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EvolutionGSR
07-06-2012, 10:57 AM
Hello, I just assembled my first accurate ar-15 spr style with SS barrel. I am having a hard time being a consistent shot as I was with a rem700 bolt action. With the 700, it was a .308, ar is a 5.56, if that makes a huge difference. With the rem 700, all my shots would touch being about .5-.75 moa. Loaded one at a time. Using Fed GMM. With the AR, using BH 77grn, ill get 2 or 3 shots sub moa, then ill get a flier about 1-1.5 inches away, then a shot back into the first sub moa 2-3 first shots, and then another filer, so on until the mag empties. I never had this consistency problem with the 700. Both are using front bipod and rear sandbag. Rem had a Leupold 4-16 precision rifle line (looks like its not made anymore) and the ar has a nxs 2.5-10. My first instinct is that i just need to practice consistency. Once I get a good 3 shot group (once i got a good 4 shot group) maybe i get nervous and think im going to screw up the group? Is it most likely my trigger pull with the AR? Any pointers or recommendations that someone lookimg from the outside can tell me?

Thanks.

SocomM4
07-06-2012, 11:11 AM
What trigger are you using, i would suggest a nice 2-stage trigger and see how you do. Try different bullet weights .

ripcurlksm
07-06-2012, 11:12 AM
factors could be:
- bolts have no moving parts when a shot is fired = more consistent
- trigger
- 556 smaller round, wind factor?
- your ar has a lower max power scope, which *could* make things a little off if youre not exact

drop in a match trigger and keep shooting

Kappy
07-06-2012, 11:15 AM
It's likely a need for more practice.

Two different guns have two different triggers. Unload the rifle and really compare the triggers with some dry fires.

Does the gun like 77gn bullets? Perhaps you should try different bullets. Even if you're matching the twist to the bullet, it may like something else. My AR should like a heavy bullet (70gn or so) but it seems to shoot best with a 40gn bullet. Even 55gn pushes me almost out of MOA grouping.

I can't comment on your optics.

I hope that helps.

joelogic
07-06-2012, 11:16 AM
I think this is why bolt actions still rule precision shooting.

EvolutionGSR
07-06-2012, 11:25 AM
The trigger is a Geiselle SSA, forgot to mention. I prefer the SSA weight to the Ssa-e weight. Ill try some lighter bullet weights next time, thanks for suggestion.

ocabj
07-06-2012, 12:11 PM
Are you calling your shots true? If so, then it's a rifle or ammo issue, and not operator issue.

VooDooV
07-06-2012, 12:21 PM
possabilities,, 5.56 barrel heats faster, AR barrel is thinner then Rem 700.

EvolutionGSR
07-06-2012, 5:06 PM
Ocabj, what does calling shots true mean?

I did some googling, trying to understand what you meant. I can feel right when the trigger breaks if I had a bad pull. Im right handed, and I feel the jerk to the left sometimes. I'm laying prone, and pulling the rifle back into my shoulder. Should I not be pulling the rifle? I no longer own the 700, so I can't compare what I did with it to what I do now.

FLIGHT762
07-06-2012, 5:23 PM
Ocabj, what does calling shots true mean?

I think you just answered his question.


He's asking you if can call your shots, knowing where your sights are in relationship to you target/ aiming point when the trigger breaks. Knowing when you throw one or know when you are on your target perfectly when the trigger breaks.

EvolutionGSR
07-06-2012, 5:31 PM
I think you just answered his question.


He's asking you if can call your shots, knowing where your sights are in relationship to you target/ aiming point when the trigger breaks. Knowing when you throw one or know when you are on your target perfectly when the trigger breaks.

Thanks, looks like I wasn't done editing by the time you answered. If I can at least narrow it down to it being my trigger pull, which honestly I hope that's what it is, I'll be forced to go practice more...haha.

ocabj
07-06-2012, 10:24 PM
Yes, FLIGHT762 indicated what I meant.

You need to be able to say where exactly your shot is going to hit before you even check your spotting scope. I'll admit, I'm not perfect like some shooters. Good shooters will be able to say, "Just inside the outer 10-ring, 4:30" or, "solid X, 9:00" (on an NRA SR target, 200 yard High Power). I can usually call the score and location, but I'm not good enough to call the degree in which it's in a given scoring ring (like whether or not it hit the line between X and 10, or how far from the line the shot is).

Anyway, being able to call shots is critical in shot correction. If you are inaccurate in your shot call, you'll never be able to correct your followup shot effectively (or if you even need to correct your next shot), nor will you be able to determine if your firearm/ammo is at fault, or you, for a given shot.

Personally, I'd stretch the push the distance a little for testing ammo and equipment. 300 yards is a good balanced distance to be able to determine ammo performance in a gun.

HK Dave
07-06-2012, 10:51 PM
How tight is the lower to upper fit? How is your trigger release and follow up?

EvolutionGSR
07-06-2012, 11:08 PM
Thanks OC, i have access to 200 yard paper, ill try further out and buy some NRA targets.

Upper to lower fit is fine. My pull is always held for a slight moment, then released.

Army
07-07-2012, 1:34 PM
You're not getting a flyer, you're bending your rifle. AR15/M16's are palstic and aluminum, they are simply not as stiff or structurally strong as an all steel rifle bolted/strapped/pinned to a solid wood stock. So:

Lose the bipod and rear bag (your weight on the buttstock is bending the rifle between the small support points of the bag and bi-pod). Insert a 30 round length magazine, and place the end of magazine on bench...this is your new rest. Non-firing hand pulls back on magazine well, BUT does NOT grip the well, only pulls the rifle to your shoulder. Your fingers should be relaxed, with only the palm area on the well.

Firing hand grips high (handgun style grip) so there is no light, or space, between the web and the buttstock bottom. Shooting finger goes far into the trigger guard, using the second pad or joint to add pressure to the trigger (you have more and larger muscles there, making trigger manipulation easier and more controlled). Keep the trigger to the rear after the shot, only releasing when the recoil and noise has ended.

If you only have 20/10/5 round size magazines, use a sand bag to set the magazine onto to raise the rifle to your eye.

This will eliminate nearly all outside influences to the dynamics of the firing rifle and allow it to flex and bend itself naturally, but almost the same every shot. It is impossible for you to hold the rifle the exact same way when supported by bags or a bipod, as you cannot calculate the same weight or pressure you put on the rifle for each shot.

The magazine rest eliminates almost all lateral movement, and the rear pressure and high grip remove almost all horizontal movement. Granted, it is not a perfectly steady as everything bagged up, but you've taken away all the bad things about bags too.

This method only works well with Ar/m16 rifles. Normal fully supported guns need not apply.

jcslone
07-07-2012, 6:34 PM
I'd disagree with Army about how to rest your rifle...I've always been taught (by both civilian and USMC Marksmanship Team shooters) that you never, ever rest your magazine on the ground/table/whatever. Doing so can lead to feeding problems and it does negatively affect your accuracy. If you really want to lock down your rifle and test it's accuracy get a bench sled for it. If you don't want to spend the money on that get a good bipod (Harris at the low end, Atlas on the higher end), assume a good prone position on the ground, and practice that way.

Focus on your fundamentals, in the Corps we've got a nifty little acronym for them, SGSTAB...Stance, Grip, Sight Alignment, Trigger Control, (natural point of) Aim, and Breathing.
-Your stance should be completely natural and not forced. Wiggle yourself around on the ground until you're comfortable.
-Grip: what Army said about having your hand high on the pistol grip is correct. Your non-shooting hand should either be under your buttstock, helping to support it in your shoulder, or on the ground where it will not affect the rifle.
-Sight Alignment: this is mainly a iron sight consideration but with an optic make sure you focus on the reticule and not on the target or your shots will be off.
-Trigger control...squeeze it like a lemon, slow and smooth. Shoot over and over again until you learn where the breaks and slack in your trigger are and exactly how much pressure you need to set her off. The shot should surprise you.
-Aim...at the end of your exhale your point of aim on the reticule should come to rest on your target. This is when there is zero/near zero movement in your rifle.
-Breathing, like with point of aim, fire at the end of your exhale after a couple deep, slow even breaths. The idea is to slow your heart rate a bit and have extra oxygen in your bloodstream so you don't start shaking when you take your shot. If you do start to shake a tad, don't fire, take a few more breaths.

Practice is what it comes down to. Without the fundamentals you can have the best parts money can buy in your rifle and you will still shoot like crap. Start at 50 or 100 yards and perfect your groups there. Then push out the distance to 200 and perfect again. Repeat that until you're shooting good at the range you want to. Small, well thought out steps and planning will help you a lot. Keep a log book too of all your shots and call them, note the actual impact, any adjustments you make, wind and temperature, sunlight, etc. Everything counts.

One final recommendation is shooting classes. They're a lot of fun and you may learn something/discover something you never would have thought of before.

AND POST PICS OF THE PRECIOUS! :D

Happy shooting!

Josh

EvolutionGSR
07-07-2012, 7:17 PM
Thanks Army and Jcs for the pointers, im taking notes on everything here and will try it on my next outing.

Pthfndr
07-07-2012, 7:48 PM
You've got lots of good info here, but let me add something not yet mentioned.

The AR design takes more to master than a R700 bolt gun. The reason is the long lock time compared to the bolt gun. In the R700, when you pull the trigger the sear directly releases the firing pin, which then moves forward striking the primer. In an AR, when you pull the trigger, it releases the hammer which has to swing thru an arc before hitting the firing pin and driving it forward to hit the primer.

Miniscule as that time may be, if your follow through on the trigger is not good (some would say perfect), you can move the rifle a slight amount before the bullet exits the barrel.

You can dry fire an AR all day long, even without a snap cap, and not hurt it. Dry firing will lets you practice your trigger control and follow through. Whether using iron sights or an optic, the procedure for dry firing is the same. With rifle unloaded and empty, sight on your target, focus on the front sight (if iron sights) or the reticle (if optics) and pull the trigger. You can see if you are causing the rifle to move when you pull the trigger.

This also helps greatly with what ocabj says about "calling your shot". If you do everything correctly when you dry fire you will be able to call your shot and say your sight was on target when the hammer hits the firing pin. Once you have it down, go to the range and do the same thing on a target with live ammo.

Coyotegunner
07-07-2012, 8:44 PM
For what it is worth.I use alot of bolt action stuff and a few ARs in different calibers.The 223/5.56 stuff all gets the same loads of 40 gr Hornadys or Nosler BTs.I reload everything.Even the bone stock M4 barrel with 1-7 twist will shoot sub 5/8" at 100 yds off sandbags.Yes ,I think I got real lucky with that one.I did learn to use my pad of my trigger finger on bolts at a young age.Close to 22-23 years ago a man that new ARs noticed me struggling with some groups and mentioned using the bend in my finger instead of the pad.It has worked for me since then with ARs.
I have a tactical 2 stage in my Armalite AR10,which I have left alone.I like it.
The AR15s have stock LPK DPMS,with the surfaces polished.I have practiced with them so much that if I go back to the pad on my finger,I sometimes bump fire a second or third round.I do not recommend this to anyone.It started out that way,when all these neat triggers and stuff were unheard of.I just stick to the bend in my finger.The main problem with the trigger kits I got over the years is the reverse grind on the hammer sear part.On mine anyway,with the lower off and your hand over the hammer,I could see the hammer creep back as I pulled the trigger slowly.
Pthfndr has a good point everyone should consider when comparing a military trigger to a nice bolt gun.
Good Luck

IPSICK
07-07-2012, 10:00 PM
If the trigger is part of your concern at all and you want your trigger to approximate a bolt gun, look into getting a JP trigger. No pre-travel, crisp break, and with their lightened hammer a fast lock time.

EvolutionGSR
07-07-2012, 10:01 PM
This is a whole lot more information than what I was expecting. Thanks everyone. Looks like in short, I need a lot of practice. Dry fire and range time using techniques everyone has mentioned here.

donw
07-08-2012, 8:34 AM
adding to what was said earlier...our US Army instructors drilled another acronym into us:

"B.R.A.S.S."

"B"reathe
"R"elax
"A"im
take up the "S"lack
"S"queeze

KEEP A SOLID CHEEK WELD, and FOLLOW THRU.

i've had really good luck with using a bagged FRONT support in sitting/bench position with all sorts of rifles (that includes springer air rifles) by simply letting the rifle support itself on the rest and supporting the butt like was said earlier.

the rem 700 trigger is not comparable to the AR trigger, IMO; i have the 700 BDL and it's adjusted down to 2lbs...my JP fire control group kit, yellow spring, trigger, is 3.75 lbs.

PRECISION shooting requires much lighter triggers than the AR normally has. i once shot a precision McMillan rifle that had no safety on it and had such a light trigger it was frightening.

what i'm saying, is you need to acclimate to your trigger/rifle and how best to shoot it.

:cheers2:

eighteenninetytwo
07-08-2012, 9:42 AM
Sounds like the true capability of your current rifle and ammo combo is about a 3 inch grouping of ten shots. Ten shots is a way better indicator of the real capability than three for exactly the reasons you are describing.

EvolutionGSR
07-08-2012, 10:06 AM
Sounds like the true capability of your current rifle and ammo combo is about a 3 inch grouping of ten shots. Ten shots is a way better indicator of the real capability than three for exactly the reasons you are describing.

I am convinced that it is myself that is opening up the groups. I can tell when I have a bad pull i just cant tell where the bad pull puts the shot. I also forgot to mention, the bad pulls usually go to the left or go high, so the groups are usually about 2 and the worst was about 2.5in. I know when I shot handgun my trigger pull made my shots go left. Does a bad pull with a rifle cause this also?

Dutch Henry
07-08-2012, 10:25 AM
My .02 worth: Try to minimize operator error by using a solid benchrest and then sand bag the hell out of the rifle; sand bags under the handguard and under the butt until your sights are aligned on the target. Then all you have to do is concentrate on is trigger control. If your groups show improvement, then you just need more range time.

If you still see flyers after that, you probably have an ammo or rifle problem.

Like Roseanne Rosannadanna used to say: "It's always something". Good Luck to you.

sharxbyte
07-08-2012, 10:32 AM
...you have more and larger muscles there, making trigger manipulation easier and more controlled...

Correction, there are no muscles in your fingers; just tendons/ligaments/connective tissue, bone, cartilage, fat, nerves, blood vessels, skin, nail/follicles. The muscles that engage your fingers are all in your forearms. it's not so much a muscle issue, as a fulcrum (joint) issue. the closer to the fulcrum, the more controlled the force. Other than your slight anatomical mis-reference, you seem to be right on.

problemchild
07-08-2012, 1:10 PM
I got this issue until my barrel broke in and I had more range time behind the trigger. After about 3 trips and 3-400 rounds she was grouping .6 of an inch at 100

phish
07-08-2012, 5:26 PM
I got this issue until my barrel broke in and I had more range time behind the trigger. After about 3 trips and 3-400 rounds she was grouping .6 of an inch at 100

if a barrel takes that long to "break in", I'd get a higher quality barrel next time

Army
07-09-2012, 2:25 PM
Correction, there are no muscles in your fingers; just tendons/ligaments/connective tissue, bone, cartilage, fat, nerves, blood vessels, skin, nail/follicles.
I know, but it is easier to associate muscle mass use of a finger, than flexor tendons controlled through the entire arm :)

Other than your slight anatomical mis-reference, you seem to be right on.

The ancient paradigm of shooting technique is simply all wrong with AR/m16 platforms. And that starts with "We've always shot rifles this way...". Whil the AMU and high power people are a stubborn lot and will fight this to the end, the shift for marksmanship in the Army will be the techniqueI spelled out. The mechanical build of an AR/M16 simply fails when bagged and benched like any other rifle.

Case in point: Normal qualification percentages average for any sizeable military group, is 51%. When they go ABOVE average, it hovers in the 56%-59% range. These number make the command do the happy dance.

In January and March of this year, we qualified over 600 Soldiers using this new firing skill.....at 89% qualified, with over 1/3 shooting Expert. Failed to qualify numbers dropped from 21%, to just 4%.

Pressure on the magazine does not bind the action, nor increase any feed failures. The magazine can only be inserted to the mag-lock, regardless of how hard you press down.

The new sighting technique does away with "breathing control". Just breath normally; no holding your breath, half outs, half ins, two quick puffs, all out, wait for the pause etc. Just breath normal and easy, add trigger pressure, follow through, and do it again. The whole purpose is to let the rifle flex and bend on it's own during the pressure peak of firing, with no inlfluence on the barrel what-so-ever. Even free float handguards will bend an AR, since they are also attached to the receiver where the barrel is.

HK Dave
07-09-2012, 2:34 PM
I know, but it is easier to associate muscle mass use of a finger, than flexor tendons controlled through the entire arm :)



The ancient paradigm of shooting technique is simply all wrong with AR/m16 platforms. And that starts with "We've always shot rifles this way...". Whil the AMU and high power people are a stubborn lot and will fight this to the end, the shift for marksmanship in the Army will be the techniqueI spelled out. The mechanical build of an AR/M16 simply fails when bagged and benched like any other rifle.

Case in point: Normal qualification percentages average for any sizeable military group, is 51%. When they go ABOVE average, it hovers in the 56%-59% range. These number make the command do the happy dance.

In January and March of this year, we qualified over 600 Soldiers using this new firing skill.....at 89% qualified, with over 1/3 shooting Expert. Failed to qualify numbers dropped from 21%, to just 4%.

Pressure on the magazine does not bind the action, nor increase any feed failures. The magazine can only be inserted to the mag-lock, regardless of how hard you press down.

The new sighting technique does away with "breathing control". Just breath normally; no holding your breath, half outs, half ins, two quick puffs, all out, wait for the pause etc. Just breath normal and easy, add trigger pressure, follow through, and do it again. The whole purpose is to let the rifle flex and bend on it's own during the pressure peak of firing, with no inlfluence on the barrel what-so-ever. Even free float handguards will bend an AR, since they are also attached to the receiver where the barrel is.

While this goes completely against everything i've learned about precision shooting... i am quite interested to try it out. Next time i'm out at the range, i'm going to try and see what kind of groups i can get with this method.

So let me get this straight, you don't really apply any pressure anywhere on the rifle itself... you're just stabilizing it from moving.

I see how this works with shooting paper... but when it comes to unknown distances and windage... how do you maintain enough stability to keep line of sight through your scope as the bullet hits so you can adjust?

wash
07-09-2012, 2:47 PM
So far no one has questioned the magazine.

I say get a SLED to see if the magazine is playing a roll in the fliers.

You could try a front of the mag well grip to avoid pressure on the hand guard and one of those rubber wedge things that tightens up the upper to lower fit.

If the SLED solves it, your magazine might be acting funny. If the grip and upper to lower fit help, then you are moving the gun between trigger pull and bullet exit.

One AR I have seems to always carve a grove in to the bullet with one of the barrel extension lugs but that doesn't seem to decrease accuracy too much, I'm not a good enough shot to tell any way.

Just look and look and look and eliminate variables until you find the one causing fliers.

p1choco
07-09-2012, 6:43 PM
If you have an SPR style rifle does that mean you have a free floating forend? If so, setting the forend on sandbags will have very very little effect on the riffles accuracy. If you are shooting off sand bags, every time you shot, the rifle will settle into the sandbag just a little. It will never end up in the exact same place.

After setting your rifle down, get your natural point of aim. That's a big factor with accuracy. You should be able to "Call your shots". It's not hard to do. Where were the crosshairs at when the rifle went bang? Draw a little picture of your target on a piece of paper. Place a number on the target you drew representing the shot. Or a dot with a line connecting to the corresponding shot number. After the rifle goes bang, keep looking through the scope/sights and get yourself back on target. That's when your mark your shot and check your spotting scope.

EvolutionGSR
07-09-2012, 8:09 PM
Yes it is a free floating handguard, but i was using a bipod.

locosway
07-09-2012, 10:03 PM
Hello, I just assembled my first accurate ar-15 spr style with SS barrel. I am having a hard time being a consistent shot as I was with a rem700 bolt action. With the 700, it was a .308, ar is a 5.56, if that makes a huge difference. With the rem 700, all my shots would touch being about .5-.75 moa. Loaded one at a time. Using Fed GMM. With the AR, using BH 77grn, ill get 2 or 3 shots sub moa, then ill get a flier about 1-1.5 inches away, then a shot back into the first sub moa 2-3 first shots, and then another filer, so on until the mag empties. I never had this consistency problem with the 700. Both are using front bipod and rear sandbag. Rem had a Leupold 4-16 precision rifle line (looks like its not made anymore) and the ar has a nxs 2.5-10. My first instinct is that i just need to practice consistency. Once I get a good 3 shot group (once i got a good 4 shot group) maybe i get nervous and think im going to screw up the group? Is it most likely my trigger pull with the AR? Any pointers or recommendations that someone lookimg from the outside can tell me?

Thanks.

Have you tried shooting the AR by loading one round at a time?

Obviously it's mental, and doing most of the same steps might help you transition.

EvolutionGSR
07-10-2012, 6:19 PM
I did some dry firing last night using the first joint on the trigger technique. It already feels like a smoother pull and I noticed the reticle not moving at all through the pull after getting used to using that much finger in the trigger guard. I can't wait to get to the range again.

Sniper3142
07-10-2012, 7:00 PM
You've got lots of good info here, but let me add something not yet mentioned.

The AR design takes more to master than a R700 bolt gun. The reason is the long lock time compared to the bolt gun. In the R700, when you pull the trigger the sear directly releases the firing pin, which then moves forward striking the primer. In an AR, when you pull the trigger, it releases the hammer which has to swing thru an arc before hitting the firing pin and driving it forward to hit the primer.

Miniscule as that time may be, if your follow through on the trigger is not good (some would say perfect), you can move the rifle a slight amount before the bullet exits the barrel.


One of the KEY aspects of shooting a semiauto rifle.


adding to what was said earlier...our US Army instructors drilled another acronym into us:

"B.R.A.S.S."

"B"reathe
"R"elax
"A"im
take up the "S"lack
"S"queeze

KEEP A SOLID CHEEK WELD, and FOLLOW THRU.

Once again, very good advice.

Here is a video by SHLowlight (from the Hide) that might help:

ytM_2PG6joU

Army
07-11-2012, 1:15 PM
While this goes completely against everything i've learned about precision shooting.
Yes, because the AR platform was simply carried over from steel and wood gun shooting technique and the Marksmanship Manual..

So let me get this straight, you don't really apply any pressure anywhere on the rifle itself... you're just stabilizing it from moving.
Exactly, and you are allowing the rifle's natural flex, vibration, and barrel wobble to occur for every shot. As was stated above, every shot off a sandbag will result in the rifle setting down in a new position and pressure point...impossible to get the same position and hold. The only "pressure" you apply, is rearward into the shoulder from the non-firing hand.

I see how this works with shooting paper... but when it comes to unknown distances and windage... how do you maintain enough stability to keep line of sight through your scope as the bullet hits so you can adjust?
Stability is fine. We had a brand new Private making called shot out to 700yds with iron sights, using rack issue M16A2's. She even tagged a ground squirrel at 500yds....much to our glee and her horror :)

This only works for AR/m16 rifles. Normal hunting or long range rifles are bedded and bolted and strapped and pinned and screwed etc. into their chassis. AR's simply have the barrel hanging out there, snugly afixed to the receiver with a single big nut.

ocabj
07-11-2012, 3:50 PM
I have high confidence that my free floated AR is not being 'bent' when I shoot with a sling. The amount of pressure I exert on that sling is very high, too, and it definitely has no adverse effects on my groups.

Army
07-11-2012, 9:53 PM
I have high confidence that my free floated AR is not being 'bent' when I shoot with a sling. The amount of pressure I exert on that sling is very high, too, and it definitely has no adverse effects on my groups.
But you are. Where the handguard is attached, is the same place you will bend the barrel/receiver connection. There is no possible way for you to maintain the exact same position or pressure against the sling to return to the same place each shot. Plus, every shot you are changing the harmonics of the rifle, making the bullet exit at a new position.

Remember, these aren't big steel and solid wood rifles, they are plastic and aluminum pinned and nutted together at a mechanically very weak point.

Sniper3142
07-12-2012, 8:08 AM
But you are. Where the handguard is attached, is the same place you will bend the barrel/receiver connection. There is no possible way for you to maintain the exact same position or pressure against the sling to return to the same place each shot. Plus, every shot you are changing the harmonics of the rifle, making the bullet exit at a new position.

Remember, these aren't big steel and solid wood rifles, they are plastic and aluminum pinned and nutted together at a mechanically very weak point.


Sorry but I agree with ocabj.

Polymer (plastic) and Aluminum can be every bit as rigid as steel and wood (which actually isn't very rigid at all).

Modern AR15s aren't flimsy or bendable. A proper free floated handguard is just that; free floated. Slings mounted to one Do Not put any pressure on the barrel beyond the barrel nut and cause no loss of accuracy.

laabstract
07-12-2012, 10:09 AM
Sounds like a trigger reset problem to me.

EvolutionGSR
07-12-2012, 12:50 PM
When I started to practice with dry fire i realized that I may not actually be following through and holding like I said I was before every single time. I thought I was when asked because i distinctly remember feeling the trigger resetting feeling gritty when the trigger was brand new, but when thinking back to range time when I was dry firing, I cant really say I did 100%. I hope this is what my issue is.

EvolutionGSR
10-10-2012, 7:38 AM
Update: I know this thread is old but I have this update. I did some dry fire practice and have had two outings with the rifle since the origonal post. Trigger pulling practice seemed to tighten the groups slightly. Pulling off the rear sandbag and only using the bipod....put my groups at MOA. With some more practice hopefully I can pull .75 or something out of it. Thanksall for the suggestions.

It could also possibly be my barrel is finally breaking in.