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SparkYZ
07-23-2012, 6:03 PM
Ok guys, having a chat with a fellow AR enthusiast, I told him what I commonly hear over here on CGF, regarding pre-ban high cap mags. He wants article numbers from CA Penal code, so he can print them, then he will feel comfortable bringing out his 30 rounders. Here's two things:

"Burden of proof is on the LEO"- In regards that the LEO has to prove the mags were not obtained after 2000 . He has Army issue 30's.What code? Or what article was interpreted that way

"If you legally own a hi-cap, you can loan it out to someone at the range, as long as you are there" Code?

Anything else relevant?

Connor P Price
07-23-2012, 6:12 PM
Penal code 12020 talks about large capacity ammunition feeding devices. Although the recent renumbering may have changed that number.

Relevant information can be found on the Calguns Wiki here - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

With regard to the burden of proof being on the LEO, that isn't in the statute specifically, it's the way that criminal law works in general. The burden of proof is always on the state to prove that the accused committed the crimes they've been accused of.

You will find no code stating that you can loan a large capacity ammunition feeding device to someone at the range as long as you are there. Not because it isn't legal, but because the law just doesn't work that way. The law states what you can't do, not what you can. It is legal not because the law explicitly states that its legal, but instead because the law never explicitly states that its illegal.

ETA: Additional information provided by Librarian can be found in this thread. All written in an easy to understand manner rather than the complicated legalese found in statutes. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

SparkYZ
07-23-2012, 6:15 PM
Ok, lets make this easier. He has hi caps. We both volunteer at a military explorer program (giving kids leadership, using military training to make them leaders and responsible). We try to conduct our training as accurate as possible. We take them shooting, and have them qualify and shoot Army standard paper targets.

Basically, can he loan his hi-caps to the kids for the day of the shoot (He and I and others will be running the range)

Librarian
07-23-2012, 7:06 PM
Ok, lets make this easier. He has hi caps. We both volunteer at a military explorer program (giving kids leadership, using military training to make them leaders and responsible). We try to conduct our training as accurate as possible. We take them shooting, and have them qualify and shoot Army standard paper targets.

Basically, can he loan his hi-caps to the kids for the day of the shoot (He and I and others will be running the range)

Yes.

PC 32415 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/32415.html): Section 32310 does not apply to the loan of a lawfully
possessed large-capacity magazine between two individuals if all of
the following conditions are met:
(a) The person being loaned the large-capacity magazine is not
prohibited by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 29610), Chapter 2
(commencing with Section 29800), or Chapter 3 (commencing with
Section 29900) of Division 9 of this title or Section 8100 or 8103 of
the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms or
ammunition.
(b) The loan of the large-capacity magazine occurs at a place or
location where the possession of the large-capacity magazine is not
otherwise prohibited, and the person who lends the large-capacity
magazine remains in the accessible vicinity of the person to whom the
large-capacity magazine is loaned.
Don't let them take any home.

strongpoint
07-23-2012, 7:07 PM
as long as they don't go into a maglocked rifle, you should be fine.

dantodd
07-23-2012, 7:31 PM
as long as they don't go into a maglocked rifle, you should be fine.

Cannot be emphasized enough. They MUST be used in a featureless rifle or a registered assault weapon.i am pretty sure that if the kids are under 18 they are statutorially prohibited from even touching a Registered Assault Weapon, mich less firing one.

Librarian
07-23-2012, 9:32 PM
Cannot be emphasized enough. They MUST be used in a featureless rifle or a registered assault weapon.i am pretty sure that if the kids are under 18 they are statutorially prohibited from even touching a Registered Assault Weapon, mich less firing one.

Oh, yes - 18 or older, PC 30660 (a) Section 30600 shall not apply to a person who lawfully
possesses and has registered an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle
pursuant to this chapter who lends that assault weapon or .50 BMG
rifle to another person, if all the following requirements are
satisfied:
(1) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent
is 18 years of age or over and is not prohibited by state or federal
law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(2) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent
remains in the presence of the registered possessor of the assault
weapon or .50 BMG rifle.Which says 'featureless' for most in an Explorer troop. Good catch.

MudCamper
07-23-2012, 11:02 PM
Another document that's good to print out and keep handy is this letter from the DOJ:

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf