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SparkYZ
07-08-2012, 5:47 PM
Let's say the wife and I wanted go backpacking out in the wilderness. BLM land. If I wanted a pistol with me incase of a predatory animal, what are my options? I'm assuming it has to be locked and unloaded in a backpack?

ar15robert
07-08-2012, 5:49 PM
Thank the open carry movement!

Now just get a hunting license and say you are hunting game that is open all season.Or silence is golden.

alfred1222
07-08-2012, 5:56 PM
+1 for silence is golden

G60
07-08-2012, 6:04 PM
What county?

Here in Kings County, some of the approved good cause statements for an LTC are for folks that go hiking/camping.

SparkYZ
07-08-2012, 6:22 PM
Likely Kern. But I reside in LA County. A county LTC is only good in that county, correct?

taperxz
07-08-2012, 6:27 PM
If the area of BLM land you are hiking does not prohibit shooting, You are free to LOC (loaded open carry) when you are hiking. Check with the specific area/county codes for any restrictions.

Purple K
07-08-2012, 6:31 PM
As previously stated, loaded open carry is legal in areas where shooting is not otherwise prohibited while hunting. Get a hunting license, something's always in season. As far as a permit to carry concealled is concerned: once you receive a permit, it's valid in all 58 Counties throughout the State.

tbhracing
07-08-2012, 6:36 PM
Tagged

ASTMedic
07-08-2012, 6:37 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. LOC in unincorporated areas where shooting isn't prohibited is legal. Such as national forest and BLM land away from roads and campgrounds.

taperxz
07-08-2012, 6:56 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. LOC in unincorporated areas where shooting isn't prohibited is legal. Such as national forest and BLM land away from roads and campgrounds.

That is correct. (still need to check area rules/regs) The hunting license will allow for concealed carry.

Great resource http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457

sofbak
07-08-2012, 7:13 PM
That is correct. (still need to check area rules/regs) The hunting license will allow for concealed carry.

Doesn't a fishing license allow for concealed carry too? Seems like I recall seeing that somewhere in the penal code from another thread somewhere here.

17+1
07-08-2012, 8:45 PM
If no one knows you're carrying...

sofbak
07-08-2012, 8:58 PM
If no one knows you're carrying...

No, seriously. I found it in the old numbered code:

12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


E(3)(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

IDK if they wrote this out in the re-numbering re-write, but it looks like you can carry unloaded to/from your "fishing hole", and loaded concealed once you get to fishin'.

I'm not good enough to navigate the numbering scheme and hidden gotcha's but at least that is how I read the above. If I made a mistake, someone will be along shortly to burn me at the stake.

taperxz
07-08-2012, 9:15 PM
No, seriously. I found it in the old numbered code:

12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:


E(3)(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

IDK if they wrote this out in the re-numbering re-write, but it looks like you can carry unloaded to/from your "fishing hole", and loaded concealed once you get to fishin'.

I'm not good enough to navigate the numbering scheme and hidden gotcha's but at least that is how I read the above. If I made a mistake, someone will be along shortly to burn me at the stake.

No, you got it right. The fishing thing is ONLY in areas where discharge is legal though. There is also no exemption for UOC while fishing.

bombadillo
07-08-2012, 9:20 PM
What would the point be to carry unloaded while hiking. If a cat, bear, or other predatory animal came up to him and he pulls out an unloaded weapon and starts to load it while being attacked, its too late. Just get a CCW or a hunting license so you can carry concealed while "hunting" if you're hiking and its open season on pigs, rabbits, or any other nuisance animal. Just go that route, it'll keep you out of trouble.

CitaDeL
07-08-2012, 9:29 PM
Just get a CCW or a hunting license so you can carry concealed while "hunting" if you're hiking and its open season on pigs, rabbits, or any other nuisance animal. Just go that route, it'll keep you out of trouble.

Just go get a 'CCW', right. Like going to the store for a quart of milk and a loaf of bread. That's almost as amusing as the people still blaming UOC for restrictions that dont apply in unincorporated territory where this hiking would actually occur.;)

kcstott
07-08-2012, 9:34 PM
Ok I'm in in favor of something being better then nothing. But you better have a big gun when it comes to a bear even a black bear. If it wants to screw you up no typical defensive pistol will do.
44mag, .454 Casull, .460 S&W, .500 S&W, AK Pistol. Etc....
Hard to conceal though...

kcstott
07-08-2012, 9:36 PM
[QUOTE=bombadillo;8895221 Just get a CCW, Just go that route, it'll keep you out of trouble.[/QUOTE]

You're kidding right?? they don't pass those things out like blue chip stamps.

bombadillo
07-08-2012, 10:15 PM
Just go get a 'CCW', right. Like going to the store for a quart of milk and a loaf of bread. That's almost as amusing as the people still blaming UOC for restrictions that dont apply in unincorporated territory where this hiking would actually occur.;)

Depending on where you are, YES. Get a CCW. Take the class, go through the interview and You WILL get a CCW unless you're an idiot or an ex con in Humboldt. Get one here and take it elsewhere. Did you not read the part right after I said "OR GET A FISHING LICENSE." If you live in a communist county like in SF or Orange County, it may be hard so just get a fishing license and do what you have to do, whatever it may be.

Decoligny
07-08-2012, 10:32 PM
Likely Kern. But I reside in LA County. A county LTC is only good in that county, correct?

In Kern County, as long as you are outside of city limits, outside of any GFSZ, and not in a County Park, and not on a public roadyou are in unincorporated territiry where discharge of a firearm is not probibited by law.

That means you are allowed to openly carry a loaded firearm (LOC).

Just be sure you know exactly where you are, and carry a secure locking container in case you have to cross a public road or enter a GFSZ.

A LTC is good statewide. It is a "License to Carry Concealed Pistol, Revolver, or Other Firearm Within the State of California".

tbhracing
07-08-2012, 10:47 PM
You're kidding right?? they don't pass those things out like blue chip stamps.
LOL. Remember those with the picture of the squirrel on them? Good times...

vincewarde
07-08-2012, 10:50 PM
As previously stated, loaded open carry is legal in areas where shooting is not otherwise prohibited while hunting.

Depending upon what you are "hunting" you may need to use softpoint or other expanding ammo. Just as important is the fact that if you are hiking/hunting in the "condor area" your ammo will need to be lead free.

The Original Godfather
07-08-2012, 11:11 PM
God, reading all these damned restrictions/limitations/exemptions and PC makes me want to throw up. Cant wait til our state is free again...

phdo
07-08-2012, 11:17 PM
God, reading all these damned restrictions/limitations/exemptions and PC makes me want to throw up. Cant wait til our state is free again...

Keep waiting. It will not happen, and if it does, it isn't going to be anytime soon.

Aspec5vz
07-08-2012, 11:46 PM
What about ways to carry while in an area where shooting is prohibited, like Yosemite? Can we still do that?

send it_hit
07-09-2012, 10:48 AM
good info in this thread, but i just needed to chime in... it's disgusting these are the lengths we must go to to protect ourselves while enjoying nature.

how sad.

compulsivegunbuyer
07-09-2012, 11:28 AM
You're kidding right?? they don't pass those things out like blue chip stamps.

It's been a long time since I've seen those.

ICONIC
07-09-2012, 11:48 AM
OP is from LA County. So ccw permit is most likely a no go unless he is a celebrity or rich. Sad day when Kim Kardashian is more likely to get a CCW than a person who has been shooting their entire life.

ASTMedic
07-09-2012, 1:51 PM
What about ways to carry while in an area where shooting is prohibited, like Yosemite? Can we still do that?

Have a CCW and stay out of "no guns" posted buildings. Going there next week and I'll be doing just that.

ASTMedic
07-09-2012, 1:59 PM
Why do people keep telling the OP to get a hunting or fishing license? It was stated that hiking would take place on BLM land. So it's just about a given it's unincorporated land. Nothing else is needed. Stay away from roads and any other non shooting areas (not many of those in the sticks) and you're good to go. I and many of my friends carry LOC when in the woods and have had face to face contact with rangers and the like. About 99% of them don't blink an eyelash.

For those other times the info given is helpful.

Rider1k
07-09-2012, 2:03 PM
Why do people keep telling the OP to get a hunting or fishing license? It was stated that hiking would take place on BLM land. So it's just about a given it's unincorporated land. Nothing else is needed. Stay away from roads and any other non shooting areas (not many of those in the sticks) and you're good to go. I and many of my friends carry LOC when in the woods and have had face to face contact with rangers and the like. About 99% of them don't blink an eyelash.

For those other times the info given is helpful.

Me as well.

MudCamper
07-09-2012, 2:13 PM
Why do people keep telling the OP to get a hunting or fishing license?

Because it helps keep you out of trouble when you cross "prohibited areas" and also allows you to carry to/from the BLM/NF land.

taperxz already posted a link to this but all the info you need is here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457).

odysseus
07-09-2012, 2:33 PM
This is one of the most frustrating topics around.

+1 on MudCamper's thread. Check it out. It will not however lower the frustration level, but will clarify the landscape we are in.

forgiven
07-09-2012, 3:41 PM
:gunsmilie:

DrDavid
07-09-2012, 4:29 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. LOC in unincorporated areas where shooting isn't prohibited is legal. Such as national forest and BLM land away from roads and campgrounds.

Ok, what are the rules on this? My wife hikes a lot -- and I'd love for her to be able to carry open and loaded.

Is it just "unincorporated areas" where shooting isn't otherwise illegal? But, what if it's a trailhead a few feet from a named road outside of city limits? You can't shoot there, so is LOC legal or illegal?

MudCamper
07-09-2012, 5:02 PM
Ok, what are the rules on this? My wife hikes a lot -- and I'd love for her to be able to carry open and loaded.

Is it just "unincorporated areas" where shooting isn't otherwise illegal? But, what if it's a trailhead a few feet from a named road outside of city limits? You can't shoot there, so is LOC legal or illegal?

I posted the link to your answers just above.

To answer the specific question, if the trailhead is in NF/BLM then it's likely considered a "developed site" which would make it a "prohibited area" which means you can't load until you get on the trail.

If it's just in "unincorporated territory" in county, then it depends on your county's local ordinances. Is shooting prohibited on roads? near roads? near buildings? You need to know. Usually it's just within X distance of buildings. But is this private property or some kind of public lands?

Nooner7
07-09-2012, 5:16 PM
I just got back from backpacking in the Hoover Wilderness (Humbolt-Toiyabe Nat'l Forest) and open carried the whole time. Had my hunting license in case I was questioned (jack rabbit season is open year round). Ran into a ranger on the trail and he didn't say a word. Was happy to have my G29 10mm as we had bears come into our camp two nights in a row.

locosway
07-09-2012, 10:23 PM
Or silence is golden.

When I was calling around to find out what the local rangers views were on open carrying, no one could give me an answer. Eventually I was put through to a fire chief for some reason, and he told me to just keep it concealed and no one would bother me.

killathrilla
07-09-2012, 10:36 PM
Ur in Cali where animals have more rights than u do so enjoy being eaten.

thomashoward
07-10-2012, 2:12 PM
Eventually I was put through to a fire chief for some reason, and he told me to just keep it concealed and no one would bother me.

The original don't ask don't tell.

Skidmark
07-10-2012, 2:28 PM
I just got back from backpacking in the Hoover Wilderness (Humbolt-Toiyabe Nat'l Forest) and open carried the whole time. Had my hunting license in case I was questioned (jack rabbit season is open year round). Ran into a ranger on the trail and he didn't say a word. Was happy to have my G29 10mm as we had bears come into our camp two nights in a row.

Bears in camp can be a real nuisance. They seem not to come 'round as long as there's no food/trash out that they can smell or see. A few times I've had to scare them off, and loud voice and rocks did the trick.

At least that's true for bears in wilderness. Tahoe bears are another matter entirely.

watsonville
07-10-2012, 3:14 PM
Out of sight out of mind

taperxz
07-10-2012, 3:16 PM
Out of sight out of mind

FAIL

SoCalXD
07-10-2012, 5:12 PM
Thank the open carry movement!

Now just get a hunting license and say you are hunting game that is open all season.Or silence is golden.

"Silence is Golden"??? So, you are willing to suggest someone commit a felony gun crime, but take to task those who legally exercised their 1st and 2nd amendment Rights in the same breath?

Very weak man.

taperxz
07-10-2012, 5:15 PM
"Silence is Golden"??? So, you are willing to suggest someone commit a felony gun crime, but take to task those who legally exercised their 1st and 2nd amendment Rights in the same breath?

Very weak man.

Actually he said it right! Get the hunting license and remain silent about the weapon. You don't have to say you are carrying. If they find it on you, you can pull out the license and say i was hunting ground squirrels or rabbits or coyotes. NOTHING wrong with remaining silent even when packing heat.

Not having the license is a game changer;)

paul0660
07-10-2012, 5:18 PM
felony gun crime,

It wouldn't be a felony, at any rate. Scary word to use, however.

Echidin
07-10-2012, 7:11 PM
What about ways to carry while in an area where shooting is prohibited, like Yosemite? Can we still do that?

http://www.nps.gov/yose/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

"Firearms

As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, visit the California Attorney General's website.

Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal."

AeroEngi
07-10-2012, 7:35 PM
http://www.nps.gov/yose/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

"Firearms

As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, visit the California Attorney General's website.

Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal."

That kinda doesn't make sense. They're allowing you to possess a firearm in the park but you can't discharge it for any reason? What if you're getting attacked by a bear?

gh0stface
07-11-2012, 12:01 AM
Op, I do a lot back country trekking and hunting. If a cat decides you look like food, you mostly likely won't hear it till it's upon you. Most bears are only interested in food, unless cubs are involved, so take precautions with your food and make plenty of noise on the trail to avoid bear encounters. Imo, carrying a firearm for protection from wildlife is not going to give you that much protection from the four-legged critters. With that said, I still carry a Glock 20. It's in case I run into a grow operation or any other undesirable two-legged critters.

You have to read your county's regulations for firearms, but you should be able to LOC on BLM and National Forest land.

MudCamper
07-11-2012, 9:04 AM
http://www.nps.gov/yose/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

"Firearms

As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, visit the California Attorney General's website.

Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal."

Posting partial information is dangerous. What you don't know is that AB144 passed since then, which bans carry in areas where shooting is prohibited, which bans carry in the Parks. See the Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) post.

ASTMedic
07-11-2012, 9:42 AM
Posting partial information is dangerous. What you don't know is that AB144 passed since then, which bans carry in areas where shooting is prohibited, which bans carry in the Parks. See the Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) post.
I'm not trying to but heads with you but how is it partial info if its a full direct quote from the Yosemite NPS page on firearms? I'd rather see this than someone's interpretation of how they think it reads. It states to know the laws before you exercise the right.

AB144 didn't ban all carry in the parks. Exercising ones LTC is legal outside of posted federal buildings.

BigJ
07-11-2012, 9:46 AM
That kinda doesn't make sense. They're allowing you to possess a firearm in the park but you can't discharge it for any reason? What if you're getting attacked by a bear?
I'm not a lawyer, but it does make sense to me. They want the ability to prosecute for any discharge. That doesn't mean they will; if the DA decides the shooting was justified (aka it saved your life) I'd bet charges will be dropped. Short of that, expect to pay some sort of price.

MudCamper
07-11-2012, 9:51 AM
I'm not trying to but heads with you but how is it partial info if its a direct quote from the Yosemite NPS page? I'd rather see this than someone's interpretation of how they think it reads. It states to know the laws before you exercise the right.

AB144 didn't ban all carry in the parks. Exercising ones LTC is legal outside of posted federal buildings.

It's partial because you also must follow state law. This was hashed out ad nauseam in the thread I posted. The Park Service is aware of the "prohibited area" language in PC 26350. It is a violation of 26350 to UOC in a NP in California. You can choose to do otherwise at your peril.

BigJ
07-11-2012, 10:06 AM
It's partial because you also must follow state law. This was hashed out ad nauseam in the thread I posted. The Park Service is aware of the "prohibited area" language in PC 26350. It is a violation of 26350 to UOC in a NP in California. You can choose to do otherwise at your peril.What did your thread determine regarding loaded open carry, unloaded concealed carry or loaded conceal carry?

paul0660
07-11-2012, 10:08 AM
What did your thread determine regarding loaded open carry, unloaded concealed carry or loaded conceal carry?

It takes a little time, but it is worth reading and saving.

BigJ
07-11-2012, 10:11 AM
Roger that. Will do. Here's the link for others' interested: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457

BBJohnnyT
07-11-2012, 10:29 AM
You have to read your county's regulations for firearms, but you should be able to LOC on BLM and National Forest land.

That may be true for BLM, but not for NF. There is no general rule that LOC, or even UOC, is okay in every NF. For instance, in the San Bernardino NF, UOC is illegal everywhere except in a few designated remote shooting areas. See page 12 in the other thread for my experience.

In other words, it's best to check with the supervising LEO for the area you are considering carrying. Each is different and there is no general rule. Yeah, people say, "get a hunting permit and claim you were hunting". Sorry, I'm not willing to use such a flaky excuse and risk adding a federal firearms violation on my record.

shmeare
07-11-2012, 10:32 AM
"Can I possess/carry my handgun/rifle/shotgun openly/loaded/concealed/otherwise when I am hiking/camping/hunting/other in the forest/park/campground/wilderness in California?"

First, it is very important to understand that there are many different types of "forests" and "parks" and they are all run by different government agencies with different restrictions.

Here is a list of the most common types of parks, forests, and public lands, and their respective firearms restrictions:

- National Parks, Federal, National Park Service, US Department of the Interior - firearms now permitted but CA state law applies - see *1
- National Forests, Federal, US Forest Service, US Department of Agriculture - firearms and shooting welcomed but CA state law applies - see *2
- BLM Land, Federal, Bureau of Land Management, US Department of the Interior - firearms and shooting permitted but CA state law applies - see *2
- State Parks, State, California Department of Parks and Recreation - firearms prohibited - see *3
- Regional Parks, some are county owned (example), some are city owned - firearms often prohibited per local ordinance findlaw.com municode.com

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457

MudCamper
07-11-2012, 10:35 AM
In other words, it's best to check with the supervising LEO for the area you are considering carrying. Each is different and there is no general rule.

Actually there are rules. They are all well defined. The confusion you speak of is due to the fact that the FS can post closures, which in turn triggers the "prohibited area" language in CA law.

MudCamper
07-11-2012, 10:38 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457

OK, since you copied that much, lets copy some more. (But I don't understand why it's so difficult to just click on the link.)

"Can I possess/carry my handgun/rifle/shotgun openly/loaded/concealed/otherwise when I am hiking/camping/hunting/other in the forest/park/campground/wilderness in California?"

First, it is very important to understand that there are many different types of "forests" and "parks" and they are all run by different government agencies with different restrictions.

Here is a list of the most common types of parks, forests, and public lands, and their respective firearms restrictions:

- National Parks (http://www.nps.gov/state/ca/index.htm), Federal, National Park Service, US Department of the Interior - firearms now permitted (http://home.nps.gov/news/release.htm?id=962) but CA state law applies - see *1
- National Forests (http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/), Federal, US Forest Service, US Department of Agriculture - firearms and shooting welcomed (http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/trails/welcome.shtml) but CA state law applies - see *2
- BLM Land (http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en.html), Federal, Bureau of Land Management, US Department of the Interior - firearms and shooting permitted (http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/prog/recreation/hunting.print.html) but CA state law applies - see *2
- State Parks (http://www.parks.ca.gov/), State, California Department of Parks and Recreation - firearms prohibited - see *3
- Regional Parks, some are county owned (example (http://www.sonoma-county.org/parks/)), some are city owned - firearms often prohibited per local ordinance findlaw.com (http://california.lp.findlaw.com/CA01_codes/municode.html) municode.com (http://www.municode.com/library/ClientListing.aspx?stateID=5)

*1 - The firearms prohibition in NPs and NWRs was lifted on 2/22/10. See the "Important Notes" about HR 267 in the second post for more details.
*1 - UOC of handguns is not legal in NPs effective 1/1/12 as a result of AB144 (PC 26350)
*1 - UOC of long guns is legal, except in federal facilities (buildings with federal employees and no-firearms signs posted)
*1 - LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)
*1 - Since NPs can be near/within urban areas, school zones can be an issue. Unlocked/operable firearms are not allowed within 1000 feet of a K-12 school.
*1 - CA CCW/LTC permit holders may LCC anywhere in NPs except in federal facilities.

*2 - LOC and UOC are legal everywhere except "prohibited areas" (areas where shooting is prohibited)
*2 - LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)
*2 - Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site, or on/across a road or body of water ("prohibited areas")
*2 - consensus opinion is that UOC of handguns is now illegal in "prohibited areas" of NF/BLM (AB144 / PC 26350) not all agree (PC 26388) (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=7297489#post7297489)
*2 - Forest administrators have the authority (http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title36/36-2.0.1.1.18.2.html) to prohibit shooting (http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title36/36-2.0.1.1.18.2.29.9.html) in other areas of the NF but must clearly post this information (more "prohibited areas")
*2 - BLM administrators may post closures and restrictions (http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title43/43-2.1.1.8.109.5.html) regarding firearms use (more "prohibited areas")
*2 - LCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, but only where shooting is not prohibited (PC 25640)
*2 - UCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen while hunting/fishing and while traveling to/from hunting/fishing expeditions (PC 25640)
*2 - UOC is legal for licensed hunters while hunting and while traveling to/from hunting expeditions (PC 26366)
*2 - CA CCW/LTC permit holders may LCC in NF/BLM

*3 - firearms permitted in vehicles and temporary lodgings when unloaded and "packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use"
*3 - CA CCW/LTC permit holders may apparently LCC (http://www.calccw.com/Forums/where-can-t-i-carry/1103-can-i-carry-ca-state-park.html) firearms in California State Parks

paul0660
07-11-2012, 10:41 AM
I don't understand why it's so difficult to just click on the link

hehe.

MC, you are da MAN.

shmeare
07-11-2012, 11:07 AM
ppl are lazy... lol

hehe.

MC, you are da MAN.

Monticore
07-11-2012, 11:32 AM
I've read a couple times now that the fear of carrying illegally is that it would result in a felony.
Unless things have changed, I thought it was a double misdemeanor:
One for the carrying concealed and one for it being loaded
The gun would need to be registered to you or else it would be a felony.

Is the "felony fear" that people have more about where the gun is carried than how? Like in GFSZ'z.

ASTMedic
07-11-2012, 11:35 AM
It's partial because you also must follow state law. This was hashed out ad nauseam in the thread I posted. The Park Service is aware of the "prohibited area" language in PC 26350. It is a violation of 26350 to UOC in a NP in California. You can choose to do otherwise at your peril.

You're side stepping my point. You bring up ONLY UOC and LOC as though those are the only two options of how to carry. Saying that carrying is prohibited is no the full story if you know the restricted areas and have a LTC.

The thread you started is very good at explaining the current situation from all sides. I just wanted it to be clear for the LTC folks inside this thread as it applies to the NP.

ns3v3n
07-11-2012, 11:50 AM
You're better off with Bear spray.

ASTMedic
07-11-2012, 2:13 PM
You're better off with Bear spray.

That's a no no in Yosemite

Skidmark
07-11-2012, 2:17 PM
That's a no no in Yosemite

Correct :thumbsup:

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm

taperxz
07-11-2012, 2:28 PM
You're side stepping my point. You bring up ONLY UOC and LOC as though those are the only two options of how to carry. Saying that carrying is prohibited is no the full story if you know the restricted areas and have a LTC.

The thread you started is very good at explaining the current situation from all sides. I just wanted it to be clear for the LTC folks inside this thread as it applies to the NP.

Having an LTC starts up a whole new set of rules, those of the LTC. If the local jurisdiction posts "no firearms allowed". Then not even an LTC is legal. As MC advised, the rules in CA are the rules to be followed in a NP, NF, or BLM. Rules for an LTC are to be followed as the government has set forth.

Echidin
07-11-2012, 2:32 PM
Posting partial information is dangerous. What you don't know is that AB144 passed since then, which bans carry in areas where shooting is prohibited, which bans carry in the Parks. See the Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) post.

If you want to view it as partial information that's fine, I won't argue that point. He asked a question, I posted a link to Yosemite's laws and policies for him to begin investigating to find his answer.

Included in the original quote taken from the NPS website: "It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, visit the California Attorney General's website." This includes AB144 which falls under State law. Although, I will agree I should have taken the time to indicate this in my previous post.

paul0660
07-11-2012, 2:39 PM
If the local jurisdiction posts "no firearms allowed". Then not even an LTC is legal

Taper, did you misspeak? Illegal is not correct.

taperxz
07-11-2012, 2:46 PM
Taper, did you misspeak? Illegal is not correct.

If "no firearms is posted" you can not carry even with an LTC. See Genes suit v San Mateo county

ASTMedic
07-11-2012, 4:01 PM
If "no firearms is posted" you can not carry even with an LTC. See Genes suit v San Mateo county

To my knowledge, and I could need reeducation, but if your LTC says you can't carry in a posted area and you're caught doing so then the issuing agency can pull your LTC. If no restriction and you carry the most that can be done is to ask you to leave and if you don't your trespassing. This doesn't apply to federal buildings, that's another situation.

ASTMedic
07-11-2012, 4:05 PM
If the local jurisdiction posts "no firearms allowed". Then not even an LTC is legal

What local jurisdiction are you speaking of? Local LEA?

taperxz
07-11-2012, 4:09 PM
It could be FED, State, county, or local municipality. When entering these properties owned by them, they can and have restricted firearms on that property.

For instance the feds don't allow firearms on Post Office property. TO, San Mateo county doesn't allow firearms at their county parks. Peninsula Open Space also prohibits firearms. This includes LTC's. Its a policy/law not an LEA decision.

taperxz
07-11-2012, 4:11 PM
To my knowledge, and I could need reeducation, but if your LTC says you can't carry in a posted area and you're caught doing so then the issuing agency can pull your LTC. If no restriction and you carry the most that can be done is to ask you to leave and if you don't your trespassing. This doesn't apply to federal buildings, that's another situation.

I think in the case of San Mateo you could be charged. Its a local prohibition on firearms and not a trespass violation.

ASTMedic
07-11-2012, 4:23 PM
I think in the case of San Mateo you could be charged. Its a local prohibition on firearms and not a trespass violation.

Could you point me towards that case? I can't seem to find it.

I didn't think they could rewrite CA law? The LTC is good CA wide. If that was the case a city could say "no guns in town"

taperxz
07-11-2012, 4:26 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=490930

Here ya go.

taperxz
07-11-2012, 4:27 PM
Could you point me towards that case? I can't seem to find it.

I didn't think they could rewrite CA law? The LTC is good CA wide. If that was the case a city could say "no guns in town"

No, not quite. Its seems to be county land specific. I don't think its legal but the county seems to think so.

ASTMedic
07-11-2012, 5:01 PM
No, not quite. Its seems to be county land specific. I don't think its legal but the county seems to think so.

Not that I'm willing to be a test subject but I think that would be hard to convict on. My county and surrounding ones are very pro LTC and gun so I'm ok.

Edit:

I looked through the thread. Geez, the stuff that judges do blows me away. Oh well, chess not checkers. (best analogy I've ever heard for the pro gun fight)

MudCamper
07-11-2012, 8:25 PM
The thread you started is very good at explaining the current situation from all sides. I just wanted it to be clear for the LTC folks inside this thread as it applies to the NP.

I had no idea you were referring to LTC holders. An LTC is a magical golden unicorn where I live. Never will be able to get one. So my mistake.

So in your case, assuming you have an LTC, yes you can LCC in the NPs accept in federal facilities (buildings with federal employees).

Lugiahua
07-11-2012, 8:35 PM
Correct :thumbsup:

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm

ah, last time I was in Yosemite, I saw at least 10 people with their spray on keychain.
But guess I will leave mine behind for next visit.

ASTMedic
07-11-2012, 8:58 PM
I had no idea you were referring to LTC holders. An LTC is a magical golden unicorn where I live. Never will be able to get one. So my mistake.

So in your case, assuming you have an LTC, yes you can LCC in the NPs accept in federal facilities (buildings with federal employees).

Tis my plan ;) We leave next Tues for 3 nights. Bet the place will be packed.