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View Full Version : SB 249 vs. Raddlock?


DubCee
07-03-2012, 6:23 PM
Seeing how many of us use the raddlock on our AR-15s, would SB 249 affect the raddlock or its usage in any way? I know that Yee is targeting mag magnets , but how does the term "Conversion kit" affect the raddlock? Like a lot of 2nd amendment limiting legislation, the terminology is vague. How does the bill define "Conversion kit?"

AeroEngi
07-03-2012, 7:07 PM
It doesn't define "conversion kit". That's the problem. The term "conversion kit" could mean anything.

MrPlink
07-03-2012, 7:19 PM
Ibtl

m1a1driver
07-03-2012, 7:35 PM
in the raddlocks case I can see them arguing that a simple screwdriver that fits the raddlock to switch it to position 2 can be considered a conversion kit.

M1NM
07-03-2012, 7:44 PM
As I read it 249 won't affect featureless builds - then you're free to dump the 10 round magazines in favor of those 30 rounders we've all been saving since 1999.

Right???

AmpedUp
07-03-2012, 8:05 PM
in the raddlocks case I can see them arguing that a simple screwdriver that fits the raddlock to switch it to position 2 can be considered a conversion kit.

BAN THE SCREWDRIVERS!!! QUICK Think of the children!!!!!!!:p

strongpoint
07-03-2012, 8:14 PM
It doesn't define "conversion kit". That's the problem. The term "conversion kit" could mean anything.

wtf? there's an entire section of the bill that does nothing BUT define "conversion kit."

Prc329
07-03-2012, 8:32 PM
Looks like they have removed language from the bill. It really looks like they are going after the mag magnet now. They made it a little more specific now. If its solely meant to make it an assault weapon its banned in this bill. It still sucks.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. Section 30527 is added to the Penal Code, to read:
30527. (a) As used in this chapter a "conversion kit" means
either of the following:
(1) Any combination of parts that, when affixed to a firearm with
a fixed magazine, are designed and intended to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

(A) Paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.

(B) Paragraph (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.

(C) Paragraph (7) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.
(2) Any
any part that, when affixed to a firearm with a fixed
magazine, is designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:
(A)
(1) Paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.

(B)
(2) Paragraph (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.

(C)
(3) Paragraph (7) of subdivision (a) of Section 30515.
(b) This section shall become operative on July 1, 2013.
SEC. 2. Section 30618 is added to the Penal Code, to read:
30618. (a) No person shall import into this state, make, sell,
loan, transfer , or possess a conversion kit.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0201-0250/sb_249_bill_20120627_amended_asm_v94.html

DubCee
07-03-2012, 8:56 PM
That's awesome that they are wasting my tax dollars and floor time on this bill. Everyone here on this forum knows not to touch a mag magnet with a ten foot pole.... Thank you senator Yee for Proposing legislation on something that's already illegal. God forbid he try to ban hi cap mags.

Prc329
07-03-2012, 9:15 PM
To me it looks like Yee is trying to save face. He knows this bill is stupid and doesn't do anything but criminalize and already criminal act according to the current crappy AW law.

Sonic_mike
07-03-2012, 9:23 PM
Can I still have my shark fin soup?

1911su16b870
07-03-2012, 9:43 PM
Any 10-32 bolt would be a conversion kit.

seainc
07-03-2012, 9:47 PM
No and no 'foie gras" either.

Can I still have my shark fin soup?

strongpoint
07-03-2012, 9:48 PM
Any 10-32 bolt would be a conversion kit.

"designed solely and exclusively."

Mossy Man
07-03-2012, 9:54 PM
Can I still have my shark fin soup?

as an American Calgunner of chinese descent, i am somewhat upset that they banned this food item in our state, but i am mostly uncaring.

ohlone
07-04-2012, 12:08 AM
banning something already illegal, i guess Yee is just using this bill to bring up more bills. law makers are not always stupid, sometimes they are smart. Yee brought up the bill (the one prior to June 27), if no one against it, he would be happy to ban all of our ARs and AKs, will leave mini14 rules the range. now he knows some law makers may not like his original bill due to the number of people against it, so he changed the wording, of coz still leaves holes to ban more than the mag magnet. maybe he is really smart.

Riksk
07-04-2012, 12:36 AM
So the consensus seems to be that raddlocks are safe? Cause I was gonna be buying one this weekend.

Thanks,
Riksk

louisianagirl
07-04-2012, 7:06 AM
any part that, when affixed to a firearm with a fixed
magazine, is designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following:

so a mag magnet with a key chain ring is good to go?

DarkSoul
07-04-2012, 7:25 AM
so a mag magnet with a key chain ring is good to go?

Everything that is currently legal is still legal, this bill is not a law yet, and will not be for at least a few months at the earliest, it still has to go through appropriations, and then the actual senate floor to be voted on.

Worst case, if the bill does become law, it will kick on July 1 of 2013, but there is still time, everyone needs to write there representative, and senators voicing your opposition to the bill.

The mag magnet, even on a keychain, is still very much in that gray area and really pushing the envelope, my own personal recommendation is to get a real bullet button such as the radlock.

donw
07-04-2012, 9:39 AM
forgive my ignorance...

the bullet button i have now requires the tip of a bullet (or similar tool pressed thru a tiny hole it's recessed in) against it to activate it as it's spring loaded.

is that a Radlock?

Sonic_mike
07-04-2012, 9:47 AM
forgive my ignorance...

the bullet button i have now requires the tip of a bullet (or similar tool pressed thru a tiny hole it's recessed in) against it to activate it as it's spring loaded.

is that a Radlock?

If it looks like this then yes.
http://www.nationalgunsupply.com//v/vspfiles/photos/CA-RADDLOCK-2T.gif

Sonic_mike
07-04-2012, 9:48 AM
as an American Calgunner of chinese descent, i am somewhat upset that they banned this food item in our state, but i am mostly uncaring.

Damn I never got a chance to taste it :( oh well.

Mossy Man
07-04-2012, 9:53 AM
Damn I never got a chance to taste it :( oh well.

not missing much

chinese restaurants are serving fake sharks fin soup

i can't tell the difference

donw
07-04-2012, 10:07 AM
If it looks like this then yes.
http://www.nationalgunsupply.com//v/vspfiles/photos/CA-RADDLOCK-2T.gif

yes..it does...but it doesn't have the "O" rings and the four nipples sticking out of the corners.

thanks

Sonic_mike
07-04-2012, 10:36 AM
prince50 then?

http://www.riflegear.com/images/product/medium/58_1_.jpg

donw
07-04-2012, 10:55 AM
prince50 then?

http://www.riflegear.com/images/product/medium/58_1_.jpg

yes...that's the one...

roushstage2
07-04-2012, 12:38 PM
yes...that's the one...
More likely the regular Bullet Button (which pretty much looks the exact same). The Prince50 locks the mag in place and you top load it.

motorwerks
07-04-2012, 1:04 PM
I guess the other way would be to actually lock it in place with the old prince 50, and epoxy over the set screw hole, then load through the top. I may just move it this **** goes through, but for now I'll stay and fight the fight with you all.

Mossy Man
07-04-2012, 1:19 PM
I guess the other way would be to actually lock it in place with the old prince 50, and epoxy over the set screw hole, then load through the top. I may just move it this **** goes through, but for now I'll stay and fight the fight with you all.

Even if sb249 becomes law, bullet buttons will still be legal. BB equipped rifles are by definition NOT AWs.

The fear was in its original vague wording, which has since changed to specifically describe mechanisms like the mag magnet.

AeroEngi
07-04-2012, 1:39 PM
wtf? there's an entire section of the bill that does nothing BUT define "conversion kit."

So based on that entire section of the bill that defines "conversion kit", can you tell me exactly and with certain what this bill will ban if passed into law? The bill is too vague. Conversion kit could mean almost anything.

Say for example you have one featureless AR and one featured AR. All the features on your featured AR become a conversion kit because it can potentially turn your featureless AR into an AW. If they're going after the mag magnet then they have to be a bit more specific. Or you can look at it in a different way. The standard mag release button on your featureless AR can turn your featured AR into an AW, hence making the standard mag release a conversion kit.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Prc329
07-04-2012, 1:58 PM
So based on that entire section of the bill that defines "conversion kit", can you tell me exactly and with certain what this bill will ban if passed into law? The bill is too vague. Conversion kit could mean almost anything.

Say for example you have one featureless AR and one featured AR. All the features on your featured AR become a conversion kit because it can potentially turn your featureless AR into an AW. If they're going after the mag magnet then they have to be a bit more specific. Or you can look at it in a different way. The standard mag release button on your featureless AR can turn your featured AR into an AW, hence making the standard mag release a conversion kit.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

The way the bill reads now after they stuck the first section specifies items designed to make it an AW. A pistol grip will not make your bullet button equipped rifle an AW. I do not think a standard mag release will be considered a conversion kit since it is not designed to bypass a fixed mag.

any part that, when affixed to a firearm with a fixed
magazine, is designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by one of the following

So it has to be solely designed for converting a rifle to an AW. The mag magnet takes a fixed mag rifle and makes it a detachable mag rifle. A pistol grip laying around doesn't since it is not designed for the sole purpose of making an AW as defined in the AW law.

Its still a crappy unneeded bill. Its basically like making driving over the speed limit illegal and the turning around and banning aftermarket superchargers cause they make your car capable of speeding.

strongpoint
07-04-2012, 4:38 PM
prc329 has me covered on all points, although i felt the first draft of the bill (prior to the amendment of 6/27) was already clear enough on its face. he's correct that the current version makes it more clear.

for those of us who are really worried for our bullet buttons, the memo (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=8857383&postcount=926) from yee and state senate president darrell steinberg to the DOJ requesting a revision of the definition of "fixed magazine" should be INFINITELY more troubling than SB 249. i can't stress this enough.

Speedpower
07-05-2012, 12:56 PM
Looks like owning just AK's are way to go! as there is no way that you can attach a "Mag Magnet"!

AfghanVetOrcutt
07-05-2012, 1:25 PM
prc329 has me covered on all points, although i felt the first draft of the bill (prior to the amendment of 6/27) was already clear enough on its face. he's correct that the current version makes it more clear.

for those of us who are really worried for our bullet buttons, the memo (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=8857383&postcount=926) from yee and state senate president darrell steinberg to the DOJ requesting a revision of the definition of "fixed magazine" should be INFINITELY more troubling than SB 249. i can't stress this enough.

I read that memo and the other one linked in that post...:mad:

"Mass mayhem"??? Cuz there is a TON of mass mayhem going on in the rest of the country that allows 30 round mags, normal magazine release and select fire!!!! RUN FOR THE F*CKING HILLS, MASS MAYHEM IS COMING!!!

F*cking pinko commie b@stards!!! I hate the bleeding heart liberals.

/End Rant

esnyderr
07-05-2012, 9:41 PM
First time reading that memo and it is definitely scarier than SB249

problemchild
07-06-2012, 3:58 AM
So any person or factory with small magnets that might fit the hole would become Felons?

strongpoint
07-06-2012, 5:47 AM
So any person or factory with small magnets that might fit the hole would become Felons?

*sigh*

no.

mrvash
07-06-2012, 9:31 AM
I have a question, does a featureless AR fall unger the same class of rifles like the Mini 14/30's, Kel-Tec's so if SB 249 passes to include featureless rifles, wouldn't those other rifles be affected?

Dantedamean
07-06-2012, 11:48 AM
I see a few problems here.
With the readdlock it is installed in the AR already, there is nothing to "affix" to the firearm that converts it to an assault weapon. So if they do outlaw the Raddlock and other smaller devices, they would need to give us a chance to register our weapons that already have them legally installed.
I'm not saying that is what they are going to do, that is what they should do.

roushstage2
07-06-2012, 12:09 PM
There's a lot of things they "should do," but won't...ever.

bomb_on_bus
07-07-2012, 9:34 AM
My biggest problem is with SB 249 even with its current wording is that it can be later amended to include other things etc. The current wording to me seems just a smoke screen to try and get the bill passed with as little opposition as possible then once SB 249 is law then the problems can really start for CA gun owners. This bill has to be stopped.

bbsmth
07-07-2012, 9:47 AM
My biggest problem is with SB 249 even with its current wording is that it can be later amended to include other things etc. The current wording to me seems just a smoke screen to try and get the bill passed with as little opposition as possible then once SB 249 is law then the problems can really start for CA gun owners. This bill has to be stopped.

Oh Yee of little faith... ;)