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View Full Version : I live California, buy shotgun online out of State?


Darto
07-01-2012, 4:48 AM
I live California, I have no FFL.

I'm trying to buy a modern used shotgun from a private party who is in NY State (he has no FFL either), can he himself....

1) ...ship it direct to my local FFL gunshop dealer here in California?

OR

2) does he have to instead first hand it over to an FFL holder in NY State and then have that FFL holder ship to my local FFL gunshop dealer here in California?

If it is number 2), then I will have to pay the guy in NY an extra fee of course...

Thanks!

Nodda Duma
07-01-2012, 5:23 AM
You'll need to identify a dealer on your end and ask what his preference is. Some accept shipments from individuals, some don't.

Good luck!
Jason

Quiet
07-01-2012, 5:41 AM
There are no laws that mandate the use of a FFL to ship a firearm.

Therefore, it is up to the individual FFL on if they accept shipments from a private party (non-FFL) or FFLs only.

So, in order to determine if the seller needs to ship through a FFL or if they can ship themselves, you need to find out from your CA FFL dealer on if they will accept a shipment from a private party or not.

Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese
07-01-2012, 5:59 AM
Good thing you wont have to pay for tax since its used but the FFL holder fee to do the transfer will add to the overall cost

Sticka
07-01-2012, 6:08 AM
Good thing you wont have to pay for tax since its used but the FFL holder fee to do the transfer will add to the overall cost

I went to 2 dealers yesterday and they both told me that for ANY gun that was shipped to them that they had to collect sales tax.
I was sure to double check with both and ask "Even if is a private party sale from out of state?"
and they both said "Yes, the only time that you do not have to pay it is if it is a PPT, that must be done in person at the shop".

Edit: We were talking handguns....I can't imagine that there is a tax difference between the 2 though....

Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese
07-01-2012, 7:18 AM
i think both party needs to be there to do a PPT

CK_32
07-01-2012, 7:21 AM
He can ship it to FLL. But most FFLs to CYA only accept transfers from FFL to FFL.

To be honest unless it's a one of a kind or your gettin it for $10 your probably better off waiting for a gun here already locally

Darto
07-01-2012, 7:44 AM
Yes pretty rare, expensive too, well at least it's under $1000.

Thanks, everyone, what I needed to know.

OTOH, California charges sales tax for USED guns that are bought OUT of State! Bring back Emperor Norton to replace what we have now lately :)

stockranger
07-01-2012, 10:35 AM
You should check on the tax thing and call around some more. I have purchased atleast 12 guns online new and used and NEVER paid sales tax. Techinicaly you are supposed to claim it on your income tax. However, I was working at a gun shop for about a month and the owner said the law changed and now they have to collect but I still don't believe him I think he is full of crap cuz it wasn't the only BS I heard him say.

Quiet
07-01-2012, 12:08 PM
You should check on the tax thing and call around some more. I have purchased atleast 12 guns online new and used and NEVER paid sales tax. Techinicaly you are supposed to claim it on your income tax. However, I was working at a gun shop for about a month and the owner said the law changed and now they have to collect but I still don't believe him I think he is full of crap cuz it wasn't the only BS I heard him say.

What changed is CA is going broke and the CA Franchise Tax Board is forcing dealers to collect taxes at the time of transfer.
Collect it or you pay for it on top of a fine for not collecting it.

aippi
07-01-2012, 12:14 PM
Anyone shipping a firearm into your state has to be approved by your DOJ and obtain an Approval letter. So I am not understanding how a private person can ship a firearm to one of your dealers. I had to get an account with your DOJ and have to go on line and obtain an approval letter for every weapon I send out there.

So how is it that you guys are telling the OP he can do this? How is it that you have dealers accepting weapons from people that are not CADOJ Approved? Am I missing something here?

elSquid
07-01-2012, 12:19 PM
Anyone shipping a firearm into your state has to be approved by your DOJ and obtain an Approval letter. So I am not understanding how a private person can ship a firearm to one of your dealers. I had to get an account with your DOJ and have to go on line and obtain an approval letter for every weapon I send out there.

CFLC only applies to FFLs.

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/cflcfaqs.php#2

I am not an FFL but I want to ship a firearm to a California FFL. Do I have to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number before shipping a firearm to California?

No. The requirement to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number only applies to holders of valid FFLs.



-- Michael

stockranger
07-01-2012, 12:25 PM
What changed is CA is going broke and the CA Franchise Tax Board is forcing dealers to collect taxes at the time of transfer.
Collect it or you pay for it on top of a fine for not collecting it.

So it is true! Crap, that makes an online purchase no cheaper now. Before you had to pay the transfer fee but if the gun was 500 or more your tax savings was enough to offset the transfer costs. Looks like the best way to go is a used gun off calguns now.

runway1
07-02-2012, 11:09 AM
I went to 2 dealers yesterday and they both told me that for ANY gun that was shipped to them that they had to collect sales tax.
I was sure to double check with both and ask "Even if is a private party sale from out of state?"
and they both said "Yes, the only time that you do not have to pay it is if it is a PPT, that must be done in person at the shop".

Edit: We were talking handguns....I can't imagine that there is a tax difference between the 2 though....

I just did that without CA sales tax. A colt .45 from MI. Need a copy of the seller's DL and a signed statement declaring "....this is a privaste sale...".

Some FFLs, I've noticed, just don't like this and do EVERYTHING as a CYA - just in case. I had one FFL tell me I can't do an SSE - it's against the law:confused:!

To me that's lazy, uninformed and poor service. Go somewhere else.

stkcode
07-02-2012, 11:19 AM
^^Agreed. I think the problem is that since there is no way to prove (or disprove) that the out of state seller is an individual (no FFL) and not a dealer/retailer, most FFL holders simply charge the tax to avoid the liabilities. Since it's the government, they make the claims (true or not) and you have to prove otherwise.

Do make sure that the firearm does comply this state's ridiculous gun laws (evil features), else I don't think the FFL here will be able to release the firearm to you until it is in compliance.

Darto
07-09-2012, 4:59 AM
Yeah I didn't pay sales tax on purchase, but when I go into pick it up at my local FFL, he says he will collect California sales tax on the amount I sent to the seller who lives in another State. The seller never sees, never handles the tax.

aippi
07-09-2012, 8:58 AM
CFLC only applies to FFLs.

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/cflcfaqs.php#2

I am not an FFL but I want to ship a firearm to a California FFL. Do I have to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number before shipping a firearm to California?

No. The requirement to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number only applies to holders of valid FFLs.



-- Michael

Thanks for clearing that up. So licensed dealers that have Federal Firearms licenses and have been completely vetted by the Federal Government have to also be approved by your DOJ but anyone else can send a firearm to your state without your DOJ approval. About what I would expect from a state that makes a guy wait 10 days to get a weapon even though he has 20 more at home. My heart goes out to any gun owner that has to put up with California's bull **** gun laws.

call-in
07-09-2012, 4:29 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. So licensed dealers that have Federal Firearms licenses and have been completely vetted by the Federal Government have to also be approved by your DOJ but anyone else can send a firearm to your state without your DOJ approval. About what I would expect from a state that makes a guy wait 10 days to get a weapon even though he has 20 more at home. My heart goes out to any gun owner that has to put up with California's bull **** gun laws.

Thanks for still selling to us. :thumbsup: :D

ke6guj
07-09-2012, 4:45 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. So licensed dealers that have Federal Firearms licenses and have been completely vetted by the Federal Government have to also be approved by your DOJ but anyone else can send a firearm to your state without your DOJ approval. About what I would expect from a state that makes a guy wait 10 days to get a weapon even though he has 20 more at home. My heart goes out to any gun owner that has to put up with California's bull **** gun laws.

remember that this law was allegedly written by a small group of CA FFLs to discourage out-of-state FFLs selling firearms to CA buyers and then just having tghe CA FFL do the transfer. It was written to reduce the number of outside sellers. They figured that the big distributors would be willing to deal iwth the CFLC crap to sell to the FFLs for inventory, but that your average gunbroker and internet FFL would not want to deal with more CA crap and just put "no CA sales" in their adds/auctions.

IIRC, CADOJ did not request this bill, it was that Association of FFLs that pushed it.

Basically Profits before Rights.