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choprzrul
07-19-2012, 10:24 PM
This really is about a friend of my wife's.

Over 2 years ago, friend's father passed away in Florida. He had an extensive gun collection that was distributed according to the instructions in his will.

Well, today, friend's mother has been put in a care home and friend is cleaning out the house and finds a rib sticker. This firearm was not listed in the will and apparently none of the kids even knew that he owned. The friend is wanting to bring it back to California from where she is at now in Florida. Unsure about mental capacity of the mother and her ability to do an interfamiliar transfer. Given that mom is probably the legal owner, but still alive with undetermined will instructions or if she even knew about the snubbie; how does friend go about doing a legal transfer & transport back to CA?

Failing a legal transfer/transport option, what would a person do with such a find?

.

Burla
07-19-2012, 10:43 PM
Bury it in a coffee can, NO I'm JOKING.

I would somehow first make sure it isn't registered as a stolen gun. If it was left out of the will, maybe there was a reason. Don't bring the gun anywhere, if it was stolen you would be arrested for possession of stolen property. Write the serial number down and ask nicely at the police station. If the mother is legally diminished, she should have a power of attorney for her money and property. They should be able to transfer it if it is registered to her husband.

here is the printable PDF file (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/sb950frm1107.pdf) for power of attorney transfer. I don't know read carefully something about 30 days, if she has diminished capacity how should could name a POA for this transaction? It might not be worth the trouble.

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Librarian
07-19-2012, 11:19 PM
Florida to a CA-resident is an interstate transfer.

Since this last one is NOT an inheritance, it would be an interstate transfer, and that requires a CA-FFL to receive it; the CA resident cannot legally take possession outside of CA.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki articles on

Intrafamilial transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members

Interstate transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

choprzrul
07-20-2012, 7:01 AM
Florida to a CA-resident is an interstate transfer.

Since this last one is NOT an inheritance, it would be an interstate transfer, and that requires a CA-FFL to receive it; the CA resident cannot legally take possession outside of CA.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki articles on

Intrafamilial transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members

Interstate transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

This is what I figured Librarian and than you for posting.

Currently, between right now, and the transfer process, what is the ownership status of the gun and is the friend legally able to possess it? Since the house is being emptied, leaving it there is not an option.

.

dantodd
07-20-2012, 7:56 AM
She could assist her mother in shipping the gun to a CA-FFL and then she could legally take possession after gun jail and paperwork when she returns to CA. I know the laws are stupid and the costs may make it not worthwhile but afaik that's the only way to do it.

Kukuforguns
07-20-2012, 10:27 AM
I'm not a probate attorney, so everything I'm about to say should be considered absolute hogwash.

In order to determine the status of the gun would likely cost hundreds and maybe thousands of dollars in legal fees. You would have to prove: (1) who originally owned gun, friend's father or mother or someone else; (2) if (as assumed) it belonged to friend's father, you would have to show that under the terms of the the father's will, all remaining property (including snubbie) was bequeathed to the friend's mother. That's a major PITA ("Pain in the . . . ").

Ask friend's mom if she knows about the gun. If she does not know about the gun, then you can safely conclude that the gun did not originally belong to the mom. Ask your friend how important this gun is. Is there an emotional attachment to a gun that no one knew the father owned? If not and if the gun is not particularly valuable, donate it to the local police department. It's just a hunk of metal. If there is an emotional attachment, call up the probate attorney who handled the father's estate and ask how the gun likely should be handled and how much it will cost to determine status. Proceed as appropriate based on the attorney's response.

taperxz
07-20-2012, 10:40 AM
I'm not a probate attorney, so everything I'm about to say should be considered absolute hogwash.

In order to determine the status of the gun would likely cost hundreds and maybe thousands of dollars in legal fees. You would have to prove: (1) who originally owned gun, friend's father or mother or someone else; (2) if (as assumed) it belonged to friend's father, you would have to show that under the terms of the the father's will, all remaining property (including snubbie) was bequeathed to the friend's mother. That's a major PITA ("Pain in the . . . ").

Ask friend's mom if she knows about the gun. If she does not know about the gun, then you can safely conclude that the gun did not originally belong to the mom. Ask your friend how important this gun is. Is there an emotional attachment to a gun that no one knew the father owned? If not and if the gun is not particularly valuable, donate it to the local police department. It's just a hunk of metal. If there is an emotional attachment, call up the probate attorney who handled the father's estate and ask how the gun likely should be handled and how much it will cost to determine status. Proceed as appropriate based on the attorney's response.

Please don't do this^^^ (bold) you can easily sell it there in Florida.

dantodd
07-20-2012, 12:26 PM
I'm not a probate attorney, so everything I'm about to say should be considered absolute hogwash.

In order to determine the status of the gun would likely cost hundreds and maybe thousands of dollars in legal fees. You would have to prove: (1) who originally owned gun, friend's father or mother or someone else; (2) if (as assumed) it belonged to friend's father, you would have to show that under the terms of the the father's will, all remaining property (including snubbie) was bequeathed to the friend's mother. That's a major PITA ("Pain in the . . . ").

Ask friend's mom if she knows about the gun. If she does not know about the gun, then you can safely conclude that the gun did not originally belong to the mom. Ask your friend how important this gun is. Is there an emotional attachment to a gun that no one knew the father owned? If not and if the gun is not particularly valuable, donate it to the local police department. It's just a hunk of metal. If there is an emotional attachment, call up the probate attorney who handled the father's estate and ask how the gun likely should be handled and how much it will cost to determine status. Proceed as appropriate based on the attorney's response.

Yeah.... um. No.

Just because mom doesn't know about the weapon doesn't mean that she doesn't own it. If the estate is legally considered settled then the gun likely belongs to her either because of community property laws or because she was likely the default beneficiary of any non-directed property.

Now, if the estate isn't settled at this point, and she's the rightful heir, she can simply bring the gun back with her and file an OpLaw as a bequest.

mud99
07-20-2012, 2:01 PM
Or you could just bring it back and voluntary register it, and write "found it in my late dads stuff" on the form. Probably nothing would happen.

dantodd
07-20-2012, 2:09 PM
Or you could just bring it back and voluntary register it, and write "found it in my late dads stuff" on the form. Probably nothing would happen.

That's a federal offense. Unlicensed individuals are not generally permitted to acquire firearms outside of their home state.

OneHotDog
07-20-2012, 2:45 PM
I would disassemble it. Ship the pieces separately to california. Re-assemble it. And never mention I had it to ANY State LEO. Its none of their business.

dantodd
07-20-2012, 2:53 PM
I would disassemble it. Ship the pieces separately to california. Re-assemble it. And never mention I had it to ANY State LEO. Its none of their business.

Still a federal offense.

4 Options.

1) Help mom ship it to CA and then she can pick it up here. (may be more expensive than it is worth)

2) If the estate isn't legally settled you can carry it home and transfer via OpLaw as a bequest from Dad.

3) Help mom sell it in FL.

4) Let Mom keep it.

There is no "just bring it home and don['t tell anyone" or "just bring it home and voluntary register it." These are against Federal and State law. Please don't break the law and please ignore people who would suggest you voluntarily become a felon.

Get3CoffinsReady
07-20-2012, 2:59 PM
the CA resident cannot legally take possession outside of CA.

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not sure why that stuck out but it did.

Librarian
07-20-2012, 4:34 PM
I would disassemble it. Ship the pieces separately to california. Re-assemble it. And never mention I had it to ANY State LEO. Its none of their business.

And one who does such a thing commits a Federal felony, and one who out of state, gives a gun to someone who does not live in the same state, also commits a Federal felony.

Giving advice to commit felonies is a violation of the site rules.

choprzrul
07-20-2012, 6:13 PM
So, if the friend retains a General Power of Attorney on behalf of her mother; can she then ship the firearm on behalf of her mother to an FFL here in CA?

.

mud99
07-20-2012, 10:43 PM
If the gun was not gifted, but was simply found, how does that play into this?


And one who does such a thing commits a Federal felony, and one who out of state, gives a gun to someone who does not live in the same state, also commits a Federal felony.

Giving advice to commit felonies is a violation of the site rules.

dantodd
07-20-2012, 11:33 PM
So, if the friend retains a General Power of Attorney on behalf of her mother; can she then ship the firearm on behalf of her mother to an FFL here in CA?

.

Yes. But there is no need for a power of attorney, she can just help her mom ship it. The same way she can help mom ship a package of cookies to her grandchildren.

dantodd
07-20-2012, 11:39 PM
If the gun was not gifted, but was simply found, how does that play into this?

If it was found it wouldn't be roster exempt and since she can't take possession out of state how does it get transferred?