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View Full Version : 12 Gauge home defence loads?


spitfirejes
07-02-2012, 12:28 AM
First off sorry for trolling or fishing for answers or whatever you want to call it but I'm curious to see some others answers.

So I have been messing around loading some 12 gauge shot shell with random crap and think I have found my load for home defence. the longest distance in my house is just over 35 feet so that is the longest distance I tested them at (though most test shots were taken from around 15 feet).

My favorite and what I think would be most effective in my situation is: two 30 cal lead shot balls (same kind I use in my black powder deringer) with some bb's with the rest filled with #8 shot. Shot quite a few at some 5/8 plywood with targets stapled to them at different distances and it seemed pretty danged effective.

Anyone have any other little custom loads they enjoy or would use for defence?


Thanks,

JES

fighterpilot562
07-02-2012, 1:19 AM
You have a video or picture of the damage it did?

comblock
07-02-2012, 1:26 AM
handloaded ammo for HD has been discussed before. I cant remember off the top of my head what the consensus was. Im thinking most saw it as a no-no based upon the after-shooting events you may encounter (trial, etc), just like your sig line, but you may want to read through the threads and formulate your own opinions.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-563329.html
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-494889.html

Mongoblack23
07-02-2012, 1:26 AM
standard practice, DO NOT use home loads for self defense. shotgun or metalic cartridge.
EDIT: yeah, i type slow...

spitfirejes
07-02-2012, 2:16 AM
You have a video or picture of the damage it did?

I should have taken a video but did not I will next weekend and post it up.

handloaded ammo for HD has been discussed before. I cant remember off the top of my head what the consensus was. Im thinking most saw it as a no-no based upon the after-shooting events you may encounter (trial, etc), just like your sig line, but you may want to read through the threads and formulate your own opinions.


I don't usually use reloads in my pistol or rifles just the shotgun. After reading the your answers I did a quick google search at some court cases and I do believe it is for the lack of a better word humorous. The cases I looked at where people were criticized that their reloads or custom handloads were designed to "kill or severly mame" their attacker (because standard ammunition is not meant to do the same thing) what a joke. The legal system is apparently even more FUBAR than I had previously thought.



Well thank you very much for the info guys.

PEZHEAD265
07-02-2012, 7:50 AM
If you miss with the 2 30 cal balls the rest of the shot doesn't have enough penertration.Centurion makes a ball and shot combo and so do a few others.I would stick with the store bought stuff.

paratroop
07-02-2012, 9:06 AM
I've been a fan of #4 buck lately. I used to really like the buck and ball from centurion, never a problem with my 500a, but it jams up my 500 every time. Anything from 000 to 4 buckshot should be good to go.

gunnerstuff
07-02-2012, 9:25 AM
00 Buck works wonders.

As far as all the legal crap, it is just your $$$ trying to defend yourself. I would like to give the 'opposition' as little ammo as possible in a court of law.

repubconserv
07-02-2012, 10:08 AM
00 buck

[/thread]

hossb7
07-02-2012, 10:14 AM
If I was going to use a shotgun for home defense I would look no further than 00 buck - specifically Federal Flite Control rounds. I have patterned them through my 870 and they group inside of 8-10 inches at around 30-35 yards.

Richard Erichsen
07-02-2012, 10:37 AM
First off sorry for trolling or fishing for answers or whatever you want to call it but I'm curious to see some others answers.

So I have been messing around loading some 12 gauge shot shell with random crap and think I have found my load for home defence. the longest distance in my house is just over 35 feet so that is the longest distance I tested them at (though most test shots were taken from around 15 feet).

My favorite and what I think would be most effective in my situation is: two 30 cal lead shot balls (same kind I use in my black powder deringer) with some bb's with the rest filled with #8 shot. Shot quite a few at some 5/8 plywood with targets stapled to them at different distances and it seemed pretty danged effective.

Anyone have any other little custom loads they enjoy or would use for defence?


Thanks,

JES

HD demands factory ammo for reliability and legal reasons. Use your custom mashed hulls for play time, target shooting or removing the feathers from a turkey's broad side.

R

Legasat
07-02-2012, 12:07 PM
Nope! No handloads. Just reduced recoil 00 Buck for me!

CK_32
07-02-2012, 12:20 PM
Pics or didn't happen.

sholling
07-02-2012, 12:54 PM
I keep 5rds on 00 buck followed by 2 slugs in my Benelli. The nice thing about the M1 S90 is that it recoils soft enough and cycles fast enough to double tap like a handgun. A 00 buck double tap to center mass is enough to ruin any home invader's day.

CEDaytonaRydr
07-02-2012, 1:06 PM
I use #4 Buck. More pellets and less chance for over-penetration... ;)

JON KARGATHALON
07-02-2012, 1:18 PM
my 870 HD is set up like this,

00BUCK
00BUCK
1oz SLUG
00BUCK
00BUCK
1oz SLUG
00BUCK
00BUCK

And a Beretta px4 9mm for a sidearm with winchester HP +P

Never had to use it, and if i do have to, walls or car doors wont save the SOB:D (i know i cant chase someone outside, but for the sake of firepower I load these)

NYCShooter
07-02-2012, 3:03 PM
#1 buck, 00 buck; #4 buck is only marginally effective.

NYCShooter
07-02-2012, 3:10 PM
my 870 HD is set up like this,

00BUCK
00BUCK
1oz SLUG
00BUCK
00BUCK
1oz SLUG
00BUCK
00BUCK

And a Beretta px4 9mm for a sidearm with winchester HP +P

Never had to use it, and if i do have to, walls or car doors wont save the SOB:D (i know i cant chase someone outside, but for the sake of firepower I load these)

Mixing loads is call "Dutch loading", and is never a good idea. In the heat of a firefight, you will not remember the loading order. Best to KISS.

AAShooter
07-02-2012, 3:16 PM
Mixing loads is call "Dutch loading", and is never a good idea. In the heat of a firefight, you will not remember the loading order. Best to KISS.

I know of no serious instructor/school teaching defensive shotgun recommend this approach. It has never made sense to me. 00 buck with slugs in a side saddle makes sense to me.

gun toting monkeyboy
07-02-2012, 3:27 PM
The internet myth of home loads getting you in trouble after a shoot is just that. A myth. Either it was a good shoot, or it wasn't. Deadly force is deadly force. That said, I would go with store-bought for reliability reasons. That, and your load doesn't sound all that effective. 2 small buckshot (between #1 and 0), some BBs and some #8 sounds like too much of a gamble that your 2 buckshot are going to do leathal damage. The BBs are likely to penetrate some, but not enough to ensure fatal wounds. The #8 will make a mess of the skin, but mostly just piss them off. Yes, it blows the hell out of plywood at that range, but plywood reacts totally different than tissue. If you want to see what I mean, go grab a pork shoulder and shoot that at 35 feet. You'll see what I mean. Add a layer or two of denim over it, and you will change your mind completely. There are too many very effective rounds out there to bother with your home loads for self defense. 00 Buck, preferably unplated, seems to be the most popular choice. Followed by #4 Buck. There are reduced recoil loads out there that are still very effective at HD ranges, but lower the chances of the pellets going through walls. I am perfectly happy with #4 Buck. I prefer #1 buck, but it is often harder to find. I also don't go with the max loads. That is all a matter of personal preference. But I would still steer clear of loads like you described.

-Mb

prc77
07-02-2012, 7:39 PM
Mixing loads is call "Dutch loading", and is never a good idea. In the heat of a firefight, you will not remember the loading order. Best to KISS.

I agree, keep it all the same in the tube and on the sidesaddle,,, for HD

AAShooter
07-02-2012, 8:00 PM
Why I don't use birdshot:

http://www.whatsonningbo.com/news_images/a3812b5006e66652_pellets2.jpg

http://www.whatsonningbo.com/news-3722-uk-man-joe-clarke-survives-being-peppered-with-by-150-shotgun-pellets.html

Mr. Beretta
07-02-2012, 8:51 PM
Federal LE12700.

Finest CQB 12 ga load IMHO.

And ref: "over penetration, if you can't hit what you're shooting at, then why are you shooting at it in the first place? :confused:

kcjr1125
07-02-2012, 9:22 PM
Ouch! Moral of the story bird shot is for birds not human unless you are trying to skin them alive. 00 buck for me.

spitfirejes
07-02-2012, 11:46 PM
Thank you all I'll just stick to my buckshot then. (#4 buck was what I was using before playing around with my reloads) I am planning to mess around with reloads again this weekend and I'll post a video of my results.

jokat989
07-03-2012, 4:45 PM
step1 use a slug
step 2 dont miss

SoCalXD
07-09-2012, 7:27 PM
You're original concept of a mixed shot size in a single shell has historically referred to a Malaysian load, probably due to British use when they ruled it.

As for the ideal loading... Like birdshot, #4 buckshot does not have sufficient penetration in ballistics gel when tested with heavy clothing. that's why either #1 Buck, or 00-Buck are the odds on favorites for LEO use. Don't risk your life to #4 Buck, brother.

bernieb90
07-09-2012, 7:40 PM
step1 use a slug
step 2 dont miss

Why not just use a carbine. .223/5.56 is ideal for the urban environment with good terminal performance, higher capacity than most shotguns, and way less recoil ( perfect for women, and smaller guys). If you want a bit more oomph you can step up to 6.8 SPC or .300 BLK without a significant increase in recoil.

Contrary to what some believe penetration is on par or even less than with most service caliber pistol loads, and larger buckshot through tissue, and common building materials.

Saber2Golf
07-10-2012, 6:17 PM
2nd on the "don't use hand loads" being FUD. A clean shoot is a clean shoot. Put a light on your gun, get positive ID on your target, and shoot to stop the threat. Cops will have no reason to dig deeper than that.

Also, 2nd on the 5.56mm being a good choice. Experiments have proved they're shockingly good at not over penetrating building materials, whereas shotguns depend on load choice to avoid over penetration. As for "stopping power"...maybe the shotgun is still a better choice :)

AAShooter
07-10-2012, 6:22 PM
Why not just use a carbine. .223/5.56 is ideal for the urban environment with good terminal performance, higher capacity than most shotguns, and way less recoil ( perfect for women, and smaller guys). If you want a bit more oomph you can step up to 6.8 SPC or .300 BLK without a significant increase in recoil.

Contrary to what some believe penetration is on par or even less than with most service caliber pistol loads, and larger buckshot through tissue, and common building materials.

Agreed. It makes no sense to be to use a shotgun with slugs (essentially turning it into a rifle) and give up the advantages of a shotgun. To me you press a shotgun into service with a slug only when necessary in a defensive situation (in most cases).

SoCalXD
07-10-2012, 7:55 PM
Why not just use a carbine. .223/5.56 is ideal for the urban environment with good terminal performance, higher capacity than most shotguns, and way less recoil ( perfect for women, and smaller guys). If you want a bit more oomph you can step up to 6.8 SPC or .300 BLK without a significant increase in recoil.

A bit off the OP topic, but I second that motion! I went to 5.56 carbine for HD and 7.62x39 for a truckgun last year. The only strong argument for a shotgun for HD is the low price of pump gun... $350 or so for a pump is a manageable price for those on a tight budget, where as our racer-rick carbines take a bit more cash in a cash-strapped world. I vote 12ga, AK, then AR, in that order, depending upon what the bank account dictates!

2barrels
07-10-2012, 9:05 PM
00 buck is what i load hopefully 1 shot is all that is needed

scglock
07-10-2012, 9:18 PM
00 buck is more than enough. Mixing defense rounds in your tube is pointless. I'd keep the slugs in the side saddle

bernieb90
07-10-2012, 11:31 PM
A bit off the OP topic, but I second that motion! I went to 5.56 carbine for HD and 7.62x39 for a truckgun last year. The only strong argument for a shotgun for HD is the low price of pump gun... $350 or so for a pump is a manageable price for those on a tight budget, where as our racer-rick carbines take a bit more cash in a cash-strapped world. I vote 12ga, AK, then AR, in that order, depending upon what the bank account dictates!

I wasn't really implying that one shouldn't use a shotgun for HD, but one should be aware of the limitations of such a weapon.

With proper loading (no gimmicks) such as 00 or #1 tactical low recoil buckshot the shotgun is a devastating close range weapon for HD. The price we pay for this is recoil (mitigated somewhat by semi-auto, or low recoil loads, but still much more than .223/5.56 carbines), and capacity limits/reload speed. Range is really not a big issue in most homes as most shots will probably be under 40ft. Slugs are not really appropriate for most HD situations as they turn your shotgun into a low capacity heavy rifle with excessive penetration.

Selecting slugs in the middle of a gunfight doesn't sound like the simplest thing in the world to do under stress. Also note that some slugs have bases that detatch in flight and become secondary projectiles. At close range these can be quite dangerous so precision shooting (read hostage rescue) can become an iffy proposition.

The carbine has lighter recoil (easily handled by females, and smaller shooters), faster followups (for most people), greater capacity (10 rds at least more if featureless with mags found in trash can), faster reloads (especially when featureless), greater mobility (in light weight configurations), and possibly shorter overall length (with stock attached due to 16" vs 18" min barrel length). Carbines can make hits from 0-several hundred yards with great precision using the same ammunition (kiss is your friend). Modern barrier blind 223/5.56will provide penetration on par with service pistol loads and buckshot through a variety of barriers, and soft tissue providing great versatility. Terminal performance is not quite as good as buckshot at close range, but provides a vast improvement over most pistols. The ability to fire multiple rounds quickly with great control, and more easily deal with multiple threats at various ranges is a big plus. .223/5.56 will also penetrate all soft body armor level IIIA and below. There is a reason SWAT teams use M4 carbines for entry work and leave shotguns mostly for breaching duty.

The verdict:
Suspected subject in home: Secure family in bedroom, cover door with shotgun, call 911.

Riots, major disaster, possible mutiple subjects attempting to gain entry from outside: Grab carbine/spare mags and pistol/spare mags, 911 probably useless in scenarios 1, and 2. Defend home as needed.

spitfirejes
07-11-2012, 2:02 AM
I also noticed I put the wrong size the two lead balls are .44 cal .451". Still waiting to get my camera back so I can take a video of the results.

r8dr rider
07-11-2012, 3:23 PM
Anybody use Remington HD rounds. BB shot or 2x4?

dc2integra
07-11-2012, 4:51 PM
I use 00buck with a couple slugs on the side saddle just in case.

gun toting monkeyboy
07-19-2012, 11:31 AM
Do you mean Malay loads? Not Malaysian loads. Those were 28 pellets of #2 birdshot (not buckshot) and 4 pellets of size 0 buckshot. They worked ok, but they were mainly designed to cause injuries in jungle fighting. Not stop people DRT. Normally when fired through the window of a low-flying helicopter. They were more for keeping the insurgents heads down on the side of the helicopter that didn't have a door gunner.

-Mb