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View Full Version : The Bath, Michigan School Massacre


Kappy
07-24-2012, 8:48 PM
I think this needs to be a major tool in our anti-2A-fixing toolbox. So much so, that I'm actually going to give it its own thread.

I ran across this by accident and have never seen it again in research. Most of the time when you look up "school shootings" or the like, you get Virginia Tech, Columbine, etc. you won't find a mention of it. Why? Because shootings are the only thing on the media's plate. It's like they think such disasters are sexy.

In 1927, a school board treasurer became enraged at some taxes which would possibly hurt his farm. He flipped and decided to get even... or something. In the end, he would kill 38 children, two teachers, and four first-responders.

His method? He dynamited the school. When people showed up to help, he drove his truck up and blew it up again, killing himself, more children, and more adults.

Banning firearms will not solve our problems. You don't need a gun to commit mass murder. There is something really broken in us. What is it? I'm not sure. Perhaps it is our confrontational and stressful society. One thing I'm pretty sure of? It isn't the ownership of firearms. If it were, we'd have had these mass shootings since semi-automatic firearms had been first made available, over 100 years ago.

Librarian
07-24-2012, 9:11 PM
Yale U has a group called the Cultural Cognition Project - http://www.culturalcognition.net/.
The Cultural Cognition Project is a group of scholars interested in studying how cultural values shape public risk perceptions and related policy beliefs. Cultural cognition refers to the tendency of individuals to conform their beliefs about disputed matters of fact (e.g., whether global warming is a serious threat; whether the death penalty deters murder; whether gun control makes society more safe or less) to values that define their cultural identities.
There are people one just cannot reach with facts.

See, in particular, More Statistics, Less Persuasion: A Cultural Theory of Gun-Risk Perceptions, from SSRN (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=286205).

My karate sensei lives in (just outside) Bath.

misterjake
07-24-2012, 9:14 PM
An anti gunner would say since dynamite is heavily regulated it hasn't been used since. They will link regulation with safety.




I think this needs to be a major tool in our anti-2A-fixing toolbox. So much so, that I'm actually going to give it its own thread.

I ran across this by accident and have never seen it again in research. Most of the time when you look up "school shootings" or the like, you get Virginia Tech, Columbine, etc. you won't find a mention of it. Why? Because shootings are the only thing on the media's plate. It's like they think such disasters are sexy.

In 1927, a school board treasurer became enraged at some taxes which would possibly hurt his farm. He flipped and decided to get even... or something. In the end, he would kill 38 children, two teachers, and four first-responders.

His method? He dynamited the school. When people showed up to help, he drove his truck up and blew it up again, killing himself, more children, and more adults.

Banning firearms will not solve our problems. You don't need a gun to commit mass murder. There is something really broken in us. What is it? I'm not sure. Perhaps it is our confrontational and stressful society. One thing I'm pretty sure of? It isn't the ownership of firearms. If it were, we'd have had these mass shootings since semi-automatic firearms had been first made available, over 100 years ago.

Schlyme
07-24-2012, 9:20 PM
An anti gunner would say since dynamite is heavily regulated it hasn't been used since. They will link regulation with safety.

Instead they would use amfo like McVay and his buddy.

drdarkness
07-24-2012, 9:26 PM
Timothy Mcveigh didn't use a gun either,killed a hell of a lot more then 12 with fertilizer.

Kappy
07-24-2012, 9:29 PM
Anyone who watched Fight Club or is a fan of Burn Notice knows you can make all kinds of interesting things out of commonly acquired items. While these fictional sources don't really explain it, and I'm sure it's not easy to do, you can find all the knowledge you want on the internet.

Werewolf1021
07-24-2012, 9:30 PM
I think this needs to be a major tool in our anti-2A-fixing toolbox. So much so, that I'm actually going to give it its own thread.

I ran across this by accident and have never seen it again in research. Most of the time when you look up "school shootings" or the like, you get Virginia Tech, Columbine, etc. you won't find a mention of it. Why? Because shootings are the only thing on the media's plate. It's like they think such disasters are sexy.

In 1927, a school board treasurer became enraged at some taxes which would possibly hurt his farm. He flipped and decided to get even... or something. In the end, he would kill 38 children, two teachers, and four first-responders.

His method? He dynamited the school. When people showed up to help, he drove his truck up and blew it up again, killing himself, more children, and more adults.

Banning firearms will not solve our problems. You don't need a gun to commit mass murder. There is something really broken in us. What is it? I'm not sure. Perhaps it is our confrontational and stressful society. One thing I'm pretty sure of? It isn't the ownership of firearms. If it were, we'd have had these mass shootings since semi-automatic firearms had been first made available, over 100 years ago.

Don't forget Oklahoma City Bombing, LA times bombing, and the Wall Street bombing. All these killed over 20 people.

However, I have found that people find guns to be polarizing. Even though bombings clearly kill more people when they are used, people have the attitude of "No ones going to bomb anyone" or "No one can make bombs :rolleyes: ".

Some people would rather remain willfully ignorant.

Don't let it get your blood pressure up.

Werewolf1021
07-24-2012, 9:36 PM
Anyone who watched Fight Club or is a fan of Burn Notice knows you can make all kinds of interesting things out of commonly acquired items.

True. People don't realize how easy (and dangerous) it can be. Gasoline and styrofoam makes napalm. Anyone with a background in chemistry can make almost anything with commonly available, non regulated items.

choprzrul
07-24-2012, 10:11 PM
What material did Bill Ayers use to bomb the pentagon?

.

jerryg1776
07-24-2012, 10:14 PM
What material did Bill Ayers use to bomb the pentagon?

.

I dunno what he used then but he obama'd the USA in 2008... That should be an act of treason in itself.

Bad joke .... Sorry

misterjake
07-25-2012, 12:00 AM
Instead they would use amfo like McVay and his buddy.

Doesn't matter, they just call for regulation on fertilizer too....

ChuckBooty
07-25-2012, 1:38 AM
Probably a LITTLE harder to get dynamite in 2012 then it was in 1927. Wasn't heroin still legal then too?

Merc1138
07-25-2012, 2:25 AM
Probably a LITTLE harder to get dynamite in 2012 then it was in 1927. Wasn't heroin still legal then too?

http://riveraveblues.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/miss-the-point2.jpg

choprzrul
07-25-2012, 1:48 PM
This occured to me earlier: In 1927 the Thompson submachinegun was available off the shelf in your local hardware store. Completely unregulated and accessible to everyone. Yet, this individual bypassed the fully auto Thompson + 100 round drums in favor of something else.

.

POLICESTATE
07-25-2012, 1:55 PM
People who go on a shooting rampage still pale in comparison to serial killers. It's just they are flashier and they kill a group of people in a very short period of time. Serial killers are a greater danger to society than someone snapping in a mall, and they very rarely use guns.

Serial killers and bombers, those are the ones that pose the greatest risk. There has to be an angle in there. If laws against the types of activities that serial killers engage in are ineffective then similar laws against illegal gun activities will also be just as ineffective.

The problem lies with the individual responsible and how we deal with them when they are caught.

More and more I feel that America enables the behavior of these people by being soft on them, even making excuses for their behavior. You need look no further than how we handle child molesters to see how that works.

I also feel like the plea bargaining practices have really perverted the course of justice, something that once was useful for exceptions, now becomes the rule, for the sake of convenience really rather than in the interests of justice.

meaty-btz
07-25-2012, 2:02 PM
This occured to me earlier: In 1927 the Thompson submachinegun was available off the shelf in your local hardware store. Completely unregulated and accessible to everyone. Yet, this individual bypassed the fully auto Thompson + 100 round drums in favor of something else.

.

The reality is the full auto thomson SMG was a jam-o-matic, especially with the 100 round drum (not unlike what our modern AR + drum that the Colorado Shooter Encountered.. large capacity non-belt fed is and always probably will be unreliable).

The gun was "used" to front gun control when in reality there was only one major incident of "mass murder" using the weapon.. even in the drive bys they were used in were not "effective". Movies make them look like they can work perfectly.. and they do pretty well with a 30rounder but the drum was prone to major stopages and jams.

Explosives make a much better tool of mass death, so do biologics, and chemical weapons.