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Necro55
07-09-2012, 5:00 PM
Hello all,
I am new to Calguns, and just read a lot of documentation and it has left me with a question/concern.

In Spring of 2002 I purchased a SKS RETAIL and have it registered, standard 10 round capacity fed through the top via manual loading or stripper clips. The gun has only one thing that was NOT on it when I purchased it, and that is a retractable bipod mounted on the unused bayonet mount. That is the ONLY addition, and nothing has been removed from the rifle at this point.

It has an older, frankly ugly, fiberglass stock on it, that is bleeding the color dye out of it, and I am wanting to replace it, which brought me to a concern. I read several things about removable magazines, and you have to have a tool to remove it before most other mods can be done.

Now I apologize up front for not having the proper vocabulary, I have been shooting for many years and am self taught in many areas, so unfortunately, proper terminology has been a bit lacking, which I am working on.

Now to my concern. The magazine is effectively 2 pieces, like an inner sleeve that the rounds are up against and an outer shell which has a tensioned bar that the rounds rest on, basically a flat spring. If I pull the release between the magazine and the trigger guard the outer portion of the magazine WILL drop and can be removed easily by squeezing the spring into the magazine “housing”. I can remove it, but its not like I could load rounds into it and put it back into the gun. This appears to be a design simply to be able to clean the magazine, definitely not for quick reloading.

At this point since I can remove it, I am leery of replacing the stock. I want to replace it with a modern pistol-grip with fore-grip stock. The only other item I am wanting to change is my upper receiver cover to the one that has a tri-rail so I can mount my optics on it.

A little advice and clarification if you all don’t mind. I am a law abiding citizen, and I do not want to make a mistake that costs me fines, my guns or my freedoms due to ignorance and misunderstandings.

Thanks all!

paul0660
07-09-2012, 5:08 PM
That is a very well put question. I don't know the answer, but someone will be here soon.

SoCal Bob
07-09-2012, 5:13 PM
Welcome to Calguns. This is the check in area so not everyone looks here for questions. Here are links to the flowcharts: http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf & http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi and the centerfire rifles section: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=67

Necro55
07-09-2012, 6:25 PM
Hello Bob, thanks for thw quick reply, however I have read over the flow chart, and the SKS is registered, waited my 15 days and whatnot when I got it.
I suppose this is more about how the law interperates how this is made. Since I CAN remove the magazine, at least partially (part of the point of concern) without a tool, does that mean no fancy stock? Or since the magazine does not get removed in totality does it still mean it is fixed. This is one of those technicality type things I just wanted to understand, because it can be removed, part of it, but there is no way ammo can be loaded that way does it still count as removable since it does NOT require a bullet button to disassemble it?

Not trying to be senselessly nitpicky, I just don't want to act outside of the law due to a lawmaker being nitpicky :)

furyous68
07-09-2012, 6:34 PM
You have to make sure you are 922r compliant once you start removing/ replacing original equipment with newer modern parts. Even switching out to a standard Monte Carlo stock requires you to be 922r compliant.

Here is a good source: http://www.tapco.com/section922r/

Just double check your parts count.. because Tapco counts the pistol grip. The SKS never had a pistol grip, so you can't use that as one of your compliance parts.

Tapco & a few others make stocks with the features you want, and still work with the fixed magazine. There is even a *****in bulpup conversion that is CA legal & 922r compliant.

The factory magazine is considered fixed.. since you can't simply drop the whole assembly & attach a new, loaded one. You can remove the entire magazine assembly though... which you may have to do in order to change out the stock. Just make sure you re-install it correctly.

bohoki
07-09-2012, 6:39 PM
i'm confused the magazine should not be able to be removed when re assembling did you miss connecting the front of the mag to the barrel hook

my biggest concern is that every fixed standard sks magazine seems to be capable of holding 11

Necro55
07-09-2012, 7:00 PM
@Furyous68
Since mine is all original, does that mean im at 14 parts (no Muzzle extensions, foregrips or pistol grips), out of 10? Forgive the ignorance, but this seems odd to me. If that is the case, would I have to replace original parts with replacement American part to qualify for the 10 or less in order to be legal and/or to add a pistol grip and Fore grip?

@bohoki
my SKS holds 10, cant get any more into it than that. As for the hook, yeah, when I squeeze the spring into the base of the bottom of the magazine I can remove it, and the same to reinstall it. Furyous clarified that aprt for me, I was simply concerned that I could remove it without a tool would have caused some legal issues.

furyous68
07-09-2012, 7:22 PM
The magazine does not completely separate from the receiver when you hit the "mag-release" lever by the trigger guard. The body hinges down. This was designed for cleaning... and also if you get a stuck round. The body hinges down, all the rounds drop, & you can get to the dud/ stuck round from below with the extractor tool that came in the cleaning kits. To completely remove mag the assembly, you have to remove the trigger assembly. If you can remove the entire assembly by just hitting the mag release button, either it is not a factory 10rd mag, or you don't have it installed correctly.

Now.. as for the 922r... you can't have more than 10 foreign/ imported parts on the rifle itself. I'm not sure if the fact that you don't have muzzle extensions factors into that or not. I think it goes by the original configuration... which according to that link I gave you comprises of 17 parts (scroll down a little further on that link & it lists them for you). That means you would have to replace 7 parts.

furyous68
07-09-2012, 7:27 PM
FYI.. Tapco only has 5 compliance parts available for CA:
1. Stock
2. Handguard
3. Pistol Grip (This is arguable)
4. Gas tube
5. Gas Piston
There are a couple companies that make MADE IN THE USA trigger groups, triggers, sears, & compensators. Those would get you to 7 parts.

Pain in the azz, huh?

CSACANNONEER
07-09-2012, 7:56 PM
First of all, your rifle is not registered. The only paper trail is at the shop you bought it from. No government agency knows any more than "you bought some sort of long gun on such and such date".

As far as your rifle goes, can you please post a picture of just your magazine. It should clear up a few tings. If it is truely a detachable mag, you will need to get a stock magazine for it. If your rifle is set up to take AK mags, do not post anymore and contact your attorney.

furyous68
07-09-2012, 8:00 PM
^^ THIS!

Of course... let's not scare the life out of him. It may have a "duck-billed mag... still illegal, but not as bad as the AK mags. All he'd need to do is replace it w/ a factory fixed mag.

Necro55
07-09-2012, 8:27 PM
OK, I can get a pic. But I think im fine, as I stated earlier, Furyous clarified it. But a pic to be sure cant hurt.


I thought the paperwork I filled out when I got the gun from a retail store was the reigstration. I did it when I bought it 10 years ago and never thought of it again.

Now, If I bought it having more than 10 pieces, does that mean it is not legal to shoot until I replace a bunch of stuff? If so, how were these ever sold retail? I would think it would have to be in legal to own/shoot state to sell them retail.

CSACANNONEER
07-09-2012, 8:41 PM
As far as 922(r) goes, it's only illegal to assemble a non compliant rifle. It is not illegal to own, possess or use a non compliant long gun.

bplvr
07-09-2012, 8:54 PM
If your SKS is ALL ORIGINAL it is exempt from 922r if it it qualifies as a
C&R . Is their a date stamp on top of the dust cover ?
If you start replacing parts you will remove it from the 922r exemption.

furyous68
07-09-2012, 8:57 PM
If your SKS is ALL ORIGINAL it is exempt from 922r if it it qualifies as a
C&R . Is their a date stamp on top of the dust cover ?
If you start replacing parts you will remove it from the 922r exemption.

Unless... I believe... he starts changing things on it. A firearm only retains it's C&R status if you leave it in it's original (or restored to original) condition. Besides.. he wants to put a tactical stock on it.. so he's going to need to be 922r compliant. But, he said it came w/ a plastic stock.. so it sounds like a chinese import.

EDIT: Didn't read that last part of your quote.

To the OP... if it is a C&R Russian SKS.. you will be tarred & feathered if you bubba it! :D

CSACANNONEER
07-09-2012, 9:00 PM
Unless... I believe... he starts changing things on it. A firearm only retains it's C&R status if you leave it in it's original (or restored to original) condition.

It only would fall out of "curio" class, if it's over 50 years old, it would still be considered "C&R" by age.

furyous68
07-09-2012, 9:01 PM
Thanks for the clarification... I knew something changed :D

HEY... why are you banned?

socalpistolero
07-09-2012, 9:39 PM
welcome.

bohoki
07-09-2012, 9:53 PM
please send a pic of the magazine you can remove it is possible someone shaved the locking lumps off the back there is basically 2 types ones that have an added plate and those that have it stamped

also can you remove the mag with the bolt forward

if so i think some one was being sneaky shaved the bolt and modded the mag so they could quickly hide their detachables

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e366/bohoki/DCP_0969.jpg

you can compare the lumps the top one is a chinese 5 rounder the lower is an early chinese with the added lump(as seen on most russians)

frankDmole
07-10-2012, 8:30 AM
Welcome to CalGuns, like Bob said you might want to re-post in the correct sub-forum to get more feedback.

Necro55
07-10-2012, 4:36 PM
Hey all, thanks for the info. I do not have a date stamped on the top of the dust cover, however on the inside there is 43 etched into it. Worked late and am doing other stuff atm, btu I will post back in a bit. Asdie from the mag, is there ANYTHNG else it would help to have pics of?
This is NOT my SKS, but, the amgazine is the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SKS_magazine.JPG
As I said, its not somehting I can load externally, I simply wanted to make sure that even though this definitly fits with the point of the law (no fast mag swaps for continues shooting in high volume, cant load extra mags externally) I just wanted to be sure that since i could physically remove it, most of it, that I didnt violate the letter of the law.

If all is fine as it is. I will do more posting here about other parts so I can find out what I need to change to mod it the way I want it. This is a HUGE learning experience for me, and I know I will be FAR more educated for it when I am done, thanks for the help given and the more to come!

CSACANNONEER
07-10-2012, 5:43 PM
Thanks for the clarification... I knew something changed :D

HEY... why are you banned?

I am not att liberty to discuss it until the ban is lifted.