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Munny$hot
06-21-2012, 11:57 AM
Well sort of..... There has been a lot of questions asked who exactly supplies/makes PSA's parts, so I'm listing what I believe is correct. A lot of comparison has been done with known parts markings, machine techniques, and designs. The bolt/carrier and hammer forged barrels have been confirmed by PSA. Although PSA is a parts assembler like almost all of the AR companies including the so called "Top Tiered" group. From the list you'll find high quality manufactures that PSA uses/may have used in the past.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/

Bolt/Carriers: Tool Craft (military contracted) Confirmed by PSA (http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=2&f=301&t=193464) http://www.toolcraftinc.com/

Lower parts kits: L.W. Schneider (military contracted) http://www.lwschneider.com/
See post 16: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-566740.html
LPK info originally from here: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=71064

Hammer forged 4150 1/7 barrels: FN (military contracted) (confirmed by PSA): http://www.fnmfg.com/capabilities/Gun%20Barrels/

Chrome moly 4150 1/7 barrels: Now also made by FN (stated on PSA's spec of the barrel/upper)

PSA's barrels definitely not DPMS confirmed by PSA post #16 lol http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=586274

Forged lowers: Forging? machined by Aero Precision Inc sorry no web site

Forged Uppers: Anchor Harvey Aluminum Forging/splintered A (used by Colt etc) more than likely machined by Aero Precision http://www.anchorharvey.com/?gclid=CPnu-8CK4LACFQxshwodCUrq1A

P-Tac: uppers, LPKs, BCGs, parts kit (Practical Tactical) not affiliated with PSA, but PSA is the only direct vendor of their parts.

PSA Fredom: uppers (PSA lower end/budget parts) No specs at this time

h0use
06-21-2012, 12:01 PM
good stuff!

artoaster
06-21-2012, 2:00 PM
PSA is a great company and they've been kicking butt of late with all the demand in this election cycle and zombie hysteria

:13:

Brown Rock
06-21-2012, 2:38 PM
FN makes the PSA bolts?

SNCaliber
06-21-2012, 2:40 PM
nice thanks for the info!

SparkYZ
06-21-2012, 3:24 PM
This is a relief as i just bought a PSA complete rifle. I guess everyone's recommendations were with good reason

roushstage2
06-21-2012, 5:00 PM
The chrome moly barrels are confirmed by PSA to be Wilson Arms. The answer is in their subsection somewhere.
Cliff notes: Someone asked who made them, I said I think it is Wilson Arms, PSA said yes.

I remember seeing something about the LPKs too, though, not on Calguns.

Dreaded Claymore
06-21-2012, 5:11 PM
Thank the Gods. The price for my upper half was so low, I was afraid it was made in a sweatshop by poor Malaysian children. Except for my hammer-forged barrel which of course is made by FN.

Munny$hot
06-21-2012, 5:51 PM
The chrome moly barrels are confirmed by PSA to be Wilson Arms. The answer is in their subsection somewhere.
Cliff notes: Someone asked who made them, I said I think it is Wilson Arms, PSA said yes.

I remember seeing something about the LPKs too, though, not on Calguns.

Awesome, Ill update this post...

I found this on the LPKs: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-566740.html

Metal Magic
06-21-2012, 6:29 PM
Interesting info, I would be curious to see a comparison between suppliers from PSA, BCM, and Spikes.

freonr22
06-21-2012, 7:12 PM
Haha bcm won't say ..

new1911
06-21-2012, 8:44 PM
thank you!

guitar-nut
06-21-2012, 9:09 PM
Sweet! Thanks for the info. This post probably scored another customer for PSA. With such quality manufacturers, I think I'll skip BCM and go with PSA. You just saved me about $400.

Dan000
06-21-2012, 9:11 PM
Excellent post. Love my PSA barreled upper!

Ronco
06-21-2012, 9:18 PM
And a summer special... free shipping on everything!

OC_Gunner
06-21-2012, 9:28 PM
There was a post a week or so ago about PSA poorly packaging items for shipment. I have to say the last box I got from them was packed very well. New loyal customer.

roushstage2
06-21-2012, 9:33 PM
Awesome, Ill update this post...

I found this on the LPKs: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-566740.html
I guess it was here. I thought I remembered Chaos posting something about the LPKs.

Here's the thread about the Wilson barrels: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=500644

I give kudos to PSA for actually stating what parts they use instead of saying "we won't tell you what you are paying for."

Palmetto State Armory
06-22-2012, 6:27 AM
We can't/won't disclose who makes our components for us (unless otherwise noted on product description).

With that being said, all of our components are made for us in the U.S. by American workers. Our products come with a lifetime warranty against defects. If you encounter a problem all you need to do is contact our CS dept. and we will take care of the rest.

C4iGrant
06-22-2012, 7:46 AM
Haha bcm won't say ..

Correct. When you are trying to build a brand name for yourself, you don't list where parts come from.

With that said, BCM has lots of things made for them (not just buying off the shelf product).



C4

Steve G
06-22-2012, 8:24 AM
My new M4 PSA upper is awesome. Fast shipment, for the quality you can't beat the $299 price.

Brown Rock
06-22-2012, 10:12 AM
You know, I wish I had know about PSA before I bought my BCM upper 2 years ago. My BCM upper is awesome but it did cost me. PSA looks to be the same quality as BCM but at a cheaper price.

msand951
06-22-2012, 10:29 AM
Cool , I got the PSA FN mid length upper. For my aero lower with PSA lpk. For my build . So I guess I have a complete PSA rifle thanks for the info.

So far Im very happy with my build its functions awesome and I shoot wolf ammo most of the time . And I get trigger happy with my featureless build and standard size mags. And no problem yet. Mine was packed very well.

gmcal
06-22-2012, 12:20 PM
You know, I wish I had know about PSA before I bought my BCM upper 2 years ago. My BCM upper is awesome but it did cost me. PSA looks to be the same quality as BCM but at a cheaper price.

I don't think PSA was selling rifles/uppers 2 years ago. I know they weren't when I bought my BCM. At the time BCM was what I considered the best value. Now, IMO, it's PSA, which is why I bought my wife's rifle from them.

mreed
06-22-2012, 12:24 PM
You know, I wish I had know about PSA before I bought my BCM upper 2 years ago. My BCM upper is awesome but it did cost me. PSA looks to be the same quality as BCM but at a cheaper price.

amen. but i dont really regret my BCM upper either, it is a very nice quality upper and ive been happy with it, but yes it was a pretty penny.

AJAX22
06-22-2012, 12:30 PM
I'm curious as to who makes their buffers

Akers
06-22-2012, 12:32 PM
I can tell you I have a lot of AR's, and a majority are PSA because of their quality.

Chaos47
06-22-2012, 1:03 PM
I did not do the leg work the LPKs.

I got the information from here:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=71064

But I did confirm that parts of my LPKs do have the boxed S for L.W. Schneider.
On page 2 PSA says that they do not rebag someone elses LPK that they assemble it themselves. So maybe it should be noted that the FCG is L.W. Schneider?

I did find the part that the the new ALG Geissele triggers have the same boxed S marks. Showing that these are high quality parts...


Whoever makes the rest of the parts of the LPK does a good job, they are top notch.

FourLoko
06-22-2012, 1:35 PM
loving the "inside" info

really considering an upper from them

Strykeback
06-22-2012, 2:18 PM
Im researching building a first AR so this is good info. Plus free shipping and no tax! Though i ordered some defensive ammo from them and it took over a week for them to finally ship the order...

Dreaded Claymore
06-22-2012, 2:44 PM
We can't/won't disclose who makes our components for us (unless otherwise noted on product description).

With that being said, all of our components are made for us in the U.S. by American workers. Our products come with a lifetime warranty against defects. If you encounter a problem all you need to do is contact our CS dept. and we will take care of the rest.

Good to know, especially these days.

MrPlink
06-22-2012, 2:49 PM
Except for my hammer-forged barrel which of course is made by FN.

by a sweatshop run by Malaysian children in Herstal ;)

daking
06-22-2012, 2:57 PM
I have an all PSA rifle. Didn't plan it that way but they were able to deliver when others weren't. Hammer forged 16" midi. I've been really happy with it.

guitar-nut
06-22-2012, 9:37 PM
by a sweatshop run by Malaysian children in Herstal ;)

Having a job while young builds character ;)

DannyInSoCal
06-22-2012, 9:47 PM
PSA is GTG -

Who gives a crap where their supplies come from -

And what kind of nerdjerk needs to post the info...?

smittty
06-22-2012, 10:31 PM
Companies change suppliers so don't bank on anything you read here but I agree with the above post, why post such a topic? How would you like it if someone did something similar about you or your company?

Munny$hot
06-23-2012, 12:01 AM
On page 2 PSA says that they do not rebag someone elses LPK that they assemble it themselves. So maybe it should be noted that the FCG is L.W. Schneider?

Chaos47, Thanks for the update. In the beginning PSA stated their LPKs where US made by a Mil-Spec company that supplied parts to big name manufactures such as FN, S&W etc and the finish work was done by PSA near/or at their location. The [S] markings on the hammer is enough to lean towards the info being correct, but with PSA taking the SOP "We can't deny or acknowledge anything" stance it the best we got. Although it is possible that PSA does buy separate parts from different manufactures and/or buys all the parts in bulk from a single manufacture while they assemble the pieces together themselves into kits is very likely.

Thanks for everyone input/help in getting things sorted out. Now to start concocting my PSA Kool-Aide which will propel PSA to the top of the "AR Tier" Soon a large horde of loyal following will start to form, who will upon a whim internet bully and lay down a key board smackdown to anyone who favors a different companies product. PSA's new company slogan "Build a top notch quality rig and still have enough munny to shoot the dang thing":mnl:

roushstage2
06-23-2012, 12:30 AM
Now to start concocting my PSA Kool-Aide which will propel PSA to the top of the "AR Tier" Soon a large horde of loyal following will start to form, who will upon a whim internet bully and lay down a key board smackdown to anyone who favors a different companies product. PSA's new company slogan "Build a top notch quality rig and still have enough munny to shoot the dang thing":mnl:

Don't do that! The uppers won't be that cheap then :p

freonr22
06-23-2012, 1:01 AM
Re HVAC carrier trane York all have the different mfg labels on components. Ie robertshaw gas valve. Icm control board. Lau blower. Fasco inducer motor. Ge or a.o. smith motor. Really what difference. Does it make? Inquiring minds wanna know? Why hide suppliers? Really? Why is the arms industry special?

Munny$hot
06-23-2012, 9:06 AM
PSA is GTG -

Who gives a crap where their supplies come from -

And what kind of nerdjerk needs to post the info...?

Who gives a crap? Anyone who want to make an informed decision, is going to invest a significant amount of money into a rifle and wants to get a quality build that rivals or equals some of the bigger names in AR companies.

Who needs/why is this info posted. If you read the first sentence it clearly states "well sort of" which is safe to assume may or may not be correct. The only vendors are verified are the ones PSA has confirmed.

PSA's stance hasn't changed on disclosing their vendors which they have a valid reason. By posting this thread is no disrespect to PSA in anyway and from the reply post I'm confident PSA will have a lot more business generated from it. If at anytime PSA wants me to take down this post I have because it hurts their reputation/sales I'll be more than happy to do so.

Chaos47
06-23-2012, 10:04 AM
I don't see why the post should be taken down. But that is cool that you will if PSA wants it to.

None of this information is new it can all be gleamed from a couple google searches. But it is cool to have it all in one place.

So far all their suppliers are top notch, if anything this gives them a good foundation. To build upon their already great reputation.

technique
06-23-2012, 11:52 AM
That wasn't common knowledge? LOL
I read the header of this thread in the lame Murray show voice...

"DNA test results revealed!!! Who's the baby daddy?"

N00bs be funny sometimes.

timmahhhh
08-26-2013, 7:44 PM
I almost bought one of their 6.8 spc II uppers today for 319, but they confirmed that the barrel is not FN. It does not look like the description of the Wilson barrels.

Does anyone have any idea who the new supplier is and when did they switch? They were rather mum today...

I want to buy the upper, but somehow it seems like a much poorer deal when you no longer get that FN barrel.

ParanoidCivilian
08-26-2013, 7:47 PM
I almost bought one of their 6.8 spc II uppers today for 319, but they confirmed that the barrel is not FN. It does not look like the description of the Wilson barrels.

Does anyone have any idea who the new supplier is and when did they switch? They were rather mum today...

I want to buy the upper, but somehow it seems like a much poorer deal when you no longer get that FN barrel.

Save your money, Ammo is a dollar a round or more.

Johnny_Utah
08-26-2013, 7:59 PM
PSA lowers are machined by Aero....which make sense although there is no hard evidence? You can pick up an Aero stripped lower right now for 99 bucks. I had not heard of the company before, but picked up one nonetheless. If PSA uses them, that's a +1 for me:)

Rumor I heard was that Aero made Spike's lowers as well (at one time), and possibly Armalite.

MrPlink
08-26-2013, 8:08 PM
Holy necrotic thread revival batman!

Johnny_Utah
08-26-2013, 8:11 PM
Holy necrotic thread revival batman!

I have NO idea how that happened! I was reading one thread and posted in another one....wow. I haven't been drinking either?!

timmahhhh
08-26-2013, 8:11 PM
Save your money, Ammo is a dollar a round or more.

If I only use it for a deer or hog the ammo price wouldn't be that bad. Still thinking I might wait and pay 80 bucks more for the chf version.

OUTLAW414
08-26-2013, 8:37 PM
...

B!ngo
08-26-2013, 8:43 PM
This may be good news, with big name or positive reputation suppliers contracting to make parts for them.
But the first thing I thought of was some time ago when United Airlines advertised that they exclusively serve Starbuck's coffee on their flights. I'm sure it's true but it tastes horrible. If Starbuck's served that stuff in their shops, they would be out of business within the week.
Only saying that name alone does not suffice to guarantee quality.
B

SonofWWIIDI
08-26-2013, 8:47 PM
Makes me even happier that I recently bought one of their uppers.

Thanks for the info!

:)

Danomite556
08-26-2013, 8:51 PM
Good info

kkp
08-26-2013, 8:59 PM
Of course, suppliers can and do change...

Hope the OP keeps this thread up to date! :)

SOAR79
08-26-2013, 9:04 PM
good info here, i've been spending a lot of $$$ with PSA, looks like I've been getting good stuff

Munny$hot
08-26-2013, 9:24 PM
Of course, suppliers can and do change...

Hope the OP keeps this thread up to date! :)

If I Palmetto confirms it I'll update this thread..

BajaJames83
08-26-2013, 9:33 PM
Well sounds like they put out good stuff.

PhillyGunner
08-26-2013, 9:57 PM
Hmmm. I just spent the week trying to figure out why my newest PSA upper doesn't fit on the two stripped lowers I got from them a few months ago.

In their defense, customer service did finally offer to "fix" it... but I'm pretty surprised that it was 0 for 2 (and the rear take down pin hole is already a little "oval like", like it may have been "fixed" before.

BTW, I thought they were still using the FN barrels in all the CMV CL "Premium" Uppers, as well as the cold hammer forged uppers.

Oh, well. If it shoots straight, how do you beat the cost?

Palmetto State Armory
08-27-2013, 11:01 AM
We won't be confirming or denying any of the speculation in this thread.

If the manufacturer of the product isn't listed in the description of the item then it is likely proprietary information.

proraptor
08-27-2013, 11:07 AM
I just dont understand why palmetto wouldnt state where they are getting their stuff unless they are getting it from crap companies. Is it a contractual thing? If I was in their position id would let everyone know all the awesome parts we sell and where we get them. Hiding that info is just too much like the govt. Wheres snowden when you need him

timmahhhh
08-27-2013, 11:25 AM
We won't be confirming or denying any of the speculation in this thread.

If the manufacturer of the product isn't listed in the description of the item then it is likely proprietary information.

I was told yesterday by your employee that the barrel in that 6.8 upper was not FN, so that is not speculation.

It seems that you guys nurtured the FN buzz, and then quietly brought in the new suppliers. Since some of the barrels are still advertised as FN, and I like to know what I am buying, I will wait until those are advertised and pay a little more to get one.

From now on, unless it is specifically advertised as an FN barrel in the product description, DO NOT ASSUME THAT YOU ARE GETTING THE FN BARREL, because you are not.

Chaos47
08-27-2013, 11:48 AM
I just dont understand why palmetto wouldnt state where they are getting their stuff unless they are getting it from crap companies. Is it a contractual thing? If I was in their position id would let everyone know all the awesome parts we sell and where we get them. Hiding that info is just too much like the govt. Wheres snowden when you need him

Its an industry standard. Go ask BCM who they get their parts from you will hear the same story.

THT
08-27-2013, 12:53 PM
I just dont understand why palmetto wouldnt state where they are getting their stuff unless they are getting it from crap companies. Is it a contractual thing? If I was in their position id would let everyone know all the awesome parts we sell and where we get them. Hiding that info is just too much like the govt. Wheres snowden when you need him

We don't disclose our sources because we don't want competitors sending them orders and lengthening our lead times.

SOAR79
08-27-2013, 3:22 PM
We don't disclose our sources because we don't want competitors sending them orders and lengthening our lead times.

good thinking lol

Big Ragu
08-27-2013, 4:03 PM
Several months back I purchased a PSA lower parts kit minus FCG. Mated up with an ALG ACT trigger and it is gtg. All parts fit nicely in the lower.

xmikex
08-27-2013, 4:39 PM
Now Psa just needs to start shipping there items out in a reasonable time and they would be golden. Still don't see why it takes them so long when other companies who are in the business and are dealing with the "panic" can get their gear out WAY faster and answer emails

But I have two Psa stripped lowers and a lpk in te way from them. All seems like good stuff

Mossy Man
08-27-2013, 4:54 PM
other companies probably don't have the sales volume of PSA

now, DSA......they have no reason to be slow.

snorky
08-27-2013, 5:02 PM
Interesting... This has definitely changed my opinion of PSA.

TNP'R
08-27-2013, 5:02 PM
I don't know how their service is with ordering parts but ordering ammo from them takes forever. It took them 2 weeks to send me some ammo. If I order from a place like midwayusa I usually get my ammo within 5 days.

Chaos47
08-27-2013, 5:02 PM
Now Psa just needs to start shipping there items out in a reasonable time and they would be golden. Still don't see why it takes them so long when other companies who are in the business and are dealing with the "panic" can get their gear out WAY faster and answer emails

But I have two Psa stripped lowers and a lpk in te way from them. All seems like good stuff

http://blog.kineticdata.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/good-cheap-fast-sign.jpg

xmikex
08-27-2013, 5:35 PM
im sorry even if PSA is doing tons of orders they need to hire more people to help fill those orders or something. it should not take a week to ship a LPK matter of fact unless they are making each upper on when they get the order they still shouldnt take that long. it is not hard to print out a label and drop some stuff in a box.

i have ordered stuff from primary arms, BCM, cabelas, and midway and i have had everything shipped out within two days MAYBE three. and im sorry but cabelas is a hell of a lot bigger then psa. since they are so big they staff accordingly. ever since i started looking into building an AR psa has been super slow. parts are in stock now and a lot easier to get so its not due to the "panic".

i ordered my lpk from them last tuesday and i still have not received anything about it being shipped. i ordered about ten items from bcm including an upper and it was shipped a day after i placed the order and will arrive thursday.

plus there quality control is not that great ya they have good customer service because they have too, if they didnt it would be horrible to order from them. the first time i ordered something from them they forgot two to three items out of my order. people act like they have great customer service because they correct something that should of been done right the first place. ya people make mistakes but i hear ALL the time that PSA messed up someones order or didnt include something when they shipped.

psa might be a good company quality wise in parts and products but their crappy shipping and long wait times kill it for me.

railgunner
08-27-2013, 5:54 PM
Been buying from PSA for years and they are great. I recommend them.

ChrisBrooklyn
08-27-2013, 6:07 PM
We don't disclose our sources because we don't want competitors sending them orders and lengthening our lead times.

and your sources have no sales staff? i would assume they had people calling every prospective client and shopping their wares..

THT
08-27-2013, 7:50 PM
and your sources have no sales staff? i would assume they had people calling every prospective client and shopping their wares..

Yes but why help them along? You would be surprised at the limited sales abilities of some machine shops. Some run just one person and even then, sales is a part time gig as they also have to manage workflow or receiving or whatever other department they're also responsible for.

ohlone
08-27-2013, 8:48 PM
psa may need to upgrade their shipping system, twice already that i received shipping notice emails two days after i received the items, but they are good company though, good products

Munny$hot
08-27-2013, 9:37 PM
Cheap prices for top quality stuff is worth the wait instead of over paying by hundred of dollars....

Palmetto State Armory
08-28-2013, 6:37 AM
It seems that you guys nurtured the FN buzz, and then quietly brought in the new suppliers.

We had other barrel suppliers before we offered FN barrels.

CWDraco
08-28-2013, 6:11 PM
Got a LPK,
packaging was great.

Everything was solid, heavy steel, installed in minutes. Grip was very easy to install, didnt have to spread the ears around and over the Lower. Bolt was a hex head.

Disconnector seemed very heavier then others, spring was green flare was good.

Hammer and Trigger pins went in very easy, which I am not sure if I like, but that's probably due to the age of my lower which has been around for a long time.

Bolt release pin tapped in very easy.

CWDraco
08-28-2013, 6:11 PM
Got a LPK,
packaging was great.

Everything was solid, heavy steel, installed in minutes. Grip was very easy to install, didnt have to spread the ears around and over the Lower. Bolt was a hex head.

Disconnector seemed very heavier then others, spring was green flare was good.

Hammer and Trigger pins went in very easy, which I am not sure if I like, but that's probably due to the age of my lower which has been around for a long time.

Bolt release pin tapped in very easy.

freonr22
09-02-2013, 6:57 PM
Its an industry standard. Go ask BCM who they get their parts from you will hear the same story.

which is utter garbage why is is such a secret maybe delton makes some parts?

Teeko
01-07-2014, 8:35 PM
kind late to the party but this makes me feel alot better about my PSA built rifle :clap:

missiontrails
01-07-2014, 8:54 PM
Now let's get BCM to step up to the plate and reveal their contractors....... And see if their stuff is worth twice the price (referring to COMPLETE uppers).

Elwood_Blues
01-07-2014, 9:11 PM
Now let's get BCM to step up to the plate and reveal their contractors....... And see if their stuff is worth twice the price (referring to COMPLETE uppers).

Don't upset BCM fanbois now :eek:

And yes, I do know this thread was started one and a half years ago. I was actually quite surprised to see it surface back up

timmahhhh
01-08-2014, 5:19 AM
Doood, BCM is twice as good because they cost twice as much... Simple math... Any real operator knows that.

Epaphroditus
01-08-2014, 7:54 AM
I won't tell you my suppliers either. I also won't tell you the extent of modifications, adjustments, fitting, polishing or other refinements that are made to otherwise 'stock' parts, materials or assemblies or the extent of an even more rigorous QA/QC inspections or functional tests or the corresponding yield which all add to costs.

Of course there are those that just break down the bulk packaging and repackage individually for resale but they generally don't last or are found out in fairly short order.

Anyplace I ever worked at either already did similar 'value added' work or soon did (under my direction).

hirohawa
01-24-2014, 9:29 PM
Thanks for the info.

Have bought a ton of stuff from PSA now am extra glad that I did.

RichardBay
01-25-2014, 3:18 AM
Aero precision, has some great videos on you tube they make great uppers and lowers. And thanks to psa my lower build kit fit perfect. it took a while to show up, but it showed up. My complete upper has still not shipped but I'm sure it will.
My first AR ever and only about 450.

RichardBay
01-25-2014, 3:19 AM
Yahooooooo thanks PSA!!!

CK_32
01-25-2014, 7:55 AM
I'm still not buying it... They cut costs some where that's what I want to know.


PSA didn't find the magic pixie dust to undercut all other MFG with the same specs and still stay in the black. I've been a machinist and worked in business too long to know better.

They are cutting costs some where that's what I want to know is where and how before I fully jump on the PSA boat.


And before someone says it no it's not JUST the name. Run or help run a business or do financials for a bit. You'll be shocked how quick your material numbers run up before you just mark up for profit. Especially for a machine/parts shop.

BB-Stacker
01-25-2014, 8:05 AM
We can't/won't disclose who makes our components for us (unless otherwise noted on product description).

With that being said, all of our components are made for us in the U.S. by American workers. Our products come with a lifetime warranty against defects. If you encounter a problem all you need to do is contact our CS dept. and we will take care of the rest.

You sir, have just claimed a new customer! Great products with great pricing. Now where's my wallet. . .

ItsDoug420
01-25-2014, 9:09 AM
I'm still not buying it... They cut costs some where that's what I want to know.


PSA didn't find the magic pixie dust to undercut all other MFG with the same specs and still stay in the black. I've been a machinist and worked in business too long to know better.

They are cutting costs some where that's what I want to know is where and how before I fully jump on the PSA boat.


And before someone says it no it's not JUST the name. Run or help run a business or do financials for a bit. You'll be shocked how quick your material numbers run up before you just mark up for profit. Especially for a machine/parts shop.

Maybe other companies are just ripping you off that badly? Seeing as how FN is located extremely close, the savings on shipping have got to be significant. Since the lowers and uppers are made by Aero, the only real place they could be cutting corners is with the bcg's, and lower/upper parts kits. They make their money by selling in bulk, it's not a new business concept. They might have to sell 3 uppers to make the same profit that bcm does on one. But judging by threads on here, it seems to be working well.

If it's not just the name, how does BCM justify selling their parkerized bcg with the same specs as many other offerings for $50+ more than everybody else?

220
01-25-2014, 9:15 AM
I'm still not buying it... They cut costs some where that's what I want to know.


PSA didn't find the magic pixie dust to undercut all other MFG with the same specs and still stay in the black. I've been a machinist and worked in business too long to know better.

They are cutting costs some where that's what I want to know is where and how before I fully jump on the PSA boat.


And before someone says it no it's not JUST the name. Run or help run a business or do financials for a bit. You'll be shocked how quick your material numbers run up before you just mark up for profit. Especially for a machine/parts shop.


They only employ one person to handle the entire shipping department.

ItsDoug420
01-25-2014, 9:18 AM
They only employ one person to handle the entire shipping department.

Also a good point, they keep their staff budget extremely tight.

scobun
01-25-2014, 9:26 AM
There is little chance the supplier list is still up to date. I've bought a lot of their LPKs, and they are not always sourced from the same folks.

stryper
01-25-2014, 9:33 AM
Owning a retail business for several years taught me about how to purchase inventory and how to sell it. It takes several years to establish yourself within the community you operate in and if you stick to the basics, (low overhead, good product/pricing and being able to operate at slim profit margins), eventually you will build a customer base who consistently return to purchase items. As you grow your profits, you will have more buying power in order to purchase your inventory at a lower cost. Even though you still sell at the same prices you were before, your profits have increased. This cycle keeps repeating. Growing customer base, more profits, more buying power.

I believe this is the business model PSA has followed. I feel the main reason PSA customers were waiting so long for their rifles or parts to arrive is that PSA had kept their company as small as possible (employees, warehousing) for too long. Their customer base and demand for their product simply outgrew them. Realizing that if they didn't grow, PSA would start to lose their customer base so they built a huge warehouse and hired more employees to keep their customers happy. The cycle keeps repeating, their profits keep growing.

What PSA never did was change their product or business model. Their product has always been consistent so no need to "cut corners". Yes, there have been some broke/bent pieces or an error in the shipment, but in any business, there will be mistakes. During the recent gun craze where the prices shot up like a rocket, PSA didn't gouge like other companies did. Their prices went up slightly but I'm sure that was due to their suppliers raising theirs.

In short, who ever runs PSA knows how to run a business. They started small, stayed small as long as they could, kept their overhead low, offered a quality and affordable product by keeping prices low and passed on savings to their customers. They never got greedy. Result- happy customers who tell their friends and keep spending with them.

As far as parts coming from the same manufacturer and different companies just putting their name on it, I'm sure companies like BCM probably require those manufacturers to adhere to tighter tolerances and quality control resulting in a better product but also costing more to produce.

MNhillbilly
01-25-2014, 5:02 PM
PSA has always been good to me in regards to CS and everything I have got from them parts wise has been good quality. Great up and coming company IMO.

dtrump
01-25-2014, 6:34 PM
Im so sick of people implying psa is junk. Especially when they list bcm as top tier. They use the same barrels. Sure some components are different. But 579 for a flat top upper, Machine rifled fn m4 profile barrel, fsp no bcg or handguards. How is that so much better? Its way overpriced. Just bothers me.

guitar-nut
01-26-2014, 2:18 AM
Im so sick of people implying psa is junk. Especially when they list bcm as top tier. They use the same barrels. Sure some components are different. But 579 for a flat top upper, Machine rifled fn m4 profile barrel, fsp no bcg or handguards. How is that so much better? Its way overpriced. Just bothers me.

Nowhere has BCM said they use FN barrels. They may, or may not. Also, we as consumers have no idea if FN has different barrels they sell to different manufacturers at different prices. While it could very well be the same, there are a lot of variables involved.

jb octane
01-26-2014, 2:33 AM
Nowhere has BCM said they use FN barrels. They may, or may not. Also, we as consumers have no idea if FN has different barrels they sell to different manufacturers at different prices. While it could very well be the same, there are a lot of variables involved.

With that (correct) logic...dtrump is not incorrect by thinking people shouldn't both praise BCM and belittle PSA.

6point9
01-26-2014, 10:05 AM
Don't really have a dog in this fight as I am a fanboy of neither but people need to realize there's way more to this than just the suppliers. Even if both BCM, PSA or whoever else sources their parts from the same company that does not mean the quality is anywhere near the same. Companies specify what they want and how they want it and will pay more for that product.

Companies who also demand a quality product will spend more time with QC once they receive the product to ensure that it meets their standards. You also have to factor in how well the product is assembled and again checked for quality prior to being shipped.

IMO the last part is where PSA falls short. I'm not sure if they deal with so much volume that they have to cut corners with their QC to meet the demand or what but we can all see that there are tons of complaints about quality control in missing parts, improperly assembled uppers, etc., on various forums online. Sure, you may pay more for say a BCM or DD upper but it seems apparent that your odds of receiving properly assembled, test fired and working upper are higher than PSA. And that is where companies like BCM, DD, Colt, Noveske, etc., excel.

Epaphroditus
01-26-2014, 5:31 PM
About business models ... some folks are content with covering their costs and keeping their employees busy with decent pay and benefits. Some folks are very concerned with growth and that can get rough very quickly.

Sometimes low and slow growth is a really good thing.

tipper
01-26-2014, 5:40 PM
can you say drop ship

dtrump
01-26-2014, 6:09 PM
Yes I knkw they themselves have not but from what I have read from owners they are fn barrels. I am not the first to say this on calguns by any means.

connorr931
01-26-2014, 7:18 PM
Yes I knkw they themselves have not but from what I have read from owners they are fn barrels. I am not the first to say this on calguns by any means.

No BCM owner (that I know of) has the capability to say that their barrels are FN produced. BCM does not disclose its suppliers.

DavidRSA
01-26-2014, 7:56 PM
Thanks for posting. I;ve always wondered about this. Took two brand new PSA builds one a 16" and one a 20" to the range today for the first time and they worked like a charm. (Only problem with the FSB on the 20" seems to be out of whack but not a PSA problem since I had it removed for a free float nm sleeve install.

5.56Geo
01-27-2014, 5:40 AM
IMO the last part is where PSA falls short. I'm not sure if they deal with so much volume that they have to cut corners with their QC to meet the demand or what but we can all see that there are tons of complaints about quality control in missing parts, improperly assembled uppers, etc., on various forums online. Sure, you may pay more for say a BCM or DD upper but it seems apparent that your odds of receiving properly assembled, test fired and working upper are higher than PSA. And that is where companies like BCM, DD, Colt, Noveske, etc., excel.

I believe they put out more product than most others. Using the laws of averages twice the product twice the possibilities of having errors/ making mistakes in product shipping and product assembly.

Yea, at times there may be product assembly issues or shorted orders but at the end of the day once that has been fixed the components are TOP tier and work well, even the PTac line works well. That's my $0.02 FWIW.

...now as far as the QC the Palmetto upper box I received had a QC sticker with (4) four inspector initials signed with a ballpoint pen. It looks like they are taking steps to fix any QC issues that may have had.

Teeko
01-27-2014, 6:53 AM
This makes me feel better about using PSA parts

Palmetto State Armory
01-27-2014, 6:58 AM
I'm still not buying it... They cut costs some where that's what I want to know.


That's a bold statement to make without a shred of evidence.

bollero
01-27-2014, 8:27 AM
tag for the future

h0use
01-27-2014, 8:59 AM
I have been using psa stuff for some time and have never had anything go wrong! I think there stuff is GTG!

Shmitty619
01-27-2014, 9:06 AM
I've purchased quite a bit from PSA. no probs here. I wish they would ship a little faster but other than that my stuff has always arrived in mint condition and ready for action.

peter95
01-27-2014, 9:52 AM
PSA is great... If you have the time...

5.56Geo
01-27-2014, 10:04 AM
PSA is great... If you have the time...

Yea, I ordered an upper on Jan 1st and received it on the Jan 23rd, within the three weeks promised.

...I guess there will always be people that want it a few days after they place their order. Almost all other companies are about 8-12 working day behind on shipping.

klewan
01-27-2014, 10:06 AM
Threads like this demonstrate how little actual difference there is between US made rifles. Shoot 1000+ rounds and all of them go bang. How to differentiate between them? You can argue about where they get their parts, since almost all the vendors are just assembling the guns. And they do.

I'd sure like to see the QC fixtures at the assembly point. The one they can put the upper receiver in and measure all the critical dimensions to .001". Or do the same with the trigger parts, or the barrel, or that most important part; the detent spring...Some people have way to much of their ego wrapped up in what they own.

BruinGuy
01-27-2014, 11:22 AM
Some people have way to much of their ego wrapped up in what they own.

QFT!

hatidua
01-27-2014, 11:36 AM
If it's not just the name, how does BCM justify selling their parkerized bcg with the same specs as many other offerings for $50+ more than everybody else?

Well, for starters, I've never seen a BCM gas key that wasn't staked. I bought one PSA BCG and nobody had taken the trouble to do so. If you can't stake a simple gas key, what else is being skipped?

5.56Geo
01-27-2014, 12:02 PM
Well, for starters, I've never seen a BCM gas key that wasn't staked. I bought one PSA BCG and nobody had taken the trouble to do so. If you can't stake a simple gas key, what else is being skipped?

I have seen a gas block on a BCM come loose.:43:

6point9
01-27-2014, 12:06 PM
I believe they put out more product than most others. Using the laws of averages twice the product twice the possibilities of having errors/ making mistakes in product shipping and product assembly.

Yea, at times there may be product assembly issues or shorted orders but at the end of the day once that has been fixed the components are TOP tier and work well, even the PTac line works well. That's my $0.02 FWIW.

...now as far as the QC the Palmetto upper box I received had a QC sticker with (4) four inspector initials signed with a ballpoint pen. It looks like they are taking steps to fix any QC issues that may have had.

I guess that's the bigger problem then. Perhaps they should have focused more on QC vs volume (though it seems like they're starting that now)? I'd rather buy from the company who takes the time to make sure I get what I'm supposed to get and that it works as it's supposed to than one who's simply trying to make a buck. Don't get me wrong, I personally have no issues with PSA as I've ordered plenty from them before. I purchased one of their complete uppers right as the scare shortage had started and got a good deal on it even though I had to wait. It came within 4 weeks but by then I had found a stellar deal on a BCM EAG upper and bought that while waiting. I eventually sold the PSA upper after deciding that I didn't need a spare but it seemed solid.

Either way, PSA has earned the rep they made through both the good products they put out at some great prices but also the poor QC they've shown over the last two years or so. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but it seems that if they were to just tighten up the ship some they'd get rid of the image of being a lower end brand to some and move up the ranks. It's not like BCM, DD and all of those companies started with a great reputation. They simply put out good quality products and built their reputation that way.

5.56Geo
01-27-2014, 12:22 PM
I guess that's the bigger problem then. Perhaps they should have focused more on QC vs volume (though it seems like they're starting that now)? I'd rather buy from the company who takes the time to make sure I get what I'm supposed to get and that it works as it's supposed to than one who's simply trying to make a buck. Don't get me wrong, I personally have no issues with PSA as I've ordered plenty from them before. I purchased one of their complete uppers right as the scare shortage had started and got a good deal on it even though I had to wait. It came within 4 weeks but by then I had found a stellar deal on a BCM EAG upper and bought that while waiting. I eventually sold the PSA upper after deciding that I didn't need a spare but it seemed solid.

Either way, PSA has earned the rep they made through both the good products they put out at some great prices but also the poor QC they've shown over the last two years or so. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but it seems that if they were to just tighten up the ship some they'd get rid of the image of being a lower end brand to some and move up the ranks. It's not like BCM, DD and all of those companies started with a great reputation. They simply put out good quality products and built their reputation that way.

The only way to find out which company has more QC problems is to see their order shipped to order error ratio. If PSA ships 2000 packages a day and has two mistake it would be the same as company X shipping 1000 packages and having one mistake.

The odds are better that PSA will not mess up your order, you may have to wait a few extra days but PSA is a solid company with good product and low prices which is worth the wait for many.

LBDamned
01-27-2014, 12:47 PM
I'm still not buying it... They cut costs some where that's what I want to know.


PSA didn't find the magic pixie dust to undercut all other MFG with the same specs and still stay in the black. I've been a machinist and worked in business too long to know better.

They are cutting costs some where that's what I want to know is where and how before I fully jump on the PSA boat.


And before someone says it no it's not JUST the name. Run or help run a business or do financials for a bit. You'll be shocked how quick your material numbers run up before you just mark up for profit. Especially for a machine/parts shop.

sometimes it's not what you know, it's who you know... maybe they have connections? (and yes, there is a significant savings in product costs when you have connections).

zfields
01-27-2014, 12:50 PM
sometimes it's not what you know, it's who you know... maybe they have connections? (and yes, there is a significant savings in product costs when you have connections).

Not to mention using local suppliers. Lower/no cost on shipping major/large components saves a TON of money.

LBDamned
01-27-2014, 12:54 PM
...now as far as the QC the Palmetto upper box I received had a QC sticker with (4) four inspector initials signed with a ballpoint pen. It looks like they are taking steps to fix any QC issues that may have had.

they started doing the quad check sticker thing quite a while back... I was happy to see that in place... I've ordered many, many, items from PSA and since the checks & balances sticker, I haven't had an issue.

Red Horn
01-27-2014, 1:31 PM
they started doing the quad check sticker thing quite a while back... I was happy to see that in place... I've ordered many, many, items from PSA and since the checks & balances sticker, I haven't had an issue. Sounds like they had some issues with accuracy of items ordered getting shipped correctly. Most posts seem to indicate not recent issues. I'm eager and excited to build my first AR and their name came up as recommended way more often than other suppliers in a thread I started looking for help / advice. I plan to check them first for sourcing my parts and now feel confident in having satisfactory results based off what has been posted in here of recent.

LBDamned
01-27-2014, 1:49 PM
Sounds like they had some issues with accuracy of items ordered getting shipped correctly. Most posts seem to indicate not recent issues. I'm eager and excited to build my first AR and their name came up as recommended way more often than other suppliers in a thread I started looking for help / advice. I plan to check them first for sourcing my parts and now feel confident in having satisfactory results based off what has been posted in here of recent.

yep, but it's been many, many months since I've had any shipping problems it's gotten much better...

FWIW, the shipping mistakes weren't always "missing" items... I actually got one too may boxes of ammo one time - I called to inform them, was told "enjoy the ammo"...

PSA has things right an many levels. Their success is no fluke. I wish they would stop with the great prices though - it's making me broke... they are a bit like crack dealers... and got lot's of us hooked :o :D

omgwtfbbq
01-27-2014, 2:10 PM
PSA has things right an many levels. Their success is no fluke. I wish they would stop with the great prices though - it's making me broke... they are a bit like crack dealers... and got lot's of us hooked :o :D

I have the opposite problem. I have told myself on multiple ocassions to just go ahead and buy an upper from them, but every time I look I keep telling myself, "But next week they are gonna have an even better deal, then you'll be sorry."

I think I will eventually (hopefully after next pay period) pop on one of their mock dissies. Seems like a neat idea and since it comes with a low-pro gas block already installed, if I don't like it, it would be an easy fix to remove the front sight and put on a free float handguard, and still cheaper than just about anywhere else.

zfields
01-27-2014, 2:22 PM
yep, but it's been many, many months since I've had any shipping problems it's gotten much better...

FWIW, the shipping mistakes weren't always "missing" items... I actually got one too may boxes of ammo one time - I called to inform them, was told "enjoy the ammo"...

PSA has things right an many levels. Their success is no fluke. I wish they would stop with the great prices though - it's making me broke... they are a bit like crack dealers... and got lot's of us hooked :o :D

I somehow got a nice Drago rifle case with some mags I ordered....

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5478ZjOn9IM/UubqNlSUbnI/AAAAAAAAFlk/X8NUwK4Dj6E/s576/IMAG0282.jpg

6point9
01-27-2014, 2:45 PM
The only way to find out which company has more QC problems is to see their order shipped to order error ratio. If PSA ships 2000 packages a day and has two mistake it would be the same as company X shipping 1000 packages and having one mistake.

The odds are better that PSA will not mess up your order, you may have to wait a few extra days but PSA is a solid company with good product and low prices which is worth the wait for many.

Well unfortunately we'll never see those numbers. All we can go by is the number of complaints and types of complaints we see from those on the internet or personal experience... Of course you have to take a lot of that with a grain of salt but at some point it becomes a trend. But with the interwebz chatter and everything else it becomes magnified and later turns into PSA = low end tier 2 not worthy gun when all is said and then.

It just seems like PSA could be step away from becoming a manufacture with the reputation BCM/DD etc., have. But that all depends on what they decide to do in the future to fix those previously perceived issues.

titleist686
01-31-2014, 1:42 AM
does PSA assemble their own uppers? or do they outsource that to another supplier?

Munny$hot
01-31-2014, 2:03 AM
does PSA assemble their own uppers? or do they outsource that to another supplier?

They assemble their psa uppers. PTac assembels theirs and sells them to psa.