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View Full Version : Signage isn't legally binding?


Kappy
07-08-2012, 11:48 PM
I saw this referenced in another thread... and my CCW instructor said it was a questionable point... is signage legally binding in CA? Say I go to the Oakland Colosseum and they have a sign up... I am free to ignore it and hope they don't bother wanding me?

jimh
07-08-2012, 11:56 PM
there is no penal code restricting it, if they discover and ask you to leave, you must or its tresspassing. What county told you this?

The Original Godfather
07-08-2012, 11:58 PM
The sign itself isnt binding but if authority asks you comply or leave said private property, then you must.

jb7706
07-09-2012, 12:15 AM
I saw this referenced in another thread... and my CCW instructor said it was a questionable point... is signage legally binding in CA? Say I go to the Oakland Colosseum and they have a sign up... I am free to ignore it and hope they don't bother wanding me?

There is no PC that gives those signs any weight of law. You are free to ignore it, they are free to ask you to leave at any time for violating that or any of their policies. As already stated you must leave when asked or face possible trespass charges.

SilverTauron
07-09-2012, 12:26 AM
Do note that some establishments have legal protections forbidding concealed carry , such as colleges. In certain states it is a crime to carry a firearm on a college campus , so a "No Gun" sign on the university's Performing Arts building may have more weight to it than the same outside the local Albertsons. As with all things firearm related, a gun owner must be their own paralegal when it comes to researching the laws on this subject.

Librarian
07-09-2012, 1:56 AM
I saw this referenced in another thread... and my CCW instructor said it was a questionable point... is signage legally binding in CA? Say I go to the Oakland Colosseum and they have a sign up... I am free to ignore it and hope they don't bother wanding me?

That's correct; CA has nothing like, for example, the 30.06 law in Texas.

But as SilverTauron points out, there are places where there is no carry, and they need not be signed. You can take it that any place that wands or uses fixed metal detectors is 'no carry' for all but LEO, and sometimes for LEO as well (e.g. Federal Court).

See the sticky in the LTC forum -- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=338205

Curley Red
07-09-2012, 9:14 AM
Just remember they can ask you to leave and never allow you back in. Do you want to get permanently banned from going to the Colosseum?

spalterego
07-09-2012, 10:11 AM
As to the Oakland Coliseum specifically, please note that it is jointly owned by the City of Oakland and Alameda County and managed by AEG.

As City/County property it MAY [I don't know for sure just pointing out the possibility, the OP can do his own research] be subject to greater restrictions and city/county laws MAY apply. I don't know what the shakeout of Nordyke v. Alameda will be, but we know that Alameda has laws prohibiting firearms at County property.

Although the statements above are correct that "NO GUNS" signs on private property don't create any legal restriction against carrying and merely indicate the owners of the property may ask you to leave if you are carrying (at which time you must leave or face trespassing charges), that may not be the exact situation presented by the Oakland Coliseum.

paul0660
07-09-2012, 10:17 AM
In certain states it is a crime to carry a firearm on a college campus

Not in California with a LTC.

cdtx2001
07-09-2012, 10:21 AM
Just because someone puts up a sign doesn't mean that it will be read by everyone.

FastFinger
07-09-2012, 10:29 AM
Just because someone puts up a sign doesn't mean that it will be read by everyone.

And just because someone doesn't read a sign doesn't mean that the signs's message doesn't apply to them.

RickD427
07-09-2012, 10:49 AM
Just remember they can ask you to leave and never allow you back in. Do you want to get permanently banned from going to the Colosseum?

They can always ask you to leave, and then it's a trespass if you fail to do so.

In order for an owner to permanently "Banish" a person, the person must have been convicted of a violent felony committed on the property (refer to Penal Code section 602(t)). Conviction of a lesser felony may produce a five year banishment and conviction of a misdemeanor can produce a two year banishment. I know that its a common practice of private security folks to inform people they may not legally return to a property, but before believing them, I would refer to the statute.

bohoki
07-09-2012, 12:36 PM
http://i.imgur.com/mSHi8.jpg

Fate
07-09-2012, 1:38 PM
Signs on Federal buildings must be complied with. Can't carry inside buildings within a National Park, like Yosemite, for example.

forgiven
07-09-2012, 4:03 PM
Signs, signs everywhere is sign blocking the scenery....

mrdd
07-09-2012, 6:04 PM
Signs on Federal buildings must be complied with. Can't carry inside buildings within a National Park, like Yosemite, for example.

Yes, but there is a law backing that up. The sign is just a reminder.

I would think that private signs are problematic legally because there is no way to prove in a court of law that a person actually read the sign and understood it. Unless of course they told someone else about it.

advocatusdiaboli
07-09-2012, 6:28 PM
And just because someone doesn't read a sign doesn't mean that the signs's message doesn't apply to them.

It's a legal private property policy notice, not a legally binding contract or regulation. They are warning you of their policy. If you are found in violation, they can ask you to leave or have you arrested if you don't or leave and return. they are just letting you know their policy so you cannot later claim you didn't know. even so, you get a freebie until caught, then you have to leave. And BTW, no way they'll ban you for life, I doubt they surveil every entrance with face recognition that is full accurate...yet.

Kappy
07-09-2012, 6:31 PM
Signs on Federal buildings must be complied with. Can't carry inside buildings within a National Park, like Yosemite, for example.

I had no idea that I couldn't carry in a building on national land.

FastFinger
07-09-2012, 6:35 PM
It's a legal private property policy notice, not a legally binding contract or regulation. They are warning you of their policy. If you are found in violation, they can ask you to leave or have you arrested if you don't or leave and return. they are just letting you know their policy so you cannot later claim you didn't know. even so, you get a freebie until caught, then you have to leave. And BTW, no way they'll ban you for life, I doubt they surveil every entrance with face recognition that is full accurate...yet.

Of course you are correct. I suppose I should have added "... to the extent that the sign is legally enforceable."

hoffmang
07-09-2012, 9:12 PM
All of Alameda county's silly firearms bans exempt those with CA LTCs.

It takes all of my willpower not to stick my behind into the post office when I walk by and shake it for a federal felony however...

-Gene