PDA

View Full Version : Good 9mm carbine?


Chameleon Loco
06-30-2012, 12:34 PM
SO my 18th birthday is coming up very shortly and I am interested in purchasing a 9mm carbine for plinking, maybe some hunting, and shtf. The reason I chose 9mm is because the cost of the ammo and how much of the stuff there is the US. There are many to choose from but I have narrowed my choice down to a few. The ones I am looking at are the hi point 995TS, the ruger pc9, the thueron defence carbine that uses glock magazines, and finally the masterpiece arms MPA9300SST. Owners of these firearms how do you like them and have you done any hunting with them and if so what did you hunt? Though some of the carbines I listed are more expensive than the other it's not a problem as I can just save up for a while because I am looking to get only one 9mm carbine.

luchador768
06-30-2012, 1:37 PM
I have a vector Uzi, it's heavy, has a horrible trigger, and odd-ball sights, but I love it! You need to feed it "hot" loads, 115gr plinking ammo doesn't cycle. I only run 124gr ammo and have almost zero issues. Tons of spare parts out there.

VegasND
06-30-2012, 2:23 PM
The Hi Point is the cheapest and is already limited to 10 round mags. Buy one and use the money saved to buy ammo.

Or use the money to start saving for your 21st birthday -- you'll need to buy a 1911 y'know.

donw
06-30-2012, 3:27 PM
the pc9 is an excellent choice IF you can find one...

accurate, reliable, easy to handle and will digest any ammo you feed it.

it also will utilize the ruger p-series pistol magazines.

i paid over $400.00 for mine when it was new (approximately 1999) i don't know what one would sell for now.

you will have to block the mag if you hunt big game with it; most states limit the number of rounds a semi can hold when hunting big game. you, more than likely, will get a lot of grief about "hunting" with a 9mm. but...within 100 yds, it will put the smack on game...smaller sized game, such as coyote, fox and even smaller deer and with the longer carbine tube, velocities will jump some over the usual pistol barrel lengths...Speer #12 manual lists a 100 grain JHP 9mm from a 4" tube as 1296 fps...(that IS a HOT/MAX load, though)...the pc9 has a 16" tube.

mine has a very good trigger...breaks clean at 6 lbs. (there is a man by the name of springfield who will work it over though.)

the standard iron sights are acceptable but you could replace them with aftermarket or install optics as it's equipped for them with rugers propietary optics mounting system.

don't expect it to be a 'tack driver'...it's designed as a companion weapon for LE to use in patrol cars. with some carefully selected handloading, and good optics, it probably could be, a near, tack driver. according to the designer: "It's a 60 yard gun"

i've never shot the hi-point but have looked at them...they seem quite durable and look as though they would be worth the $$$$

h0use
06-30-2012, 5:08 PM
i really like the 995ts. for the price and how well made it is. mine eats anything you feed it.

OIF0708
06-30-2012, 5:19 PM
i really like the 995ts. for the price and how well made it is. mine eats anything you feed it.

^^^this, plus American made, life time warranty.

bonesurf
06-30-2012, 5:43 PM
Pc9 IF you can find one is great but really hard to find and prices at climbing. I think someone posted one here a few months ago and it sold instantly for around 560(?)

995ts is REALLY hard to beat for the price. Readily available. Reliable. Simple. Pretty reasonably accurate. Love messing around with mine

Dark Sky Solutions
06-30-2012, 5:50 PM
Why has know body mentioned the Keltec Sub-2000?

Personally I would take a Keltec over a high point any day of the week.

jmust1991
06-30-2012, 5:59 PM
PC9 FTW....looked around for 18 months until one popped up, paid $600 OTD for it. The PC4 is more common,

kedenimar
06-30-2012, 6:01 PM
anyone with experience of the Lone Wolf 9 mm AR style carbine?
or is it not worth it because of the impending SB249 legislation?

robcoe
06-30-2012, 6:09 PM
PC9 or Camp9 if you can find one, otherwise I would say hi-point 995

I tried the Kel-tec, really didn't like it.

Never tried a 9mm AR conversion so can't speak to it.

bonesurf
06-30-2012, 6:15 PM
Kel tecs are harder to find than hi points and at least AFAIK no one raves about customer service like hi points with kel tec and the kel tecs are just as "plasticky".

AR platform 9mm is always kinda pricey....lone wolf upper alone is 650. Just saying.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

zfields
06-30-2012, 6:15 PM
If it doesnt take glock/berreta mags, I'd pass.

If your talking a shtf carbine, I'd want something where you an get some hicap rebuilds to keep around, not some goofy propriety mags.

Dark Sky Solutions
06-30-2012, 6:37 PM
If it doesnt take glock/berreta mags, I'd pass.

If your talking a shtf carbine, I'd want something where you an get some hicap rebuilds to keep around, not some goofy propriety mags.

The 9mm SUB-2000 can be configured in the following magazine types: GLK17, GLK19, S&W59, BERETTA92, SIG226.


I have read a few Keltec customer service reviews on CG and they have said it was great. Can't say for sure cause I just got my first Keltec.

TZL
06-30-2012, 6:41 PM
9mm ar15

Or mp5 clone like an ATI or cohaire

zfields
06-30-2012, 6:46 PM
The 9mm SUB-2000 can be configured in the following magazine types: GLK17, GLK19, S&W59, BERETTA92, SIG226.


I have read a few Keltec customer service reviews on CG and they have said it was great. Can't say for sure cause I just got my first Keltec.

I knew one of the fantastic plastic brands made a carbine that did.
Just wish it didnt look so goofy.

Marlin Camp 9. Check it out.

Would love to find one.


Im surprised no one is putting out a nicer looking carbine that takes glock mags. Something with the look of the ATI hipoint stock, but not with hipoint mags :confused:

Dark Sky Solutions
06-30-2012, 7:13 PM
Just wish it didnt look so goofy.


Yeah I am trying to get over the goofy look right now. I am thinking it is more of a utilitarian weapon than pretty. Looking into different accessories and options for it now.

Chameleon Loco
07-01-2012, 12:20 AM
I am adding it to my list in my search for a 9mm carbine. I think I am going to take off the hi point as the lack of high capacity rebuild kits is a big drawback. I also do not like that the magazines are unique to the firearm. My local range has a ruger pc9 for rent and since my family has a membership there I can rent guns for free. I will try one out next time I go shooting there. Because these carbines are a little on the expensive side for a teenager making minimum wage I think I will wait before purchasing one and further research which one I want.

tonelar
07-01-2012, 12:32 AM
The 9mm SUB-2000 can be configured in the following magazine types: GLK17, GLK19, S&W59, BERETTA92, SIG226.


I have read a few Keltec customer service reviews on CG and they have said it was great. Can't say for sure cause I just got my first Keltec.

The G19 mag doesn't reach far enough into the Sub2000 grip. So, unless your G19 mags are actually G17 length, ignore the G19 reference.

I have a featureless Vector and it's 100% with any 9mm I feed it. However, I'm running 25 and 32 IMI magazines.

CFV
07-01-2012, 2:44 AM
Is this the masterpiece arms one you are talking about.
http://http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1035.aspx

Interested in this one..... anyone have this or shot it?

Quiet
07-01-2012, 2:51 AM
The G19 mag doesn't reach far enough into the Sub2000 grip. So, unless your G19 mags are actually G17 length, ignore the G19 reference.

Kel-Tec does make a SUB2000 that had a shorter grip so that it could use Glock 19/23 magazines.

Im surprised no one is putting out a nicer looking carbine that takes glock mags.

Ruger PC9 with Glock magazine conversion. (wish it was mine)
http://www.upitall.com/Private/u/79/105/1262
These were being done between 2005-2007, stopped when the gunsmith (who use to work for Lone Wolf Distributors) doing the conversions retired.

Motor Man
07-01-2012, 4:43 AM
I'd recommend the Ruger PC9 or the Marlin Camp Carbine. The Marlin uses Smith and Wesson mags.

Oceanbob
07-01-2012, 5:05 AM
Marlin Camp 9. Check it out.

This^^^

I love my Camp 9. It runs SW model 59 mags, 10 rounds, 15 rounds, 20 rounds..etc..can by had at MIDWAYUSA....Very accurate and reliable. I also have an aftermarket laminated stock. I prefer the look and the red dot makes targeting instant.


In stock form:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2rzs8jk.jpg

Swapping the stock

http://i43.tinypic.com/2na8fok.jpg

I bought the bare stock from 'Boyds" for $75. A little hand sanding to get the fit, then 5 coats of clear outdoor poly from Home Depot sealed it up real good. The weapon is light weight, short and handy. With the 20 round magazine, red dot and hot hollow point ammo, she will take care of you.
If you find one, be sure to get the Wolff Spring kit (about $12) and the new recoil buffer from MIDWAYUSA. ($18) These buffers are good for 5,000 rounds. The CAMP 9 rifles are overbuilt and will run for years without trouble. Too bad Marlin quit making them...



http://i43.tinypic.com/k380sx.jpg

As for cost, I had two of them brand new in the box, sold one last month for $750. Kept the other one for my car SHTF weapon paired with my GLOCK 19 in 9MM. Here's the one I just sold to a Cal Gunner up north. (shipped it)

http://i48.tinypic.com/rib4f9.jpg

If you can find one...GRAB IT..! I love it when young people are interested in Guns and Shooting....welcome. You are the future, please stay. :D

PEZHEAD265
07-01-2012, 5:19 AM
I am adding it to my list in my search for a 9mm carbine. I think I am going to take off the hi point as the lack of high capacity rebuild kits is a big drawback. I also do not like that the magazines are unique to the firearm. My local range has a ruger pc9 for rent and since my family has a membership there I can rent guns for free. I will try one out next time I go shooting there. Because these carbines are a little on the expensive side for a teenager making minimum wage I think I will wait before purchasing one and further research which one I want.

The ruger pc9 is just so hard to find.You can have a fist full of dollars and you might not see one for years.People are just not selling them.They make 15 rd aftermarket kits that fits the Hi point and it also fits the 9mm pistol [only to be used out of state].I would look for a Camp 9 but they are kinda pricey 500+ but they use the S&W M59 mags and you have to make your own bullet button.The sub 2000 is also a good choice but it needs a butt pad to make it legal length[featur less or BB].Being under 21 it is going to be very hard for you to buy pistol ammo[esp. 9mm] because of the law.I would buy the Hi point and have fun and then save your money for better toys cause once you buy one gun you are going to buy more just like potato chips you can't just have one

compulsivegunbuyer
07-01-2012, 5:38 AM
I would look for a Camp 9 but they are kinda pricey 500+ but they use the S&W M59 mags and you have to make your own bullet button.

No BB needed for the Camp 9

Oceanbob
07-01-2012, 6:06 AM
No BB needed for the Camp 9

Correct..^^^^

No bullet button for the CAMP 9 or a Ruger Mini 14 for that matter...these are not classified as assault weapons.

Not enough prohibited 'features'.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

HOWEVER..put a folding stock on it or add a flash hider..etc..that will change the status.

ih8ca
07-01-2012, 6:22 AM
Camp 9 if you can find one.

h0use
07-01-2012, 6:38 AM
hipoint is coming out with a 15rd for there 995ts. not sure when thow. promag makes 15rd for them

PEZHEAD265
07-01-2012, 7:10 AM
My mistake on the camp 9 in my mind I pictured the mag well as a pistol grip.It's been awhile since I seen one.You guys are right it isn't even close after looking at pics.

plumbum
07-01-2012, 7:34 AM
Love my featureless Hi-Point 995 - and I have seen what a 147 gold dot does to a deer ;)

The factory even rebuilt it for me free of charge, now it looks new again.

Capybara
07-01-2012, 7:37 AM
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w489/capybara84/UziRFull.jpg

luchador768
07-01-2012, 7:41 AM
^^^I was waiting for you to join in!^^^

m35a2
07-01-2012, 7:44 AM
I'll cast another vote for the PC9 Ruger. Great toy, eats anything, accurate..I have a little red dot on mine..lightweight, no evil features, mags are readily available. Just keep you eyes on places like the classifieds here, GB, etc and you can find them.

zfields
07-01-2012, 7:59 AM
Would love to find a camp 9. Great looking guns.

MrNiceGuy
07-01-2012, 8:17 AM
http://www.justrightcarbines.com/

Make sure it's the "current gen" (so it doesn't jam).
Apparently they fixed the gremlins and now it's selling like hotcakes.....so much so they are back ordered now.

Capybara
07-01-2012, 8:51 AM
Luchador and I are the meager California Uzi club here although there are few others who come out of the woodwork as well.

^^^I was waiting for you to join in!^^^

jdogg2000
07-01-2012, 9:13 AM
I will go against the grain here and be the first to recommend the thureon carbine. Very rugged, reliable, accurate, easy to disassemble, takes AR accessories, uses glock mags, and comes from the factory with a bullet button. Not cheap though and there well be a wait if you order it direct. I'll be posting pictures and more of my thoughts on it later this week after i take it out one more time...

Dark Sky Solutions
07-01-2012, 10:27 AM
Luchador and I are the meager California Uzi club here although there are few others who come out of the woodwork as well.

Well maybe u can spread some light on these guys.

Masterpiece arms out of Florida makes a little "Uzi" style carbine I have been looking at. Anyone have any thoughts on their reliability?

Grumpyoldretiredcop
07-01-2012, 10:34 AM
The Just Right and Thureon carbines are looking pretty good, although the Just Right that I've handled isn't any less "plasticky" than my SUB2000. Really looking forward to someone local stocking the Thureon as it looks more substantial then the Just Right.

+1 on the idea of having a pistol caliber carbine use magazines that also fit a pistol that you use. BTW, the SUB2000 G17 grip can be easily cut down to fit the G19 magazines.

SDS-Ruger
07-01-2012, 10:42 AM
If you can find one a Ruger PC9 is great to have.

luchador768
07-01-2012, 10:42 AM
The Masterpiece guns are MAC 10-11 clones. I've read a lot of good things about them and almost picked one up. The Uzi appealed to me for the history, and ruggedness. It's built a lot like an AK. If you google Uzi spare parts there are a lot of sources out there, spare barrells are about $100, and parts kits run from $200-600. Mine is like Capy's, I just put a grip wrap and left the fixed folder.

jyo
07-01-2012, 10:48 AM
I have a real nice Marlin Camp 9 (the later one with checkered wood stock) fitted with some sort of red-dot sight (can't remember which brand)---I don't shoot it a lot so it sits in the back of the safe---I could probably sell it for say $600 with two S&W 12 shot "rebuild kit" magazines---I am in L.A.---any fees would be paid by you. If this interests you, PM me---thanks---jyo

B!ngo
07-01-2012, 11:41 AM
I tried to buy a Kel-Tec Sub-2K with Glock 9mm mags but they are near impossible to find. It led me to believe that Kel-Tec is actually just a marketing company (a la 'Big Dogs') and actually don't produce any guns at all.
Though I heard that the HiPoint carbine is actually a pretty good gun (unlike their handguns), I went with an ATI AT-94 which, though pricey, fulfilled my goal of having a roller-locked MP-5 at some point in my life. It is pretty magnificent.
B

Why has know body mentioned the Keltec Sub-2000?

Personally I would take a Keltec over a high point any day of the week.

bonesurf
07-01-2012, 12:03 PM
I went with an ATI AT-94 which, though pricey, fulfilled my goal of having a roller-locked MP-5 at some point in my life. It is pretty magnificent.
B

That's another gun that's hard to find. My understanding is that they aren't being brought into the US anymore

Quiet
07-01-2012, 12:12 PM
Would love to find a camp 9. Great looking guns.

Auction sites, have them in the $400-700 range depending on condition.

Marlin Camp 9 uses S&W M59 series magazines.

donw
07-01-2012, 12:32 PM
Why has know body mentioned the Keltec Sub-2000?

Personally I would take a Keltec over a high point any day of the week.

i "Think" the Kel-Tec sub-2000 is illegal here due to it's folded length...?

the High Points i've seen seem to be decent quality...considering cost...

Quiet
07-01-2012, 12:34 PM
i "Think" the Kel-Tec sub-2000 is illegal here due to it's folded length...?

Kel-Tec SUB2000 = pistol grip + overall length less than 30"

CA legal versions will add a butt stock extension & maglock + 10 round or less magazine or will add a butt stock extension & a grip fin.

Chameleon Loco
07-01-2012, 12:51 PM
Since these modifications are necessary to making the Kel Tec CA legal would the carbine still be able to fold up? :mad: that was a major selling point for me.

Oceanbob
07-01-2012, 12:57 PM
Since these modifications are necessary to making the Kel Tec CA legal would the carbine still be able to fold up? :mad: that was a major selling point for me.

No, not if the weapon can be fired in the short, folded condition. It would have to be permanently 'Pinned'. (open, unfolded) To reach 30 inches.

In free, normal States the Overall Length minimum is only 26 inches. :43:

carlosdarwin
07-01-2012, 12:59 PM
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

Dig this!

carlosdarwin
07-01-2012, 1:00 PM
I have the cheapy Hi-Point 9mm. Over 1000 rounds and never so much even as a cough. Very accurate as well...its one of my favorite guns ever.

Capybara
07-01-2012, 1:01 PM
The Masterpiece guns do look interesting to me, I saw a few at a gun shop I was at yesterday (Oak Tree). I think Atlantic sells them as well as a few of the other Internet gun dealers. I have never shot one though but I can tell you that the build quality and feel is going to be nothing like an Uzi, but they are a lot cheaper than an Uzi. Just depends on what is important to you. I like the Uzi simply because of the history, the build is outstanding on our Vectors and yes, they are like the AK-47 of subguns, tons of parts and accessories. They have ZERO recoil and are rugged and reliable.

The Masterpieces look okay but I wouldn't buy one without shooting one.

Squid
07-01-2012, 1:02 PM
one of those http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/10/endo-tactical-glock-ar-15-stock-adapter/

on it.

Actually, don't do that in CA or without paying the $200 "short barrel rifle" tax.

Too bad LoneWolf doesn't make a 16" drop in barrel.

Dark Sky Solutions
07-01-2012, 1:06 PM
They can be bought in California after the addition of a bullet button and a stock extension. The stock extension is available from Kel-tec and increase the OAL, but does not affect folded length.

Found this on another site. I always forget California citizens have to purchase all this stuff on their weapon before it comes out of jail. Not sure how much the mod would be. I guess I will have to go home and purchase one of these.

Dark Sky Solutions
07-01-2012, 1:08 PM
No, not if the weapon can be fired in the short, folded condition. It would have to be permanently 'Pinned'. (open, unfolded) To reach 30 inches.

In free, normal States the Overall Length minimum is only 26 inches. :43:

I haven't tried shooting the sub-2k yet but I am pretty sure u cannot fire it folded. When folded the barrel is completely deprecated from the breach except for the hinge it rotates on. So folded length is no big deal here in CA.

Squid
07-01-2012, 1:21 PM
What is the process and hoops to jump through?

Can you refer me to dealer(s) you used? I'm in SF bay area so hopefully near me.

Quiet
07-01-2012, 1:34 PM
Since these modifications are necessary to making the Kel Tec CA legal would the carbine still be able to fold up? :mad: that was a major selling point for me.

Yes, they can still fold in half for storage/transport.

CA legal Kel-Tec SUB-2000 (not mine)
http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab31/coqwren/SUB2000_2.jpg

Dark Sky Solutions
07-01-2012, 1:52 PM
What is the process and hoops to jump through?

Can you refer me to dealer(s) you used? I'm in SF bay area so hopefully near me.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=324728

I am sure there r more. This post is over 2 years old but I am not sure who else is doing this.

marklbucla
07-01-2012, 2:25 PM
The Ruger had a ridiculously heavy trigger. Anyone I handed it to for the first time thought the safety was on when the trigger was pulled. I also thought it was a bit on the heavy side and had more recoil than it ought to have.

donw
07-01-2012, 2:40 PM
The Ruger had a ridiculously heavy trigger. Anyone I handed it to for the first time thought the safety was on when the trigger was pulled. I also thought it was a bit on the heavy side and had more recoil than it ought to have.

i checked mine on a trigger pull scale: 6 lbs. there has been NO work done on it.

it breaks clean when pressed.

some of the later models may have had 'problems'.

it must be kept in mind, this carbine was designed for Law Enforcement, NOT as a hunting/target arm. as such, most LE agencies have a trigger pull requirement for all weapons, usually in the 4 lbs plus range.

IF you know what you are doing, you can stone and lube the trigger and reduce the poundage some...i do NOT recommend unless you know what you are doing, though. or...send it to Bill Springfield (I don't know his address, though)

i reduced the trigger pull on my AR by 1/2 lb simply by stoning smooth and lubing. i did NOT change any angles or surfaces...just smoothed them out.

luchador768
07-01-2012, 2:41 PM
^^ I had a PC4, it def had a "lawyer trigger.". I wish I still had it. The it was pretty accurate and very handy. I've always had a soft spot for pistol caliber carbines. I had a Camp 9 as well, sold it for around $250 15 years ago. That was a great gun as well.

Capybara
07-01-2012, 3:28 PM
Bill did my Uzi trigger, he took it from about 12lb and extremely rough to about 6 lbs and really quite smooth. Great guy http://www.triggerwork.net/

send it to Bill Springfield (I don't know his address, though)

MrNiceGuy
07-01-2012, 3:39 PM
If money is no object then go with Double Diamond Police Supply (http://www.shop.doublediamondsupply.com/main.sc) glock AR....shipping (back ordered) now.
You can use your own upper....or buy their super expensive 16" upper.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kpk102084/IMG_14385.jpg

Terol
07-02-2012, 12:10 PM
I bought a HiPoint 995TS for plinking and backup home defense. The price was right and even though we're restricted to 10rd mags I really like it. For extras, I bought the clip that holds two mags on the stock and a compensator. Removed the rear iron sight and added a red dot.
All in all, I think I have about $425 into it. With a lifetime warranty, it's hard to beat.

A-J
07-02-2012, 12:27 PM
Go with the HiPoint! Good quality made in the USA low cost reliable clean shooting gun.

jsipe007
07-02-2012, 12:38 PM
Are you limited to 9mm? Im a fan of the Beretta CX4... im not sure what caliburs it is chambered in however. I know its in .45 ACP but other than that I'm not sure. My buddy has one and it shoots nice...

Arnelcheeze
07-02-2012, 1:18 PM
Beretta CX4

chead
07-02-2012, 1:34 PM
Double Diamond Law Enforcement Supply Glock mag lower receiver (http://www.shop.doublediamondsupply.com/AR15-Glock-Mag-Lower-Receiver-DDARGL.htm). Not cheap, but DDLES makes really nice stuff.

edit: beaten :)