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View Full Version : Can a revolver that takes moonclips be fired without the clips?


Lead Waster
07-09-2012, 4:25 PM
Say you have a gun cut for moonclips like the S&W 625. Can you load it and shoot it without moonclips?

Sorry for newberto question, I know nothing about revolvers except that they revolve!

Thanks!

morrcarr67
07-09-2012, 4:27 PM
Some you can. Some you can't. And, some you shouldn't even if you could.

The biggest problem is getting the spent casing out of the cylinder.. Might need some type of "punch" to get it out.

littlejake
07-09-2012, 4:49 PM
A lot of .455 Webley's were cut on the rear of the cylinder to accept .45 ACP in half-moon clips. The .45 Auto Rim cartridge could also be used; but, it's nearly impossible to find.

S&W has made some modern revolvers that use moon clips in .45 ACP and 9mm -- I think they can be fired without the clips because the headspace is at the case mouth; and the moon clips are for loading and being able to eject them.

YMMY

Czechsix
07-09-2012, 5:05 PM
Say you have a gun cut for moonclips like the S&W 625. Can you load it and shoot it without moonclips?

Sorry for newberto question, I know nothing about revolvers except that they revolve!

Thanks!

Use the clips, much easier. Or go .45AR, like the other guy said.

Can you do it physically? Maybe...if the firing pin can reach...but I'll bet it won't work.

Revoman
07-09-2012, 5:15 PM
Most of the true auto calibers cannot be fired in a revolver, sometimes they work, but rarely. There is no shoulder at the case head to hang onto the cylinder and they usually slide forward with the inertia of the hammer, unless they are tight fitting in the cylinder holes. If they do fire you gotta push out the empties with something to reach down into the cylinder holes. They are also not usually cut for moonies as they are factory set up to use moonies and have the proper clearances to do so without the cylinder being milled.

There are however, some true revolver calibers that can be shot without moonies such as the S&W Model 627, eight shot. As long as the firing pin is long enough to crack off the primer, you're good to go....and mostly this particular revolver works well either way.

bohoki
07-09-2012, 5:45 PM
you can if you are firing uphill

you could also make little rings for the rims with wire wrapped around a bic pen

redcliff
07-09-2012, 6:11 PM
Say you have a gun cut for moonclips like the S&W 625. Can you load it and shoot it without moonclips?

Sorry for newberto question, I know nothing about revolvers except that they revolve!

Thanks!

It depends on the vintage of the revolver whether they'll work reliably.

They fire fine in my 625 without clips; they headspace off the case mouth in the cylinder's chambers. However I have an older 625, and (3) Model 25-2's with hammer mounted firing pins. YMMV. The extractor star won't extract the fired cases though, so point the muzzle up and shake or use a rod to poke them out.

The moonclips are so cheap (less than .50 cents each) theres no reason not to have a bunch and stash them in several places in your range bags and pistol cases so you're never without em.

Lately I've been using the Rimz moon clips which are plastic, but they actually cost more than the steel moon clips (about $2 a piece).

Dismal_Scientist
07-09-2012, 6:46 PM
Like redcliff said... +1 for Rimz. The plastic moon clips are easy to load/unload by hand.

spencerhut
07-09-2012, 7:18 PM
While you can shoot moon clipped 625 & 627 w/o the moon clips, success is rarely 100%. The little 442/642 setup for the moon clips seem to always work no matter what, at least for me.

The Rimz things work okay at the range when practicing. I had some for a couple of years and gave them to a buddy when I no longer needed them.

Why you ask did I no longer need them? Because I threw my collection of loader gizmos in the trash and bought BMT loaders for my 5,6 & 8 shot revolvers. They are almost a c-note each, but I'll never need to mess with crappy plastic clips or make my fingers bleed taking empties out of good steel clips. Nor will I bend perfectly good 8-round clips trying to load them by hand. Get a BMT and you will never worry about loading and unloading your clips again or mess with shooting without the clips since loading and unloading are so much easier than ever before.

naimad
07-09-2012, 7:36 PM
45 auto rim ammo will work without moon clips

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Auto_Rim

Fishslayer
07-09-2012, 8:54 PM
Generally yes. The .45ACP headspaces on the case mouth. The moon clips give the extractor something to push.

Without moonclips if the empties don't drop out you can push them out with a pencil or piece of wooden dowel.

sffred
07-10-2012, 12:04 PM
I understand it still can be shot but u need the moon clips! Play it safe and correct for you and ur guns safety!

cHaOs ReX
07-10-2012, 12:25 PM
My S&W TRR8 is cut for moon clips and I've only shot it without using moon clips so far. No problems with shooting or extraction.

not-fishing
07-10-2012, 1:15 PM
A lot of .455 Webley's were cut on the rear of the cylinder to accept .45 ACP in half-moon clips. The .45 Auto Rim cartridge could also be used; but, it's nearly impossible to find.

YMMY

Actually I can use 45 Auto Rims in my 625JM but why bother? Grafs & Sons has Starline brass at $ 22 per 100

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/534?

From TK Custom for Cylinder Machining for moon clips:

http://www.moonclips.com/content/machine.asp

Smith & Wesson

J-Frame 5 Shot .38/.357
K-Frame 6 Shot .38/.357
L-Frame 581, 681, 586, 686, 686+ .357's
396 NG / 696 5 Shot .44Spl
N-Frame 627 NG, 27/28, 57/657, 29/629, & 625 LC.
X-Frame 500, & 460
(.45 LC cylinders can be cut to shoot both ACP and LC)


Ruger

TK Custom will machine ALL S&W & Ruger LCR, SP-101 (.38/357 & .327 Fed. Mag) GP-100 (.38/357 & .327 Fed. Mag)
RedHawk & Super RedHawk cylinders (.44 Mag & .45 LC).
RedHawk & Super RedHawk cylinders (.45 LC to .45 acp clips).

SP101 .38 Spl/357 & .32 Fed. Mag, GP100 .38 Spl/357 & .32 Fed. Mag, Security & Speed -Six, .38/.357, Redhawk & Super Redhawk, .44, .45LC, .454, .480,
*The .454 conversion can allow you to shoot .45acp, .45LC and .454 Casull in a single conversion.

I've heard bad things when you convert a straight walled cartridge to moons. They tend to wobble to much during reloads because of their length. The acp style rounds do not have that problem because of their short length.

But I love my steel moon clips for IDPA. The plastic ones tend to melt when the gun gets hot - and I just don't trust them. :TFH:

artichokie
07-10-2012, 1:34 PM
My 625-8 performance model shoots without clips. It sucks ejecting the cases though.

I use the rimz moonclips. They're easy to use and you dont need any tools for them.

I also use autorim. You can load them indivdually and eject them like a regular revolver. I just find it kinda fun doint it that way .. haha (i currently dont own any other revolver).

scarville
07-10-2012, 2:19 PM
Most autoloading cartridges headspace on the crimp and can be used without moonclips. Ejection can be a problem with a swingout cylinder because, with a couple of exceptions, the ejector star cannot push the empties out. A SA ejects the empties normally.

Calibers designed for revolvers headspace on the rim. If you have a revolver set up correctly for mooclips in 38/357, it will work normally either way.

nitroxdiver
07-10-2012, 10:53 PM
When i had a .45 acp thunder ranch special, I shot without the clips almost exclusively.
If I was shooting steel competition, then Id obviously use the clips for speed.
Always worked. To extract, I just tilted the gun up, usually 4 or 5 empties would fall out. I just picked out any that were stuck. I remember calling s&w to confirm that it was safe to do so prior.

CapnHawk
07-11-2012, 9:51 PM
In 1970-71, when I was partcipating in the South East Asian War Games (the U.S. took the silver medal), I had a 1917 Colt New Service as an unauthorized back-up sidearm. I used .45 ACP ammo without moonclips. I just used a pencil to remove the expended casings until I acquired some half-moon clips.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
07-12-2012, 2:34 PM
My 25-2 (Model 1955) and 325 both fired perfectly well without moon clips. Getting cases out of the 25 was an issue, but they dropped cleanly out of the 325 just by elevating the muzzle.