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View Full Version : New M1A Radway Green Ammo Problem


Budtheweiser
06-20-2012, 7:50 PM
I just picked up my new M1A Socom 16 and am having a problem with Radway Green surplus ammo. I have fired 8 rounds and 5 of the 8 were FTE's. The brass stuck in the chamber with the rim of the cartridge ripped off. I had to tap them out with a rod. I also have fired 3 Federal XM80C without issue. I have seen good things written about Radway and M1A's so I bought it. Has anyone else seen this problem? Thanks for any help/advise/info you can provide.

Sailormilan2
06-20-2012, 8:29 PM
I don't believe it is the problem with the RG ammo. It sounds like you have a rough chamber and it needs to go back to Springfield for repair. RG ammo is NATO spec ammo, and some of the best stuff out there. NATO spec is what Springfield warranties the gun to work with.
I had a similar issue, though not as bad, with my M1A. However, since I was using South African Surplus(which is not NATO spec) and reloads, Springfield wouldn't warranty it.
I tried polishing the chamber, but without any decent improvements. You need to send it back to them, with a stuck case in the chamber and let them fix it.
You are not the only one with this problem. This seems to be a sporadic problem in Springfield M1As. I have read of other that have had it too, plus as I mentioned, my self.

Gasman
06-21-2012, 1:28 PM
I also have fired 3 Federal XM80C without issue.

Did you mean that you have only fired 3 rounds of XM80C through your M1A? If so, do you believe that's proof that your SOCOM is reliable with XM80C but unreliable with RG?

-hanko
06-21-2012, 4:07 PM
Yet another good reason why Springfield Armory has a lifetime warranty:rolleyes:...ship it back.

-hanko

Budtheweiser
06-21-2012, 8:02 PM
No I do not believe it is enough info/testing to make a decision on reliablabilty of the weapon system or the ammo. I haven't had a chance to shoot it very much. I just know the Radway appears to be a problem so I thought I would ask what others have seen and experienced.

Thank you all for the replies.

Sailormilan2
06-21-2012, 8:40 PM
No I do not believe it is enough info/testing to make a decision on reliablabilty of the weapon system or the ammo. I haven't had a chance to shoot it very much. I just know the Radway appears to be a problem so I thought I would ask what others have seen and experienced.

Thank you all for the replies.

If it is ripping the rims off cases then there is a good chance that it will not get better and should go back to SA with one of the damaged cases still in the chamber.
Let SA figure it out and fix it.

Budtheweiser
06-23-2012, 8:26 AM
I called Springfield and they said that they had never heard of Radway and that it is probably an ammo issue. They told me to try other factory new ammo. And to try 308 WIN. I purchased some American Eagle 150gr 308 FMJ. The rifle operates fine. At the same time I fired a few more of the Federal XM80C and realized the bolt does not easily close. And, I cannot manually eject an unfired round from the chamber. I had to use a rubber mallet to get it out. This is repeatable with the XM80C.

I found this headspace info on 7.62 NATO vs 308 WIN.
308 Winchester
GO: 1.630"
NOGO: 1.634"
FIELD REJECT: 1.638"

7.62 x 51mm NATO
GO: 1.635"
FIELD REJECT: 1.6455"

How are these rounds compatible if the NO GO of 308 WIN is smaller than the GO on 7.62?

Also, the info with my rifle (from Springfield) says it has a headspace measurement of 1.631. This is all pretty new to me but it appears to me that my M1A does not have enough headspace to shoot the 7.62 NATO. Is this correct or am I missing something?

The more I read on the subject the more confused I get.

GM4spd
06-23-2012, 8:38 AM
I have used RG in at least six M1A and FAL type rifles with no issues.Your
rifle needs attention. Pete

Sailormilan2
06-23-2012, 12:19 PM
I called Springfield and they said that they had never heard of Radway and that it is probably an ammo issue. They told me to try other factory new ammo. And to try 308 WIN. I purchased some American Eagle 150gr 308 FMJ. The rifle operates fine. At the same time I fired a few more of the Federal XM80C and realized the bolt does not easily close. And, I cannot manually eject an unfired round from the chamber. I had to use a rubber mallet to get it out. This is repeatable with the XM80C.

I found this headspace info on 7.62 NATO vs 308 WIN.
308 Winchester
GO: 1.630"
NOGO: 1.634"
FIELD REJECT: 1.638"

7.62 x 51mm NATO
GO: 1.635"
FIELD REJECT: 1.6455"

How are these rounds compatible if the NO GO of 308 WIN is smaller than the GO on 7.62?

Also, the info with my rifle (from Springfield) says it has a headspace measurement of 1.631. This is all pretty new to me but it appears to me that my M1A does not have enough headspace to shoot the 7.62 NATO. Is this correct or am I missing something?

The more I read on the subject the more confused I get.

Externally, most 7.62x51 NATO ammo will be no different than commercially made .308 Win ammo and both types should be interchangable in a commercial chamber. . Your rifle's chamber is cut to .308 Win specs, not 7.62NATO specs. So, both types of ammo should function with no problem.
If your rifle has its chamber cut to longer NATO specs, then problems can occur shooting commerical ammo. Since the thinner brass of commercial ammo often can't stretch enough in the longer NATO cut chamber, so the brass often splits. That is not your problem here.
I don't know who you talked to there, but Radway Green ammo is, or was, a very common mil surp ammo a fews years back. Good stuff. Since it has the NATO proof stamp on the bottom, it is safe to shoot in your M1A. It should be recommended ammo for it.
My problemmatic M1A did better with RG Surplus than it did with South African Surplus. SA surplus always got cases stuck in the chamber. RG only did it once.
Your best bet, get a RG case stuck in the chamber, then box it up and send it back to them. Don't call and wait for a Returm Merchandise Authorization (RMA). I should have done that with mine, rather than mess with it.
If a case is sticking in the chamber, most of the time, it is caused by a rough chamber. Usually due to a worn or misground chambering reamer. Springfield has had this issue from time to time.
Your rifle may prefer one ammo over another for accuracy purposes, but it should not function with one type and not function with another type. Good indication something is wrong. Sounds like Springfield is trying to weasil out of doing a repair..................................which is what they did with mine.

-hanko
06-23-2012, 6:06 PM
I called Springfield and they said that they had never heard of Radway and that it is probably an ammo issue. They told me to try other factory new ammo. And to try 308 WIN. I purchased some American Eagle 150gr 308 FMJ. The rifle operates fine. At the same time I fired a few more of the Federal XM80C and realized the bolt does not easily close. And, I cannot manually eject an unfired round from the chamber. I had to use a rubber mallet to get it out. This is repeatable with the XM80C.

I found this headspace info on 7.62 NATO vs 308 WIN.
308 Winchester
GO: 1.630"
NOGO: 1.634"
FIELD REJECT: 1.638"

7.62 x 51mm NATO
GO: 1.635"
FIELD REJECT: 1.6455"

How are these rounds compatible if the NO GO of 308 WIN is smaller than the GO on 7.62?

Also, the info with my rifle (from Springfield) says it has a headspace measurement of 1.631. This is all pretty new to me but it appears to me that my M1A does not have enough headspace to shoot the 7.62 NATO. Is this correct or am I missing something?

The more I read on the subject the more confused I get.
Appears Springfield has chambered what (I think) should be a replica of a military weapon to bolt action specs...one thou over go gauge is workable, but you'll need to get a precision sizing die and hope you can resize your ammo to fit the gun...a real pita. That might explain their comment about the Radway Green

If you're planning on shooting NATO ammo, ask them if they can rechamber the gun. Anecdotal experience here with a few M1A's (none from S'field btw) and many FAL's causes me to cut the chamber around 1.634-1.635. The guns eat any military ammo they're fed....308 works but I tend shoot .308 that approximates the NATO round...150-ish grain bullets with pressure similar to the NATO spec. If I'm looking for a precision shooter, it's an FN bolt gun with a tight chamber and rounds sized for the chamber.



hth

-hanko

Budtheweiser
07-03-2012, 8:05 AM
Called Springfield again and the person I spoke with this time was much more knowledgeable. He had used all the ammo I tried and said it was probably not an ammo issue. He said it might be either a tight or possibly rough chamber. It is now in their hands. I will post an update when I get it back.

Budtheweiser
09-17-2012, 12:34 PM
Update - Finally got to the range this last weekend with my M1A after getting it back from Springfield. It took about 5 weeks for them to get it back to me. I put about 100 rounds (mostly Radway and Federal 7.62 and some American Eagle 308)through it.

Not one problem. I am very pleased.

jeffrice6
09-17-2012, 2:48 PM
Update - Finally got to the range this last weekend with my M1A after getting it back from Springfield. It took about 5 weeks for them to get it back to me. I put about 100 rounds (mostly Radway and Federal 7.62 and some American Eagle 308)through it.

Not one problem. I am very pleased.

Did it come back with a work order?

30Cal
09-17-2012, 3:59 PM
Very good!

Capybara
09-17-2012, 4:49 PM
Good to hear and glad you got that mess straightened out.

Budtheweiser
09-18-2012, 6:53 PM
No work order. But, they told me they polished the chamber and changed the extractor.

jeffrice6
09-18-2012, 9:31 PM
No work order. But, they told me they polished the chamber and changed the extractor.

Giddy~up!

Sailormilan2
09-19-2012, 5:06 AM
No work order. But, they told me they polished the chamber and changed the extractor.

At this point a suggestion is in order. M1A/M14 rifles are good solid platform rifles that sometimes take a bit of tweaking to get the best accuracy from. They are very reliable. However, I would recommend that you get a couple of spare extractors and keep them on hand. Springfield's extractors are rather notorious for breaking or disappearing into space within the first few hundred rounds. A couple of extra extractor plungers and springs might be a good idea too.
Try to find some USGI made extractors and keep them on hand. M1 Garand extractors are identical and work, as do the Italian made Beretta made ones.
Springfields are castings and they had such a problem with them that they deepened the detent hole where the extractor plunger goes so they would stay in place better.