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FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 4:54 PM
I'm thinking of converting my M&P 15 to a bolt action.
I can go with the side pull method or straight pull method, or this from SGC in England.
SGC Southern Gun 9mm AR15 Lever Release MK1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsDqE9j3bzI&list=PL26128AE0D8B37355&index=6&feature=plcp
What I want to know is, Are there any U.S. made kits available to convert my 5.56 Ar15 to bolt action?
Thanks for your help.

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 5:01 PM
Remove the gas tube, you will now have a straight pull ar-15.

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 5:05 PM
Remove the gas tube, you will now have a straight pull ar-15.

That's it?
I thought I would have to at least have a Specialized charging handle and alter the bolt release in some way...

r8dr rider
07-05-2012, 5:06 PM
Why? Just sell it and buy a bolt action. That's like buying a Corvette and putting a Prius engine in it.

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 5:10 PM
Why? Just sell it and buy a bolt action. That's like buying a Corvette and putting a Prius engine in it.
I'm just thinking along the lines of if Yee is actually successful and bans my AR15 in its current form... I should have a back up plan. Of course I will keep the left over parts.

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 5:13 PM
That's it?
I thought I would have to at least have a Specialized charging handle and alter the bolt release in some way...

That's it. It's the gas that causes the bolt to cycle on it's own. No gas = straight pull every shot. You could get a side charger if you want, but it's not necessary to make a single shot AR.

Although I don't see why you wouldn't just get a bolt action rifle if that's what you want.

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 5:15 PM
That's it. It's the gas that causes the bolt to cycle on it's own. No gas = straight pull every shot. You could get a side charger if you want, but it's not necessary to make a single shot AR.

Although I don't see why you wouldn't just get a bolt action rifle if that's what you want.

As stated before:
"I'm just thinking along the lines of if Yee is actually successful and bans my AR15 in its current form... I should have a back up plan. Of course I will keep the left over parts."

Arkangel
07-05-2012, 5:18 PM
As stated before:
"I'm just thinking along the lines of if Yee is actually successful and bans my AR15 in its current form... I should have a back up plan. Of course I will keep the left over parts."

IF Yee succeeds, we have no idea what "conversion kit " will define. A better backup plan would be to go featureless.

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 5:28 PM
IF Yee succeeds, we have no idea what "conversion kit " will define. A better backup plan would be to go featureless.
If you go featureless what are you going to do about the hand grip? that too may fall under the conversion kit law.
If you remove the gas tube it is no longer a semiautomatic.
and is not considered an assault weapon. Also I will be able to dust off my pre ban 30 round mags. :)

Arkangel
07-05-2012, 5:35 PM
If you go featureless what are you going to do about the hand grip? that too may fall under the conversion kit law.
If you remove the buffer tube it is no longer a semiautomatic.
and is not considered an assault weapon. Also I will be able to dust off my pre ban 30 round mags. :)

As I understand it the term " conversion kit" has not been clearly defined. So we won't know what will fall under its scope, but the bill seems to go after bullet button kits.

For a featureless set up you need a fixed stock, not to remove the buffer tube. A grip wrap or HH grip to eliminate the PG and not use a flashider.

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 5:42 PM
Suppose they make us remove the bb altogether and we have to reload by removing the upper, I would rather have a straight pull and use my pre ban mags, and if all I have to do is remove the gas tube then That's what I'll do.

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 5:43 PM
Suppose they make us remove the bb altogether and we have to reload by removing the upper, I would rather have a straight pull and use my pre ban mags, and if all I have to do is remove the buffer tube then That's what I'll do.

Why do you keep talking about removing the buffer tube? All AR-15(aside from some piston variants) need a buffer tube. Fixed stock has a buffer tube, collapsible stock has a buffer tube, pistol has a buffer tube...

G60
07-05-2012, 5:44 PM
Let's cross that bridge when we come to it, and for now concentrate on defeating the bill.

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 5:51 PM
Why do you keep talking about removing the buffer tube? All AR-15(aside from some piston variants) need a buffer tube. Fixed stock has a buffer tube, collapsible stock has a buffer tube, pistol has a buffer tube...

Did you read the title of my post?

If the gas tube is not attached it will no longer be a semiautomatic and as a result not fall under the Assault weapon ban designation.

Thus it will need to be manually cycled like a bolt rifle.

Arkangel
07-05-2012, 5:54 PM
Suppose they make us remove the bb altogether and we have to reload by removing the upper, I would rather have a straight pull and use my pre ban mags, and if all I have to do is remove the buffer tube then That's what I'll do.

You mean the gas tube?

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 5:54 PM
Lol my title says blot action not bolt action.

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 5:56 PM
You mean the gas tube?

Boy am I embarrassed. Yes I mean gas tube.

CSACANNONEER
07-05-2012, 5:59 PM
Why? Just sell it and buy a bolt action. That's like buying a Corvette and putting a Prius engine in it.

????? I bet my bolt action upper will kick your little semi auto upper's azz. Wanna meet somewhere and see who can break 10 clay pigeons on the 1000 yard berm faster? I'm willing to bet that my little bolt action AR upper will hit all 10 before you break your first one. BTW, this isn't just blowing smoke. It's a serious challenge if you and your little "corvette" are up to it.

r8dr rider
07-05-2012, 6:02 PM
^??????…looks somebody pissed in your kool aid today! Trust me you bolt action AR is not hitting clays at 1000 yards. So your saying you can pull the trigger cycle the action x10 faster then I can just pull the trigger? Hmmmm, I would take that challenge but I don't play guns with kids and you wouldn't be able to reach my location.

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 6:03 PM
????? I bet my bolt action upper will kick your little semi auto upper's azz. Wanna meet somewhere and see who can break 10 clay pigeons on the 1000 yard berm faster? I'm willing to bet that my little bolt action AR upper will hit all 10 before you break your first one. BTW, this isn't just blowing smoke. It's a serious challenge if you and your little "corvette" are up to it.

Hey CSACANNONEER What kind of set up do you have?
Got any pics?

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 6:08 PM
^??????…looks somebody pissed in your kool aid today! Trust me you bolt action AR is not hitting clays at 1000 yards

I don't understand, why do you think a bolt action AR can't hit a target at 1000 yds?

r8dr rider
07-05-2012, 6:11 PM
^223/556 @ 1000 yards?

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 6:12 PM
^??????…looks somebody pissed in your kool aid today! Trust me you bolt action AR is not hitting clays at 1000 yards. So your saying you can pull the trigger cycle the action x10 faster then I can just pull the trigger? Hmmmm, I would take that challenge but I don't play guns with kids and you wouldn't be able to reach my location.

http://blog.inthewildtesting.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Facepalm.jpg

Outonthegrind
07-05-2012, 6:12 PM
Let's cross that bridge when we come to it, and for now concentrate on defeating the bill.

Thanks you jesus...

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 6:15 PM
^223/556 @ 1000 yards?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120213055636/uncyclopedia/images/5/52/Double-facepalm.jpg
LNV5_wWPJnw

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 6:15 PM
^223/556 @ 1000 yards?

I see.
He didn't mention the caliber of his upper.

r8dr rider
07-05-2012, 6:16 PM
^sweet but can CSA's do it?

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 6:17 PM
I see.
He didn't mention the caliber of his upper.

Watch the video I just posted(that guy is also a calgunner btw), 5.56/.223 at 1000 yards out of a semi auto AR(also doable with a bolt action). Just ignore anything weber_2 posts.

^sweet but can CSA's do it?

Why is there any reason to assume his can't? It's not some impossible rarity.

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 6:21 PM
Look what I found http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=40862/Product/AR-15-M16-TACTILITE-UPPER-RECEIVER

ojisan
07-05-2012, 6:26 PM
I believe CSA's bolt upper is a .50 cal.

0331Marine
07-05-2012, 6:33 PM
IF Yee succeeds, we have no idea what "conversion kit " will define. A better backup plan would be to go featureless.

Or move to another state and not have to worry about it :D (worked for me)

r8dr rider
07-05-2012, 6:35 PM
Sorry bout the thread jack, and good luck to your endeavours on finding a bolt action upper....I'm done trying to argue cuz its pointless doing it in a thread...lates!

FairfaxCA
07-05-2012, 6:45 PM
No worries. I learned a lot.

X-NewYawker
07-05-2012, 6:55 PM
Why hasn't someone converted an M-4 so that the hand guard PUMPS the action? This had ARs like this in South Africa. Anyone seen a PUMP AR?

Fjold
07-05-2012, 6:59 PM
This guy's shooting at 1,000 yards with a 20" service rifle upper, open sights and a sling.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Fjold/Guns/DSC01045.jpg

ACRfan
07-05-2012, 7:13 PM
A service rifle has a stainless barrel??

Prc329
07-05-2012, 7:16 PM
The shooting uggs are awesome

CSACANNONEER
07-05-2012, 8:06 PM
^??????…looks somebody pissed in your kool aid today! Trust me you bolt action AR is not hitting clays at 1000 yards. So your saying you can pull the trigger cycle the action x10 faster then I can just pull the trigger? Hmmmm, I would take that challenge but I don't play guns with kids and you wouldn't be able to reach my location.

No cool aid today. I was just responding to your assine post with a challenge for you to prove your stroller is worthy of the corvette emblem your mommy sewed on it.

While it appears that this thread lost it's "expert on long distance shooting", if you happen to come back, I'll keep the challenge open. I'm willing to make the 4 hour drive to Coalinga (it's close to the middle of the state), bring you in as my guest, pay your range fees and bet you my fuel cost to get there against your's. You pick a weekend when there's not a schedualed match and we'll do it. Hell, I'll even buy you dinner at this little oyster bar that's in town.

Hey CSACANNONEER What kind of set up do you have?
Got any pics?

8-32X NXS on an ALS single shot upper all on a FAB10 lower. It's behind my other bolt action "AR".

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/056.jpg

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 8:10 PM
Bro-date, oyster bar?
tdbt-sx5MDc

It's a trap!

smittty
07-05-2012, 8:13 PM
Check this out, it's a side cocking bolt and upper receiver.
http://www.fulton-armory.com/boltcarriergroupcompletesidecockingwhandle.aspx

Another way to do it could be to use a large charging handle to operate the bolt from the back with you left hand. Something like this, http://brigadearmory.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=73&products_id=323&osCsid=4c22fa3e5f0d94f322cfd6fa2214e62e

I think a bolt action upper would be kind of cool from a take your time precision stand point.

Moto4Fun
07-05-2012, 8:24 PM
If field some reason we were not allowed to own our semi auto ARs any longer, I wouldnt mind having a side charging "bolt action" AR. Especially if I could use my old 30 rounders.

707electrician
07-05-2012, 8:30 PM
A service rifle has a stainless barrel??

Yes

Fjold
07-05-2012, 8:33 PM
A service rifle has a stainless barrel??

Yep, they're allowed

The shooting uggs are awesome

That guy shoots Master class in highpower, he can shoot in any footwear that he wants to.

chrisf
07-05-2012, 8:52 PM
Why? Just sell it and buy a bolt action. That's like buying a Corvette and putting a Prius engine in it.
+1 for why?

Mossy Man
07-05-2012, 9:34 PM
ok so, even if this current 249 passes, BB's will still be legal

and if they later on redefine the definition of "fixed magazine" then we can go featureless.

I don't see what everyone's so scared about.

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 9:44 PM
ok so, even if this current 249 passes, BB's will still be legal

and if they later on redefine the definition of "fixed magazine" then we can go featureless.

I don't see what everyone's so scared about.

Because any additional restriction is crappy?

Also, SB249 bans possession of the "conversion kit", so you couldn't even legally have one to use when you're out of state or if you put a .22lr upper on your receiver. Which is also crap.

xpbprox
07-05-2012, 9:46 PM
I don't understand why people are freaking out about lee and are so willing to be compliment.

Also CSANCANNONEER, You totally over exaggeratedly. His analogy was talking about the OPs ar situation not yours. You're just lookin for a fight ain't ya. Clearly you single shot AR's are second to none
And yeah he spoke too soon about your bolt action AR's, but I don't think he was thinking that you had those bad boys

xpbprox
07-05-2012, 9:47 PM
Just buy a mini 14... Or would the law apply to that too

Mossy Man
07-05-2012, 9:51 PM
Because any additional restriction is crappy?

Also, SB249 bans possession of the "conversion kit", so you couldn't even legally have one to use when you're out of state or if you put a .22lr upper on your receiver. Which is also crap.

I'm not saying it's right or just

I'm saying that featureless is a better option than single-shot, and the OP is going way overboard with the sky is falling right now.

And no, "conversion kit" does not mean traditional magazine release or a pistol grip. Again, these parts in themselves are not designed "solely and exclusively" to turn a fixed magazine centerfire rifle into an AW. Standard magazine releases and pistol grips, if i'm not mistaken, are also quite necessary to operate the quite legal, non-AW rimfire varieties as well.

So no...i think that talking about doing single-shot conversions is EXACTLY what they want. They want you to give up and think worst case scenario so when the gun grabbers come, you'll have a plan that falls into their agenda.

If they redefine "Fixed magazine"....then we'll have no more BBs. I highly doubt they'll be able to redefine AR/AK series weapons specifically without also outlawing every single semi-automatic production rifle in existence. And they aren't doing anymore "by name" AWs.

So.....like I said. SB249 does not affect current BBs. If Yee can maange to get Harris to redefine "fixed magazine" then we'll still have featureless. If they take featureless away from us.........then it's time to move as all hope will have been lost in this state.

Mossy Man
07-05-2012, 9:57 PM
Just buy a mini 14... Or would the law apply to that too

it would not, because nothing on a mini 14 is designed to solely and exclusively convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic rifle into an AW........

nor is the mini-14 a fixed magazine rifle to begin with.

So SB249 AND the memo do not apply to the mini-14 (and thus all featureless builds).

xpbprox
07-05-2012, 10:05 PM
it would not, because nothing on a mini 14 is designed to solely and exclusively convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic rifle into an AW........

nor is the mini-14 a fixed magazine rifle to begin with.

So SB249 AND the memo do not apply to the mini-14 (and thus all featureless builds).

Thank you

CSACANNONEER
07-06-2012, 7:08 AM
I don't understand why people are freaking out about lee and are so willing to be compliment.

Also CSANCANNONEER, You totally over exaggeratedly. His analogy was talking about the OPs ar situation not yours. You're just lookin for a fight ain't ya. Clearly you single shot AR's are second to none
And yeah he spoke too soon about your bolt action AR's, but I don't think he was thinking that you had those bad boys

What did I exagerate about? The OP is looking at different bolt action AR uppers. The OP is considering buying a bolt action upper and checking out what is available. He could end up getting one like mine or one from the half dozen or so other US bolt action upper manufacturers that are in current production. Obviously, Weber_2 has no clue about ARs or the bolt action uppers which have been in production for well over a decade. While I don't have a 1000 yard .223/5.56, there are a lot of guys out there who do and, they can shoot them well enough to break clays at 1000. Weber_2 just doesn't know anything when it comes to extreme long range shooting.


Just buy a mini 14... Or would the law apply to that too

Why wouldn't it? If you owned a stock ranch mini and a flash hider for it (even if it wasn't installed), it could be argued that you had an "AW conversion kit". Just the FH, folding stock or any other piece that could make it into an AW could be a problem.

Quiet
07-06-2012, 7:33 AM
Why hasn't someone converted an M-4 so that the hand guard PUMPS the action? This had ARs like this in South Africa. Anyone seen a PUMP AR?

DPMS made a pump-action AR during the Fed AWB.
They discontinued it after the Fed AWB expired.

HK Dave
07-06-2012, 8:27 AM
I think weber got embarrassed and decided to stop posting... pretty sure he's still reading this though. Poor fellow. :( It's best just to admit you don't know everything and make friends. :)

Hmm if the ban goes through I'm going to create a "CONVERT YOUR AR INTO BOLT ACTION SYSTEM KIT" complete with pliers. :D I think I can get $49.95 for each. :D

msand951
07-06-2012, 8:45 AM
Instead of removing the gas tube. Can't you just get a adjustable gas block and close it when you want bolt or pull action?
And when your in a friendly state open it up?

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 9:16 AM
how about we stop saying the sky is falling?

even if

A: SB249 passes

and/or

B: Yee gets his way with DOJ and they re-defining "fixed magazine"

Featureless AR/AK series and other inherently featureless rifles will still be fine. No need to resort to Bolt Action/Single Shot.

I highly doubt they will be able to re-define AW again for the simple sake of outlawing featureless AR/AKs.......if they do, they'll not only be outlawing the featureless AR/AK but by definition alone, will be outlawing every semi-automatic centerfire rifle in the state.

r8dr rider
07-06-2012, 9:53 AM
No cool aid today. I was just responding to your assine post with a challenge for you to prove your stroller is worthy of the corvette emblem your mommy sewed on it.

While it appears that this thread lost it's "expert on long distance shooting", if you happen to come back, I'll keep the challenge open. I'm willing to make the 4 hour drive to Coalinga (it's close to the middle of the state), bring you in as my guest, pay your range fees and bet you my fuel cost to get there against your's. You pick a weekend when there's not a schedualed match and we'll do it. Hell, I'll even buy you dinner at this little oyster bar that's in town.



8-32X NXS on an ALS single shot upper all on a FAB10 lower. It's behind my other bolt action "AR".

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p43/csacannoneer/056.jpg

Well now its obvious that these rigs can out shoot my 556 Corvettes at long range. When were done let's do a shoot house challenge. Why did you have to get all pissy in your first post? And you clowns are correct as I don't have any knowledge in "extreme long range shooting" cuz you guys know my whole life from my few posts here.

X-NewYawker
07-06-2012, 10:03 AM
ok so, even if this current 249 passes, BB's will still be legal

and if they later on redefine the definition of "fixed magazine" then we can go featureless.

I don't see what everyone's so scared about.

No, we won't. The bill is written so vaguely that if you have a 20 round magazine for an AR you have one of the "parts" of a conversion kit, even if you don't have an AR rifle in the house.

The point is is we must stop this NOW -- you think they will let you keep a gun that looks EXACTLY like an M4 even if it's hand cycled? If you do you're missing the point. They think the BB is a
loophole" they said if ANY "assault weapons" get into the state, they're "failing.

Don't interpret the enemy -- understand him.

They want ALL our guns. Go to the second amendment forum and check out the UN bill…

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 10:08 AM
No, we won't. The bill is written so vaguely that if you have a 20 round magazine for an AR you have one of the "parts" of a conversion kit, even if you don't have an AR rifle in the house.

The point is is we must stop this NOW -- you think they will let you keep a gun that looks EXACTLY like an M4 even if it's hand cycled? If you do you're missing the point. They think the BB is a
loophole" they said if ANY "assault weapons" get into the state, they're "failing.

Don't interpret the enemy -- understand him.

They want ALL our guns. Go to the second amendment forum and check out the UN bill…

"solely and exclusively"

i'm not arguing that they do want all our guns.

But the bill as written does not outlaw BBs, and it does not outlaw standard featureless rifles.

I'm also not saying we shouldn't fight this.

I'm saying don't freak out and change your gun into a bolt-action because you're afraid of it.


THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. Section 30527 is added to the Penal Code, to read:
30527. (a) As used in this chapter a "conversion kit" means
either of the following:
(1) Any combination of parts that, when affixed to a firearm with
a fixed magazine, are designed and intended to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

(A) Paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.

(B) Paragraph (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.

(C) Paragraph (7) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.
(2) Any
any part that, when affixed to a firearm with a fixed
magazine, is designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:
(A)
(1) Paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.

(B)
(2) Paragraph (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.

(C)
(3) Paragraph (7) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.
(b) This section shall become operative on July 1, 2013.


This is it's current form

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0201-0250/sb_249_bill_20120627_amended_asm_v94.html

High cap mags, pistol grips, magazine releases, etc. are not solely and exclusively designed to turn a fixed magazine centerfire rifle into an AW

tonyxcom
07-06-2012, 10:26 AM
Why is everyone getting all fear-mongered :facepalm: by this bill that not only hasn't even passed, but doesn't even clearly define what would be illegal if it did.

Already trying to figure out what to do with your AR's? OMG LOLERS.

You think there are Yeezies reading these forums and seeing what a sad sack of gun owners some of you are, already giving into a bill that isn't even law and wont be for almost a year IF IT PASSES!!!

Merc1138
07-06-2012, 11:14 AM
Well now its obvious that these rigs can out shoot my 556 Corvettes at long range. When were done let's do a shoot house challenge. Why did you have to get all pissy in your first post? And you clowns are correct as I don't have any knowledge in "extreme long range shooting" cuz you guys know my whole life from my few posts here.

And this is the problem. Other people asked questions, you've been making incorrect statements. Other people have been trying to be helpful and provide information, you call people clowns. Again you make another snide/pissy comment about a shoot house challenge, as if anyone would take a .50bmg bolt gun for that(well... I guess if you were up on the hill shooting through the house, lol).

Do bolt action uppers exist? Yes, in various calibers.
Can 5.56/.223 hit something at 1000 yards? Yes, people can do it with irons.

If you actually were aware of those things, why make the posts you did in this thread?

r8dr rider
07-06-2012, 11:33 AM
^and why did you have to C your way into this A and B conversation?

Merc1138
07-06-2012, 11:36 AM
I wasn't aware that I intruded into your private message conversation. Oh... wait.

(*psst*, it's "This is an A and B conversation so C your way out", the key is to keep the alphabet in order)

r8dr rider
07-06-2012, 11:37 AM
It all started from my simple analogy. Then Merc and CSA get all bent out of shape and want to do a competition put pictures of polar bears and Star Trek guys and make it seem that 556 ARs hit 1000 yard shots with ease....

Merc1138
07-06-2012, 11:40 AM
First of all, no one ever claimed that 5.56 ARs do it with "ease".

Second, since you're still upset that I've somehow intruded into your conversation, I suggest to actually read the entire thread from the original post and check who replied first since it matters so much to you.

Kestryll
07-06-2012, 11:51 AM
Again...clowns

So..

You're done being a member here, is that what you're saying?

CSACANNONEER
07-06-2012, 11:51 AM
Well now its obvious that these rigs can out shoot my 556 Corvettes at long range. When were done let's do a shoot house challenge. Why did you have to get all pissy in your first post? And you clowns are correct as I don't have any knowledge in "extreme long range shooting" cuz you guys know my whole life from my few posts here.

While we may not know you from your posts, we do know your that your posts show your complete ignorance on the subject at hand. There are thousands of bolt action uppers in this country and mine is probably chambered in the most commonly offered cartridge. Being the expert you are, you already knew that, right? So, when do you want to break some clays? I'd still love to see what that Corvette of yours can do against my little prius engine.

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 12:21 PM
guys guys guys


we're all on the same team here.

let's not forget who the real threat is:

http://media.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/photo/leland-yee-b09b3be14288ccd7.jpg

not only does he want to take away our guns, but he wants to take away our VIDEO GAMES too!

r8dr rider
07-06-2012, 12:23 PM
CSA, if I take your challenge are you willing to take your Prius in a "shoot house" comp?

Merc1138
07-06-2012, 12:31 PM
CSA, if I take your challenge are you willing to take your Prius in a "shoot house" comp?

I'm still confused about why you seem to be under the assumption that someone can't own both an m4gery and a bolt action upper, and choose which one is appropriate for the task of the day.

r8dr rider
07-06-2012, 12:44 PM
I'm still confused about why you seem to be under the assumption that someone can't own both an m4gery and a bolt action upper, and choose which one is appropriate for the task of the day.

I'm not under that assumption at all. I'm talking about bolt action AR vs semi auto AR, that's it. The original post mentioned 556 AR and I made a remark then it went to a pissing match from there.

X-NewYawker
07-06-2012, 1:17 PM
I don't know if you guys missed the the same day the committee passed a bill that would basically make air gun manufacturers stop selling to CA. They are just out of control. Its like Obama with spending. Since they know the LA Times is never going to write anything bad about what they're doing, they just rush ahead with these crappy bills…

CSACANNONEER
07-06-2012, 1:18 PM
CSA, if I take your challenge are you willing to take your Prius in a "shoot house" comp?

I'd take my pump action AK. But, that's another story. I guess your analogy wasn't as good as you would like to think it is. Or, are corvettes only good for quick short ranfe races? Are priuses really built to out perform corvettes in distance and precision? I really suggest stopping while you are behind and admitting that tou don't know what you're talkig about. Or, do you enjoy showing off you ignorance?

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 1:23 PM
I don't know if you guys missed the the same day the committee passed a bill that would basically make air gun manufacturers stop selling to CA. They are just out of control. Its like Obama with spending. Since they know the LA Times is never going to write anything bad about what they're doing, they just rush ahead with these crappy bills…

I've been considering moving upstate to Oregon

Merc1138
07-06-2012, 1:32 PM
I'm not under that assumption at all. I'm talking about bolt action AR vs semi auto AR, that's it. The original post mentioned 556 AR and I made a remark then it went to a pissing match from there.

Ok, so why is it a "vs.", they are two different guns. You don't use a hammer in place of a socket wrench, you use the appropriate tool for the job. Your remarks that caused the pissing match were(as I already mentioned) incorrect, and instead of absorbing new information, you started calling people clowns and what not(and did subsequently apologize for that). The reason why I flat-out told the OP to ignore you was because of the incorrect information you had been "providing", and then instead of accepting that maybe some people might know something you didn't, you decided to start challenging people(at which point CSACANNONEER called you out). I even agreed with you in regards to your question of "why?" when referring to changing a semi auto upper to manually operated upper because I think the SB249 paranoia(not that it doesn't need to be stopped) is misplaced in this instance.

Not every gun needs to be able to run in a shoot house, and the other benefit of the AR-15 platform is how easy it can be to switch uppers to end up with a rifle that suits a very different purpose while still being enjoyed(lets face it, most of the people on this forum aren't taking their guns into combat) by various people.

msand951
07-06-2012, 1:36 PM
Might as well go with this
http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=1744&cid=61 :lurk5:

Merc1138
07-06-2012, 1:37 PM
Might as well go with this
http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=1744&cid=61 :lurk5:

I'd get one for ****s and giggles if it wasn't $1200.

msand951
07-06-2012, 1:40 PM
It does look pretty cool. If you have the extra $$ why not.

Oceanbob
07-06-2012, 1:47 PM
Why hasn't someone converted an M-4 so that the hand guard PUMPS the action? This had ARs like this in South Africa. Anyone seen a PUMP AR?

That would be cool...an AR LEVER GUN..!!!..runs high caps (I call them normal AR magazines)....a lever maybe mounted up against the forward part of the handgrip....hmmm....I would like to see one...

FairfaxCA
07-06-2012, 2:05 PM
Bro-date, oyster bar?
tdbt-sx5MDc

It's a trap!
Bwahahahaha!!!

repubconserv
07-06-2012, 2:06 PM
how in the hell did this thread go from "I want to convert my 556 ar-15 into bolt action"
to "My 50bmg single shot upper will beat your 556 semi-auto at 1000 yards"?

Seriously it is stupid.

First, OP never said anything about long range. it sounds like he wants a plinker (he did after-all reference a 9mm upper that is sold in england.

Second, CSA, it is kinda obvious that a plinking gun is being discussed (with the OP referencing a 9mm upper) not a precision long range gun. I will take a semi auto 556 at 100 yds any day over a 556 "bolt action" at 100 yds. So untwist your panties and move on.

OP, Do not worry about making your gun "manual" right now. If you would like to buy a bolt upper, please do so. but don't go removing your gas tube right away just because you think Yees bill (if it even passes) will outlaw semi-auto guns. In other words, do not worry about converting your gun, until the time has come to worry about it. (over a year from now)

r8dr rider
07-06-2012, 2:15 PM
how in the hell did this thread go from "I want to convert my 556 ar-15 into bolt action"
to "My 50bmg single shot upper will beat your 556 semi-auto at 1000 yards"?

Seriously it is stupid...

Exactly!!!!!! I just expressed my opinion, then CSA gets heated up and wants to challenge me to a 1000 yard comp because I called a bolt action AR a Prius. Yes I showed my ignoranced by not knowing that 556 can hit 1000 yards but I think its a rarity and many members here wouldn't be able to pull it off with an average AR.

FairfaxCA
07-06-2012, 2:16 PM
ok so, even if this current 249 passes, BB's will still be legal

and if they later on redefine the definition of "fixed magazine" then we can go featureless.

I don't see what everyone's so scared about.

Let me see if I got this right.
To go featureless, the pistol grip has to go, Right?
If you add the grip wrap or hammer head, that may fall under the "Conversion Kit" rulling, Right?
So, I'm thinking if we loose the bb and have to weld the 10 round mags to the receiver, and have to remove the upper just to reload, I would rather simply remove the gas tube to keep my gun some what intact.
I could always re attach the gas tube in a SHTF situation.

repubconserv
07-06-2012, 2:24 PM
Let me see if I got this right.
To go featureless, the pistol grip has to go, Right?
If you add the grip wrap or hammer head, that may fall under the "Conversion Kit" rulling, Right?
So, I'm thinking if we loose the bb and have to weld the 10 round mags to the receiver, and have to remove the upper just to reload, I would rather simply remove the gas tube to keep my gun some what intact.
I could always re attach the gas tube in a SHTF situation.

Grip wrap or HH will not count as a conversion kit. A normal pistol grip just might count.

The way the laws are written now, a BB counts as a "non-detachable". Like I said before, if CGF (sometime in the future) says to modify our guns to make them legal, then do so. but as things are now, do not worry about modding your gun. We do not know WHAT the bill means yet, (it has not even passed yet) how can we know WHAT to do to our rifles to make then legal, if we do not even know WHAT the bill addresses? For now, worry about defeating the bill.

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 2:26 PM
Let me see if I got this right.
To go featureless, the pistol grip has to go, Right?
If you add the grip wrap or hammer head, that may fall under the "Conversion Kit" rulling, Right?
So, I'm thinking if we loose the bb and have to weld the 10 round mags to the receiver, and have to remove the upper just to reload, I would rather simply remove the gas tube to keep my gun some what intact.
I could always re attach the gas tube in a SHTF situation.

no, because the "conversion kit" only applies to fixed magazine rifles. your rifle will not be a fixed magazine rifle anymore.

any part that, when affixed to a firearm with a fixed
magazine, is designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

the key terms here are affixed to a firearm with a fixed magazine and designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm into an assault weapon

#1 The rifle is no longer a fixed magazine rifle.
#2 While the hammerhead/mm/kydex are designed solely and exclusively to change something, they're changing something from an AW to a non-AW.

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 2:27 PM
Grip wrap or HH will not count as a conversion kit. A normal pistol grip just might count.

The way the laws are written now, a BB counts as a "non-detachable". Like I said before, if CGF (sometime in the future) says to modify our guns to make them legal, then do so. but as things are now, do not worry about modding your gun. We do not know WHAT the bill means yet, (it has not even passed yet) how can we know WHAT to do to our rifles to make then legal, if we do not even know WHAT the bill addresses? For now, worry about defeating the bill.

a normal pistol grip won't either, because they are not solely and exclusively designed to turn a legal weapon into an AW.

standard AR PG's work on .22 lowers, M&P15-22s, etc.

So the "solely and exclusively" rules them out too.

FairfaxCA
07-06-2012, 2:34 PM
I'm not under that assumption at all. I'm talking about bolt action AR vs semi auto AR, that's it. The original post mentioned 556 AR and I made a remark then it went to a pissing match from there.

Hey, it's no big deal, your remark led the conversation in a direction that helped answer my question. So it's all good. :)

I like quirky people like you. Lol

repubconserv
07-06-2012, 2:38 PM
a normal pistol grip won't either, because they are not solely and exclusively designed to turn a legal weapon into an AW.

standard AR PG's work on .22 lowers, M&P15-22s, etc.

So the "solely and exclusively" rules them out too.

If you only have a featureless gun (say with MMG), and you have a PG laying around (from what I understand from the CGF bill analysis... which again is why I said "just might") you could be charged with having parts... etc... From what I understand

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 2:41 PM
If you only have a featureless gun (say with MMG), and you have a PG laying around (from what I understand from the CGF bill analysis... which again is why I said "just might") you could be charged with having parts... etc... From what I understand

it doesn't matter what you have, either way the PG is not designed solely and exclusively to convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic centerfire rifle into an AW.

If you have ZERO guns in the house, but own a mag-magnet after the ban, you are violating the law because you own a device designed solely and exclusively to convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic centerfire rifle into an AW.

I think the analysis was done on the old wording, which included:

(1) Any combination of parts that, when affixed to a firearm with
a fixed magazine, are designed and intended to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

In this case, yes i could see having a PG laying around being a cause for concern.

But it has since been amended to ONLY include the following:

any part that, when affixed to a firearm with a fixed
magazine, is designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

"designed and intended" is a lot different than "designed solely and exclusively"

repubconserv
07-06-2012, 2:42 PM
it doesn't matter what you have, either way the PG is not designed solely and exclusively to convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic centerfire rifle into an AW.

If you have ZERO guns in the house, but own a mag-magnet after the ban, you are violating the law because you own a device designed solely and exclusively to convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic centerfire rifle into an AW.

Unless you have a BB'd rimfire... so by your logic, a magmagnet is not designed solely to turn legal gun into AW because it works on rimfire too

FairfaxCA
07-06-2012, 2:46 PM
it doesn't matter what you have, either way the PG is not designed solely and exclusively to convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic centerfire rifle into an AW.

If you have ZERO guns in the house, but own a mag-magnet after the ban, you are violating the law because you own a device designed solely and exclusively to convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic centerfire rifle into an AW.

I think the analysis was done on the old wording, which included:

(1) Any combination of parts that, when affixed to a firearm with
a fixed magazine, are designed and intended to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

In this case, yes i could see having a PG laying around being a cause for concern.

But it has since been amended to ONLY include the following:

any part that, when affixed to a firearm with a fixed
magazine, is designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

Checkout my MAGNETIC earring made by Solar Tactical. If it's an earring it's not a bullet button

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/23482007@N03/7503908924/

repubconserv
07-06-2012, 2:48 PM
it doesn't matter what you have, either way the PG is not designed solely and exclusively to convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic centerfire rifle into an AW.

If you have ZERO guns in the house, but own a mag-magnet after the ban, you are violating the law because you own a device designed solely and exclusively to convert a fixed magazine semi-automatic centerfire rifle into an AW.

I think the analysis was done on the old wording, which included:

(1) Any combination of parts that, when affixed to a firearm with
a fixed magazine, are designed and intended to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

In this case, yes i could see having a PG laying around being a cause for concern.

But it has since been amended to ONLY include the following:

any part that, when affixed to a firearm with a fixed
magazine, is designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

"designed and intended" is a lot different than "designed solely and exclusively"

Aha, I see now... kinda.... thanks

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 2:53 PM
Unless you have a BB'd rimfire... so by your logic, a magmagnet is not designed solely to turn legal gun into AW because it works on rimfire too

There are no BB'd rimfires, because rimfires are exempt from AW laws other than overall length

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 2:55 PM
Checkout my MAGNETIC earring made by Solar Tactical. If it's an earring it's not a bullet button

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2348200...in/photostream

i could also affix a hairbrush handle to my rifle with epoxy and screws

is that illegal to own a hairbrush in my home now?

no, solely and exclusively means just that

repubconserv
07-06-2012, 3:07 PM
There are no BB'd rimfires, because rimfires are exempt from AW laws other than overall length

you sure about that? You telling me that no one here has a BBd centerfire semi-auto rifle with a 22 conversion upper?

Mossy Man
07-06-2012, 3:44 PM
you sure about that? You telling me that no one here has a BBd centerfire semi-auto rifle with a 22 conversion upper?

Typically they use radlocks, I'd guess.

Merc1138
07-06-2012, 3:54 PM
Typically they use radlocks, I'd guess.

Doesn't matter what they'd typically use(a BB with a wonder wrench would also be fine), as a "mag magnet" makes sense. Even if you don't have a reason to use a mag magnet, wonder wrench, etc. in CA, there are still people who travel outside of CA and use them there so banning possession is bogus.

CSACANNONEER
07-07-2012, 8:38 AM
how in the hell did this thread go from "I want to convert my 556 ar-15 into bolt action"
to "My 50bmg single shot upper will beat your 556 semi-auto at 1000 yards"?

Seriously it is stupid.

First, OP never said anything about long range. it sounds like he wants a plinker (he did after-all reference a 9mm upper that is sold in england.

Second, CSA, it is kinda obvious that a plinking gun is being discussed (with the OP referencing a 9mm upper) not a precision long range gun. I will take a semi auto 556 at 100 yds any day over a 556 "bolt action" at 100 yds. So untwist your panties and move on.

OP, Do not worry about making your gun "manual" right now. If you would like to buy a bolt upper, please do so. but don't go removing your gas tube right away just because you think Yees bill (if it even passes) will outlaw semi-auto guns. In other words, do not worry about converting your gun, until the time has come to worry about it. (over a year from now)

The op is looking to convert his 5.56 rifle into a bolt action. I converted one of mine with a bolt action upper chambered in the most common cartridge for bolt action upper in the US. Even you noticed that the op is looking at changing caliber and cartridges. So, showing the op what the most common bolt action uppers in the US is not right because he posted an example of a upper chambered in a pistol cartridge?

Yea, the op didn't mention what type or distances he would be shooting at. I never assumed he did. But, it looks like you have. I brought up long range shooting when weber made his poor analogy and I challenged him to prove his point. His complete and total ignorance on bolt action uppers and even 5.56 long range shooting were obvious yet, he kept trying to be the resident expert.

As far as your choose in 5.56 rifles at 100 yards goes, what does that have to do with anything? Even you pointed out that the op is looking at other cartridges and he never said how far he wants to shoot. He just wants information on bolt action ARs and not your opinion on what type of action is better for you.

Mossy Man
07-07-2012, 9:03 AM
Doesn't matter what they'd typically use(a BB with a wonder wrench would also be fine), as a "mag magnet" makes sense. Even if you don't have a reason to use a mag magnet, wonder wrench, etc. in CA, there are still people who travel outside of CA and use them there so banning possession is bogus.

I guess in the end there are just too many variables and CA is continuing its trend of making gun laws so confusing that not only they, their enforcement officers, and the public can't understand.

maybe our gov. should ask the rest of the union how they deal with "assault weapons" and prevent mass mayhem

CSACANNONEER
07-07-2012, 9:05 AM
Exactly!!!!!! I just expressed my opinion, then CSA gets heated up and wants to challenge me to a 1000 yard comp because I called a bolt action AR a Prius. Yes I showed my ignoranced by not knowing that 556 can hit 1000 yards but I think its a rarity and many members here wouldn't be able to pull it off with an average AR.

You showed your ignorance in more ways than one. The op has a 5.56 rifle that he is obviously the op is considering other calibers and isn't committed to staying with a 22 caliber cartridge. But, admitting a portion of your ignorance is a start and I commend you for that. You might be surprised to learn just how many people here actually have ARs set up for 1000 yard shooting.

Mossy Man
07-07-2012, 9:12 AM
You showed your ignorance in more ways than one. The op has a 5.56 rifle that he is obviously the op is considering other calibers and isn't committed to staying with a 22 caliber cartridge. But, admitting a portion of your ignorance is a start and I commend you for that. You might be surprised to learn just how many people here actually have ARs set up for 1000 yard shooting.

I'm just thinking along the lines of if Yee is actually successful and bans my AR15 in its current form... I should have a back up plan. Of course I will keep the left over parts.


I'm not trying to butt in, but from the first page of the thread, it's obvious the OP wasn't out looking for a bolt-action option just because he wanted a bolt-action weapon.

He was looking for a fall-back plan so he could keep his AR should things go awry with lawmaking.

FairfaxCA
07-07-2012, 3:42 PM
I'm not trying to butt in, but from the first page of the thread, it's obvious the OP wasn't out looking for a bolt-action option just because he wanted a bolt-action weapon.

He was looking for a fall-back plan so he could keep his AR should things go awry with lawmaking.

Ding ding ding ding!
And the winner of the kewpi doll is.....
Yes exactly.
But I don't mind the conversation meandering a bit.
It is funny how people get worked up though.

Mossy Man
07-07-2012, 4:52 PM
Ding ding ding ding!
And the winner of the kewpi doll is.....
Yes exactly.
But I don't mind the conversation meandering a bit.
It is funny how people get worked up though.

lol well you know my opinion on 249 and the memo.

We need to fight this bill without question, but we are not without options and featureless is still a much better option than top-loading or single-shot.

Plisk
07-07-2012, 5:32 PM
A service rifle has a stainless barrel??

It's common place in Service Rifle Competitions. That is a competition built rifle, but they have to fall under set limitations for existing or existed service rifles.

FairfaxCA
07-07-2012, 6:37 PM
Found this UK video bolt action shooting. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QTHECgM1APQ