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View Full Version : Just what is the truth about Firearms - Statistically....


divercal
07-14-2012, 7:50 PM
With all the current political wranglings and hype especially in regards to Gun Rights/Gun Control - I thought I would try to find some facts to be better informed.
A google search on "firearms statistics united states" revealed the first sight listed

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

Its a long read but it sure seems to be a truthful and unbiased account of what the clear facts are on the effects of Firearms and Gun Control and Gun Rights.

It is worth reading if only to confirm what is already known to be logical. The sight is very clear and backs up their statements and presentation with exhaustive footnotes and links to actual government reports and findings.

I am sure anybody can try to refute any facts presented but I feel they do a good job of being un-biased and truthful and am glad I found the site first because they made a good presentation of the whole picture - of the effects of firearms in our society.

Their main home site is also a good place to check out for other issues currently being debated.

Being well, and correctly informed is a good way to present defense against ignorance -

NotEnufGarage
07-14-2012, 8:00 PM
Statistics can lie, too.

A lot depends on how numbers are arrived at.

The "children" group, in many gun stats includes people up to age 21 (or even higher) which includes a lot of gang members. Not exactly the group you picture when someone says xx% of gun violence are children, are they?

The only stats I'll believe are one that are backed up with the individual informations on each person included in the sample so that the data can be objectively validated.

SilverTauron
07-14-2012, 8:04 PM
A guy long ago, in a place not so far away a man named Col. John Cooper determined that the anti-gun population is not afflicted with a strict case of ignorance, but of an internal emotional fear of firearms. In much the same way that an Arachnophobe is frightened of spiders, a hoplophobe is someone who is afraid of weapons. This can include knives, but the more popular manifestation is of fear of firearms.

Unlike someone who is afraid of Spiders, a person afraid of firearms or afflicted with projection issues to the same just so happens to have a legislative vent for their emotional angst. Gun control laws are in many cases just as absurd as a law against spiders, but one afflicted with hoplophobia doesn't see it as a personal problem. There is no known pharmeceutical cure, but field reports have indicated a .22LR brick of ammunition in combination with a target pistol and reactive targets seems to have a positive effect on combating this illness of the mind.

kaligaran
07-14-2012, 8:09 PM
Thank you for posting this link. I had heard a lot of these stats before but that's a great list in one place.

I learned something just this last week that was really interesting to me I figured I'd share. It was mentioned by a friend during a debate with a anti-2A co-worker and the co-worker was left scratching their head (and prolly rushing to google to confirm).

The following is either quoted or paraphrased from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#Gun_crime):
In Switzerland, males are expected to enter the military to be reservists from age 20 to 30. They are issued a Sig 550 (5.56) and must keep it at home in servicable condition. In 2001, the total number of firearms in private homes is estimated to be minimally at 1.2 million to 3 million.
With a population of 7.6 million, in 2006 there were only 34 killings or attempted killings involving firearms. This would put the rate of killings or attempted killings with firearms at about one for every quarter million residents yearly.


Now that's some interesting stuff.

G60
07-14-2012, 8:34 PM
There is no positive correlation between gun ownership and violence. In fact, "there is a strong, negative correlation between the number of firearms per person in America and the number of firearm-related fatalities per person, and that correlation seems to become more negative with additional data."

http://www.wallsofthecity.net/2012/06/graphics-matter-year-the-fourth.html

divercal
07-14-2012, 8:45 PM
Thanks for that info and for the other commenters comments also...
Bottom line for me at least - it seems the facts and statistics (and just plain logic) point to the Positive effects of citizens keeping and bearing arms.
But - Like the previous comment eluded to...fear of firearms overwhelms logic and truth.
Fear isn't necessarily a bad thing..IF it is grounded in truth and dealt with properly. (you may have heard of FEAR as an acronym for False Evidence Appearing Real...)
Firearms are scary things...BUT... only if one is ignorant of their uses and functions.
A healthy "Fear" of a firearm's capability isnt wrong...its a sensible reaction to the capability of them...How one reacts to that fear is the key...
One could attempt to Deny Firearms by attempting to completely remove them from existence...probably wont happen..
or..one could attempt to accept them as tools and objects...learn about them and use them if desired and allow others the Freedom to do the same.
That is the path I choose to take...I have a healthy respect for the capability and value of a Firearm not only for sport but for use as protection and equalization in case it is needed for self-defense.

mag360
07-14-2012, 8:50 PM
fyi the brady campaign, lcav, csgv, et.al, leave suicides, gang on gang violence, police related shootings, justifiable homicide, etc in their statistics on "firearm deaths".

FYI but gangs will exist without guns, and so will suicides. They just like padding their numbers.

SkyMag68
07-14-2012, 8:56 PM
Check out the latest FBI Crime Statistics http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats..Guns ownership goes up crime goes down.

divercal
07-14-2012, 9:00 PM
exactly mag360...that was primarily one of my reasons for looking into
some facts on the issue ...unbiased facts....
unfortunately the Brady clan and the media only want to portray their biased hopes in
order to sway the public and political forces that fear firearms and want to deny all the freedom to have or not have them...

Trust me if they were to have their way it would only be a short time before they
came after your Butter Knives....
If they would spend more time and money on rehabilitating the culture of criminality and preventing that, I think we all would benefit. As it is, if they ban Firearms only the criminals will benefit.....we lose, not just our firearms but our freedom and our right to properly protect ourselves from the criminals who will not stop using whatever they want to attempt to overcome people who have something they want.

mag360
07-14-2012, 9:07 PM
exactly mag360...that was primarily one of my reasons for looking into
some facts on the issue ...unbiased facts....
unfortunately the Brady clan and the media only want to portray their biased hopes in
order to sway the public and political forces that fear firearms and want to deny all the freedom to have or not have them...

Trust me if they were to have their way it would only be a short time before they
came after your Butter Knives....
If they would spend more time and money on rehabilitating the culture of criminality and preventing that, I think we all would benefit. As it is, if they ban Firearms only the criminals will benefit.....we lose, not just our firearms but our freedom and our right to properly protect ourselves from the criminals who will not stop using whatever they want to attempt to overcome people who have something they want.


oh just thought I would add that they also throw in Justifiable Homicides and Police related shootings of criminals.

G60
07-14-2012, 9:26 PM
oh just thought I would add that they also throw in Justifiable Homicides...

This is true, but one of the big lies I see coming from our side (yeah, we lie, too.) is "aside from suicide, most gun deaths are justifiable homicides."

Civilian justified homicides from firearms number 200-230 per year, and law enforcement around 400/year, a rather small percentage of the 8700-9000 firearms deaths each year that are not suicides.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl15.xls
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl14.xls

G60
07-14-2012, 9:31 PM
I would also like to add that the CDC estimates 80,000 Americans die every year from alcohol-related deaths*, but nobody in their right mind calls for prohibition again. This might sound cold, but gun violence is not as much of a problem as those with an agenda would have you believe.

*http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/DACH_ARDI/Default/Report.aspx?T=AAM&P=de9de51e-d51b-4690-a9a4-358859b692bc&R=804296a0-ac47-41d3-a939-9df26a176186&M=E2769A53-0BFC-453F-9FD7-63C5AA6CE5D7&F=&D=

Quiet
07-14-2012, 9:38 PM
Approximate number of firearms in the USA = 400,000,000

Latest stats from the CDC...
Homicide deaths by Firearms = 11,493

So...

0.0000287325% of firearms are used to murder a person in the USA.


Also...
From the latest CDC Death stats:
Drug induced (all) = 39,147
By Firearms (all) = 31,347
Alcohol induced (all) = 24,518


Top 10 leading causes of death:
1. Heart disease = 599,413
2. Cancer = 567,628
3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
4. Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
5. Accidents (all) = 118,201
6. Alzheimer's disease = 79,003
7. Diabetes = 68,705
8. Influenza & Pneumonia = 53,692
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
10. Suicide (all) = 36,909

ClarenceBoddicker
07-14-2012, 9:46 PM
All the gun statistics in the world are totally meaningless. The 2A trumps all that BS. The sooner the gun rights groups learn to stop trying to play tit for tat with the gun grabbers, the better off gun owners will be. The gun rights groups continued policy of appeasement & ineffective attempts at legitimatizing gun ownership for "sporting" purposes, will lead to eventual civilian disarmament in the US. Fear will always trump facts in the public's mind. Unless something effective is done to combat the anti-gun bias in the media & schools, all is lost. Every year that the plainly un-Constitutional Federal anti-gun laws stand, it reinforces the gun grabbers position. We are soon approaching the 100 year anniversary of the 1st Federal anti-gun law passed in 1927. AFAIK, not one attempt has ever been made to challenge that law. Why?

SilverTauron
07-14-2012, 11:22 PM
All the gun statistics in the world are totally meaningless. The 2A trumps all that BS.
Not to the anti's it doesn't . As far as they are concerned the Constitution is obsolete.Arguing the 2nd Amendment grants us the right to keep and bear arms is like telling a Muslim the Bible approves of eating meat. A Muslim doesn't believe in the Bible, and the anti-gunners don't believe in the USC. Fortunately for us the USC is law of the land.



The sooner the gun rights groups learn to stop trying to play tit for tat with the gun grabbers, the better off gun owners will be. The gun rights groups continued policy of appeasement & ineffective attempts at legitimatizing gun ownership for "sporting" purposes, will lead to eventual civilian disarmament in the US.

Why do we need to legitimize what is already legal?

Ill state it plainly;because gun owners are perceived to be identical to criminals. Just like black Americans were perceived to be inferior in the Jim Crow days, gun owners in NJ, Illinois , and California are lumped into the same category by the gun grabbers as street bangers.There is a valid need to "legitimize" gun ownership, because without a continuous PR drive distinguishing Joe Gunowner from Joe Felony the unwashed masses of America won't know the difference.That state of confusion WILL lead to eventual disarmament in America, as it had in the UK and Australia. The average citizen in those nations didn't see a distinction between the Port Arthur/Dunblane shooters and the legal gun owner, and those nations' crime victims today are paying the price.




Fear will always trump facts in the public's mind. Unless something effective is done to combat the anti-gun bias in the media & schools, all is lost. Every year that the plainly un-Constitutional Federal anti-gun laws stand, it reinforces the gun grabbers position. We are soon approaching the 100 year anniversary of the 1st Federal anti-gun law passed in 1927. AFAIK, not one attempt has ever been made to challenge that law. Why?

Irrational fear has a foundation of ignorance. A long time ago I used to buy into the Chicago machine's BS about guns being evil. Why? Because id never seen the mysterious phenomenon known as a "responsible" gun owner in Illinois. Quite frankly it's too much of a PITA for a typical citizen to get a gun. A 50 day wait for a FOID card, followed by paying $400+ for a piece of hardware you can't even transport without legitimate concern of being arrested? To an ambivalent citizen, paying hundreds of dollars to own something which entitles the cops to toss you in jail at will isn't appealing. Thus, I never bought a gun or even shot one until I left for the military. That's when I got what is referred to as a "clue". I realized on the Air Force M-16 firing line that id been sold a bill of goods.

The real tragedy? There's no way to break the stranglehold in an immediate fashion. What we fight is emotional argument backed by slanted stats and failed policy, which all combines to create a sick type of propaganda which requires personal intervention to break. Being anti-gun is not just about political stance or location-its literally a way of life, and you have to fight it from the bottom up, not the top down.

The anti gun media cannot exist without a viewership. An anti-gun school cannot function without students and staff. If we get off our duffs, quit our whining about calibers wars and open carry complaints, and start taking anti gun people to the range , we might take this monster down. With each person we show the truth to , we might be setting free tens of people more who will in turn spread the truth about responsible gun ownership. As time and info progresses, the anti gun machine will eventually grind to a halt for lack of support.

SanPedroShooter
07-15-2012, 8:05 AM
Not to the anti's it doesn't . As far as they are concerned the Constitution is obsolete.Arguing the 2nd Amendment grants us the right to keep and bear arms is like telling a Muslim the Bible approves of eating meat. A Muslim doesn't believe in the Bible, and the anti-gunners don't believe in the USC. Fortunately for us the USC is law of the land.



Why do we need to legitimize what is already legal?

Ill state it plainly;because gun owners are perceived to be identical to criminals. Just like black Americans were perceived to be inferior in the Jim Crow days, gun owners in NJ, Illinois , and California are lumped into the same category by the gun grabbers as street bangers.There is a valid need to "legitimize" gun ownership, because without a continuous PR drive distinguishing Joe Gunowner from Joe Felony the unwashed masses of America won't know the difference.That state of confusion WILL lead to eventual disarmament in America, as it had in the UK and Australia. The average citizen in those nations didn't see a distinction between the Port Arthur/Dunblane shooters and the legal gun owner, and those nations' crime victims today are paying the price.





Irrational fear has a foundation of ignorance. A long time ago I used to buy into the Chicago machine's BS about guns being evil. Why? Because id never seen the mysterious phenomenon known as a "responsible" gun owner in Illinois. Quite frankly it's too much of a PITA for a typical citizen to get a gun. A 50 day wait for a FOID card, followed by paying $400+ for a piece of hardware you can't even transport without legitimate concern of being arrested? To an ambivalent citizen, paying hundreds of dollars to own something which entitles the cops to toss you in jail at will isn't appealing. Thus, I never bought a gun or even shot one until I left for the military. That's when I got what is referred to as a "clue". I realized on the Air Force M-16 firing line that id been sold a bill of goods.

The real tragedy? There's no way to break the stranglehold in an immediate fashion. What we fight is emotional argument backed by slanted stats and failed policy, which all combines to create a sick type of propaganda which requires personal intervention to break. Being anti-gun is not just about political stance or location-its literally a way of life, and you have to fight it from the bottom up, not the top down.

The anti gun media cannot exist without a viewership. An anti-gun school cannot function without students and staff. If we get off our duffs, quit our whining about calibers wars and open carry complaints, and start taking anti gun people to the range , we might take this monster down. With each person we show the truth to , we might be setting free tens of people more who will in turn spread the truth about responsible gun ownership. As time and info progresses, the anti gun machine will eventually grind to a halt for lack of support.

Its already getting there in my opinion. Baby steps indeed, but thats the pace of one shooter at a time.

I get calls and emails from people in the sixties down to twenty year old hipsters asking about guns and where and what to buy (I tell them to print out Jeff Coopers Four Rules and buy a .22, I am no expert)... My dad was a shotgun shooter for years with no use for rifles and bad opinion of pistols in general. He is getting his carry permit shortly and a revolver to go with it...

With a flood, or even a trickle of new shooters, a good chunk of them women and shall issue carry permits, we can beat holophobes into the same category as flat earthers.

The anti's nail their own coffin in two ways. By telling transparent lies that dont fool anyone in the internet age (although very effective before) and trying to drum up support they drive gun owners into a buying frenzy. 0bama is the gun salesman of the decade based on this principle, and he has been tight lipped in public on this issue.

Can you imagine if he pulled a clinton? Or even hinted at it? We would see stockpiling and gun buying unheard of since the bad old days....

We have them trapped, every move they make drives them further into the corner. The only way for them to remain relevant is start supporting guns, but on our terms. Look at the shift from 'ban all handguns' 70's 80's and 90's to 'well, okay in the home' 2000's to 'well, okay with a carry permit' and ??? in future.

We have truth, tradition and right on our side. We just need to stay the course and try not to rub it in to much or exagerate or lie (the NRA can be guilty of this in my opinion)

Obviously, this applies in CA only so far, I am speaking on a national level.

daveinwoodland
07-15-2012, 8:25 AM
While this is a bit older the facts and figures are still a good resource:

http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm