by law enforcement in the past 10 years, and seeing this abuse returning to a pre-1970 style delivery. I don’t want to be shot in my own living room through my front pane window, simply because a police officer drives by my house Wednesday night, seeing I’m cleaning my 1898 Krag on my coffee table while watching “Shooting USA”, as my wife fell asleep on the chaise, and his imagination runs wild because he’s played one too many episodes of “Resident Evil” and he thinks I’ve just shot my wife, she’s dead, I’ve got an automatic AK47 in my hands, and in order to win the game, he must shoot me first before I eat his brain.

You can't minimize the actual accounts being discussed here by making unrelated comparisons to other manners by which police officers face risks in the line of duty. We are talking about police officers DANGEROUSLY contributing to and heightening the risk by boldly entering private property that could get them OR innocent people killed by ACCIDENT.

LEO's want to go home to their families at the end of the day. They do what they are trained and they do what they feel is right at the moment. Until you've been their and you've experinced the fear of the job, then you don't know what your talking about. The same a Senator talking about a soldiers ethics or a virgin talking about sex.

That doesn't give an officer the right to abuse power in ANY moment. Innocent people who are the victims of Gestapo-like tactics would like to have gone home at the end of the day. Don't belittle the situation at hand, that of abusively raiding private property or snooping around someone's privacy, simply because an officer may have a tough job elsewhere. Also don't assume that all LEO agree with your assumption that going into private property with little cuation is a wise choice.

Just because there exists a crack house down on Florence which may serve up several arrests at any time, day or night, an officer should be able to barge into any home they come across with the same prejudice? If a soldier comes back from Iraq, should he continue to suspect fast approaching cars in the desert of Palm Springs may be a rolling bomb? Should he simply open fire on that car? A reality check is in order.

As a US citizen, I do know what I am talking about - we banished old allowances for soldiers, police, and King's Lords to enter our properties without just cause, do as they please, take hold of our property, and rape our lives.

I see pure rape of peace by officers abusing power, in both proraptor's incident as well as the Halloween party shooting. The topic at hand is unecessary abuse of power with dangerous and unreasonably brash entry into private property. I am critizing dangerous, aggressive, overzealous and abusive entry into/onto private property. I have not questioned the heroic incidents of many police officers or the honor of their job. Proraptor is very lucky the abuse of power did not turn ugly like it did for the Halloween party 7 years ago.

.

[Piper]

I was thinking of this long drawnout diatribe to post. But, rambling really isn't my style. I didn't come to Calguns to bash cops, but when I hear about cops going off the deep end and making law abiding citizens lives miserable ( was it really necessary to stand on the guys white sofa), that's where I draw the line. IMO from now on I will say nothing about cops on Calguns, infact I won't acknowledge a cops post. If they want to be whiners, I will simply treat them the way I treated my kids when they whined. I will ignore them. This is all I have to say on this subject.

[CALI-gula]

Citing a problem with a tactic or procedure, such as barging into a home or private property due to imagined powers, wherein that actual act of barging in could increase the chaos and heighten a situation which would have been amicable otherwise, noting the dangerous aspects of certain methods, etc., is NOT "cop bashing".

Is being critical of how law enforcement approached BWO's legal possession of 1919A4s "cop bashing"? Is being critical of the hassle, injury to life-quality, cessation of education, and monetary sacrifice to essentially "prove his innocence" in a world that painted BWO as guilty of imagined crimes, due to their ignorance of firearms laws, "cop bashing?"

Citing very real and very detrimental mistakes, is NOT "cop bashing" - it just is, a mistake, no more no less. Reporting and examination of those mistakes is absolutely necessary, and it may not always be sugary sweet. This is true especially when those mistakes are begotten out of abuses of power, usually quite costly to those who are the victims of such mistakes.

.

[kantstudien]

So... where are the sweater cows? :confused:

[socalguns]

http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2000_Screwed/norm_macdonald_dave_chappelle_screwed_001.jpg
(after Rusty hits the cop over the head with a desk lamp)
Willard Fillmore: What the hell did you do that for?
Rusty P. Hayes: I was scared!
Willard Fillmore: So everytime you're scared you hit a guy over the head with a desk lamp?

[supersonic]

I'm Rick James, Bia***!!!

"Now why would I go 'n' put ma dirty boots on his couch? That's just stupid, 'man......Yeah, I put my boots on his couch..........Cocaine is a hell of a drug, man! HAHAHAHAHA! I'm Rick James, Beotch!!!"
S.S.:43:

[6172crew]

Can we get this back on topic or should I just close this thread?

Look nobody wants a boot on the neck and we all know the laws better than %75 of the people in CA including some of the gunshops but if you think throwing stones in this thread will fix it then you should go over to AR15.com and see how far its gotten them.:43:

[eta34]

OK, this is silly. As a LEO, I do not view this as another "anti-cop" thread. I wasn't offended by the concerns brought up by the original posters. I don't subscribe to the theory that we (LEO's) are somehow better than the average citizen.

This conversation goes both ways. Some on this board believe law enforcement can do no right. If one officer is a jerk, then LEO community as a whole is corrupt, power-hungry, and ridiculous. However, many in the LEO community are the same way. We do EVERYTHING right, and how dare some "average citizen" criticize us? After all, if you haven't done the job, you have no right to comment....both philosophies are obviously flawed.

Finally, Kenpo stated that he has no sympathy for those in LEO. To paraphrase, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." I agree completely. Nobody forced us to do this job. I understand that there is a possibility that I could get hurt/killed during the course of my day. I also understand that I am well-compensated, get a lot of time off, and have a great retirement.

Overall, we in LEO whine too much.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Go ask public school teachers what I'm talking about.

-Gene

What are you talking about Gene? My tenure starts in 74 days and then I will be nearly untouchable! As long as I don't let anyone die or sleep with anyone, I can pretty much guarantee job security despite minimal work output forever!!!

This privatization thing sounds good in theory and yes I agree with it, but reality is the unions and the liberals and even "conservatives" who vote their pocket books are never going to turn this thing around.

Sorry, you shouldn't have asked a public school teacher for back up on this one. The public school teacher will never go away thanks to the union. If it does, hell will have frozen over and our kids might learn something again.

As far as the original topic goes, I have no problem looking at these incidents on a case by case basis. I find it sad that some people think because one cop acts one way, that all cops are that way. Then again, I think all of you are overweight, white males, with small penises, chew tobacco, and drive raised trucks. What do I know?

[Fjold]

What are you talking about Gene? My tenure starts in 74 days and then I will be nearly untouchable! As long as I don't let anyone die or sleep with anyone, I can pretty much guarantee job security despite minimal work output forever!!!



OK folks, we have 2 1/2 months to save our children. :innocent:

[leelaw]

MRex21,

Since you decided to disallow moderators from sending you PMs, I guess we get to do this out in the public now.

You will cease baiting other members and trolling this thread. Keep it up and you'll get a spanking from Ivan and a time-out.

And now back to our thread.

[Kestryll]

Since you decided to disallow moderators from sending you PMs...

That has been fixed.

[mcubed4130]

...I then showed my ar15 to some of my closer friends in the master bedroom. Someone knocks on the door and my girlfriend answers it. Two Anaheim police officers are standing there and one of them immediately asks “Did I just see a machinegun?” My girlfriend answers no but you might have just seen a California legal AR15. I really have no idea how they would have seen it unless they were trying to look through the blinds in my room on the other side of my apartment as that’s where it was located...

Btw... should we take up a collection to help you buy a few of these?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/mcubed4130/blackout_roller.jpg

Or did you and your girl, go shopping like the next day, and buy some? :D

-M3

[1064chubbs]

I know a few PO's in Anaheim and I guess your the guy they told me about. Didn't think it would be someone from here.

[Piper]

First off, I will apologize for my emotional outburst. Now I will say this with a more civil tone.

Privatizing law enforcement would be very easy to do. Infact the railroads and private universities are permitted under California law to have their own police with full peace officer status. Private patrol companies already exist, so it is feasible that private police departments can be developed. Training isn't an issue, because there are companies that are more than capable of training private law enforcement to P.O.S.T. standards. The upside to privatization is competition, lower costs and improved quality. Companies will be under contract and competing for contracts with other companies. Since employees aren't government employees, they can be considered "at will", meaning that the company that hired them would not have to go through a "Skelly hearing" as part of the termination process. In other words, the bad apples can be thrown out with a two word phrase "YOUR FIRED". That in the long run means that the government body that contracts to a private police department has better control in the long run.

So you see, getting good quality law enforcement is a relativly simple process.

[hoffmang]

And Piper has hit on what I was talking about.

Wes - the item I was thinking about in regards to public schools is vouchers. Sooner or later, quality of service (or a lack thereof) will get a response out of consumers. Some activities just have a little more insulation than others.

-Gene

[Yankee Clipper]

First off, I will apologize for my emotional outburst. Now I will say this with a more civil tone.

Privatizing law enforcement would be very easy to do. Infact the railroads and private universities are permitted under California law to have their own police with full peace officer status. Private patrol companies already exist, so it is feasible that private police departments can be developed. Training isn't an issue, because there are companies that are more than capable of training private law enforcement to P.O.S.T. standards. The upside to privatization is competition, lower costs and improved quality. Companies will be under contract and competing for contracts with other companies. Since employees aren't government employees, they can be considered "at will", meaning that the company that hired them would not have to go through a "Skelly hearing" as part of the termination process. In other words, the bad apples can be thrown out with a two word phrase "YOUR FIRED". That in the long run means that the government body that contracts to a private police department has better control in the long run.

So you see, getting good quality law enforcement is a relativly simple process.

I hope your kidding about privatizing law enforcement. That was more common in the earlier part of the last century. It didn't work very well then and Precision Shooting has an interesting story this month that illustrates some of the problems. Back then it was whoever signs the pay check, makes the laws. At the time not only railroads but also mining companies and auto manufacturers had their own hired police agencies. The first thing that comes to mind is how much more are you going to have to pay your private LE if he/she can be so easily fired, even as they're expected to put their life on the line? I think it would end up costing the public more and personnel competence, from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, would be more uneven than it is now.

[mcubed4130]

I hope your kidding about privatizing law enforcement. That was more common in the earlier part of the last century. It didn't work very well then and Precision Shooting has an interesting story this month that illustrates some of the problems. Back then it was whoever signs the pay check, makes the laws. At the time not only railroads but also mining companies and auto manufacturers had their own hired police agencies. The first thing that comes to mind is how much more are you going to have to pay your private LE if he/she can be so easily fired, even as they're expected to put their life on the line? I think it would end up costing the public more and personnel competence, from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, would be more uneven than it is now.

Based upon the example of "School Vouchers" the person cutting the check is still the government.

Also since my family has been involved in LE on the Sheriff side - for decades... I hear all the time - about how - another city - has decided to become a "contract city" for the Sheriff department.

So the concept that a "City" outsources their police duties to a "Sheriff Department" - is already a known quantity.

The question is... how much longer will it be... before the "City" outsources to privately operated agencies that provide LE services. Or before the Sheriff department outsources some duties directly.

The rhetorical answer being... with the amount of corruption - allowing politicians to line the pockets of their buddies... I would assume - "government paid for" - privately owned service companies... are not very far off.

-M3

[proraptor]

I know a few PO's in Anaheim and I guess your the guy they told me about. Didn't think it would be someone from here.

Just curious what did they have to say about all of it?

[Budd]

Just curious what did they have to say about all of it?

X2 - that would be interesting..........

[Paradiddle]

Just curious what did they have to say about all of it?

I can guess.


PO1
"So we rolled on a disturbance call the other night. Some party - loud music, drunk youths - same old $h*t. Then we hear about an AR15 and it hits the fan."

PO2
"Yeah - what happened"

PO1
"We just couldn't believe that some guy would pick a loud party with tons of drunk people as a good time to show off his black rifle. Took us all by surprise. I mean - who does that?"

PO2
"Did you arrest him on principal?"

PO1
"No, but we did confiscate the worst looking sweater I've ever seen..."

[leelaw]

Stuff

Yeah, I really did deal with the other posters the same way I dealt with you, except they didn't decide to then break the COC some more.

I hope you enjoyed your flight with Calguns Air, and I do hope you are happy with our services today, however your flight has now come to an end and you must depart.

Good bye, now.

[sunborder]

Sorry to temporarily hijack the thread, but I can't let this stand unanswered.

This privatization thing sounds good in theory and yes I agree with it, but reality is the unions and the liberals and even "conservatives" who vote their pocket books are never going to turn this thing around.

Sorry, you shouldn't have asked a public school teacher for back up on this one. The public school teacher will never go away thanks to the union. If it does, hell will have frozen over and our kids might learn something again.

First off, the unions, much as I hate them (for being spineless & self serving, not by nature of being a union...oh, and because they refuse to pressure the district to do anything worthwhile for school security), are not the reason that public schoolteachers are still around. Public schoolteachers are around because public schools are around. The unions don't control how the public votes. Given how political education is, if you don't have some system for protecting teachers (tenure), they will be hired and fired at the whim of a principal. Seeing how many incompetent and vindictive principals are out there, that would be disaster (I work part time for a school that just turned over HALF its staff in two years due to an incompetent/vindictive principal). There are plenty of teachers who need to be forcibly retired, but eliminating the tenure system is not the answer to "fixing" education. All that would do is silence the teachers who didn't go along with whatever teaching fad is in fashion this week at the district principal's meeting or had the guts to do what is actually right for their students and point out the subjects that principals don't want to hear about (anything besides one or two standardized test scores...nothing else matters to many principals except being sued). I'm not painting all principals with the same brush (my primary principal, a former USMC drill instructor, is fantastic, and our results back that up), but a bad superintendant(political job) can flood a district with bad principals on a mission to break a union, rather than focus on education.

Out of 180 class days in the regular school year, over 10 of them are testing or mandatory practice test days. Add in another 15 or so days of mandatory all-day meetings (mostly useless "training" that's a rehash of teacher ed programs). Throw in a three day weekend once a month, and I am only teaching about 4 days out of five. If you want the kids to learn something, give me back my teaching days, kick the kids' lawyers out of the schools (all the kids have is rights...no responsibilities), and send the police to talk with the deadbeat parents who call in sick for their kids 2-3 times a week all year.

And don't even get me started on what the official word was when our staff asked the district about us using lethal force to protect our students from a shooter on campus (yes, we asked, and nobody in the staff meeting even batted an eyebrow at the question). Our schools are screwed up. Nobody disputes that. Using that to take a cheap shot at teachers is a low blow. That's like blaming the police unions for crime.

/hijack off/

Back on topic: Illegal searches are illegal. Tresspassing is a crime. The fact that someone wears a uniform while doing it makes it worse, not better. The fact that the OP had to resort to name dropping to get things under control also makes it worse, not better (not that I blame him for doing it, though...I blame the twerps who barged into a private home without a warrant/consent/probable cause). There is no defense for gross dereliction of duty. What more needs to be said?

[.50DE]

that whole story makes me ashamed to work for the city of anaheim. To think, I got a 5% raise* over several years*, those guys gots somthing on the order of 30%. I know how APD can be man, been here all my life, jump the gun first, ask questions later, if at all.

[rocketboy]

You mean they didn't shoot the dog??!!

[.50DE]

Im sure the dog got checked for "Evil Features" lol

[xxG3xx]

well im glad that they understood when you had to explain the laws to them lol

[Mute]

Since no one at proraptor's party broke any law before, or during the raid, I don't see how anything could have happened that would justify the show of force that took place or the search of his apartment. It's ridiculous. They are lucky that no lawsuit has been filed against them.

[Piper]

He should at least turn in a claim to have his white sofa cleaned. I mean really, was it necessary to step on the sofa in jack boots?

[proraptor]

The couch was no big deal guys.....We put a cover over it anyways that we ended up getting for christmas....

[Prc329]

Proraptor, you need to make it out to Angeles on sunday morning to take out your frustration with having to go threw this situation on some steel plates. Man, I still need to break in my Para.

[proraptor]

Proraptor, you need to make it out to Angeles on sunday morning to take out your frustration with having to go threw this situation on some steel plates. Man, I still need to break in my Para.

I think there is going to be a socal arfcom shoot on saturday at a reserved burro tac range....Thats where Ill be if I go shooting this weekend

[Prc329]

Damn niece and her birthday party :D

[proraptor]

My b-day is tomorrow :)

Looks like the arfcom shoot isnt going to happen :( Im not sure I can drive all the way to angeles.....gas is pretty expensive!

[Prc329]

Get Budd and meet me there Sunday morning. 9am

[Kestryll]

Sunday morning at Angeles?
Hmmm.. gotta see what my Wife has on the calander...

[proraptor]

I only have 6 rounds of .308 and dont want to pay a million dollars a box locally for it....

Budd wont be able to go up sunday anyways cause he has church :(

[Budd]

Budd wont be able to go up sunday anyways cause he has church :(

Correct.

[wildcard]

Burro on Saturday anyone? I'll be there shooting some clays on the shotgun range and fruits of some sort on the rifle range :)

[glockman19]

1st...You NEVER allow ANY LEO to enter your property owned or rented without a search warrant.:kest:
2nd...At the end of the contract, a 55-year-old patrol officer with 30 years under his belt will be entitled to a $109,000-a-year pension -- plus, in all likelihood, an additional 3 percent cost-of-living increase every year for the rest of the officer's life.the $109,000 in todays dollars 20 years from now with historical inflation has the buying power of around $50,000. Not a great salary today or retiremant tomorrow. worth only $40,000 in 30 years. :iamwithstupid:
3rd...LEO LEGALLY have NO OBLIGATION to protect anyone. :helpsmilie: Yet feel they have the right to viloate the 4th amendment regularly. read warren v. District of Columbia.

I'd sue the APD for violation of your 4th amendment rights. Call the ACLU they'll help. Also, it's funny to note they wouldn't know an illegal AR if it shot them...I have a NEW Stag AR-15 model 4, CA legal. I also have from 20+ years 20 & 30 round pre-ban magazines. I called the DOJ before ordering just to make sure what I was doing was legal. I'm still waiting for some ignorant LEO to confiscate my weapon saying it was not. I'll have a Hey Day.

Finally, I wouldn't put my life on the line for a measley $100,000 I'm worth more than that. Many LEO's do it because of the power and controll. They get off on it. I was at the LAPD Commissionser meeting on Tuesday and did you know 16% have sopusal/Domestic abuse issues? :shrug: Talk about having issues?

[proraptor]

We didnt allow any LEO into our apartment....They pushed the door open and came in... :90:

[Phil Bole]

If an officer has a "visual" on a suspected AW, isn't that PC to search/enter
a house??
"the officer has reason to believe that the weapon may be illegal..."
"officer could not tell if it had a bullet button"
Etc.
Type deal???

I have issues with cops taking my money and saying it's drug money
NO conviction
No charges
No evidence
No nothing
Yet they still are holding my money
Now I have to prove it is not drug money
It's a bunch of BS
I'll post the story when I'm "in the clear"
It's basically extortion
Other than that I like cops in general.................

P.S.
I don't care what the situation was I would have told that cop to "get the F@#k off my couch!!!"
:D

[bwiese]

If an officer has a "visual" on a suspected AW, isn't that PC to search/enter a house?? "the officer has reason to believe that the weapon may be illegal..."
"officer could not tell if it had a bullet button"
Etc. Type deal???

If there is not an emergency/exigency situation the cop should run the name/address on computer and find out if there's reg'd AWs. If a person has a reg'd AW at his home there's no different treatment for it than any other long gun. The fact it's scary and black or green should make zero difference.

[glockman19]

We didnt allow any LEO into our apartment....They pushed the door open and came in...

You should have asked them to leave and come back when they had a search warant.

If an officer has a "visual" on a suspected AW, isn't that PC to search/enter a house??
NO
But as legislators slowly erode our 2A rights this will become more common.

[hoffmang]

The house is the one place where the 4th Amendment does still have some serious teeth. The answer is no - an officer seeing firearms - even ones that "look" illegal - doesn't get exigent circumstances to enter. He'd have to have the guns pointed at him to get to that level.

-Gene

[Yankee Clipper]

I'd sue the APD for violation of your 4th amendment rights. Call the ACLU they'll help. Also, it's funny to note they wouldn't know an illegal AR if it shot them.
When was the last time the ACLU helped out when firearms were involved?

[glockman19]

The ACLU will support the 4th amendment violation, regardless whether a firearm is at issue.

[proraptor]

You should have asked them to leave and come back when they had a search warant.




Kind of hard to do when they pushed my 100 pound wet girlfriend out of the way and started pointing guns at people....:rolleyes:

[artherd]

If an officer has a "visual" on a suspected AW, isn't that PC to search/enter
a house??
"the officer has reason to believe that the weapon may be illegal..."
"officer could not tell if it had a bullet button"
:D

NO, a visual of a 'scary looking' gun, that may or may not be legal, does not constitute Probable Cause that an illegal act is occurring.

[Cpl_Peters]

Kind of hard to do when they pushed my 100 pound wet girlfriend out of the way and started pointing guns at people....:rolleyes:

I was there....everyone says how they wouldnt let police in without consent yada yada yada, but when they push in the door, point a glock at your face, and throw anyone standing on the floor its hard to reason with anyone at that point.

Lesson learned..know your gun laws and keep them legally configured. It all ended well considering the stress it caused everyone. I'm over it. The first responding officers were just overzealous and probably inexperienced. Its unfortunate but it happens. No guns were taken, and no wrongful arrests were made.


...i was the one educating them about muzzle awarness

[Piper]

This doesn't justify their actions, but, if they received a 415 call (disturbing the peace), that could justify their reason for being there. However, depending on where your bedroom window is, it may not permit them to look into that window. There is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the law and so if they couldn't see you based on what a reasonable and prudent person would do under similar circumstances, looking into that window may be unreasonable.

The only other reason I could see for them looking in a window would be if they received a complaint that someone was yelling and threatening to kill someone else, then it becomes an officer safety issue and it would be reasonable under those circumstances. So, you have to ask yourself, was it reasonable for officers to look in that window under those circumstances and 2, if you were that officer, is it reasonable that you would have formed the same opinion that a crime was in progress?

Just thought I would throw some of my two cents into the mix.

[M. Sage]

Without a warrant they need some really strong PC to force their way in like that... Not just guns visible, but guns aimed at someone's head.

...i was the one educating them about muzzle awarness

"Quit pointing that **** thing at me, officer!" :eek:

[Piper]

Again, what is considered reasonable is Probable cause enough. If it's reasonable that police could see his AR15 through the window and without any extraordinary means and if he has reason to believe a crime is being commited, he can investigate further. In fact if a peace officer has reason to believe a felony is being commited, he can actually make an arrest whether or not a felony has in fact been commited (836 P.C.). And if it turns out that the person arrested in fact didn't commit a crime, he can be realeased per 849(b) which simply makes the arrest a detention only. It's not exactly what I would do. But then again I overlooked alot of bogus gunlaws and just screwed with the real badguys.

[proraptor]

Again, what is considered reasonable is Probable cause enough. If it's reasonable that police could see his AR15 through the window and without any extraordinary means and if he has reason to believe a crime is being commited, he can investigate further. In fact if a peace officer has reason to believe a felony is being commited, he can actually make an arrest whether or not a felony has in fact been commited (836 P.C.). And if it turns out that the person arrested in fact didn't commit a crime, he can be realeased per 849(b) which simply makes the arrest a detention only. It's not exactly what I would do. But then again I overlooked alot of bogus gunlaws and just screwed with the real badguys.

The NRA lawyers said they had no right to come into my apartment....My dad was also pissed because he didnt think they should have been in there either

[Piper]

And that's why we have courts.

Like I said, it's not what I would have done, but then again, I knew some people who except for the fact that they carried concealed without a CCW, they were very law-abiding. So I overlooked minor things like that and went after the real badguys.

I'm glad that everything turned out well for you.

[sunborder]

Again, what is considered reasonable is Probable cause enough. If it's reasonable that police could see his AR15 through the window and without any extraordinary means and if he has reason to believe a crime is being commited, he can investigate further. In fact if a peace officer has reason to believe a felony is being commited, he can actually make an arrest whether or not a felony has in fact been commited (836 P.C.). And if it turns out that the person arrested in fact didn't commit a crime, he can be realeased per 849(b) which simply makes the arrest a detention only. It's not exactly what I would do. But then again I overlooked alot of bogus gunlaws and just screwed with the real badguys.

Seeing something that MIGHT be a felony by peeking in a window w/o PC is not the same thing as arresting someone for possibly commiting a felony. Example: Hey, your wallet is pretty thick. Let me pull it out and see if those are $100 bills. Yep. They are. Maybe you got this money from a drug deal..... vs. someone holding a loaded & fired gun over a dead body. Maybe the corpse was the result of self-defense, maybe not. Seeing something that LOOKS like it might be illegal, but could easily be something that isn't, when you have no right to be looking at it in the first case is NOT PC. Also, making an arrest and invading a home w/o a warrant or PC are NOT the same thing.

[Stormfeather]

. . . . .It was a regular Christmas party but everyone had to show up in an ugly Christmas sweater not to mention everyone had to bring a funny gift for a gift exchange, and a bottle of alcohol or beer.

The night of the party and all of our friends show up in the ugliest, most hideous sweaters ever known to man, we looked like a bunch of dorks. We had way too many people show up (more than we invited) but everyone was ok and we had no problems. . .

:biggrinjester: Can I get an invite to the next one, this sounds like a blast! Ugly sweaters, beer and guns. . . . . . how can you go wrong?!?!?!? :party:

[glockman19]

Can I get an invite to the next one, this sounds like a blast! Ugly sweaters, beer and guns. . . . . . how can you go wrong?!?!?!?

YES I'll come and I'll be happy to ask them to please leave and come back when they have a warant. Breaking up a civil christmas party is uncool. :cool:
Watch teh following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

[Piper]

Seeing something that MIGHT be a felony by peeking in a window w/o PC is not the same thing as arresting someone for possibly commiting a felony. Example: Hey, your wallet is pretty thick. Let me pull it out and see if those are $100 bills. Yep. They are. Maybe you got this money from a drug deal..... vs. someone holding a loaded & fired gun over a dead body. Maybe the corpse was the result of self-defense, maybe not. Seeing something that LOOKS like it might be illegal, but could easily be something that isn't, when you have no right to be looking at it in the first case is NOT PC. Also, making an arrest and invading a home w/o a warrant or PC are NOT the same thing.

Hm, let me try this again. As I understand the incident, it was at night. If the cop responded to a call and had a legitimate reason to be there, and walked by a window that was open and the interior was visible from the outside without taking any extraordinary measures to look inside, and saw what appeared to be a crime in progress, he can investigate further. It's not illegal to have money, but as much as I think it's a total infringement on our second amendment rights, it is illegal to possess certain firearms. If it's in plain view it's fair game. If the cops had to take extraordinary steps to "peak" into a window, then it is a violation. So my question is simply, was the window open and located near the door for anyone to look in without any effort?

I think what the cops did was absolutely over the top. And I would have been taking names and filing a formal complaint for the treatment that my guests and I received, but I'm trying to look at this as objective as possible and see this from both sides. But I think I've said enough about this, so I'm going to crawl back into the cyber woodwork now.

[proraptor]

Hm, let me try this again. As I understand the incident, it was at night. If the cop responded to a call and had a legitimate reason to be there, and walked by a window that was open and the interior was visible from the outside without taking any extraordinary measures to look inside, and saw what appeared to be a crime in progress, he can investigate further. It's not illegal to have money, but as much as I think it's a total infringement on our second amendment rights, it is illegal to possess certain firearms. If it's in plain view it's fair game. If the cops had to take extraordinary steps to "peak" into a window, then it is a violation. So my question is simply, was the window open and located near the door for anyone to look in without any effort?

I think what the cops did was absolutely over the top. And I would have been taking names and filing a formal complaint for the treatment that my guests and I received, but I'm trying to look at this as objective as possible and see this from both sides. But I think I've said enough about this, so I'm going to crawl back into the cyber woodwork now.

The michel lawyer said I could be sitting there with any of my guns and they still had no right to enter my dwelling.....Now if they saw me pointing my gun at someone then it would have been a different story....

As for the people that want to come to the next party sorry...I dont think me and my girlfriend will have another one....The management of our apartments said the first time is ok but dont get the cops called again or we will start running into problems...

I do however throw the best new years party ever (at a different location) PM me if you want to come....

[E Pluribus Unum]

He hands me back my license and asks if he can enter my apartment to look around. I then say you might as well cause all the officers in their never were given the consent to search and are in there unlawfully.

That gave HIM consent to search so it would have hung you had you been illegal in any way. If you stay steadfast with your determination that no one is to have permission to search your house they could find a dead body in the closet and it would be inadmissable.

This happened the way it did because of your uncle. If you had not been related to a cop you probably would have been "detained" and or your guns taken for no less than 30 days while the legality was affirmed.

Lesson learned, I am sure.

[Paul]

Wow, it's like there's not hundreds of thousands of legally registered pre-2000 AR's in the state. Wow.

[glockman19]

Maybe we should all have a "Black Gun Party"? Everyone should bring all of their black guns, Glocks, AR's, M1A's every black gun that's legally owned.

Like a tupperware party.

[69Mach1]

Glad everything worked out in the end.

Where
Was
The
A
C
L
U
?

[Yankee Clipper]

Glad everything worked out in the end.

Where
Was
The
A
C
L
U
?

glockman19
You want to answer that for him??