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biogenic
07-09-2012, 2:16 PM
Any positive ( or negative ) experiences using Clays ? I hear is cleaner than w231... True ?

CalTeacher
07-09-2012, 3:47 PM
It's great for .45.

3.7gr of Clays and a 230lrn makes for a very soft shooting and accurate load.

AAShooter
07-09-2012, 3:59 PM
Great for shotgun.

Cowboy T
07-09-2012, 4:07 PM
For non-magnum loads, it's pretty good. You won't get top velocities from it given its burning speed, but for .38 Special, it works beautifully. Seems reasonably clean enough, though I don't let that bother me.

What are you planning to use it in?

biogenic
07-09-2012, 7:35 PM
For non-magnum loads, it's pretty good. You won't get top velocities from it given its burning speed, but for .38 Special, it works beautifully. Seems reasonably clean enough, though I don't let that bother me.

What are you planning to use it in?

45acp/38spcl/9mm. Normally I use 231 but I want to experience with other powders.

Bill Steele
07-09-2012, 7:49 PM
Clays is a very fast powder. It is one of the most cost effective powders to load in your calibers as you can't/don't use very much. That is also why it burns so clean, not much powder in the case.

The downside (or upside depending on how you view it) is the velocities will be at the bottom of the class in your listed calibers.

Cowboy T
07-09-2012, 7:56 PM
45acp/38spcl/9mm. Normally I use 231 but I want to experience with other powders.

Ah, it'll work great for those. When Bullseye (my normal .38 Special powder) went scarce in 2009, Titegroup and Clays were both still readily available. Gave both a try as possible backups, and both of 'em work really well in all three of those applications.

EDIT: Just saw Bill's post. What he said.

Southpaw45
07-09-2012, 8:34 PM
I tried Clays in .45ACP with 230grn cast bullets and it worked great. The down side is that there is no room for error. I say this because the min and max charge is very close together. Example for a .45ACP using 230 grain cast bullets, the minimun charge is 3.5grns and the max charge is 4.0grns. Besides this, Clays burns very clean. Its my second best powder for the .45ACP only to Win 231.

biogenic
07-09-2012, 9:39 PM
Ah, it'll work great for those. When Bullseye (my normal .38 Special powder) went scarce in 2009, Titegroup and Clays were both still readily available. Gave both a try as possible backups, and both of 'em work really well in all three of those applications.
So, Cowboy T, you think I should a bottle of Bullseye just to try it out on my 38s and 9mm ? You think I'll like it better than my w231 ? I am definitely getting a bottle of Clays.

rsrocket1
07-10-2012, 7:56 AM
You want to load Bullseye to a higher velocity (and more recoil) than Clays. Bullseye ignites very fast, but burns to completion more slowly, similar to Unique. If you load Bullseye at low pressures, you'll wind up with lots of unburned flakes and lots of soot. If you load Bulleye closer to max pressure, you'll get much more complete burning, but still end up with soot. It is not a problem with my autoloaders, but it coats the outside of my stainless Ruger revolver black within 50 shots, especially the cylinder. It cleans up easy enough with some Hoppes or CLP.

Clays is a very clean burning powder. In my shotgun loads, even with very low pressure loads (6-7,000 psi), it still leaves the shotgun very clean with no unburned flakes (unlike Red Dot). In pistol rounds, it generates high pressure in low velocity loads so it is great for low recoil rounds but not a good powder if you need higher velocities.

For 9,40,38/357 and 45 a good suite of powders would be:
1. a medium speed powder like Bullseye, Unique, Universal for normal loads
2. a fast powder like Clays, Red Dot, Titegroup for low recoil/lower velocity loads
3. (optional) a powder like Power Pistol, but only if you are trying to squeeze the maximum fps out of the load or are needing it to achieve a power factor in competitive shooting.

dwtt
07-10-2012, 8:38 AM
I used Clays for my trap loads and it worked great for 1 oz of #8 shot, with Winchester hulls and Figure 8 wads. When I tried using it for my 9mm loads in my Browning HiPower, it was unreliable. The Browning liked full power loads to cycle reliably and the Clays just didn't have enough oomph unless I loaded it at the maximum load. Maybe your pistol can tolerate Clays, but mine won't. I tried Winchester 231 for my 9mm loads and my HiPower loves it, cycling reliably and the ammo was pretty accurate. I use only 231 for handgun loads and use Clays only for my 12 ga loads.

rsrocket1
07-10-2012, 11:07 AM
That is a very real possibility. You definitely don't want to increase the charge beyond the recommended level in order to get a gun to cycle properly. You may be getting into dangerous pressure levels. I saw a YouTube video of someone shooting 9mm with Trail Boss. The bullets exited the muzzle fine, but the recoil was so light that it wouldn't cycle the slide. He maxed out the volume in his bullet case so that was the limiting factor.

If you don't get a reliably cycling autoloader with Clays, you simply have to go to a slower powder like Universal or Unique (or 231). My M&P 40 cycles 100% of the time with a 180g TC lead bullet over 3.5g Clays. The recoil seems mostly from the slide going back and forth and hardly from the bullet :). I started with 3.0g Clays but got about 1 in 50 stovepipe (failure to fully eject) so I bumped the load up to 3.5g. Now I have a load that feels like a 9mm when shooting my 40 S&W.

OT- Shotshells:
I've used about 6 pounds of Clays in shotshell loading in the past 3 months and like it very much. I've been reducing my shot load from 1-1/8 to 1 to 7/8th and am now shooting 3/4 oz in 12 ga. I am investigating even faster powders such as Alliant Extra Lite in order to generate higher pressures without moving the shot too much beyond 1300 fps. If that doesn't work out, I will stick with Clays for shotshell and low recoil pistol rounds.

Cowboy T
07-10-2012, 2:16 PM
So, Cowboy T, you think I should a bottle of Bullseye just to try it out on my 38s and 9mm ? You think I'll like it better than my w231 ? I am definitely getting a bottle of Clays.

I don't know if you'd like Bullseye "better" than W231, because 231 is good stuff, too. I'd say give a pound of B'eye a try and see if you like it. It seems to work well from about 14,000 PSI to 21,000 PSI. My light .357M load which uses it leaves the cases so clean I actually don't have to tumble them.