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bjoernt
07-21-2012, 12:37 AM
Hi Guys,

I was wondering if there I any Law/Treaty that prevents permanent residents in CAL to buy/possess/train with Handguns?
I at least couldn't find against this, even not in the ITAR documents.

I'm asking because I wanted to take a NRA basic pistol class and also make the HSC. But once I saw that the liability documents for the course were explicitly tailored to US citizens I asked him what's about this paragraph.
He only told me that my residency status could be problematic and he can not answer it and I can not take firearms related training because the ITAR treaty prohibits that.
He recommends me to wait until I'm US citizen before I take any action.

I had a different opinion but I'm now stuck since I can't find any law which prevents me from doing that.

What do you think?

Bj


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dantodd
07-21-2012, 12:41 AM
Permanent residents can buy guns with no problem. You'll need your ID, green card, proof of residency etc. Also there may be a requirement to have been in the US for the 90 days immediately preceding a purchase but I think that is only for nonermanent residents.

ETA: direct from the ATF

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#aliens-purchase
Q: May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?
An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.

See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921, 922(b)(3), (d) and (g), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.99(a)]

In short no law prevents you from buying, possessing, training with, or using, a gun

bjoernt
07-21-2012, 12:45 AM
No the 90 days of state residency proof are coming from the BATF regulations. I have to do it on every purchase. But that's fine for me


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bussda
07-21-2012, 8:13 AM
I think the proof of 90 days residency is no longer required. There is a new 4473 that no longer requires that documentation.

kingey
07-21-2012, 2:13 PM
Proof of 90 day residency is still required, at least as of 2 months ago when i bought my latest gun.

BigFatGuy
07-21-2012, 3:33 PM
ITAR is a pretty scary set of laws, but I'll bet it doesn't prohibit explaining how to line up iron sights.

bussda
07-21-2012, 3:49 PM
Proof of 90 day residency is still required, at least as of 2 months ago when i bought my latest gun.

The change occurred starting 7/9. Your next one will not require 90 day proof of residency.

JDoe
07-21-2012, 5:51 PM
He only told me that my residency status could be problematic and he can not answer it and I can not take firearms related training because the ITAR treaty prohibits that.
He recommends me to wait until I'm US citizen before I take any action.

FUD

He is wrong, find another school.

corcoraj2002
07-21-2012, 6:10 PM
I just dros'd a .22l today. I'm a green card holder. No need for the 90 days of bills, one util, CA ID, green card and HSC is all that is needed.

J.

Interfan
07-21-2012, 8:41 PM
He only told me that my residency status could be problematic and he can not answer it and I can not take firearms related training because the ITAR treaty prohibits that.
He recommends me to wait until I'm US citizen before I take any action.


For foreign nationals, ITAR does come into play but it is mostly on things on the USML that are considered to be "sensitive" technology or knowledge. If you wanted to take an EOD course or a tactical weapons course that provides current military type training or doctrine, you probably would run into ITAR issues and check to see if you need to get a clearance from the State Dept. - Which you can get unless you're from certain countries or have some problems in your background. Other things are technology related like night vision, thermal imaging, UAS, etc.

A basic NRA course of any kind isn't really applicable to ITAR since it is not sensitive information, but common knowledge that isn't current US military training. We deal with ITAR at work and it is very complex, but you aren't going to be running into ITAR with that type of NRA course unless you're from North Korea.

Find a different instructor. This one thinks he's teaching SEALs, not civilians and probably doesn't know ****. It is great that you want training. Find the right place and go for it!

bjoernt
07-24-2012, 4:12 PM
Thanks guys.
That's exactly the impression I had so far too.


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