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View Full Version : Hypothetical - Moving to California with Handguns, Don't Want a DL or ID


Mssr. Eleganté
07-15-2012, 5:47 PM
Here's a hypothetical situation...

What if somebody moves to California with handguns, but they don't want to get a California driver's license or ID card from DMV? They don't own a motor vehicle and don't plan to drive. They get along fine using their U.S. passport, ATM and credit cards.

As a "personal handgun importer" they are required by California law to report all of the handguns they bring with them by sending in the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report. (http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/ab991frm.pdf) This report has a space for your California DL or ID number and the instructions say that all required information must be filled in or the report with be returned without processing.

But the Penal Code compelling new residents to report handgun ownership does not require new residents to obtain a DL or ID from DMV. And I can't find any requirement to get a California DL or ID in any other section of California law. So if somebody moves to California and establishes residency (gets a house or apartment where they truly live, registers to vote) and then within 60 days mails in the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report to CalDOJ listing all of the handguns they brought with them but without including a DL or ID number (because they don't have one), it seems they would be in full compliance with the law even though CalDOJ would probably reject the form.

And since CalDOJ seems to connect firearm registration information to the owners in the database via DL or ID numbers, I'm wondering if CalDOJ even has the ability to register firearms to somebody who doesn't have a California DL or ID (or a military ID).

Could this be a way for a new California resident to legally have unregistered handguns in California? I know it's already possible for a new resident to legally have unregistered handguns if they "forget" to send in the form at all during the first 60 days and then wait out the one year statute of limitations on the crime. But the way I'm talking about would seem to be 100% legal from the get go.

Also, this method wouldn't preclude the new resident from obtaining a California DL or ID at some later date (after 60 days of becoming a resident).

mag360
07-15-2012, 5:49 PM
what is the crime for simple ownership of unregistered handgun? not carrying unregistered.

Librarian
07-15-2012, 5:52 PM
what is the crime for simple ownership of unregistered handgun? not carrying unregistered.

No crime.

It IS a crime to not register them by mail when you move them here, or, alternatively sell them - which you could not do without CA ID of either sort.

Mssr. Eleganté
07-15-2012, 5:54 PM
what is the crime for simple ownership of unregistered handgun? not carrying unregistered.

Ownership of unregistered handguns is 100% legal in California. Illegally carrying a concealed handgun can be charged as a felony instead of a misdemeanor if the handgun is not registered to you, even if there was never a requirement to register it.

Mssr. Eleganté
07-15-2012, 6:00 PM
It IS a crime to not register them by mail when you move them here, or, alternatively sell them - which you could not do without CA ID of either sort.

It's a crime to not mail in the form. If CalDOJ isn't able to use a 100% accurately filled out form to complete the registration process then that's on them, right?

Ron-Solo
07-15-2012, 6:30 PM
I would put in the DL or ID number from the old state, indicate that it is the old state and that you don't have the new ID.

You have complied with the requirement to notify DOJ. Keep copies of everything you send in.

BigJ
07-15-2012, 6:35 PM
Interesting. Subscribed.

mrdd
07-15-2012, 6:38 PM
Is it even possible to open a bank account these days without a valid ID?

Mssr. Eleganté
07-15-2012, 6:52 PM
Is it even possible to open a bank account these days without a valid ID?

You probably need a valid ID to open a bank account, but not necessarily a California ID. And in my hypothetical example I was assuming the new resident already had a bank account before moving to California.

littlejake
07-15-2012, 7:15 PM
You probably need a valid ID to open a bank account, but not necessarily a California ID. And in my hypothetical example I was assuming the new resident already had a bank account before moving to California.

You do need a CA ID to walk into a bank in CA and open and account; it's certainly possible, with online banking to retain one's former bank. I knew a person who had his VA check direct deposited into a BofA account in Florida while he lived for 10 years as an expat in Vietnam.

CA has required an SSN for a DL or ID card for sometime. Although the SSN is never put on a DROS or AFS printout -- it's connected.

Perhaps DOJ has a way to register by SSN. Would be interesting.

wash
07-15-2012, 7:21 PM
I would suggest entering none when it asks for an ID number.

Another option to explore is a firearm trust.

BigJ
07-15-2012, 7:24 PM
You do need a CA ID to walk into a bank in CA and open and accountBy policy, perhaps. But not by law: http://www.business.ca.gov/StartaBusiness/OperatingaBusiness/OpeningaBankAccount.aspx

"To open an individual account in California, the new accounts officer will ask for a taxpayer identification number. This will be either a Social Security Number (SSN) or an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)."

littlejake
07-15-2012, 8:36 PM
By policy, perhaps. But not by law: http://www.business.ca.gov/StartaBusiness/OperatingaBusiness/OpeningaBankAccount.aspx

"To open an individual account in California, the new accounts officer will ask for a taxpayer identification number. This will be either a Social Security Number (SSN) or an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)."

Old info. Under the Patriot Act, two forms of ID are required to open a bank account.

snowdog650
07-15-2012, 8:46 PM
Old info. Under the Patriot Act, two forms of ID are required to open a bank account.

Funny. I didn't need any IDs at all to open an online bank account with ING Direct. :confused:

BigJ
07-15-2012, 8:50 PM
Old info. Under the Patriot Act, two forms of ID are required to open a bank account.Negative Ghost Rider. That's a common misconception. There are no federal regulatory requirement stipulating how many forms of identification your bank must obtain; that includes the Patriot Act. Its strictly a state regulatory issue.

dantodd
07-15-2012, 9:41 PM
An answer of "none" for the DL/ID number would be honest and complete. Now if you want to acquire another gun....