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kgcabs
06-22-2012, 10:27 AM
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J. Harry Jones
5:06 p.m., June 21, 2012
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FOREST SERVICE SEEKS TO WIPE OUT FERAL PIGS
Officials plan to exterminate county's wild pigs
Hunting is first option for managing wild pigs
Fish & Game faces dilemma on pig plan
Hogs wild in backcountry

CLEVELAND NATIONAL FOREST — A plan to eradicate the feral pig population in the county’s backcountry, which could include using professional marksmen in low-flying helicopters, has been released by the federal government.

The “Feral Pig Damage Control Project Environmental Assessment,” prepared by the U.S. Forest Service, lists several options available to eliminate wild pigs that have been multiplying in the backcountry since the mid-2000s. Following a 30-day public comment period that will end July 18, officials will decide what alternative to move forward with.


A feral pig. — U.S. Forest Service
Authorities see the pigs as a threat to fragile ecosystems and public health and safety.

Environmentalists worry wild pigs are damaging the county’s sensitive habitat, much of it still recovering from the catastrophic wildfires of the past decade.

It’s been nearly six years since 30 to 40 domestically raised Russian pigs were reportedly released behind El Capitan Reservoir by a member of the Barona Band of Mission Indians who wanted to start a hunting program.

Officials estimate hundreds of pigs now live in the county’s mountains, stretching from near the U.S. Mexico border to Palomar Mountain in North County.

The government, at a potential cost of several million dollars, wants to kill all the pigs using a variety of methods including trapping, hunting by helicopter and ground hunting with dogs. The report lists several options. The U.S. Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management will make a decision later this year.

The project areas includes more than 600,000 acres, including a significant portion of central San Diego County and all three sections of the Cleveland National Forest. It also includes the uninhabited Capitan Grande Indian reservation, which is surrounded by forest land.

Three options are being considered.

The first is to do nothing, but that will lead to an increase in pigs and further damage to public lands.

The second is to attack the wild swine problem. The pig population would first be further inventoried so officials can figure out how many pigs exist and exactly where they are.

Cleveland National Forest spokesman Brian Harris said officials think the number of pigs is in the hundreds, but no one is sure.

“They’re most active at night,” he said. “They’re really hard to find.”

Then the pigs would be killed in a variety of ways. They could be trapped in cages and humanely killed. “Captured animals may be dispatched quickly by gunshot to the head,” the report says.

Hunting with helicopters would involve “professional marksman systematically covering the terrain with precision, low altitude flights and working through each drainage basin searching for pigs,” the report says. Most flights would occur in the mornings and evenings, when pigs are most active. Aerial hunting would be done in remote locations that are inaccessible by road. Buffer zones of a half-mile would be established around communities and residential areas to minimize noise.

Professional contract hunters with dogs would also be used. The dogs would be trained to bark and corner pigs, but trained not to attack them nor harass wildlife. Ground hunting could be assisted by helicopters that would lift the hunters and dogs into remote areas.

After areas have been cleared of feral pigs, they would be monitored for up to three years to ensure the swine have really been eliminated.

The third option is the same as the second, except helicopters would not be used for hunting.

“This alternative was developed in response to public comments from animal welfare advocates and recreational hunters that expressed concerns about aerial hunting of feral pigs,” the report notes.

A copy of the report can be found on the Cleveland National Forest Web site

Comments can be emailed to FeralPigComments@fs.fed.us until July 18.

Dark Sky Solutions
06-22-2012, 10:30 AM
Or they could just let us go out there with out purchasing pig tags and we would do it for free.

I am just saying...

Blitz
06-22-2012, 10:50 AM
So they are going to spend millions of dollars for this? Oh wow, this state has totally gone south... I wish I was in TX. :D

CessnaDriver
06-22-2012, 11:58 AM
So they are going to spend millions of dollars for this? Oh wow, this state has totally gone south... I wish I was in TX. :D


Don't you understand?

We have to pay state workers to go hunting!

I would just LOVE to see the salary's of some of the people that will get paid to go hunting.

Puckinhead
06-22-2012, 12:11 PM
[QUOTE=I would just LOVE to see the salary's of some of the people that will get paid to go hunting.[/QUOTE]

Not only the salary but fuel, dog food, new trucks, new rifles, ammunition ...... Everything paid for by the taxpayers.

dust feeder
06-22-2012, 1:12 PM
I'm just wondering were to send my resume for one of those jobs

Rusty_Buckhorn
06-22-2012, 1:19 PM
If you SoCal guys would quit screwing around internet hunting and go kill some hogs, we wouldn't have this problem :seeya:

devil83dog@hotmail.com
06-22-2012, 2:27 PM
Youre right Rusty, I have to quit screwing around north of me and start trying my luck down south

theseacow
06-22-2012, 2:39 PM
I guess the forest service didnt see this thread-
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=582464


The san diego pig was killed. You can call off the helicopter hunt.

Rusty_Buckhorn
06-22-2012, 2:44 PM
I guess the forest service didnt see this thread-
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=582464


The san diego pig was killed. You can call off the helicopter hunt.

:smilielol5:

sengk
06-22-2012, 2:58 PM
I guess the forest service didnt see this thread-
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=582464


The san diego pig was killed. You can call off the helicopter hunt.

He single-handedly saved the state millions. Give the man a medal. kgcabs has my vote for Governor. :King:

Deja-Vu
06-22-2012, 8:52 PM
Just let us hunt at night, let us use traps, let us do it for free and let the land owners shot them without a hunting license plus tags.

mquejr
06-22-2012, 9:00 PM
i'd do it for free. CGN group hunt???

zerohour714
06-22-2012, 10:25 PM
This sounds made up. I and many other hunters I have known have sought after these "hard to find" pigs, and they are exactly that (if they exist). Has anyone else seen these pigs???

stockranger
06-22-2012, 11:07 PM
If there are many pigs as they say it is too late. You can't stop them. Flying over and hunting is useless. You can't see through the canopy and thick chapparel. At best they could put a hurt on them. They are probably out there but just like the rest of their range killing them on public land is almost impossible cuz they go to the most remote spots miles from the roads. The rest go onto private lands. This area is a patchwork of private and public land. Since they can't kill them on the private land they will take refuge there and then spread onto public land every time there is enough rain for them to find standing water. This is going to be a huge waste of money when hunters would do it for free. Just like it is illegal to hunt lions with hounds in oregon, now they just hire professionals with hounds to do it!

Los
06-23-2012, 4:23 PM
I have been out for a few days looking and seen signs of them, but no actual pigs seen. Like said before, if they let us hunt at night and trap them hunters would do it for free. Ill link up the page for public comment when I get home, I have it saved on my laptop

tankerman
06-24-2012, 8:14 AM
This sounds made up. I and many other hunters I have known have sought after these "hard to find" pigs, and they are exactly that (if they exist). Has anyone else seen these pigs???

I guess you don't know much about hunting hogs on public land.



Too many people go 'hog hunting' on a ranch somewhere, then figure they're hog hunting 'pro's' because the shot a hog that was meandering around a pasture or some oaks waiting to be shot.


Want to find hogs on public land? First Identify a water source, then find the steepest hillside in the area (Barely can hold steep) with the heaviest impenetrable overhead brush in an area that provides afternoon shade during the heat of the day. Then go inside that heavy brush on that super steep hillside, see if you can get close enough to get the pigs......Have fun tearing your cloths, falling down, getting heat exhaustion etc.....You might even get charged, if you're lucky enough to get close to them.


If you're able to find an area where the hogs are living and they haven't been pressured by humans, you may on occasion catch one sneaking a drink of water in the mid-day, assuming the water isn't in the middle of the heavy brush too.

tankerman
06-24-2012, 8:15 AM
I have been out for a few days looking and seen signs of them, but no actual pigs seen. Like said before, if they let us hunt at night and trap them hunters would do it for free. Ill link up the page for public comment when I get home, I have it saved on my laptop

Or dogs.

kgcabs
06-24-2012, 2:23 PM
I guess you don't know much about hunting hogs on public land.



Too many people go 'hog hunting' on a ranch somewhere, then figure they're hog hunting 'pro's' because the shot a hog that was meandering around a pasture or some oaks waiting to be shot.


Want to find hogs on public land? First Identify a water source, then find the steepest hillside in the area (Barely can hold steep) with the heaviest impenetrable overhead brush in an area that provides afternoon shade during the heat of the day. Then go inside that heavy brush on that super steep hillside, see if you can get close enough to get the pigs......Have fun tearing
your cloths, falling down, getting heat exhaustion etc.....You might even get charged, if you're lucky enough to get close to them.


If you're able to find an area where the hogs are living and they haven't been pressured by humans, you may on occasion catch one sneaking a drink of
water in the mid-day, assuming the water isn't in the middle of the heavy brush too.

Yep

tbhracing
06-24-2012, 3:31 PM
Don't you understand?

We have to pay state workers to go hunting!

I would just LOVE to see the salary's of some of the people that will get paid to go hunting.

Ugh. Don't YOU understand that the program is a FEDERAL project? It's states right there in the first line of the article- Forest Service. Nothing to do with the state or state employees.

tbhracing
06-24-2012, 5:18 PM
I'm just wondering were to send my resume for one of those jobs

www.usajobs.gov

njineermike
06-24-2012, 5:44 PM
Or they could just let us go out there with out purchasing pig tags and we would do it for free.

I am just saying...

I've been trying to shoot one of those pigs for a while now. Since the state won't allow night-vision, and spot-lighting is almost completely banned, daytime hunting of an animal that is almost completely nocturnal due to the environment, combined with the fact that a lot of the area mentioned in the article is off-limits to hunting, and we peons being able to do it is just barely easier than time travel, but not by much. You're more likely to shoot a unicorn on public land.

Los
06-24-2012, 7:22 PM
Heres the page for the Cleveland national forest, their site is incredibly slow for me I cant even load it. Make sure you leave a comment that they need to not waste tax payer dollars and relax the laws for the general public hunters! Hell, they could even say they will pay $100 a hog and I bet those hogs will be gone in a month lol

http://www.fs.usda.gov/news/cleveland/news-events

Cheep
06-25-2012, 6:56 AM
Why don't we see/hear news stories about peoples land/ranch/farm getting trashed by these monsters??? I don't think there are but a few and they aren't being a problem or we would see stories in the media with interviews from people who have problems with them. Too much hype from agencies without a good basis.

njineermike
06-25-2012, 7:20 AM
I spent one morning on the phone with a wildlife biologist for fish and game discussing wild pigs in SD county after a few unsuccessful scouting trips to try and pinpoint locations. He was quite helpful and very well informed. He advised me to not waste my time unless I really loved hunting the absolute worst terrain the area had to offer. He pointed out that a lack of steady food combined with predators meant that the population was so small it didn't have any established areas and was completely random as to where they travelled. He did give me one tip that helped, and I followed it. I found exactly one juvenile pig track. One. Not a single pig's trail. One footprint. The only area I was able to legally access, and I found a single track on the egress to a neighboring cattle farm. Several trips after, nothing. Not a single track. No torn up ground. No trails. No prints. There is a running water source that they supposedly frequent, but to Darwin have no idea where they drink from it.

He biologist told me the pigs on public land are mostly just food for mountain lions and bobcats. I think he's right.

CessnaDriver
06-25-2012, 8:18 AM
I spent one morning on the phone with a wildlife biologist for fish and game discussing wild pigs in SD county after a few unsuccessful scouting trips to try and pinpoint locations. He was quite helpful and very well informed. He advised me to not waste my time unless I really loved hunting the absolute worst terrain the area had to offer. He pointed out that a lack of steady food combined with predators meant that the population was so small it didn't have any established areas and was completely random as to where they travelled. He did give me one tip that helped, and I followed it. I found exactly one juvenile pig track. One. Not a single pig's trail. One footprint. The only area I was able to legally access, and I found a single track on the egress to a neighboring cattle farm. Several trips after, nothing. Not a single track. No torn up ground. No trails. No prints. There is a running water source that they supposedly frequent, but to Darwin have no idea where they drink from it.

He biologist told me the pigs on public land are mostly just food for mountain lions and bobcats. I think he's right.

Which begs the question..


Why is the state wanting to send in expensive helicopter fleets and spend bunches of money on a non-problem?

Blitz
06-25-2012, 9:12 AM
Which begs the question..


Why is the state wanting to send in expensive helicopter fleets and spend bunches of money on a non-problem?

It's a fat sum of easy money. The question is who get's it?

180ls1
06-25-2012, 9:24 AM
It's a fat sum of easy money. The question is who get's it?

Yeah, it pretty much who wants to look like the are doing a lot of new work without doing work.

Untamed1972
06-25-2012, 9:36 AM
He biologist told me the pigs on public land are mostly just food for mountain lions and bobcats. I think he's right.

That is the conclusion me and my dad (retired biologist) came too. Terrain and availablity of water keeps them confined, and the predators have a field day with them. I'm sure snatchin' little piglets is easy pickin' for the Mtn Lions and Yotes.

We did find signs of rooting in a couple of areas, but it wasn't fresh by a long shot.

njineermike
06-25-2012, 9:42 AM
The question is; Why is the state not allowing hunting access to areas the pigs ARE at? Everyone's agrees (including rabid anti-hunting activists) that the pigs destroy the locality they are in. Local farms won't allow you to hunt the property they own even to the point they will complaint to the state about the damage, but we can't hunt. Here are state lands the pigs are on we could easily cull from, but once again, no hunting. Tribal lands have the same problem. The landowners won't do it, won't let us do it, but want taxpayers money to do it.


And we wonder why this state is in a downward spiral. Back east they'd have let you come kill pigs for free as long as you didn't damage the property and left them some meat. Here they want to trap them in a silk lined container with organic fair-trade bait, pay a veterinanrian to spay or neuter them in the religious method of the pigs choice, then release them on a feral pig refuge being fed fresh organic fair trade fruits and vegetables.

ewarmour
06-25-2012, 9:51 AM
Ridiculous waste of tax dollars.

devil83dog@hotmail.com
06-25-2012, 10:04 AM
They state should just give a few willing hunters a helicopter ride into the backcountry where hogs hold most of their numbers, instead of paying professional hunters. There you go, state just has to pay for fuel for the helicopters.

Rusty_Buckhorn
06-25-2012, 11:43 AM
Which begs the question..
Why is the state wanting to send in expensive helicopter fleets and spend bunches of money on a non-problem?

no facts to verify, but I have to think this opens CA up to some sort of federal funding, some of which, I'm sure, will be earmarked for someones pet project studying the effects that the short eared red bellied desert mouse is having on pets in the San Diego area :facepalm:

Untamed1972
06-25-2012, 1:14 PM
They state should just give a few willing hunters a helicopter ride into the backcountry where hogs hold most of their numbers, instead of paying professional hunters. There you go, state just has to pay for fuel for the helicopters.


Or better yet auction of some special "airlift pig hunt tags" and MAKE some money on it, instead of spending money on it. You know guys would pony up some bucks for that.

I've wondered why someone...like a licensed hunting guide.....doesn't organize a hunt and hire a helicopter to drop you in. a few hours of helo time for drop off and pick up wouldn't cost that much. Then you'd have the helo to sling load your kills for you too.

kylemurdoc
06-25-2012, 1:17 PM
+1 I don't know how you found that pig.

He single-handedly saved the state millions. Give the man a medal. kgcabs has my vote for Governor. :King:

tbhracing
06-25-2012, 1:38 PM
The question is; Why is the state not allowing hunting access to areas the pigs ARE at? Everyone's agrees (including rabid anti-hunting activists) that the pigs destroy the locality they are in. Local farms won't allow you to hunt the property they own even to the point they will complaint to the state about the damage, but we can't hunt. Here are state lands the pigs are on we could easily cull from, but once again, no hunting. Tribal lands have the same problem. The landowners won't do it, won't let us do it, but want taxpayers money to do it. Did you not read the article? IT'S FEDERAL LAND, the state has nothing to do with the situation.


And we wonder why this state is in a downward spiral. Back east they'd have let you come kill pigs for free as long as you didn't damage the property and left them some meat. Here they want to trap them in a silk lined container with organic fair-trade bait, pay a veterinanrian to spay or neuter them in the religious method of the pigs choice, then release them on a feral pig refuge being fed fresh organic fair trade fruits and vegetables.
Again, not a state issue. It's FEDERAL LAND, so the state is not involved.

tbhracing
06-25-2012, 1:40 PM
They state should just give a few willing hunters a helicopter ride into the backcountry where hogs hold most of their numbers, instead of paying professional hunters. There you go, state just has to pay for fuel for the helicopters.It's NOT a state issue. The pigs are on FEDERAL LAND, not state land.

devil83dog@hotmail.com
06-25-2012, 1:44 PM
ok, let the Federal Government offer something like Untamed1972 had meantioned, good idea dude

Untamed1972
06-25-2012, 3:25 PM
It's NOT a state issue. The pigs are on FEDERAL LAND, not state land.

Yea....we get that.....but the hunting regs that prevent CA hunters from employing more effective means are dictated by the state. So the Feds could tell you to do whatever....but if it violates Ca DFG regs then you're "hogtied" pardon the pun.

Untamed1972
06-25-2012, 3:29 PM
ok, let the Federal Government offer something like Untamed1972 had meantioned, good idea dude

Yuh know....there even isn't really anything preventing a group of guys just hiring a chopper to airlift them in. Drop you & gear off for a couple days and come back and get you later. Split between say 3 guys, a total of 3-4 hours of helo time wouldn't be that expensive.

Get a helo out of Gilespie field, any of the San Diego River drainage stuff is just a few minutes flight time away.

njineermike
06-25-2012, 3:33 PM
Did you not read the article? IT'S FEDERAL LAND, the state has nothing to do with the situation.



Again, not a state issue. It's FEDERAL LAND, so the state is not involved.

Evidently reading comprehension is a lost art. I pointed out the land where the pigs are in high populations is prohibited to hunting. Never said state or federal, just prohibited to hunt. The state/municipal lands in SD county are almost all prohibited from all forms of hunting, including archery. The private lands in SD county want $500 a gun to kill and take a pig, if they even allow it at all. The tribe prohibits hunting except for a chosen few. If the state and localities would open hunting, there would fewer pigs on the federal land, which is often adjacent to the state/municipal land.

Almost ALL the federal land is open to hunting, but they don't have the pigs in enough quantities to warrant any of us spending too much time on the hunt with little chance of success, and several parcels of the land are isolated and the state or localities prevent access to hunters via those lands by prohiting the possession of firearms in those locations, by private landowners who do not allow access through their private property to those lands to hunters, or are against hunting in general despite the damage the pigs do, so they will not allow hunting on their land no matter what.

devil83dog@hotmail.com
06-25-2012, 4:22 PM
^+1 im in!

devil83dog@hotmail.com
06-25-2012, 4:24 PM
^ I was referring to 3 or 4 guys renting a chopper to hunt

stockranger
06-25-2012, 7:05 PM
Yea....we get that.....but the hunting regs that prevent CA hunters from employing more effective means are dictated by the state. So the Feds could tell you to do whatever....but if it violates Ca DFG regs then you're "hogtied" pardon the pun.


There are only 2 laws that could make it easier. Night hunting and trapping. Its open year round with unlimited take and you can use hounds on them so long as it is not deer season. What more do you want? Really populated area with private land mixed in the NF for night hunting as almost no one is going to pack into the remote areas but rather hunt near roads. Trapping would be cool but that isn't hunting and kind of sounds boring and crappy to me.

Horses would be the best way to access the back country if you don't have a personal helicopter. Plus it won't scare them off when you land. With some hounds and a horse you might actually get one.

Oh sorry I see the part where the highest numbers of pigs are on state land closed to hunting not the NF. When I been in this area there are just sooooo many people, not just houses, but the subaru tree huggers hiking with kids. Certainly safety is part of the issue to hunting? Like I said before. Because of the private lands this is not going to be possible. Even a couple hogs holding out on private land and they will spread again. If you do a lot of reading about this the word is hogs have made it all the way up to right behind lake elsinore, or maybe its another population. I have a hard time believing they are not on the NF land. Trust me, the biologist and rangers generally don't like hunters. I would not expect any of them to give you the truth or tell you any info aside from common knowledge you can get off the net or newspaper.

njineermike
06-25-2012, 9:52 PM
The biologist I spoke with was actually very helpful. Told me exactly where the range was, estimated population, everything. Turns out this one was also a hunter, and wants the feral pigs eliminated if possible. I enter in right where he told me to, walked a couple of miles in (and it was a ROUGH hike) and you could see game trails, but the ground is so rocky and dry finding a track for what game was on it was almost impossible. I didn't find a real pig track until I found wet ground near the local farm. He was right. It's rough hunting and they are scarce.

tbhracing
06-25-2012, 10:23 PM
I assume trapping them would be ideal like on the "Hog Hunters" show?