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View Full Version : What exempt a rifle from 922r?


nightwolf0215
06-26-2012, 4:15 AM
If i wantto build an ak with full matching foreignparts, what could i do to exempt it from 922r?

CSACANNONEER
06-26-2012, 5:02 AM
Change out parts that are not numbered.

PEZHEAD265
06-26-2012, 5:24 AM
The stock set ,trigger group and gas piston made by the US should get you legal.I don't advise using a US mag as parts because if you use a import mag by mistake you won't be 922r compliant.

CSACANNONEER
06-26-2012, 5:27 AM
The stock ,trigger group and gas piston made by the US should get you legal.I don't advise using a US mag as parts because if you use a import mag by mistake you won't be 922r compliant.

No, chances are that you would still have over 10 imported parts unless you are assuming that he would be using a US made barrel and reciever too.

PEZHEAD265
06-26-2012, 6:09 AM
The normal AK has about 16 imported parts on the list.
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGkkAAsulPgHsAGEBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NmVsOWl hBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWTAxMF83N A--/SIG=125h8jeg2/EXP=1340744320/**http%3a//home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html

The four off list that the AK is missing are trigger housing,sear,op rod and barrel ext.The AMD might have a barrel ext but part of the 16 is a muzzle device.The receiver is a given because they won't pass BAFT to get in the country now.

ClarenceBoddicker
06-26-2012, 6:29 AM
Use a pre 1989 George HW Bush import ban AK, as those are not subject to 922R, as they were imported before the 11/30/1990 effective date 922R went into effect.

You could also do it if you used a fixed 10 round magazine. Best to write ATF Firearms Tech Branch & get an approval letter from them if going that route.

You could build a pistol from a flat or new receiver & not have to worry about 922R, as it only covers long guns.

PEZHEAD265
06-26-2012, 7:02 AM
If i wantto build an ak with full matching foreignparts, what could i do to exempt it from 922r?

To be 922r exempt the rifle has to be in a sporting configuration.That means a fixed 10 rd mag, and no pistol grip,no folding butt stock,no bayo lug and no muzzle device or thread barrel.If it has any of these features it is no longer suited for sporting purposes.Read this.

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGkkKrvulPnngAxXlXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NmVsOWl hBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWTAxMF83N A--/SIG=125eqpf2o/EXP=1340747563/**http%3a//home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html

CSACANNONEER
06-26-2012, 7:05 AM
The normal AK has about 16 imported parts on the list.
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGkkAAsulPgHsAGEBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NmVsOWl hBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWTAxMF83N A--/SIG=125h8jeg2/EXP=1340744320/**http%3a//home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html

The four off list that the AK is missing are trigger housing,sear,op rod and barrel ext.The AMD might have a barrel ext but part of the 16 is a muzzle device.The receiver is a given because they won't pass BAFT to get in the country now.

You do realize that many of today's AKs are built on modified Saiga receivers which are still legally imported, right? So, no, the receiver is not a given.

PEZHEAD265
06-26-2012, 7:09 AM
Use a pre 1989 George HW Bush import ban AK, as those are not subject to 922R, as they were imported before the 11/30/1990 effective date 922R went into effect.

You could also do it if you used a fixed 10 round magazine. Best to write ATF Firearms Tech Branch & get an approval letter from them if going that route.

You could build a pistol from a flat or new receiver & not have to worry about 922R, as it only covers long guns.

He has to be careful that it's not on the CA AW list.If he had a preban AK wouldn't have to be a RAW??

CSACANNONEER
06-26-2012, 7:11 AM
He has to be careful that it's not on the CA AW list.If he had a preban AK wouldn't have to be a RAW??

No, some receivers never made the list.

PEZHEAD265
06-26-2012, 7:25 AM
You do realize that many of today's AKs are built on modified Saiga receivers which are still legally imported, right? So, no, the receiver is not a given.

You know what CSACANNONEER you know just enough to be dangerous.A Saiga has less imported parts then most AK'S.Why don't you read this link!!!

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGkkKrvulPnngAxXlXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NmVsOWl hBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWTAxMF83N A--/SIG=125eqpf2o/EXP=1340747563/**http%3a//home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html

Here is a quote
The 16 items marked with an asterisk are the parts that are generally found on a standard AK 47. The Saiga sporter rifle, as imported, does not have a muzzle device or pistol grip, so it has 14 countable parts. A Saiga shotgun has 13 countable parts (the trunnion is considered part of the receiver) - 14 if the barrel is threaded.

CSACANNONEER
06-26-2012, 7:51 AM
You know what CSACANNONEER you know just enough to be dangerous.A Saiga has less imported parts then most AK'S.Why don't you read this link!!!

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGkkKrvulPnngAxXlXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NmVsOWl hBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWTAxMF83N A--/SIG=125eqpf2o/EXP=1340747563/**http%3a//home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html

Here is a quote
The 16 items marked with an asterisk are the parts that are generally found on a standard AK 47. The Saiga sporter rifle, as imported, does not have a muzzle device or pistol grip, so it has 14 countable parts. A Saiga shotgun has 13 countable parts (the trunnion is considered part of the receiver) - 14 if the barrel is threaded.

You know, you might want to reread my post and try to understand it before you make a complete fool out of yourself. I could not care less how many imported parts a stock Saiga has. That has no bearing on modifying a Saiga receiver to build a traditional AK on it. Feel free to correct me anytime. Just don't show your ignorance and while trying to do so.

PEZHEAD265
06-26-2012, 9:22 AM
You know, you might want to reread my post and try to understand it before you make a complete fool out of yourself. I could not care less how many imported parts a stock Saiga has. That has no bearing on modifying a Saiga receiver to build a traditional AK on it. Feel free to correct me anytime. Just don't show your ignorance and while trying to do so.

It is not worth fighting with you about this all it is doing is building up your post count.If you add the 7 parts I said [3 trigger,3 peice stock set and the gas pistion] [US parts] to any AK the receiver and the barrel is a mute point.

CSACANNONEER
06-26-2012, 9:47 AM
My post count grew when I started hosting AK build parties. After 20 or so BPs, my post count is pretty big. But, post count means nothing to me. Quality over quantity is more important. Now, back to the topic at hand. You are correct about changing put seven parts but, the OP wants to be as Russian as possible so, I ignored the suggestion about US made furniture. I think that's where the confusion is coming from. BTW, how many BPs have you attended or hosted? How much time have you spent having FTF conversations with ATF regarding homebuilds and 922(r)? Personally, I can document at least 60 days of BPs and several conversations with ATF at SHOT Shows. That does not count the time spent studying on my own and networking with manufacturers at SHOT Shows for the last 8 years.

paul0660
06-26-2012, 9:53 AM
Since parts don't have to be marked with country of origin, and no paperwork is required to be kept by the owner of the rifle, AND there is no law against transferring a rifle that does not meet 922r..........

who cares.

PEZHEAD265
06-26-2012, 9:55 AM
The only true answers to the OP question is to be 922r EXEMPT is to build the rifle in a sporting confieration.By adding any other parts to make it 922 compliant, and being compliant is not being EXEMPT.The only other way to be EXEMPT is to get a pre ban 922r compliant rifle like ClarenceBoddicker said if they are CA legal.

paul0660
06-26-2012, 10:00 AM
The only other way to be EXEMPT is to get a pre ban 922r compliant rifle like ClarenceBoddicker said if they are CA legal.

Like I said a few minutes ago, there is no law against owning a non exempt firearm. 922r applies to manufacturing.

Usually the only people who get riled up about this are the companies that sell US parts. It does seem that build party folks should be careful, but even then the law does not provide for enforcement.

MrPlink
06-26-2012, 10:18 AM
Build an AK pistol or Aow.

PEZHEAD265
06-26-2012, 10:43 AM
[QUOTE=CSACANNONEER;8821386]My post count grew when I started hosting AK build parties. After 20 or so BPs, my post count is pretty big. But, post count means nothing to me. Quality over quantity is more important. Now, back to the topic at hand. You are correct about changing put seven parts but, the OP wants to be as Russian as possible so, I ignored the suggestion about US made furniture. I think that's where the confusion is coming from. BTW, how many BPs have you attended or hosted? How much time have you spent having FTF conversations with ATF regarding homebuilds and 922(r)? Personally, I can document at least 60 days of BPs and several conversations with ATF at SHOT Shows. That does not count the time spent studying on my own and networking with manufacturers at SHOT Shows for the last 8 years.[/QUOT

Are you making this crap up as you go.The OP doesn't say anthing about keeping it Russian he said "foreign parts"First off the SAIGA is already EXEMPT so to allow it to use Hicaps it needs a bullet guide,3 trigger parts and the gas tube to be 922r compliant.In CA you need a 10 rounder if you don't have any preban HC.The Saiga will be all orignal # done this way.If I was building a AK or any rifle for that fact I would want all the metal parts to be numbered before I would worry about the furniture.Never been to a build party but I converted a few rifles my self in the past.I also have a freind who is a type 7 FFL and he answers all of my questions.

ClarenceBoddicker
06-26-2012, 10:57 AM
The only true answers to the OP question is to be 922r EXEMPT is to build the rifle in a sporting confieration.By adding any other parts to make it 922 compliant, and being compliant is not being EXEMPT.The only other way to be EXEMPT is to get a pre ban 922r compliant rifle like ClarenceBoddicker said if they are CA legal.

You could have done that before the SB23 2000 effective date in CA. You can still do it now, but will have to live with a bullet button & 10 round mag. Do you know what type of AK you want? Not a whole lot got missed by the 1989 Roberti Roos AWB list.

nightwolf0215
06-26-2012, 1:57 PM
The only true answers to the OP question is to be 922r EXEMPT is to build the rifle in a sporting confieration.By adding any other parts to make it 922 compliant, and being compliant is not being EXEMPT.The only other way to be EXEMPT is to get a pre ban 922r compliant rifle like ClarenceBoddicker said if they are CA legal.

THis is what I am looking for. Certain rifles do not have US manufacture parts. Therefore, the only options would be to manufacture the parts myself through CNC or make it somehow exempted. What kind of rifle would be certified as sporting configuration rifle? No pistol stock? Flash hider? etc?

-hanko
06-26-2012, 4:27 PM
Since parts don't have to be marked with country of origin, and no paperwork is required to be kept by the owner of the rifle, AND there is no law against transferring a rifle that does not meet 922r..........

who cares.
Very true, I've found that out over a number of years with FAL's specifically.

It's been said, but I cannot verify, that there's never been an individual charged with a 922r violation. The original intent of 922r was to stop importation of "non-sporting" weapons, not to mention that the 2nd Amendment was in regard to them in the first place.:confused:

Obviously, calguns.net recommends you stay within the law.

-hanko

nightwolf0215
06-26-2012, 5:35 PM
Very true, I've found that out over a number of years with FAL's specifically.

It's been said, but I cannot verify, that there's never been an individual charged with a 922r violation. The original intent of 922r was to stop importation of "non-sporting" weapons, not to mention that the 2nd Amendment was in regard to them in the first place.:confused:

Obviously, calguns.net recommends you stay within the law.

-hanko

Im sure it isnt strictly enforced, but as with every aspect of the law, I prefer to be on the safe side. Usually you can make your own parts pretty good with a CNC machine. And getting furniture is usualy not very hard. :)

PEZHEAD265
06-26-2012, 5:36 PM
What kind of a rifle are you tring to build?Lets start with that if it is any of the AK kits there is all kind of US made parts for them.For foriegn rifle to be made exempt it has to have a 10 rd mag or less,no folding stock,no pistol grip,no bayo lug and no muzzle device or threaded barrel [sporting configuration]Now to build a foriegn rifle from a kit it can't have no more then 10 foriegn parts out of a list of 20 specific parts here is the info.
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdd4.VepP8V8A.LFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NmVsOWl hBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01TWTAxMF83N A--/SIG=125vdsf59/EXP=1340786110/**http%3a//home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html
If it has CA evil features it needs a bullet button.

nightwolf0215
06-26-2012, 6:08 PM
It is a Sturmgewehr PE-57. It shares a lot of internals with Sig AMT. But no one makes parts for these in the US. I just gotta make myself some haha.

ClarenceBoddicker
06-27-2012, 3:05 AM
DSA had some PE-57 parts kits years ago, but I don't remember if they included the DEMILLED receiver or trunnions. They also had 24 rd mags that were a bit pricey.

There may also be a Federal loophole in the made in USA part. There is something in the USC about taking a foreign made part & adding value to it by doing work on it. After a certain threshold is reached, it become a made in USA item.

-hanko
06-27-2012, 6:14 AM
DSA had some PE-57 parts kits years ago, but I don't remember if they included the DEMILLED receiver or trunnions. They also had 24 rd mags that were a bit pricey.

There may also be a Federal loophole in the made in USA part. There is something in the USC about taking a foreign made part & adding value to it by doing work on it. After a certain threshold is reached, it become a made in USA item.
Which is exactly what Dave did several years ago with FAL trigger group parts...claim was first that they were US-made, Mark Graham debunked that claim. Next story was that they were modified foreign parts, but web pics were no different before and after the mods.

I could stamp or engrave or laser mark the hammer, trigger, sear, and selector with "US"...bingo, I'm in business. IF prosecuted, it's up to the accuser to prove the parts were not US-made.

The law itself was intended to control importers, but it's enforced on the user level less than laws against spitting on the street.;)

I like to stay legal, but I would not worry about 922r at the individual user level.

hth

-hanko