PDA

View Full Version : OAL when it comes to Underfolders


P.W.
07-04-2012, 5:23 PM
My question is pertaining to the 30" Overall Length requirement in the state. I've been hashing this out with another gent who seems to think that a Muzzle Device needs to be permanently fixed to meet our state 30" OAL requirement even when the barrel is 16"+. I was under the impression that there is no "Permanence" requirement as long as the barrel is 16" and it meets 30" OAL folded as I've seen this posted here a hundred times before.

The type of MD which would be used would be this one to all ow the use of the folder.
https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/82/products_id/2483

Now I understand that we need to adhere to the State's 30" OAL requirement as stated here 12276.1. (a) section (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

The person questioning this stated "AOL get measured with the folder folded and at the muzzle.
This is understandable
"The muzzle is defined as the end of the barrel. A muzzle device used to make length that is NOT perm attached is just a long muzzle device. "
If there is no Permanence requirement and we are not "Measuring the Barrel length then wouldn't we measure from tip to tip ?

So is there a specific method in which the OAL of a Underfolder or Sidefolder is measured ? And is there any case law or legal ruling that I can use to help educate this fellow if I am indeed correct that we do not need to permanently attach a Muzzle Device to meet the 30" OAL.

starsnuffer
07-04-2012, 5:27 PM
You are correct, there is no need to attach the muzzle device permanently. This also holds true for the other end of the rifle. There is no need for a device that blocks the stock from folding to be permanent either.

-W

Merc1138
07-04-2012, 5:29 PM
Yes, there was a case(can't remember the name). They measure it in it's shortest shootable configuration(as opposed to ATF who measures with the stock extended).

It is also correct that it doesn't need to be permanent. The only permanence required is for barrel length. You won't find a law about this because the law doesn't work that way. It specifies what you can't do, not what you can do.

Merc1138
07-04-2012, 5:31 PM
You are correct, there is no need to attach the muzzle device permanently. This also holds true for the other end of the rifle. There is no need for a device that blocks the stock from folding to be permanent either.

-W

While that is correct, it's a little too easy for someone to decide to fold it and claim it was found that way.

insin
07-04-2012, 5:52 PM
You are correct, there is no need to attach the muzzle device permanently. This also holds true for the other end of the rifle. There is no need for a device that blocks the stock from folding to be permanent either.

-W

What are people using to block the stocks which are not permanent?

P.W.
07-04-2012, 6:12 PM
What are people using to block the stocks which are not permanent?

There is no need to block the stock if it meets the 30" OAL. However you can follow the directions set here if you need to non-permanently have the stock unfolded to meet OAL.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=185188

P.W.
07-05-2012, 12:52 PM
Can someone explain the process of measuring the OAL if there is a specific process. I am trying to "Prove" that since there is No "Permanence" for a MD to be attached if the Rifle is a Federal Complain Non-NFA weapon and also meets 30" OAL with that MD. This all stemmed from a thread where a CA resident was trying to purchase a Polish Underfolder from a resident outside the state. I just want to make the Seller understand and anyone who views the information that it is completely legal to ship a rifle w/ a long Muzzle Brake attached with a mag lock as it meets CA current Laws.

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 12:58 PM
Umm, I already told you in post #3. If you're looking for a law to quote to this person, it doesn't exist.

P.W.
07-05-2012, 1:07 PM
I understand that Merc and appreciate the response. I'm trying to prove that when measuring CA OAL that when its folded you wouldn't "Need" to unscrew the MD and measure the from the Rear of the Receiver to the "Crown". I guess there is confusion that By definition the muzzle is part of the barrel and The Muzzle Device only acts as a muzzle if it is permanently attached.

Merc1138
07-05-2012, 1:09 PM
The muzzle device is part of the rifle, not the barrel(unless it were permanently attached, then it's also part of the barrel).

Via google from searching: CA OAL measurement case

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-562052.html

Read bwiese's posts.

edit: I just noticed you even replied to that thread already. Still, read bwiese's posts. You keep asking for "proof", it does not exist outside of the rooney case, period.

P.W.
07-05-2012, 1:16 PM
Roger that Merc, I appreciate it.

Mamluke
07-05-2012, 3:21 PM
I have the underfolder, and here's what you need to know:

The rifle OAL must be at least 30 inches in a firing configuration.
No permanence is required for a muzzle attachment.

Folded with extended muzzle:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/LavaBull/AKMS2-1.jpg

What blocked my folder:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/LavaBull/IMG_0034.jpg

Closeup of Aimsmall muzzle device:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/LavaBull/IMG_0067.jpg

.....

.....

P.W.
07-05-2012, 4:02 PM
That is my understanding. I have a Polish Kit I have yet to build and am still planning on using the Aimsmall MD. I was just trying to educate someone from a different state who has the rationale that unless its specifically stated in a law or Penal Code that there is "No Permanence" for the MD to meet OAL then it is illegal.

Thanks for all the help Gents, I greatly appreciate it.

P.S. for your amusement, thread in question:
http://tinyurl.com/8xskz5f