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baih777
06-26-2012, 5:07 PM
Does anybody have direct links to the ATF and Calif DOJ laws regarding the legal Penal codes or even scanned copies that we can print and carry with our 80% lowers.

Big enough response and maybe Calguns will make this into a sticky.

phrogg111
06-26-2012, 10:52 PM
An 80% lower is not a firearm yet.

No fire control group milled out, no receiver pin holes drilled, no trigger hole drilled, it's not a firearm.

It's legally a paperweight until you mill out all of those things yourself.

Once you have your completed unassembled lower, it's a firearm, but if YOU made it that way, and it's for YOUR personal use, you're not committing any crimes.

Police officers that arrest you for an illegal firearm when you can prove it's not illegal can get sued for a lot of money. And, for that matter, they probably should.

baih777
06-28-2012, 5:31 PM
a little more help

sharxbyte
06-28-2012, 6:08 PM
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

Thanks a TON for crediting me there with my research. It's always great when people know who ACTUALLY spent their time finding some useful information.

(copied from another thread)
_______________________________

1-6 defines a zip gun. "NOTE: Almost any homemade firearm can qualify as a zip gun." Really? That doesn't sound right either.

For this reason I ALWAYS have this (highlighted) with my 80%:
Original Document (http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf)





(A6) Does the GCA prohibit anyone
from making a handgun, shotgun
or rifle?

With certain exceptions a firearm
may be made by a nonlicensee provided
it is not for sale and the maker
is not prohibited from possessing
firearms. However, a person is prohibited
from assembling a nonsporting
semi-automatic rifle or nonsporting
shotgun from imported parts. In addition,
the making of an NFA firearm
requires a tax payment and approval
by ATF. An application to make a
machinegun will not be approved
unless documentation is submitted
showing that the firearm is being
made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C.
5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and
479.105]

Also keep a copy of the flowchart. Are they required? No. Do I want to keep my rifle and not have to deal with hefty legal fees to prove that its legal? Nope.


You shouldn't need any more info than that. It's perfectly fine to home build firearms as long as they were originally intended to be firearms, and you don't make them for sale. Modifying other objects to shoot bullets is where your issues come in, but if you manufacturer the receiver, (and milling an 80% is considered manufacturing by definition) then it ws obviously created with the intent of being a firearm. No serial number required, no manufacturer name required, no registration required. (unless of course you add it later after deciding to transfer it.)

baih777
07-10-2012, 4:36 AM
bump

Puckinhead
07-10-2012, 7:20 AM
What answer are you looking for?

CSACANNONEER
07-10-2012, 7:26 AM
Please provide a link showing that ATF and CA DOJ have published any info stating that a single shot shotgun is legal. Guess what? You're not going to find it. Laws typically tell you what is illegal not what is legal!

baih777
07-10-2012, 6:44 PM
What answer are you looking for?

just trying to gather as much info needed for others. this topic keeps coming up with a variety of answers. links to California penal code or scanned copies that people can carry with them.
there are ATF laws and them our California Penal Code.

if your at a range in LA County and the LAPD gun task force and see's your
80% lower, do you have proof that you made it. if the LAPD decides it needs to investigate the build of your weapon and impouds it for further investigation, how do you prove you built the weapon.
is it necessary to have it ingraved with your name and some type of serial number.
these are answers that i am looking for.
i am thinking now to keep all the receipts together for each 80% and AK that i build.

MiddleKingdom
07-11-2012, 12:33 AM
if your at a range in LA County and the LAPD gun task force and see's your
80% lower, do you have proof that you made it. if the LAPD decides it needs to investigate the build of your weapon and impouds it for further investigation, how do you prove you built the weapon.

I'm pretty sure that you don't have to prove that you built the rifle. The burden of proof that you "didn't" build it is on the authorities. If you're looking for something specifically written and issued by DOJ, forget it. I requested info from them regarding 80% builds and they told me they can't help me. They were quite unhelpful and most likely that won't change.

freonr22
07-11-2012, 12:40 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=86627