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The Virus
07-23-2012, 1:56 PM
http://www.calgunstraining.com/

This made me angry!

I actually sent them an email pointing out the ridiculousness of there "model"
and referenced Firearms safety rule #3

PolishMike
07-23-2012, 2:03 PM
I also don't think "learn knowledge" is correct lol

Coded-Dude
07-23-2012, 2:04 PM
http://capnbeeb.com/SA/Gifs/bhdsafety.gif

Capybara
07-23-2012, 2:14 PM
There are a lot of clowns out there and a lot of suckers who frequent them.

ojisan
07-23-2012, 2:25 PM
Finger on trigger fail.
http://www.siliconknights.net/forums/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

QuarterBoreGunner
07-23-2012, 2:49 PM
We do not teach assault weapons.

wat?

Dantedamean
07-23-2012, 2:50 PM
"we do not teach assault weapons" really? I didn't know assault weapons was something that could be taught, no wonder the antis are freaking out so bad. All you need to do is learn assault weapons and you can kill millions.

frankm
07-23-2012, 2:56 PM
Me thinks the name is too close to this site and the attorneys site. Maybe they need to cease and desist, or at least have a disclaimer, unless there really is an affiliation.

QuarterBoreGunner
07-23-2012, 2:58 PM
There is *no* affiliation and the head janitor has been informed.

Turbinator
07-23-2012, 3:02 PM
Seems like a really small shop - husband and wife team. They appear to be teaching only the most basic of courses. Their site needs a lot of work, for sure.

If there's a silver lining here, at least they're pro-gun.

Turby

blockfort
07-23-2012, 3:04 PM
They also list "testimonies" instead of "testimonials"

blockfort
07-23-2012, 3:07 PM
And one of those testimonies includes this gem:

"[...bla bla] While I will never be a gun enthusiast, I consider the knowledge I gained from this class to be invaluable and the power of feeling in control as I fired the .22 was one of those experiences that define life's moments. [bla bla...]"

Travis590A1
07-23-2012, 3:33 PM
^^^ haha. $50 bucks and a round of beers says that the site operator is a calguns member.

SuperSet
07-23-2012, 3:38 PM
Bet you're right. Where are they headquartered?

XD40SUBBIE
07-23-2012, 3:39 PM
has the real calguns sent a C&D, yet?

XD40SUBBIE
07-23-2012, 3:39 PM
Bet you're right. Where are they headquartered?


Ventura area, Lost Angeles...:)

bloodhawke83
07-23-2012, 3:41 PM
has the real calguns sent a C&D, yet?

Who you think the real culguns is? :screwy:

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

oldsmoboat
07-23-2012, 3:43 PM
nvm

Kestryll
07-23-2012, 4:06 PM
has the real calguns sent a C&D, yet?

I just became aware of it so this has made it to pretty high up on my 'To Do' list.

pieeater
07-23-2012, 4:13 PM
That model is pretty cute!!!!!

sdjoslin
07-23-2012, 4:15 PM
Seems like a really small shop - husband and wife team. They appear to be teaching only the most basic of courses. Their site needs a lot of work, for sure.

If there's a silver lining here, at least they're pro-gun.

Turby

Thank you for your kind words Turbinator .
We are very much PRO Gun

I am sorry the site has offended so many.
It is our goal to take people who have never shot before and introduce them to the BASICS.
We succeed in getting 71 year old grandmas to young women to shoot for the first time.
We give out CRPA, SAF and Michel & As. material and offer NRA memberships.

The website was created using stock photos.
As some of the avatar images on those trashing us, the images have the finger on the trigger.
It is not what we teach and not something I can correct.
However, even the NRA Basic handbook shows a couple of images of this same thing.
While it not being the best visual message. It is not worth judging us over.

We are on the same side, bringing NEW people to Gun ownership and influence those who have never own guns or shot guns before. Giving them a positive experience and hopefully voting for 2nd amendment issues!

BTW: as far as the domain name - I got permission from Kestryll at Calguns before using it.
Mar 25, 2011

Again, Thanks for being open to seeing that we are a positive influence for newbies.

The testimonies (testimonials) are real, so please do not make fun at their wording or positive experience.

SuperSet
07-23-2012, 4:21 PM
I figured that they were stock photos so not a big deal with me. I am concerned with the wording about 'We do not teach battlefield tactics' and 'We do not teach assault weapons'. Tone and intent can be lost on the written word, sometimes, so can you clarify what you meant?

sdjoslin
07-23-2012, 4:32 PM
I figured that they were stock photos so not a big deal with me. I am concerned with the wording about 'We do not teach battlefield tactics' and 'We do not teach assault weapons'. Tone and intent can be lost on the written word, sometimes, so can you clarify what you meant?

I admit it needs better wording (and spell checking). :)
I may not be the best writer and am always open to improvement and suggestions.

Most of our students are first time women who appreciate it being non-threaten to them.
Itís been shared, the "What we DON'T" appeals to them when they were looking for instruction - BUT not wanting to be intimidated.

There is no tone or intent other than making those with apprehensionsí at ease.
Please donít take it as anything but 100% positive.
It may not appeal to knowledgeable veterans. But honestly, it isnít for them.

It fits a gap, promoting to those who want to start were they are at . . .

Whatisthis?
07-23-2012, 4:38 PM
I figured that they were stock photos so not a big deal with me. I am concerned with the wording about 'We do not teach battlefield tactics' and 'We do not teach assault weapons'. Tone and intent can be lost on the written word, sometimes, so can you clarify what you meant?

+1

Yes, the photos bothered me a little. While we are on the topic of the site, the wording of those two phrases bothered me most.

Travis590A1
07-23-2012, 4:45 PM
Somebody owes me $50 bucks and some beer! F.Y.I Sdjoslin "assault" rifles have been illegal since 1986.

RP1911
07-23-2012, 4:52 PM
Why even mention battle tactics etc. since your target audience is first timers.

welchy
07-23-2012, 5:42 PM
BTW: as far as the domain name - I got permission from Kestryll at Calguns before using it.
Mar 25, 2011

If this is true . . .

welchy
07-23-2012, 5:43 PM
. . . then why did Kestryll say this?


I just became aware of it so this has made it to pretty high up on my 'To Do' list.

bloodhawke83
07-23-2012, 5:48 PM
. . . then why did Kestryll say this?

maybe Kestryll forgot if true. :shrug:

jonc
07-23-2012, 6:06 PM
finger on the trigger an ALL picS lol

Travis590A1
07-23-2012, 6:09 PM
IBKLTSD In before kes lays the smack down! Haha

frankm
07-23-2012, 10:51 PM
:popcorn:

MrExel17
07-24-2012, 12:53 AM
finger on the trigger an ALL picS lol

I noticed that too, where to I sign up..NOT!:p

mossy
07-24-2012, 2:33 AM
i want to learn assault weapons though, why wont they teach me assault weapons???

Dutch3
07-24-2012, 4:30 AM
I have always thought anyone promoting a business should attempt to project a professional image. This would likely include making sure that any public signage, web presence, etc., uses proper spelling, grammar and punctuation.

Otherwise, the business image looks pretty unprofessional. People do notice.

Turbinator
07-24-2012, 9:29 AM
I admit it needs better wording (and spell checking). :)
I may not be the best writer and am always open to improvement and suggestions.



First, thanks for responding in this thread despite the swirling hostility - shows a lot of restraint to not stoop and fight back. Kudos to you :)

Second, there are a lot of self-proclaimed spelling and grammar experts here, how about we throw out a challenge - have the members of Calguns help you write better website copy and you implement it? That's a challenge I'd like to see the members take on, if you're up for it. :D

Turby

bohoki
07-24-2012, 12:40 PM
big whoop

sdjoslin
07-24-2012, 12:41 PM
First, thanks for responding in this thread despite the swirling hostility - shows a lot of restraint to not stoop and fight back. Kudos to you :)

Second, there are a lot of self-proclaimed spelling and grammar experts here, how about we throw out a challenge - have the members of Calguns help you write better website copy and you implement it? That's a challenge I'd like to see the members take on, if you're up for it. :D

Turby

Turby, yes
I welcome recommendations!!

Just remember the intended audience is mostly first time women who appreciate it being non-threaten.
THEY have shared, that the website did appealed to THEM.

If THEY like it and it speaks to them, maybe we can get some middle ground

Instead of - "We do not teach assault weapons"
How about - "We do not teach weapons - ONLY firearms."
(Those of you who are NRA instructors know that we are not to use the term weapons).

Suggest away, please
Stan

morfeeis
07-24-2012, 1:04 PM
She needs to re-learn a lesson or two.
http://www.calgunstraining.com/images/california-gun-training_02.jpg

tradecraft
07-24-2012, 1:07 PM
http://www.calgunstraining.com/images/california-gun-training_05.jpg

lol...

em9sredbeam
07-24-2012, 1:24 PM
Alright guys take it easy on them. At least they are trying, maybe a little poorly planned, but trying. Look that SDJOSLIN is working to improve and has a positive attitude. Help them out guys, they are on our side and probably doing more than many of us to bring people over to the dark side.

The "learn knowledge" part really does need to be changed if possible. I have never really been a grammar Nazi, but that one says "redneck" and probably turns inexperienced people away. I would just make that say "learn."

shy 7th
07-24-2012, 1:57 PM
Just my opinion, but:

I think that listing the "We Do Nots" was a good idea. Maybe the wording could be fixed up a little but listing what you don't do can sometimes be just as important as listing what you do do.

In this case particularly, as you mentioned that you cater to females and novices, it is very easy for me to imagine a potential customer being turned off by the idea that they might get dropped into a carbine course like the videos on Youtube/Outdoor Channel. I've been shooting for years and I don't consider myself ready for something like that.

If someone told me "Hey lets go take a rock climbing class". You bet your *** the first thing I'm thinking is Cliffhanger. It would be reassuring if the class said something like "We do not hang you off a cliff on the first day". And I might actually be inclined to take the class.

Kudos on your enterprise.

Rangem4
07-24-2012, 2:16 PM
Why is her finger on the trigger? Is there a threat on the roof?
Maybe they teach another approach, I see they have group and celebrity sessions. The name of their business is very close to this fine establishment.

one*eyed*jack
07-24-2012, 2:20 PM
My guess at your intent:

Gain Knowledge - Have Fun - Be Safe

We do not teach with assault weapons.

sdjoslin
07-24-2012, 2:42 PM
My guess at your intent:

Gain Knowledge - Have Fun - Be Safe

We do not teach with assault weapons.

That is PERFECT!!!!!
Thank you!

Have already made those changes.

Kestryll
07-24-2012, 4:36 PM
I'm on vacation this week so I'm not checking in as regularly as normal.

I had forgotten that we had talked concerning the similarities in the urls last year, he contacted me prior to securing the URL to make sure there wouldn't be a conflict.

sdjoslin
07-24-2012, 5:02 PM
I'm on vacation this week so I'm not checking in as regularly as normal.

I had forgotten that we had talked concerning the similarities in the urls last year, he contacted me prior to securing the URL to make sure there wouldn't be a conflict.

Kestryll, Thank you for clearing that up!

bloodhawke83
07-24-2012, 5:10 PM
maybe Kestryll forgot if true. :shrug:

I saw the future and it came true. :TFH:

bellts
07-24-2012, 6:00 PM
i want to learn assault weapons though, why wont they teach me assault weapons???

assault weapons much money to have and do... I'm I write?

Dutch3
07-24-2012, 6:25 PM
Turby, yes
I welcome recommendations!!


Suggest away, please
Stan

OK,
Main navigation menu on the left; "Personal" is misspelled.

Under "What we DO"; 'We teach in a comfortable Fun environment. Learning Gun handling and how to be Safe'.

Why are "Fun", "Gun" and "Safe" capitalized? In fact, the whole description needs to be cleaned up.

How about something like "We teach in a comfortable, fun environment. Our students learn all aspects of gun safety and the proper handling of firearms in various situations".

Or something like that.

sdjoslin
07-24-2012, 6:56 PM
OK,
Main navigation menu on the left; "Personal" is misspelled.

Under "What we DO"; 'We teach in a comfortable Fun environment. Learning Gun handling and how to be Safe'.

Why are "Fun", "Gun" and "Safe" capitalized? In fact, the whole description needs to be cleaned up.

How about something like "We teach in a comfortable, fun environment. Our students learn all aspects of gun safety and the proper handling of firearms in various situations".

Or something like that.

Thanks for the navigation misspelling.

for What we do, that has been changed thanks to a fellow
Member tryzubconsulting

-We teach safe and proper gun handling in a comfortable and fun environment.
-We build fundamental skills and instill confidence in people of all experience levels, even those that have never touched a gun before.
-We teach safety and responsibility without "attitude".
-We aim to have you walk away from your time with us feeling empowered and confident with your new abilities.
-We can train you to use the gun you have.
-Women Instructors available

SURVIVOR619
07-24-2012, 7:03 PM
I saw the future and it came true. :TFH:

bloodhawke83, what is the future of SB249? PLEASE!!! :43:

XD40SUBBIE
07-25-2012, 8:36 AM
Turby, yes
I welcome recommendations!!

Just remember the intended audience is mostly first time women who appreciate it being non-threaten.
THEY have shared, that the website did appealed to THEM.

If THEY like it and it speaks to them, maybe we can get some middle ground

Instead of - "We do not teach assault weapons"
How about - "We do not teach weapons - ONLY firearms."
(Those of you who are NRA instructors know that we are not to use the term weapons).

Suggest away, please
Stan

How about not talking about what you don't teach and tell more about your curriculum? It's a business, advertising, it can also be used against you in a court of law :) I'm under the impression, unless it is a disclaimer, which should be a link or fine print in some other page - keep your website accurate, simple and positive.

My wooden nickel's worth:
crop the pic of the model with the itchy trigger finger or reshoot and teach her your curriculum, mainly the rule about destroying stuff and the placement of the index finger. I know sex sells and all, but for a "safety, and gun ownership responsibility" training service site, I think hot chicks with eyes and ears, pointing the weapon down range with the proper thumbs forward grip and stance would sell the site better. Sex and Safety! Whoohoo


We teach:

Gun Safety - yada, yada yada
Gun handling for broads:reddevil: kidding, just leave it at gun handling, if dudes want to join, why not?- an instructional course centered on the female shooters ability to properly and safely yada yada yada
Female Concealed Carry - An informative and active class concentrated on the uniqueness and special conditions around the female body and her ability to conceal a firearm and still dress en vogue.
etc..

You can then add the disclaimer or wait for them to call and ask about the home boy pistol grip and the illegal assault weapon training or the Hogan's Alley training, etc. Then you can tell them, "no. but I can teach you how to be a responsible, law abiding citizen and gun owner." the key is to make your phone ring.

Oh, final suggestion for a class to teach with the female shooter as the primary target audience: "How not to nag your husband about spending too much money on his guns and stuff..."

sdjoslin
07-25-2012, 9:28 AM
How about not talking about what you don't teach and tell more about your curriculum? It's a business, advertising, it can also be used against you in a court of law :) I'm under the impression, unless it is a disclaimer, which should be a link or fine print in some other page - keep your website accurate, simple and positive.

My wooden nickel's worth:
crop the pick of the model with the itchy trigger finger or reshoot and teach her your curriculum, mainly the rule about destroying stuff and the placement of the index finger. I know sex sells and all, but for a "safety, and gun ownership responsibility" training service site, I think hot chicks with eyes and ears, pointing the weapon down range with the proper thumbs forward grip and stance would sell the site better. Sex and Safety! Whoohoo


We teach:

Gun Safety - yada, yada yada
Gun handling for broads:reddevil: kidding, just leave it at gun handling, if dudes want to join, why not?- an instructional course centered on the female shooters ability to properly and safely yada yada yada
gun xxxxx - yada yada yada
etc..

You can then add the disclaimer or wait for them to call and ask about the home boy pistol grip and the illegal assault weapon training or the Hogan's Alley training, etc. Then you can tell them, "no. but I can teach you how to be a responsible, law abiding citizen and gun owner." the key is to make your phone ring.

XD40SUBBIE,
I hear what youíre saying and am not sure if you have read some of the post since your last comment.

We have made modifications & corrections due to some wonderful suggestions. Including the area you mentioned.
Also, some of the other members approve of the "We do & We do not".
The feedback from the students is they feel less threatened when they know what they are getting into beforehand.

I do understand the objections to the photo.
However, the image is a stock photo not a model shoot I can re-do.
Tried photoshop-ing, but not successful.
Will keep an eye out for a replacement.

Even the "NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting". The book supplied by NRA for Basic Pistol Course.
The cover is an image of a young, attractive blond woman with her finger on the trigger, looking at a tin can with holes in it.

Obviously, the matter is a minor oversight, NOT a major issue.
Thanks, Stan

NYsteveZ
07-25-2012, 9:35 AM
Stan-Glad to see you have thick skin to take the punches, but I think they are all meant in good taste to help you out. Good luck with your business.
By the way-How in the hell did you get J-Lo to model for you?!

sdjoslin
07-25-2012, 9:38 AM
Oh, final suggestion for a class to teach with the female shooter as the primary target audience: "How not to nag your husband about spending too much money on his guns and stuff..."


XD40SUBBIE,
Have your wife take my course and she will want her own gun.

Funny story

Last year I had a class where 3 female roommates took the class as a birthday present.
THE Next week all three split the cost of a single gun.
The last I heard - they each have their own and have become NRA members and Gun club members.

Sir, My phone does ring.
Even with the typos . . .

wheels
07-25-2012, 10:08 AM
The WHOIS search doesn't show that actual registrant - just somebody who is sitting on the name for them - no real ownership info:



Think you may have just thrown OP's personal info up there, maybe edit the post?

Turby, yes
I welcome recommendations!!

Just remember the intended audience is mostly first time women who appreciate it being non-threaten.
THEY have shared, that the website did appealed to THEM.

If THEY like it and it speaks to them, maybe we can get some middle ground

Instead of - "We do not teach assault weapons"
How about - "We do not teach weapons - ONLY firearms."
(Those of you who are NRA instructors know that we are not to use the term weapons).

Suggest away, please
Stan

Don't forget all the guys around here may help with grammar & spelling but they don't have a clue what women really think, hit the women's forum for advice if that's your "target" demo.

ETA: OP - Title??? Put something that describes the subject.

joemama
07-25-2012, 10:18 AM
Why not ask some of your clients if they would mind you taking pictures to improve your website. Then you can take pictures of them properly holding a firearm. Plus they would probably be more appealing than just stock photos.

XD40SUBBIE
07-25-2012, 10:52 AM
XD40SUBBIE,
I hear what youíre saying and am not sure if you have read some of the post since your last comment.

We have made modifications & corrections due to some wonderful suggestions. Including the area you mentioned.
Also, some of the other members approve of the "We do & We do not".
The feedback from the students is they feel less threatened when they know what they are getting into beforehand.

I do understand the objections to the photo.
However, the image is a stock photo not a model shoot I can re-do.
Tried photoshop-ing, but not successful.
Will keep an eye out for a replacement.

Even the "NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting". The book supplied by NRA for Basic Pistol Course.
The cover is an image of a young, attractive blond woman with her finger on the trigger, looking at a tin can with holes in it.

Obviously, the matter is a minor oversight, NOT a major issue.
Thanks, Stan


I would consider replacing as suggested...same level of hotness, wearing eyes and ears properly handling a firearm. That would go in with your assertion that you promote safety, etc. Right now, if your target audience are females, then there is no reason for her to be there, to be quite honest.

see like this: http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/steelchal2010b.jpg

Now that's hot...:) or check out the attached...Willie Blair...she's so fricken hot as well...

Fishslayer
07-25-2012, 11:34 AM
I saw the future and it came true. :TFH:


Let's talk about silver...;)

XD40SUBBIE
07-25-2012, 1:38 PM
Let's talk about silver...;)

Fish, I say sell. These precious metal thingies is the new mini bubble...it will soon go where the houses went.

Turbinator
07-25-2012, 2:51 PM
Fish, I say sell. These precious metal thingies is the new mini bubble...it will soon go where the houses went.

Guys, stay focused. We have members posting suggestions for this guy to improve his website, let's make sure that future responses are along these lines.

Turby

Curtis
07-25-2012, 3:00 PM
I think the focus on non-tactical training is actually a plus for new or novice shooters. And the quote from a past client was great!

Good luck!

cheapblaster
07-25-2012, 8:07 PM
If you are marketing to women I think your "this is not" info is valid - kind of saying this is not a testosterone soaked jock strap wearing school where you will have to learn to shoot while crawling through swamps and having to ignore the swarms of blood - sucking insects.

He's just offering basic instruction here. That's it. Discussions of bullet button mags are a semester or two down the road.....