PDA

View Full Version : Counter attack suggestions for our side.


nicki
07-24-2012, 1:28 AM
Watching various talk shows, our side is getting "academic" and the other side is getting "emotional". That means we LOSE.

Watching the shows, I thought how I would argue to the questions. So here are my arguments, I hope that these are ones all of you can use.

Anti gun comment, We need to ban assault weapons, no one needs this 100 round magazines, etc etc etc,

My response: We already have a Black Market in real military type arms, under your proposal that market would explode and instead of maniacs having semi auto versions, they would have full autos.

We banned Heroin and Cocaine, we not only got a black market for those drugs, but the black market created meth, crack, and synthetic new horrible drugs like Krokadile.

Do you really want criminals armed with untraceable full auto Mac 10s, AK47s because that will be the end result of YOUR GUN BAN.

Alcohol prohibition failed, the drug war is on ongoing 1 trillion dollar per year disaster and you want to create another black market opportunity, are you ****ing nuts!

Follow up with:

The real problem is these mass murderers are emotionally disturbed sociopaths who see themselves as losers who feel insignificant in their lives and the way they get attention and significance is through violence because they know that if they go on a mass shooting, that everyone will know who they are, they will impact everyone, that is why they have that stupid **** eating grin on their mugshots, they are playing the media and the media goes along.

Wanna cut these murders, give these guys NO attention, don't show their faces, don't report their names, don't report any manifestos, treat them as terrorists and ship them off to GITMO.

The other side is not nice, they lie, we can't reason with them, so what we need to do is be ready to bury them.

Our side needs to step up with an alternative solution to mass shooters and here are some of the things I would do.

1. Treat mass killings as acts of terrorism, I want someone like this guy sent to GITMO and I want him dealt with swiftly. Due to state's rights issues, states would have to consent, but something tells me this won't be an issue.

Perhaps some kind of agreement with the states for all the legal eagles here could be worked out to avoid "Constitutional issues".

2. I believe in the 1st amendment, but with rights come responsibilities. Since we know many of these mass shooters want media exposure, the responsible action is not to give it to them. They can report the story and make him an XX, no one has to know who he is, why he did it, etc. etc. Keep him a nobody.

I seriously think we need to consider suspending/revoking FCC licenses of radio/TV stations that won't be responsible. The people who will cry about this have no issue with infringing on our 2nd amendment rights.

3. Obviously crazy people are desperate and we will continue to have problems until we fix our country's economy. As a people, many of us are beaten down, to many people have lost hope, they have lost their dreams, their purpose and that breeds anger and violence.

We can turn our country around, but it will require real change. The solutions will come from the American People, not from the Government.

Government is not the solution, it is the problem and many of the solutions are simple, get the government out of our lives where it really has no business being and our country will quickly heal itself.

We are not going to get Jobs if we strangle Businesses with red tape and have tax burdens so high that we kill the tax base.

Anyway, I hope this gives you guys some different spin on what to say to family and friends, especially those who may be left of center.;)

Nicki

stix213
07-24-2012, 1:39 AM
I like where you are going, but you need to trim down your message. People who don't already agree with you will tune out by the time you have gone even 1/3 into your points.

stix213
07-24-2012, 1:44 AM
Maybe hit them with these emotional ones:

1) Guns murder people like spoons make you fat

Or maybe better stated:

Banning guns to fight crime is like banning spoons to fight obesity

2) Cars kill more people than guns, even including suicides and criminals shot by officers which you are unlikely to be at risk for, so if you want to ban guns but you aren't frightened every time you walk down the sidewalk when a car passes, you are a hypocrite

3) The high capacity mag in the gun that shot Gabby Giffords caused his gun to jam. The high capacity mag in the "Joker's" AR-15 caused his gun to jam (according to early reports). Both of those jams ended up saving lives, and they probably didn't have extras cause they thought they wouldn't need them. If anything we should be handing out these jam prone high caps on the streets to these idiot criminals - who knows how many lives could be saved....

Just think about how many more people would have died if he brought a stack of 10 rounders to swap out with instead of being stuck with the failed high cap mag. I wonder if he would have opened fire on police if he didn't use that failed high cap mag?

Demonicspire
07-24-2012, 2:17 AM
Here's one. Wait two weeks and no one will care anymore. The political landscape is too unstable due to the pending election for anyone to leverage it in either direction.

It takes 2 people to argue; don't supply the second party.

nicki
07-24-2012, 5:00 AM
Here's one. Wait two weeks and no one will care anymore. The political landscape is too unstable due to the pending election for anyone to leverage it in either direction.

It takes 2 people to argue; don't supply the second party.

When mass shootings happened in Australia and England, gun owners in those countries stood back out of respect for the dead.

The anti gunners had legislation ready to go and they fueled the public to outlaw most guns in those countries.

Here in California we were blindsided in 1989 with the Roberti Roos bill, the first AW bill which led to the 1994 Fed AW ban.

We have to counter attack not only on the "AW" issue, but the "gun free zone" that the theater created that left the theater goers sitting ducks.

I find it outrageous that he went out a fire door, left the door jammed so that he could come back in and the theater didn't know it.

Considering that prying open the fire door is a way people used to sneek into movies without paying for them, you would think theaters would closely monitor those doors, perhaps have alarms on them.

Just saying I could see a negligence suit against the theater.

Nicki

CDFingers
07-24-2012, 6:07 AM
"Criminals don't obey laws."

CDFingers

mag360
07-24-2012, 6:12 AM
Nicki that last point on the security issues is a good one. Read an interview with a security expert and he said they ahould have had alarms going off at their security booth that the door was propped open. Stupid not to have that.

donw
07-24-2012, 7:31 AM
firstly...the differences in our "AR's and AK's" and full on military M16's and AK's should be graphically demonstrated and explained with emphasis that civilian/citizen access to SEMI-auto has been around for over a century.

for the biggest part, when trying to explain/demonstrate the differences, it is the classic "Casting your pearls before swine" reaction simply because of the APPEARANCE of an AR/AK...they APPEAR to be MILITARY. most NON-shooter/gun owners are NOT aware of the versatility and unique platform these designs offer for the casual shooter or hunter, even they are of military origin...furthermore...they don't care.

in the general, every day, Joe-six-pak world, an AR/AK represents GOOD vs TERRORISM...the M16 represents the good guys...the AK...the bad guys.

i'd venture a guess that 95% of them (The anti's) out there have never been in a situation where they faced either one of them in a combat/LE situation and their opinions are formed from Hollywood movies...NOT reality.

what was said earlier, is THE EMOTIONAL FACTOR, Aurora, columbine, VA tech were human tragedies perpetrated by a person, or persons, who "went off the deep end". the tools they selected became the objects of that EMOTIONAL response. you and i are cognizant of that, but try to rationalize with the relatives and friends of the victims.

secondly...one of the keys to success is to "Pick the time and place" to fight your battle.

is this the right time?

where is the right place? the place has to be in the news media; it's well known that most media is NOT gun/gun issues friendly. focus has to be on the PLUS factors of gun ownership and the LEGAL rights affirmed by the states and federal govts.

it is my belief that focus will be turned to ALL semi-autos in the near future.

you and i are aware that mass shootings are NOT unique to here and now...the average legislator does NOT care about facts...they respond to EMOTION.

thirdly...i think an 'attack' of the abuse by, and from, legislation should be high-lighted by showing some of the insane laws (and proposed laws) here that have no base in fact or reality...such as the ten day waiting period.

the recent popularity of the AR/AK in the civilian/citizen community, may be it's own undoing...simply due to it's APPEARANCE. as an example: the M1 Carbine, M1 Garand and M1A are still very popular amongst shooters/hunters and they're not any where near as demonized, nor do they have the APPEARANCE, as an AR/AK, yet we all know their capabilities.

fourthly...we NEED organization! as an individual...you're "shoveling s*#! against the tide"...the news media has a way of cutting up individuals and having them for lunch when it comes to gun rights and ownership: join the NRA, CRPA any, and all, pro-gun organization to add to their resources to "Fight the good fight"

well...i guess i'd better get back on to decaf coffee...

Wherryj
07-24-2012, 7:32 AM
Maybe hit them with these emotional ones:

1) Guns murder people like spoons make you fat

Or maybe better stated:

Banning guns to fight crime is like banning spoons to fight obesity

2) Cars kill more people than guns, even including suicides and criminals shot by officers which you are unlikely to be at risk for, so if you want to ban guns but you aren't frightened every time you walk down the sidewalk when a car passes, you are a hypocrite

3) The high capacity mag in the gun that shot Gabby Giffords caused his gun to jam. The high capacity mag in the "Joker's" AR-15 caused his gun to jam (according to early reports). Both of those jams ended up saving lives, and they probably didn't have extras cause they thought they wouldn't need them. If anything we should be handing out these jam prone high caps on the streets to these idiot criminals - who knows how many lives could be saved....

Just think about how many more people would have died if he brought a stack of 10 rounders to swap out with instead of being stuck with the failed high cap mag. I wonder if he would have opened fire on police if he didn't use that failed high cap mag?

Don't try this one. That *****hat Bloomberg is trying to ban soft drinks BECAUSE THEY make you fat. The soft drink doesn't make you fat-it is your own gluttony for drinking 3 gallons a day.

Once again, blame the item for the personal failure. If you use this analogy, our government of elites WILL decide that they need to ban firearms. They have already decided to start banning ANYTHING that MIGHT harm you, after all THEY know better than you.

Jack L
07-24-2012, 8:49 AM
Nothing will be passed anytime soon. .

One thing that's weird to me relating to these so called anti gun people is that they choose to ignore the never ending murders by gangsters and outlaws every night which make up the vast majority of gun crime. None of their new anti gun and gun laws target those who are doing the killing. They must not care about the real statistics or they would brig these up in discussions. All I hear is misstatements by uneducated and uninformed anti firearm talking heads. Criminals do not even know what the gun laws are since gun laws have nothing to do with the stock and trade. Politicians seem to travel *** backwards when they get emotional.

creekside
07-24-2012, 11:56 AM
Nicki that last point on the security issues is a good one. Read an interview with a security expert and he said they ahould have had alarms going off at their security booth that the door was propped open. Stupid not to have that.

A decent perimeter alarm system costs money.

mrrsquared79
07-24-2012, 12:17 PM
firstly...the differences in our "AR's and AK's" and full on military M16's and AK's should be graphically demonstrated and explained with emphasis that civilian/citizen access to SEMI-auto has been around for over a century.

for the biggest part, when trying to explain/demonstrate the differences, it is the classic "Casting your pearls before swine" reaction simply because of the APPEARANCE of an AR/AK...they APPEAR to be MILITARY. most NON-shooter/gun owners are NOT aware of the versatility and unique platform these designs offer for the casual shooter or hunter, even they are of military origin...furthermore...they don't care.

in the general, every day, Joe-six-pak world, an AR/AK represents GOOD vs TERRORISM...the M16 represents the good guys...the AK...the bad guys.

i'd venture a guess that 95% of them (The anti's) out there have never been in a situation where they faced either one of them in a combat/LE situation and their opinions are formed from Hollywood movies...NOT reality.

what was said earlier, is THE EMOTIONAL FACTOR, Aurora, columbine, VA tech were human tragedies perpetrated by a person, or persons, who "went off the deep end". the tools they selected became the objects of that EMOTIONAL response. you and i are cognizant of that, but try to rationalize with the relatives and friends of the victims.

secondly...one of the keys to success is to "Pick the time and place" to fight your battle.

is this the right time?

where is the right place? the place has to be in the news media; it's well known that most media is NOT gun/gun issues friendly. focus has to be on the PLUS factors of gun ownership and the LEGAL rights affirmed by the states and federal govts.

it is my belief that focus will be turned to ALL semi-autos in the near future.

you and i are aware that mass shootings are NOT unique to here and now...the average legislator does NOT care about facts...they respond to EMOTION.

thirdly...i think an 'attack' of the abuse by, and from, legislation should be high-lighted by showing some of the insane laws (and proposed laws) here that have no base in fact or reality...such as the ten day waiting period.

the recent popularity of the AR/AK in the civilian/citizen community, may be it's own undoing...simply due to it's APPEARANCE. as an example: the M1 Carbine, M1 Garand and M1A are still very popular amongst shooters/hunters and they're not any where near as demonized, nor do they have the APPEARANCE, as an AR/AK, yet we all know their capabilities.

fourthly...we NEED organization! as an individual...you're "shoveling s*#! against the tide"...the news media has a way of cutting up individuals and having them for lunch when it comes to gun rights and ownership: join the NRA, CRPA any, and all, pro-gun organization to add to their resources to "Fight the good fight"

well...i guess i'd better get back on to decaf coffee...

I think this is what you are looking for.

ysf8x477c30

mmayer707
07-24-2012, 12:33 PM
^^ this video needs to be watched by the gun grabbers. Now, how to get them to watch it......

mrrsquared79
07-24-2012, 12:44 PM
^^ this video needs to be watched by the gun grabbers. Now, how to get them to watch it......

Social media(Facebook/Twitter/etc.) unfortunately is the playing field in which we must engage the enemy.

Dreaded Claymore
07-24-2012, 1:55 PM
I think this is what you are looking for. [Video follows.]

Yes, this is the droid video you are looking for. (I was going to post this, thanks for beating me to it.)

mmayer707
07-24-2012, 2:12 PM
Social media(Facebook/Twitter/etc.) unfortunately is the playing field in which we must engage the enemy.

Posted to my Facebook. I got a bit over 200 friends and I can assure you some are quite liberal. Can't hurt, right? :chris:

nick
07-24-2012, 2:31 PM
"For how long are we going to allow these shootings to go on unchallenged and uninterrupted?! Criminal safe/disarmed victim zones invite crime and cost lives!" Something to that tune.

mrrsquared79
07-24-2012, 2:43 PM
Posted to my Facebook. I got a bit over 200 friends and I can assure you some are quite liberal. Can't hurt, right? :chris:

What I can tell you that some will either ignore your posts or delete you...if this happens to you, I don't know if this will bother you or not.

I usually repost the daily posts from http://www.gunssavelives.net/ on Facebook where this site tries to keep an aggregate of the daily occurrences in which a firearm is used to save a life and the mainstream drive by media blatantly ignores it.

I had a 'friend' ignore me and my news feed because he said he couldn't take any more shootings...I retorted that I didn't realize the reposts from gunssavelives.net were not a good demonstration making it clear to him how important his civil rights are. I then asked him if he could think of a better way for me to illustrate how important our civil rights are. I am still waiting for an answer months later! :43: