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Wernher von Browning
06-20-2012, 8:59 AM
Hi, all.

I just finished my zero percent lower build of an AR-15 in .223 Rem. I have a Rock River Arms National Match upper.

I was going to order up some 5- and 10-round magazines from Midway, but I see no matter which brand I choose, there are always some reviewers who had serious problems with them.

Can anybody recommend, from experience, some specific brands in the 5- or 10-round configuration?


Thanks in advance.

rero360
06-20-2012, 9:06 AM
I have a C-Product 10 round mag, have had it since late '09 when I was getting ready to move to CA, I've shot hundreds of rounds thru it without any problems.

With that said, its the only 10 round mag that I have, so my opinion isn't worth much, a single sample with limited experience.

Fractured
06-20-2012, 9:13 AM
I have 4 pmags that work great.

Where do they sell usgi 10 rounders?

NightingaleM44
06-20-2012, 9:31 AM
X2 on C product mags.
Made 10/20s from the mags i got from 44mag.com

jsipe007
06-20-2012, 9:35 AM
On MidwayUSA the Stoner Mags got good reviews and seemed affordable. Maybe try looking into those?

jsipe007
06-20-2012, 9:49 AM
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/388400/ar-stoner-magazine-ar-15-223-remington-10-round-with-anti-tilt-follower-stainless-steel-black

Lexustech48
06-20-2012, 10:09 AM
If you go the PMAG route, only use the 30 round mag bodies. The follower is better, and from what I've heard the 20 round PMAG when used with a block plate can sometimes cause ftf's. I have a 10/30 pmag that I got from exhilemachine.com they are one of our sponsors here and they have great serivce!

Wernher von Browning
06-20-2012, 10:23 AM
On MidwayUSA the Stoner Mags got good reviews and seemed affordable. Maybe try looking into those?

Well, the thing with reviews is, no matter what the product, somebody is going to complain and slam it.

Precisely this, on the Stoners (I expected good quality with that brand) is what caused me to post my question here.

One reviewer at Midway said the 5-rounder fit his Rock River AR just fine. But another gave it the lowest possible rating and wrote

Before even loading a round in this mag I tried it in my Rock River AR and it went in with some slight resistance but it locked in place and locked open the bolt. Removing it was impossible. There was no wiggling, no helpful pushing out from the ejection port. I had to remove the upper and shove it out with a tool. Close examination of the exterior showed no rub points. I also bought the Stoner 20 round mag at the same time and it has a slight problem locking in with the bolt closed but it flys out of the well when you hit the mag release button. This 5 rounder is going back, I will keep the 20 only to see what happens next. Since I got them on sale and almost anything less than 30 round is almost impossible to find reasonably is the only reason to keep the 20.


So I'm gathering some extra data points here...

Exile Machine
06-20-2012, 10:37 AM
We have sold a metric buttload of ASC 10 rounders (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/search/results.html?search_in_description=1&keyword=ASC+10RD+223&x=0&y=0), and have heard zero complaints.

Our 10/20 PMAG kits (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/search/results.html?search_in_description=1&keyword=10%2F20+PMAG+KIT&x=0&y=0) are made using the Magpul 10 round block for a 100% magpul solution. No complaints on those yet.

Our 10/30 PMAG kits (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/search/results.html?search_in_description=1&keyword=10%2F30+PMAG+KIT&x=0&y=0) are made using the ingenious Magblocks LLC blocks (which are designed and manufactured in CA, BTW). Zero reported problems with these. We also have them in the uber-rare Larue UDE color.

Internet commandos do love to equate the Promag brand with dog excrement, but we have sold a whole bunch of their 10 rounders (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/promag-colt-ar15-223rem-10rd-blk-623.html) with no gripes.

We recently added Lancer mags including their polymer 10 rounders (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/search/results.html?search_in_description=1&keyword=LANCER+10RD&x=0&y=0) to our lineup and these have been very popular, no complaints on the Lancers.

Legasat
06-20-2012, 10:38 AM
My P-Mag 10/30's seem to work just fine.

In online reviews, you rarely see 100%. If I see 90% or better with a fair amount of reviewers, I figure they must be pretty good.

Johnnyfres
06-20-2012, 10:39 AM
This is what I use. No problems what so ever.


http://www.44mag.com/product/asc_10_ar15_magazine/223_ar15_magazines

russ69
06-20-2012, 10:52 AM
In the old days you just picked up any 20 round aluminum GI magazine (colt) and never even thought about it. Nowadays it's not as easy. I have bought just about all the different ones on the market. Then when I find one I like, they change it and it's not the same product anymore.
I suggest you buy something you like, then use it right away and if it works good then go buy a batch of them. I keep the ones that feed well and just toss the losers, so I have about 7 types of magazines but only 2 or 4 of each type.

smalltime
06-20-2012, 11:07 AM
No issues with D&H 10 rounders with magpul followers. Eagle armory had 7 for $80 shipped but they are out of stock.

jsipe007
06-20-2012, 11:22 AM
On the Stoner Mag, I was actually referring to the 10 Round version... my buddy has one and really likes it so far.

as for the PMAGs, I agree that the 20rd quality just isnt the same. Im in reno, so I have no experience with 10/20 or 10/30 pmags, but my 20rd PMAG is definitely close to out of spec. I returned the first because it was out of spec and wouldnt seat. Then I got another one and it was better than the first but still not great. It takes a pretty decent amount of force to have the mag locked in. I actually took a dremel to it to solve the problem, but its just not built to the same quality as the 30rd mags. My 30rd Pmags all seat nicely. Also I really like how the dust cover can be attached to the base of the mag. This isnt an option for the 20rd mag and I lost that pieceof plastic long ago for the 20rd mag.

chunker
06-20-2012, 11:34 AM
pmags from exilemachine.net

daking
06-20-2012, 11:57 AM
I have a 10 rnd Stoner and a 10/20 Promag steel mag. They both work fine.

SURVIVOR619
06-20-2012, 12:03 PM
I have 4 20 round pmags that were cut down to a 10 round size from midwestpx.com. I like that they are short, but I've had some feeding faux pas with two of them, yet the other two have been completely flawless for a few hundred rounds...

Some have said it's just break in, others have said the 30 round followers are the true anti-tilts, while the 20-round followers are not as good as the 30's... I just wanted to avoid a giant 30 rounder hanging down...

russ69's comments to me are quite appropriate...

SURVIVOR619
06-20-2012, 12:03 PM
I have 4 20 round pmags that were cut down to a 10 round size from midwestpx.com. I like that they are short, but I've had some feeding faux pas with two of them, yet the other two have been completely flawless for a few hundred rounds...

Some have said it's just break in, others have said the 30 round followers are the true anti-tilts, while the 20-round followers are not as good as the 30's... I just wanted to avoid a giant 30 rounder hanging down...

russ69's comments to me are quite appropriate...

SURVIVOR619
06-20-2012, 12:05 PM
Also, while I loathe the missteps of the pro-mag 223 saiga mags, my Dad runs nothing but 10/20 pro-mags in two separate ARs without issue...

Enjoy your new build! Cool that you've a build as opposed to an assembly.

SNCaliber
06-20-2012, 12:06 PM
10/30 pmag all the way

tradecraft
06-20-2012, 12:08 PM
Can we get some info on your 0% build?

-hanko
06-20-2012, 12:12 PM
Simmons Precision aluminum 20's...I have about a dozen, they get shot regularly. Never an ftf issue whatsoever.

-hanko

Wernher von Browning
06-20-2012, 12:28 PM
Enjoy your new build! Cool that you've a build as opposed to an assembly.

Can we get some info on your 0% build?

Thanks.

I should say maybe it was a 10% build, if you want to be precise. I bought it from JD Machine, and the magazine well had already been broached through, which saves a ton of fiddly work. It's hard to make square corners with a round cutter and I don't like the idea of filing that.

The rest of the forging, though, was solid. I used the online cookbook to poke all the other holes in it.

http://www.lecreg.com/P4x4/ARblank.pdf

It's good to have a whacking huge milling machine with digital readouts... :)

Building my own, I was able to mill out the pocket for the trigger group to be just barely wide enough -- no side slop. Ditto for the cuts that take the front and rear lugs from the upper. If done to spec, there would be .005" sideways slop there. I just snuck up on it half a thousandth at a time until the upper would just barely go in, under some pressure. That upper is TIGHT...

tradecraft
06-20-2012, 2:19 PM
Impressive :) How long did it take?

Wernher von Browning
06-20-2012, 3:00 PM
Impressive :) How long did it take?

I tried to do one chapter a day. That was a very easy pace. Of course I could skip the chapter on the magazine well.

So, all told, about an hour to an hour and a half a day, for about two weeks. The time is in the setups, the actual machining is lots quicker.

It's not the sort of thing you'd want to do at a "build party." Heck, even a CNC machine takes the better part of an hour to do all these operations, if I saw that correctly somewhere online.

Wernher von Browning
06-20-2012, 3:09 PM
Some pix.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=155334&stc=1&d=1340233705

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=155335&stc=1&d=1340233705

Californio
06-20-2012, 3:22 PM
Lancer makes a quality 10 round shorty.

http://store.lancer-systems.com/advanced-warfighter-magazine/

Real nice for prone work.

Wernher von Browning
06-21-2012, 8:30 PM
Thanks, all, for the input.

I ordered a couple of ASC magazines from Exile Machine. It's nice to deal with somebody who's active on this forum.

arsilva32
06-21-2012, 8:58 PM
nice work on the rifle friend,its got that cool old school look.

hylander
06-21-2012, 8:59 PM
Take a 20rd. Pmag body.
Cut at the red line, straight across the bottom of the top rib, I use a fine tooth Hacksaw.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/hylander7/Firearms/Smithing/Pmag%20%20Mod/Picture126.jpg

You should now have this:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/hylander7/Firearms/Smithing/Pmag%20%20Mod/Picture107.jpg

Next useing a flat coarse file, file the bottom of the mag body where you just made the cut,
File flat until you can just start to fit the floor plate. Now use a fine flat file to smooth it out and just enough so the floor plate will slide on snug. You want that rib to be the same thickness as the groove in the floor plate where it mated with the mag bottom before you made your cut

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/hylander7/Firearms/Smithing/Pmag%20%20Mod/Picture107-1.jpg

Remove two coils from the spring.
I have tried them with the springs unmodified and then with the springs modified by removing two coils.
Either way they function 100% .

Now just re-assemble the Mag as normal and Bam you have a 10 round Mag.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/hylander7/Firearms/Smithing/Pmag%20%20Mod/Picture111.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/hylander7/Firearms/Smithing/Pmag%20%20Mod/Picture110.jpg

Note:
Sometimes a particular Mag may be able to load an 11th round in, if this happens you will need to replace
your 20rd. follower with a 30rd. follower.
If you need a 30 rd. follower you will only be able to load 8 rds.
Just file the bottom tails of the follower until you can load 10 rds.
Just remove a little at a time, Fit and file, fit and file.
Or you can epoxy a spent 9mm casing on the bottom of the follower and it will limit the mag to 10rds.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/hylander7/Firearms/Smithing/Pmag%20%20Mod/Picture119.jpg

Remove two coils from the spring.
I have tried them with the springs unmodified and then with the springs modified by removing two coils.
Either way they function 100% .