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View Full Version : 2nd Bead----Questions


Go Navy
06-21-2012, 7:36 AM
I'm going to have a gunsmith install a 2nd bead on my Browning Silver Hunter 20. I know these are the kinds of questions that depend on personal preferences, but I'm asking for personal preferences and opinions.

(Yes, I know all the pros and cons of one vs. two beads but that's not the question I'm raising, so have mercy and let's not digress into that!)

1. How do I know what size bead to buy?

2. Should I replace the front bead at the same time if I want to try a different color/material? Or is it better to have a different look for each?

3. Is it best to have the sight rib tapped for a 2nd bead? Some beads are made for a "press fit".

4. Has anyone tried fiber optic versions, and if so, how do you like them, and what color seems best? For example, I've seen setups where there is a fiber optic on the front and a bead in the middle.

5. How do you determine where to locate the 2nd bead on the sight rib?

I use this shotgun for skeet, pheasant, upland game, sporting clays. It has a 28 inch barrel. It is not my self defense weapon and is not intended to play the G.I. Joe role. Also, I am not into competitive shotgunning. I really am happy with it, though.The Browning Silver is the successor/improved version of the Browning Gold. For me, it's a great all-around "smokepole". I have a couple of Trulock chokes on order for it, since I like it so much. (See attached picture)

kmca
06-21-2012, 8:11 AM
1. Measure the front bead and make the second one a little smaller.
2. My guns have a white front bead and gold second bead, your choice.
3. Mine are tapped, less chance to fall out.
4. Didn't like the fiber optic sight, distracted from the target too much. Others I shoot with like them.
5. Shoulder the gun and place it so it forms a figure 8 with the front.

That said, you probably won't notice the second bead much, if your gun fits you properly.

Go Navy
06-21-2012, 8:39 AM
Thanks, KMCA. Very helpful.

On my point #5 (where to place the 2nd bead), I didn't word that very well. What I'm asking is how to determine where to install it along the sight rib. 12 inches back from the muzzle? 18, 24? Is there some norm established for this based on 200 years of wisdom based on trial and error?

kmca
06-21-2012, 8:43 AM
I understand #5. Mount the shotgun with the gunsmith and he'll put it on the rib where it forms a figure 8 with the front bead. It will vary depending on your shooting style. It should be at least a little different for each individual.

Go Navy
06-21-2012, 8:58 AM
I understand #5. Mount the shotgun with the gunsmith and he'll put it on the rib where it forms a figure 8 with the front bead. It will vary depending on your shooting style. It should be at least a little different for each individual.

That makes a lot of sense, compared to some arbitrary measurement.

xtra870
06-21-2012, 12:48 PM
On my 11-87 i have some kind of weird front sight that had a hole in the middle i filled in with neon orange paint and combined with my middle bead is very easy to pick up on.

CGT80
06-21-2012, 3:25 PM
I don't even look at the fiber optic sight on my benelli super sport. I took a few skeet classes with Coach Don at BBB's and learned to point the gun without looking at the barrel. "Eye on the bird" is what he yelled at us :cuss:

It seemed very odd to ignore the sights at first. As I practiced, I found that I forgot what the bead looked like. You can probably point your finger at an object without concentrating on your finger. You can do the same with a shotgun when it fits you well enough and you practice the technique.

Sorry I don't have any advice for which beads to use.

ysr_racer
06-21-2012, 5:07 PM
GN, I'm just curious. What are you trying to accomplish with the second bead?

I personally shoot a gun without any beads because as cgt80 said, I'm looking at the birds, not the beads.

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL856/883856/2773051/400130577.jpg

Go Navy
06-21-2012, 5:34 PM
GN, I'm just curious. What are you trying to accomplish with the second bead?

I personally shoot a gun without any beads because as cgt80 said, I'm looking at the birds, not the beads.

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL856/883856/2773051/400130577.jpg

Well, I don't want this thread to get hijacked into a discussion about beads vs. no beads, or one bead vs. two....as I said in the original post, have mercy and let's not head there, as I've heard/read all those arguments ad nauseum.

That said, just to answer your question, I think it will help me see better where I'm pointing, especially whether I'm aiming high or low. Now, hopefully everyone will not jump on that and run off on a debate about sights on shotguns, beads, etc.!!! Again, yes, I've seen all the arguments pro and con. Yes, I know you just point a shotgun, you don't aim it. Yes, I know about proper fit. I've been shotgunning for probably 30 years which does not mean I'm an expert because I'm not.....I'm a recreational shooter; it just means I know what I like. Some will like other approaches and that's great as far as I'm concerned.

Thefeeder
06-21-2012, 6:27 PM
The aswers are quite simple.

Since you are having a smith install the mid bead...he will have a selection and know how to install it. Just choose one

As far as the front bead....do you like it? Ask what is avalable and simply choose.

Tapered rib......to expensive to change and you will not even notice it.

It comes down to what You like.

Personaly....I shoot guns with one and two beads,.....I don't notice a difference. I'm not a fan of wide ribs though. Here are some Browning sights at Midwest gun Works http://www.midwestgunworks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=mgwi&Category_Code=C-016-4&offset=12&view_perpage=

Go Navy
06-21-2012, 7:11 PM
The aswers are quite simple.

Since you are having a smith install the mid bead...he will have a selection and know how to install it. Just choose one

As far as the front bead....do you like it? Ask what is avalable and simply choose.

Tapered rib......to expensive to change and you will not even notice it.

It comes down to what You like.

Personaly....I shoot guns with one and two beads,.....I don't notice a difference. I'm not a fan of wide ribs though. Here are some Browning sights at Midwest gun Works http://www.midwestgunworks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=mgwi&Category_Code=C-016-4&offset=12&view_perpage=

Thanks for the comments, research and link, TheFeeder.......very helpful. Tapered rib....nope, not going to change that.

ysr_racer
06-21-2012, 9:03 PM
Well, I don't want this thread to get hijacked into a discussion about beads vs. no beads, or one bead vs. two....as I said in the original post, have mercy and let's not head there, as I've heard/read all those arguments ad nauseum.

That said, just to answer your question, I think it will help me see better where I'm pointing, especially whether I'm aiming high or low. Now, hopefully everyone will not jump on that and run off on a debate about sights on shotguns, beads, etc.!!! Again, yes, I've seen all the arguments pro and con. Yes, I know you just point a shotgun, you don't aim it. Yes, I know about proper fit. I've been shotgunning for probably 30 years which does not mean I'm an expert because I'm not.....I'm a recreational shooter; it just means I know what I like. Some will like other approaches and that's great as far as I'm concerned.

OK cool. I just wanted to know what you were after.

Thefeeder
06-21-2012, 9:31 PM
Thanks for the comments, research and link, TheFeeder.......very helpful. Tapered rib....nope, not going to change that.


No sweat ....if you want, I'm in the Bay Area and have Brownings with different sights you can handle or shoot. I mostly shoot in San Francisco and just started teaching Skeet clinics in San Jose....come on by some time and give'em a test drive

ysr_racer
06-22-2012, 7:22 AM
GN, can you give us an update after you've had it done?

Let us know if it worked out for you.

Go Navy
06-22-2012, 7:37 AM
Sure thing......will be happy to. I want to proceed carefully, because I don't want to cheapen the looks or functioning of this nice shotgun!

Go Navy
07-24-2012, 5:03 PM
I dropped off my Browning Silver Hunter 20 gauge barrel only (not the entire shotgun) with a new Hi-Vix red fiber optic front sight still in its original package, which I had obtained from Midway USA and which is spec'ed for Brownings, including an assortment of screws to fit. I took it to Diablo Gun Works in Pleasant Hill, because they have two or three gunsmiths who work on site. I wanted them to install the sight because the original white bead was plastic and I could not get it off, since it immediately deformed with any tool. I did confirm directly, by phone, with Browning customer service that these beads are threaded into the sight rib. In other words, the rib is already tapped. Obviously the people at HiViz know this, too, as their product and the screws they send with it are designed for this.

I had my Trulock Skeet I choke in it, and Diablo suggested I remove it and take it home with me, which I did. As you read on, you'll notice that turned out to be a lucky move, maybe, or maybe not.

After a week, today I picked up the barrel with the new sight installed. It looked ok based on a cursory inspection. It was only after I got home that I noticed they had apparently tapped the hole down through the sight rib and into the barrel itself, and the screw they used to mount the sight is too long and sticking into the barrel! Evidently someone there is unaware that shotguns have interchangeable chokes; that if you're wondering you can simply look into the barrel and see the threads for chokes; and that most, or maybe all Brownings come with interchangeable chokes. Even if they didn't you wouldn't want a screw sticking down into the muzzle of your shotgun as it would do weird things to your patterns! Of course the chokes will not even go into the barrel at this point. And I'm not even a gunsmith.

Maybe it was already tapped through to the barrel and they just used the wrong screw. I'm guessing that if they simply replace the screw with a shorter one that stops short of the inner surface of the barrel, then installed chokes will cover up the resulting recess and there won't be any problems. Naturally it'll never be fired without a choke in it.

The good news is that the internal barrel threads for the chokes are back aways from the muzzle so those were not affected by this mistake. Tomorrow I'll take the barrel back and have them correct this avoidable error.

Frustrated. You would think a gunsmith worth his salt would not make a mistake like this.

xtra870
07-24-2012, 5:52 PM
I think that is absolutely BS and i would be furious that happened. Any competent gunsmith should understand something that simple. However if it was just a simple screw mixup it will be easy to fix and no harm done.

ysr_racer
07-24-2012, 5:56 PM
I told you to just take off the front bead and call it a day :)

Go Navy
07-24-2012, 6:44 PM
Ok, Ok, ysr, now you can say "you told me so". Gimme a break!!

Go Navy
07-24-2012, 6:47 PM
I think that is absolutely BS and i would be furious that happened. Any competent gunsmith should understand something that simple. However if it was just a simple screw mixup it will be easy to fix and no harm done.

I assure you they WILL get the message. And all liberty is hereby cancelled until further notice. Don't like it? See the Chaplain.

kmca
07-24-2012, 6:47 PM
Not that big of a deal. Just have to shorten the screw :)

BTW, if a bead isn't necessary how come all the top shooters use one???

ysr_racer
07-25-2012, 6:28 AM
BTW, if a bead isn't necessary how come all the top shooters use one???

Beats me, I'm nowhere near a top shooter.

But I don't think my lack of beads is the problem :)

high_revs
07-25-2012, 8:47 AM
old navy, i'd be furious. it sounds a lot like incompetence of drilling thru the barrel. even the videos on brownell's say do not drill thru the barrel and even threw in a trick of putting a penny in between the rib and barrel. i don't know enough about shotguns to know how badly this would it. but you have a hole in an area not designed to have a hole now. :(

i'm surprised they didn't drill anymore to give your ports. LOL (sorry coudln't resist that one).

i'd be pissed off though if in your place. :(

Go Navy
07-26-2012, 1:43 PM
The problem was fixed yesterday while I waited, and it only took 10-15 minutes. On the initial visit, I never spoke to the actual gunsmith; I talked with the store owner. The owner was extremely apologetic. He called the gunsmith out of the 'smithing shop in the back and we talked. He also apologized, was embarrassed, and said he must have got distracted, put it aside, and then didn't realize he had not finished the job. I've used this 'smith before and he's highly experienced, older, and doesn't talk nonsense.

The screw was removed, ground down to fit flush on the inside of the barrel, and reinstalled with blue loctite, which is removable. Now the inside of the muzzle is smooth and you can hardly tell where the screw is. The chokes go in fine now.

I've attached a picture which shows how small these HiViz shotgun sights are. To my eye, they're designed to look about the same size as a bead when you are behind the gun. It's a clean, low profile look to me, and doesn't look gimmicky. The screw head is just forward of the fiber optic, but you can barely see it in the picture.

The picture also shows a Trulock Skeet choke installed. If you don't like the stainless look (which of course you don't see at all when shooting) they come blued, too. The choke extends another couple inches down into the barrel, way past the point near the muzzle where the sight screw is located. The choke threads are at the deepest end of the inserted choke. The barrel diameter expands slightly near the muzzle end to accommodate the interchangeable chokes. You wouldn't tend to notice that unless you looked very carefully or ran your hand over the barrel. I suppose they're all like this across all makes.....not sure, though.

Now she's ready for some clays.

ysr_racer
07-26-2012, 5:35 PM
Glad it worked out for you !!

Go Navy
07-26-2012, 6:26 PM
Glad it worked out for you !!

Thanks, ysr. The proof will be in the shooting! I'm a lousy clay shooter, so I can't blame any results on the sight. I'll find something to blame it on!

ysr_racer
07-26-2012, 7:05 PM
I'm a lousy clay shooter, so I can't blame any results on the sight. I'll find something to blame it on!

Now you're thinking. There's been plenty of days:

The sun was in my eyes
I had a pebble in my shoe
It was a fast pull
It was a slow pull
The bird was broken coming off the machine
That was a "no bird" because...