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View Full Version : Would like to get Russian rifle... what are my options in California?


Chrushev
07-06-2012, 12:00 PM
Id like to get an AK style rifle... what are my options living in California?

sprig
07-06-2012, 12:23 PM
VEPR

zfields
07-06-2012, 12:31 PM
Saiga.

MiddleKingdom
07-06-2012, 1:03 PM
I've shot my friend's Saiga. It was very fun to shoot. Does it need to be Russian or just an AK variant? Have you considered an AK build party?

Donkeypunch0420
07-06-2012, 1:03 PM
^ And those are your two options. Can't really go wrong with either one. Buy one and enjoy!

APOCALYPSE70
07-06-2012, 1:05 PM
Saiga, Russian SKS, or Vepr.

Capybara
07-06-2012, 1:40 PM
The Saiga is good, the SKS/AK very good and the VEPR, I am in heavy lust with. All excellent weapons.

And I can't believe that people didn't mention the Mosin, although, yes, it is more like the great grandaddy of the AK type rifle, not really an AK rifle itself.

Watch this, you will want a VEPR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1aruqM7Py8 and the kick ***, manly 7.62x54R round is .15 ea.

asketes
07-06-2012, 1:53 PM
I've just settled on a Saiga IZ 132 7.62x39, though I've done hours and hours of research and talking with shooter friends.

I toyed with the idea of a VEPR, a Saiga, an SKS, a Mosin Nagant, and even a few ARs but ended up deciding that what I'm looking for - cheap, powerful, & durable - the Saiga fit my needs perfectly.

Here's a vid (kind of windy and noisy from background elements) and the lighting isn't ideal, but the video is half-decent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOf4BAZgEOs

In the end it's up to you to make your decision. Saiga 7.62x39mm is pretty tough to find right now, I'm driving about 80 miles to put the money down and start the background check.

*EDIT* I probably wouldn't recommend going for the 5.45x39 caliber rifles as it's not a common round found in stores. It may be available online a bit, but if you need some for a last-minute shooting adventure you'll probably be hard pressed to find that particular round in stores or gun shops.

hermosabeach
07-06-2012, 2:19 PM
I picked up the saiga IZ-340 from atlantic firearms
It has a mini14/ m1a configuration so you do not need a mag lock

I found that the mag locks on AKs are awkward at best

The downside is that with the trigger moved to the rear, the first shot is a long trigger pull

With trigger reset, the follow up are crisp

Chrushev
07-06-2012, 2:35 PM
So, what limitations does California put on them? Is anything banned other than locked magazine?

No full auto right? 10 rounds max? What else?

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 2:37 PM
check the flow-chart.

certain named rifles are banned no matter what you do, and you must either make sure your centerfire, semi-automatic, detachable magazine has no features that define it as an AW, or install a magazine locking device which requires a non-attached tool to remove limited to 10 rounds.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

BlackonBlack
07-06-2012, 2:40 PM
C'mon man do a little searching before you ask about full auto and mag capacity in California. My mom knows those laws and she doesn't even own guns.

SKS Rifles, AK47's/AK74, Saigas, AKM, Mosin Nagant are just a few readily available CA legal Russian-esque rifles.


So, what limitations does California put on them? Is anything banned other than locked magazine?

No full auto right? 10 rounds max? What else?

arslin
07-06-2012, 2:53 PM
The standard Saiga will not take a AK mag, and the Mags that work with it are costly. If you want a true Russian firearm. Get a converted Siaga. I personally got a Century Arms convert. That is where an american company takes a Saiga, moves the trigger back to the proper place, and replaces a few parts for stupid regulation compliance. There are other makers that do the same thing. Arsenal firearms is another option, and is generally considered the "best" Saiga converter. It comes out looking like a modern AK.

asketes
07-06-2012, 2:56 PM
C'mon man do a little searching before you ask about full auto and mag capacity in California. My mom knows those laws and she doesn't even own guns.

SKS Rifles, AK47's/AK74, Saigas, AKM, Mosin Nagant are just a few readily available CA legal Russian-esque rifles.

There is a lot of info out there and some of it is either incorrect or so vague it's tough to find out.

Here's a link you can hand out when someone who doesn't know where to look asks.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/forms/awguide.pdf?

Chrushev
07-06-2012, 2:57 PM
The standard Saiga will not take a AK mag, and the Mags that work with it are costly. If you want a true Russian firearm. Get a converted Siaga. I personally got a Century Arms convert. That is where an american company takes a Saiga, moves the trigger back to the proper place, and replaces a few parts for stupid regulation compliance. There are other makers that do the same thing. Arsenal firearms is another option, and is generally considered the "best" Saiga converter. It comes out looking like a modern AK.

Out of curiosity.. why do they move the trigger? Also whats a good price for one of those Saigas?

asketes
07-06-2012, 2:57 PM
The standard Saiga will not take a AK mag, and the Mags that work with it are costly. If you want a true Russian firearm. Get a converted Siaga. I personally got a Century Arms convert. That is where an american company takes a Saiga, moves the trigger back to the proper place, and replaces a few parts for stupid regulation compliance. There are other makers that do the same thing. Arsenal firearms is another option, and is generally considered the "best" Saiga converter. It comes out looking like a modern AK.

From what I've heard (only heard from different forums, I've never looked personally) buying a converted Saiga runs A LOT more than buying one unconverted and either doing it yourself or getting the gear you need and having your local gunshop do the work.

I could be wrong, just relaying some of what I've read.

But yes I agree with arslin; when you're able to, convert that bad boy! Just make sure to do it the right way.

Found this link in another calguns.net thread
http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

arslin
07-06-2012, 3:33 PM
From what I've heard (only heard from different forums, I've never looked personally) buying a converted Saiga runs A LOT more than buying one unconverted and either doing it yourself or getting the gear you need and having your local gunshop do the work.

I could be wrong, just relaying some of what I've read.

But yes I agree with arslin; when you're able to, convert that bad boy! Just make sure to do it the right way.

Found this link in another calguns.net thread
http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

I was going to do the conversion myself, but the century arms was darn near the price I would have paid.

As to why move the trigger... some say the balance if off with a monte carlo stock. Some say the trigger on the stock Saiga sucks. I just say that it just not' look right.

arslin
07-06-2012, 3:37 PM
as to the price.

http://www.parallaxtactical.com/store/century-arms-saiga-semi-automatic-762x39-16-black-synthetic-2416.html

http://www.parallaxtactical.com/store/saiga-7-62x39-16-rifle-w-10rd-magazine-1326.html

The difference is that century arms installs a bullet guide (that lets you use a standard AK mag), the trigger, and the stock, and the pistol grip. I added up each of the parts cost, and it was about break even... so I let someone else do the work.

Travis590A1
07-06-2012, 10:26 PM
When I read this thread I can't help but think another 18 year old wants an AK like in MW3,First gun should be a .22 not a russian assault type rifle. Just saying

zfields
07-06-2012, 10:40 PM
When I read this thread I can't help but think another 18 year old wants an AK like in MW3,First gun should be a .22 not a russian assault type rifle. Just saying

First rifle I bought was an AK. I seem to he doin just fine.

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

Travis590A1
07-06-2012, 11:17 PM
There are always exceptions, its just not usually the best option. Plus your in texas, texans are born with a gun in their hands lol

zfields
07-06-2012, 11:29 PM
Born and raised in CA, either way I learned on grandpa's bolt 22.

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

Travis590A1
07-06-2012, 11:32 PM
I rest my case ;)

zfields
07-06-2012, 11:35 PM
He could have also. :)

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

Socalman
07-07-2012, 9:31 AM
C'mon man do a little searching before you ask about full auto and mag capacity in California. My mom knows those laws and she doesn't even own guns.

SKS Rifles, AK47's/AK74, Saigas, AKM, Mosin Nagant are just a few readily available CA legal Russian-esque rifles.

Did you consider the fact that the OP IS DOING RESEARCH? That is the reason for his post.

Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese
07-07-2012, 10:52 AM
Russian rifles/Russian like rifles - ak's, SKS, saigas, PSL, vepr, SVD dragunov, mosin nagant, etc. There's much more but those are some of the popular types

Revolver Ocelot
07-07-2012, 10:58 AM
Did you consider the fact that the OP IS DOING RESEARCH? That is the reason for his post.

I wouldn't call asking to be soon fed all the answers that most purple are able to search for and find on their own "research".

dre147
07-07-2012, 12:07 PM
WASR 10/63

sean michael
07-07-2012, 3:41 PM
PSL, FPK or Romak 3 are all good choices :). Get one if you can.

Travis590A1
07-07-2012, 3:45 PM
Change the long gun age to 22! ;)

Mamluke
07-07-2012, 3:52 PM
My Russian granny will soon hand me down her Russian RPG 7 ... :43:

http://www.awcbee.com/images/rpg3.jpg


.... and I already own an AK, so I'll be content with my Russian arsenal ... :D

....

....

Paltik
07-07-2012, 5:29 PM
Out of curiosity.. why do they move the trigger? Also whats a good price for one of those Saigas?

They moved the trigger so it would feel natural when using a sporter buttstock, I believe. However, the AK configuration calls for a pistol grip; the trigger group is moved back forward during conversion to make room for the pistol grip. Since this is the original design, the trigger pull should feel nicer after a conversion job.

I'm seeing Saigas going for $420 and up right now, but they can still get under $400 in a good sale. They come in 5.45x39 (ala AK74), .223 (Saigas in .223 can also take 5.56 NATO), 7.62x39, .308, and in .410, 20, and 12-guage shotguns. I've heard (not confirmed) the 5.45s take AK74 mags, but the .223s and 7.62s need to be modified or adapted for AR15 or AK47 mags.

Now for a question of my own: why hasn't anybody mentioned WASRs?

Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese
07-07-2012, 5:34 PM
Dre147 already mentioned it. OP, any interest in building your own in a calgun build party?

rero360
07-07-2012, 5:34 PM
Would like to get Russian rifle

You don't get Russian rifle, Russian rifle get you. :D

Mamluke
07-07-2012, 5:46 PM
You don't get Russian rifle, Russian rifle get you. :D
Kinda similar to what my grandpa said about Russian women; you don't get even with Russian women ... they get even with you... :43:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9amtd0F54Ko5BG_rqBo9pni1B67Ysv E1UHnf1_4QWNAgaJ4eAs86JBMORAA

RIP grandpa ..... sigh



.... :D


....

sffred
07-08-2012, 1:38 PM
Saiga ak103, vepr, psl, draganov, norinco, or if you are willing to learn, buy a flat stamped receiver from solar tactical and just enroll in a build party!

Chrushev
07-09-2012, 9:38 AM
Thanks everyone for an incredible amount of feedback. I had no idea that there is such a huge selection in California with its retarded laws.

Friend of mine asked the other day...

Friend: so.. on a Saiga you have a locking mechanism that is held by 1 hex screw right?
Me: Yep
Friend: if you were going to use it against police, SWAT or military or whatever... wouldnt you just remove the screw and have a detachable magazine? Or jam something in there? Or easily modify it by some other means to make it detachable...
Me: Yep...
Friend: sooooooo whats the point of the law then?
Me: Cuz they are retarded.

Anyways... back on topic now...
I am now thinking of getting a wood Saiga fitted for Nato rounds (price and availability per round) , and perhaps a Saiga 12 for home defense purposes.

Richard Erichsen
07-09-2012, 10:07 AM
So, what limitations does California put on them? Is anything banned other than locked magazine?

No full auto right? 10 rounds max? What else?

Oy! Review the flowcharts at the top of the page with what is covered under the various laws applicable to the subject at hand. Read up on going featureless vs. featured and decide which path you want to take.

R

Richard Erichsen
07-09-2012, 10:12 AM
Thanks everyone for an incredible amount of feedback. I had no idea that there is such a huge selection in California with its retarded laws.

Friend of mine asked the other day...


You should consider modifying the post above or deleting it. None of us like these laws, but you need to know them and live by them.

R

zfields
07-09-2012, 10:14 AM
Thanks everyone for an incredible amount of feedback. I had no idea that there is such a huge selection in California with its retarded laws.

Friend of mine asked the other day...

Friend: so.. on a Saiga you have a locking mechanism that is held by 1 hex screw right?
Me: Yep
Friend: if you were going to use it against police, SWAT or military or whatever... wouldnt you just remove the screw and have a detachable magazine? Or jam something in there? Or easily modify it by some other means to make it detachable...
Me: Yep...
Friend: sooooooo whats the point of the law then?
Me: Cuz they are retarded.

Anyways... back on topic now...
I am now thinking of getting a wood Saiga fitted for Nato rounds (price and availability per round) , and perhaps a Saiga 12 for home defense purposes.



I think you need to find new friends. It's that kind of BS mentality that hurts gun ownership.

arslin
07-09-2012, 10:24 AM
...
Me: Cuz they are retarded.

Anyways... back on topic now...
I am now thinking of getting a wood Saiga fitted for Nato rounds (price and availability per round) , and perhaps a Saiga 12 for home defense purposes.
Maybe the criminal that is really to break a law that will send him to jail for the rest of his life will thing twice before breaking another law that will add 10 years to his... oh wait. never mind.

Chrushev
07-09-2012, 12:04 PM
I didnt mean to offend anyone, I was just saying that if someone wants a full auto illigal AK47 they can easily get or make one. Was just expressing my opinion that the laws hurt the honest and law abiding citizen and not the crook. A crook is already planning to break the law, and if he plans to use firearms chances are he is breaking it in such a way that he will end up on death row or with life in prison anyways... That homeboy running on the streets of LA with an UZI shooting up people for wearing wrong colors doesnt give a crap about the law (obviously). If you are shooting at police or SWAT or military or whatever.. it doesnt matter if you are shooting from a 10 round locked magazine or 500 round Drum on full auto... penalty is basically the same.. death or life in prison. Same goes for killing someone... does it really matter if the bad guy killed someone with a single shot mini mag or a full auto 30 round AR with magazines taped with electrical tape?? Fact is, person is dead, and the laws didnt save them, and the criminal will get the same punishment regardless.

I think big part of what I said was, that I really had no answer for my friend... he had a logical question as someone who doesnt own guns or really doesnt have any interest in them.

What would happen if US got invaded? Not likely anytime soon... but lets say somehow in 50 years.. by china or some sort of coalition... will the limited firearms be sufficient to protect ourselves? I mean hell yeah they are better than nothing... but are they sufficient?

Noone plans or wants to break any laws, some laws are just silly, and its unfortunate that we have to abide by them... either way, we are more free than 90% of the world :)

PEZHEAD265
07-09-2012, 12:27 PM
Well when you put that stuff in writing on a public forum where DOJ and BATF lurk it makes it sound like you are the crazy criminal type.

barca101
07-09-2012, 12:32 PM
I'm looking and researching AKs myself. Next to the Russian, look at the Bulgarian, yugo, and Chinese AKs, there suppose to be good rifles also.

someR1
07-09-2012, 1:19 PM
SKS, VEPR, Saiga, WASR10...

dc2integra
07-09-2012, 5:06 PM
Saiga,WASR there posts of options out there.

f4irder2
08-12-2012, 9:28 PM
Quick question, how is a featureless Saiga rifle not considered a catagory 2 assault weapon? Isn't it specifically listed on DOJ's assault weapon guide?