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View Full Version : CoCo Brady Campaign blitzes local Patches


masameet
07-23-2012, 9:47 AM
Same message blogged on Walnut Creek, Martinez, Lamorinda and Brentwood (http://walnutcreek.patch.com/users/contra-costa-brady-campaign-to-prevent-gun-violence-6b6ee6bc/blog_posts).

We are fortunate to live in California where we have the strictest gun laws in the country, which are helping to save lives. In 2008 (most recent data available) California’s firearm mortality rate declined to 8.3 per 100,000, while the rest of the country was at 10.4. Still in 2009, 6,053 people were shot in California and 2,972 of them died. As horrible as those numbers are, they represent a steady decline in firearms deaths since in 1993 (14,135 people shot and 5,322 died) and the enactment over time of California’s strong gun laws. See CA’s gun laws here: http://smartgunlaws.org/california-state-law-summary/

However much improvement there has been, 6,000 people shot is still 6,000 too many. More can be done at the State level, such as outlawing the “bullet button” assault weapons that the gun manufacturers are using to get around California’s assault weapons ban.

javalos
07-23-2012, 9:56 AM
The Brady Bunch have become irrelevant, same old song, blame guns, enact un-effective gun laws that only affect the majority of law abiding citizens for the acts of a small criminal minority, etc. Americans have wised up and realize that gun control laws are futile in stopping crime.

RazzB7
07-23-2012, 10:18 AM
The Brady Bunch have become irrelevant, same old song, blame guns, enact un-effective gun laws that only affect the majority of law abiding citizens for the acts of a small criminal minority, etc. Americans have wised up and realize that gun control laws are futile in stopping crime.

Never underestimate your enemy or their supporters. The "Brady Bunch" is far from irrelevant and we must be vigilant especially after tragedies like the Aurora Theater shooting. These anti-gun zealots will think nothing of exploiting a tragedy to further their political agenda. They do have a sympathetic ear, especially in California.

We need to continue to educate the public and promote stories where guns have helped save lives.

Dr Rockso
07-23-2012, 10:34 AM
California's firearm homicide rate is still above the national average, suicides just swamp the data in states with very high firearms ownership rates (where firearms ownership is very common, people are more likely to commit suicides with firearms than by other means).

This was done with data from the same timeframe LCAV used for their "Gun Laws Matter" brochure.

The top one is from LCAV's brocure, blue states are below the national average in total gun deaths. The bottom map is one that I produced from FBI UCR data, blue states are below the national average for firearms homicides.

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2337/lcavwithsuicides.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7476/homicideratebystate.jpg

NYsteveZ
07-23-2012, 10:42 AM
Im not gonna argue Brady's data and numbers here. After all...the deaths are on a decline. My point? The deaths are on a decline since the sunset of the Assault Weapons ban in 2004

Curley Red
07-23-2012, 10:46 AM
Brady blames guns while conservatives blames liberal. Maybe we should blame the real reason this happened, and that would be the shooter and no one else.

Novel concept, blame the person.

leadstorm
07-23-2012, 10:59 AM
We are fortunate to live in California where we have the strictest gun laws in the countryEven that part is not accurate. There are other states and localities with faaaar more "strict" gun laws on the books.

Stonewalker
07-23-2012, 11:14 AM
Even that part is not accurate. There are other states and localities with faaaar more "strict" gun laws on the books.

shhhhhh

nick
07-23-2012, 11:19 AM
Hmm, let's see, from 2009 FBI UCR:

Violent crime: National - 457.5 per 100,000, CA - 506.2 per 100,000; 10.6% higher than national average.
Murder and non-negligent manslaughter: National - 5.4 per 100,000, CA - 5.9 per 100,000; 9.3% higher than national average.

Source: FBI UCR http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_05.html

And in 2008 we had (since they mix up two years there):

Violent crime: National - 466.9 per 100,000, CA - 503.8 per 100,000; 7.9% higher than national average.
Murder and non-negligent manslaughter: National - 5.6 per 100,000, CA - 6.2 per 100,000; 10.7% higher than national average.

Source: FBI UCR http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_04.html

Of course, these are overall crime stats, and Bradys specifically select "gun crimes", as if being shot is somehow worse than being bludgeoned or stabbed to death. Alright, let's look at the UCR stats on "gun deaths".

Nationwide murders with a gun in 2009 - 9,146; CA - 1,360. Source: FBI UCR http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_05.html

Wait, the Bradys quote 2,972? Must be wishful thinking followed by a typo... Unless, of course, in their typical manner, they included the justifiable homicides (cops shooting criminals, people defending themselves, horrible things like that) and suicides.

So, how are these strictest guns laws that we're "blessed with" working out again?

nick
07-23-2012, 11:22 AM
Brady blames guns while conservatives blames liberal. Maybe we should blame the real reason this happened, and that would be the shooter and no one else.

Novel concept, blame the person.

There's more to it, as various laws may enable a safer environment for criminals. For instance, the laws disarming the law-abiding people, inhibiting their ability to defend themselves, things like that.

The criminals are at fault for starting the violence. The laws above are at fault for that violence often going unchecked, and the criminals often emerging victorious from these encounters, which enables them to continue perpetrating crimes.

njineermike
07-23-2012, 11:25 AM
Brady blames guns while conservatives blames liberal. Maybe we should blame the real reason this happened, and that would be the shooter and no one else.

Novel concept, blame the person.

Actually, true conservatives DO blame the shooter. It's overwhelmingly the "liberal" entities that blame the gun.

And you're latest attempts at political trolling to derail threads has been seriously lackluster as of late. You used to be better at this.

nick
07-23-2012, 11:27 AM
California's firearm homicide rate is still above the national average, suicides just swamp the data in states with very high firearms ownership rates (where firearms ownership is very common, people are more likely to commit suicides with firearms than by other means).

This was done with data from the same timeframe LCAV used for their "Gun Laws Matter" brochure.

The top one is from LCAV's brocure, blue states are below the national average in total gun deaths. The bottom map is one that I produced from FBI UCR data, blue states are below the national average for firearms homicides.

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2337/lcavwithsuicides.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7476/homicideratebystate.jpg

The only issue I have there is with allowing the antis frame the debate. Homicides committed using firearms are no different from homicides committed by any other means.

The fun part is that even within the limits of their own debate, they still fail.

Curley Red
07-23-2012, 12:08 PM
And you're latest attempts at political trolling to derail threads has been seriously lackluster as of late. You used to be better at this.

Uhh, yeah, right, whatever. It really is a shame when a person can not give their own opinion without being called a troll. But then again I do not expect much from the right. If it doesn't agree with them then it must be a troll.

Dr Rockso
07-23-2012, 12:42 PM
The only issue I have there is with allowing the antis frame the debate. Homicides committed using firearms are no different from homicides committed by any other means.

The fun part is that even within the limits of their own debate, they still fail.

That's true, but I think that the antis do two things that just about everyone would agree are misleading. One, the inclusion of suicide data in various gun death statistics (the whole, "you're more likely to be killed with your own gun" mantra loses its impact when you realize that just about everyone killed with their own gun did it intentionally). The second is the inclusion of late teens/ early twenties in the "children" category for reporting childhood gun deaths. I've discussed those topics with people who are politically liberal, but don't appreciate being intentionally mislead, and I know firsthand how that kind of thing kills the credibility of the organization issuing the misleading information.

nick
07-23-2012, 11:02 PM
That's true, but I think that the antis do two things that just about everyone would agree are misleading. One, the inclusion of suicide data in various gun death statistics (the whole, "you're more likely to be killed with your own gun" mantra loses its impact when you realize that just about everyone killed with their own gun did it intentionally). The second is the inclusion of late teens/ early twenties in the "children" category for reporting childhood gun deaths. I've discussed those topics with people who are politically liberal, but don't appreciate being intentionally mislead, and I know firsthand how that kind of thing kills the credibility of the organization issuing the misleading information.

I'll keep that in mind for my debates. Yeah, I get plenty of those debates - I work in a media company in Burbank :)

njineermike
07-24-2012, 7:15 AM
Uhh, yeah, right, whatever. It really is a shame when a person can not give their own opinion without being called a troll. But then again I do not expect much from the right. If it doesn't agree with them then it must be a troll.


This has nothing to do with conservative/liberal. It is a Brady issue, and the OP was pointing a media bltz whete they are attempting to exploit a tragedy to gain some measure of political action, and using the same false data they always use, which has been debunked repeatedly. But as usual, your myopic viewpoint failed to see past your own bias and you managed to interject something into it that wasn't there. We're all used to it by now. I wasn't calling you a troll. That portion is obvious. I was commenting on your subpar trolling.

Wherryj
07-24-2012, 7:39 AM
California's firearm homicide rate is still above the national average, suicides just swamp the data in states with very high firearms ownership rates (where firearms ownership is very common, people are more likely to commit suicides with firearms than by other means).

This was done with data from the same timeframe LCAV used for their "Gun Laws Matter" brochure.

The top one is from LCAV's brocure, blue states are below the national average in total gun deaths. The bottom map is one that I produced from FBI UCR data, blue states are below the national average for firearms homicides.

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/2337/lcavwithsuicides.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7476/homicideratebystate.jpg

That and anyone who tries to argue that controlling guns will help limit suicides doesn't realize that those who commit suicide will use whatever is available. Many of those alternatives cause far more suffering before the eventual death, especially if it takes multiple attempts. Trust me, I've treated these patients.

njineermike
07-24-2012, 9:01 AM
That and anyone who tries to argue that controlling guns will help limit suicides doesn't realize that those who commit suicide will use whatever is available. Many of those alternatives cause far more suffering before the eventual death, especially if it takes multiple attempts. Trust me, I've treated these patients.

It's a false front when they say that they want to reduce suicides. If they wanted to do that, they'd lobby for mental health, banning ropes, belts, bootlaces, tall buildings, plastic bags, rat poison, razor blades and internal combustion engines. But they still use it because some people fail to see through the false argument.