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vikingm03
06-20-2012, 1:21 PM
Im not sure if this should be in the 2nd amendment forum or not...

Anyways, I have a featureless ar-15 and was wondering, why does the monsterman grip (which is what I have) have the fin that connects the grip to the stock? Other featureless grips, like the U15 and Exile Hammerhead, allow the hand to wrap around the grip. The calguns flow chart says the web of the trigger hand cant be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing. Without the fin, does the monsterman grip not meet this requirement? To me it looks like, looking at the picture in the flowchart and imagining it didn't have the fin, the web of the shooters hand would be just above the trigger.

Here is a link to the calguns flow chart, if you haven't already read it you should! Link (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calguns.net%2Fcaawid%2Fflowch art.pdf&ei=QCziT9-VHsLS2gXfo9zeCw&usg=AFQjCNH3xq6ayi_LCDbHB5S2ojJdNbH7Sw)

MiddleKingdom
06-20-2012, 2:13 PM
Im not sure if this should be in the 2nd amendment forum or not...

Anyways, I have a featureless ar-15 and was wondering, why does the monsterman grip (which is what I have) have the fin that connects the grip to the stock? Other featureless grips, like the U15 and Exile Hammerhead, allow the hand to wrap around the grip. The calguns flow chart says the web of the trigger hand cant be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing. Without the fin, does the monsterman grip not meet this requirement? To me it looks like, looking at the picture in the flowchart and imagining it didn't have the fin, the web of the shooters hand would be just above the trigger.

Here is a link to the calguns flow chart, if you haven't already read it you should! Link (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calguns.net%2Fcaawid%2Fflowch art.pdf&ei=QCziT9-VHsLS2gXfo9zeCw&usg=AFQjCNH3xq6ayi_LCDbHB5S2ojJdNbH7Sw)

Just a guess, but I think that's a little too close for comfort. Without the divider the grip is a pistol grip.

ojisan
06-20-2012, 2:24 PM
The "fin" is to prevent thumb wrap around.
Filling in the gap between grip and stock helps with avoiding the definition of a pistol grip as "protruding conspicuously".

vikingm03
06-20-2012, 2:43 PM
The "fin" is to prevent thumb wrap around.
Filling in the gap between grip and stock helps with avoiding the definition of a pistol grip as "protruding conspicuously".

But these featureless grips let you wrap your thumb around:

http://www.irvingtonarms.com/assets/images/db_images/db_U15_Stock1.jpg

http://www.wallsofthecity.net/images/gun/hammerhead.jpg

artoaster
06-20-2012, 2:57 PM
I'm not sure, although it may have to do with an imaginary line above or at trigger and the position of the web of the hand or of the the thumb relative to that line.

vikingm03
06-20-2012, 3:06 PM
Thanks for the input everyone!

I'm not sure, although it may have to do with an imaginary line above or at trigger and the position of the web of the hand or of the the thumb relative to that line.

Could be. Here is a picture of the Monsterman grip
http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/images/MMG2.jpg

If it is due to the line above the trigger, what if you only removed the fin above that line? That looks to be almost half the fin.

Also, the U15 stock does dip a little lower than the hammerhead grip...

Chaos47
06-20-2012, 3:18 PM
I beleive that the design of the monsterman was to be more safe from the portion of the definition that talks about protrudes conspicuously beneath.

If you cut the fin off the monster man it could be possible to "placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing"

I would not modify the monster man. If you want a hold like this then look into exile machines hammerhead grip...

(d) "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon”
means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger
hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the
exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

DGoodale
06-20-2012, 3:42 PM
The difference is that the Hammerhead replaces the pistol grip with a traditional like rifle stock where as the Monsterman simply blocks the thumb from wrapping around the pistol grip. If you remove the fin or web you still have a rifle with a pistol grip and a stock.

mrvash
06-20-2012, 4:04 PM
I just went featureless myself (A2 stock + Monster Man grip), I'm wondering if a Magpul AFG is considered as a vertical grip. Anyone have an opinion on this? Didn't the DOJ mention that the Magpul AFG is not technically a VG?

Chaos47
06-20-2012, 4:18 PM
I just went featureless myself (A2 stock + Monster Man grip), I'm wondering if a Magpul AFG is considered as a vertical grip. Anyone have an opinion on this? Didn't the DOJ mention that the Magpul AFG is not technically a VG?

From my featureless guide:

(c) "forward pistol grip" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp forward of the trigger.

Notice the definition does not state the part about the “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon”. It only specifies that it is a forward grip.

It is the general consensus that it is NO-GO to use a Magpul Angled forend grip. Because it allows for a forward grasp and is marketed as a grip.

mrvash
06-20-2012, 5:00 PM
From my featureless guide:

(c) "forward pistol grip" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp forward of the trigger.

Notice the definition does not state the part about the “pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon”. It only specifies that it is a forward grip.

It is the general consensus that it is NO-GO to use a Magpul Angled forend grip. Because it allows for a forward grasp and is marketed as a grip.

Gotcha' thank you!

stix213
06-20-2012, 5:12 PM
I just went featureless myself (A2 stock + Monster Man grip), I'm wondering if a Magpul AFG is considered as a vertical grip. Anyone have an opinion on this? Didn't the DOJ mention that the Magpul AFG is not technically a VG?

There has been several threads on this topic actually. I remember the argument that you can't actually have a pistol style grasp, but then a mod here linked a picture of them cupping their hand around the AFG lol. So I believe the consensus was that it may be legal or may not be, but without a DOJ opinion or any court record you are risking being the test case by doing so (so don't do it).