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View Full Version : CalGunner noob with 308 80% concerns


MAGTIKI
06-18-2012, 9:42 PM
Hi everyone, I have been a long time lurker of calguns. I have learned that in arenas with such vast knowledge it is often better to be silent for a while.... at least until necessary.

Needless to say I have learned heaps from all you guys! I am in the final stages of my my LR-308 build using a TM 308 80% lower and I have two AK kits waiting on the back burner.
http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb439/MAGTIKI/308/20120325_195119.jpg

What brings me out of the wood work is that I am one of 8 lowers that was completed from a group buy (did the machining myself :) ). We followed the letter of the law, or so we thought. We avoided all the "bad" features on the rifle. we have the bullet button, 10 rnd magazines, 20" barrel... the whole 9 yards.

To make a long story short, one of the members of the 8 was recently out past apple valley on some BLM land looking for a place to site in his riffle. He had just come on scene when he saw the rangers truck, he actually drove over to them and struck up a conversation. At some point they told him they were out looking for gunners and spot checking serial numbers. this spooked him because our home made lowers dont have any numbers. We were under the impression after having done as much reading as we could that we were within rights as unlicensed manufactures of our own firearms that are intended for own person use (you guys have heard it all before, I read most of it on here). Well, my buddy hypothetically asks them what if he was to build a 308 AR. Without hesitation they told him they would take it because you are not allowed that in CA. This has scared him and now he is hell bent on getting numbers on his lower and I cant necessarily disagree with him even though i feel its fundamentally wrong.

I am here blathering on about all of this because not only do I have one but so does my Dad (Father son project, it was fun) and so does my Uncle who is now completely scared that he is gonna get busted.

So! Enough of my rambling. Guys, what is your take on this? Will numbers help? Is there some part of the CA code that I missed that says I have to number it etc?

Oh, on a side note. The ranger my buddy spoke to was a pretty nice fellow, however misinformed he might be. He actually traded phone numbers with my buddy and said he would give him a call after following up with the local ATF about said rifle. Range called and said ATF agent said that he should have confiscated and destroyed the rifle!!!!! what!!!!!!????

CIV Tactical
06-18-2012, 10:12 PM
you are absolutely allowed to manufacture yourself a firearm and do not need to serial your receiver. It is smart to do so to cover your behind. As long as the rifle is not violating NFA or Cali laws it is legal. This is exactly what the higher powers want. They want you to be scarred to practice your rights, one misinformed ranger and an agent that might not know very much more has your family losing it over there rights. I would stamp your guns just to do so and know the law and keep building and practicing your rights.

sharxbyte
06-19-2012, 10:40 AM
Reserved for a sec while I go grab the paper I always carry around and link you to it.

Edit: (copied from another thread)
_______________________________

1-6 defines a zip gun. "NOTE: Almost any homemade firearm can qualify as a zip gun." Really? That doesn't sound right either.

For this reason I ALWAYS have this (highlighted) with my 80%:
Original Document (http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf)





(A6) Does the GCA prohibit anyone
from making a handgun, shotgun
or rifle?

With certain exceptions a firearm
may be made by a nonlicensee provided
it is not for sale and the maker
is not prohibited from possessing
firearms. However, a person is prohibited
from assembling a nonsporting
semi-automatic rifle or nonsporting
shotgun from imported parts. In addition,
the making of an NFA firearm
requires a tax payment and approval
by ATF. An application to make a
machinegun will not be approved
unless documentation is submitted
showing that the firearm is being
made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C.
5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and
479.105]

Also keep a copy of the flowchart. Are they required? No. Do I want to keep my rifle and not have to deal with hefty legal fees to prove that its legal? Nope.

MAGTIKI
06-19-2012, 5:18 PM
Hey thanks for the responses guys. I appreciate the reinforcement of what I thought was how it worked. And now I have someone else to help back my suggestion of keeping this paperwork with the gun.

Yeah, we were very careful to not come close to NFA issues or non-sporting issues here in CA. But this misinformed ranger has really screwed my group up.... they all think their going to prison now!!!

I am still just up in the air as far as trying to get numbers on these things or telling the guys to. We already got them anodized.

MrPlink
06-19-2012, 5:30 PM
At some point they told him they were out looking for gunners and spot checking serial numbers.

Without hesitation they told him they would take it because you are not allowed that in CA.

B.S. and more B.S.

I woulda popped a chubby had somebody told me some crap like that about my 80% builds.


With all the stupid laws and ill informed government agencies in this state, sadly part of gun ownership comes down to your own comfort level. Personally, a large part of my own comfort level comes down to knowing the laws and my rights, I suggest you and your friend do the same.

sharxbyte
06-19-2012, 10:55 PM
The ONLY reason you EVER put a serial number on an 80% is if you decide to sell/transfer, and then IIRC you need the manufacturer's name, and manufacture location as well. You can not make these to sell without an FFL (07?), but if you make it for yourself, and a few years down the road you do want to sell it, or transfer it to an heir or something, it can be done. I'm not sure if it also requires registration(to transfer to another party of course).

ke6guj
06-20-2012, 7:48 AM
The ONLY reason you EVER put a serial number on an 80% is if you decide to sell/transfer,

ONLY is a big word.

There are multiple reasons why a person might want to serialize an 80% receiver.

One might be that if it is ever stolen, that you have some sort of markings that can be added to a police report.

CIV Tactical
06-20-2012, 8:54 AM
Hey thanks for the responses guys. I appreciate the reinforcement of what I thought was how it worked. And now I have someone else to help back my suggestion of keeping this paperwork with the gun.

Yeah, we were very careful to not come close to NFA issues or non-sporting issues here in CA. But this misinformed ranger has really screwed my group up.... they all think their going to prison now!!!

I am still just up in the air as far as trying to get numbers on these things or telling the guys to. We already got them anodized.

Have them laser engraved with something to make them all personal to each one of you. or just go to harbor freight and buy stamps and put some backing in your magwell and stamp away. Tell your group to relax and join calguns so they can get info and ask questions and feel like part of the family here in cali. I know its helped me in my comfort level in the state as well as many others. Like I said before this is the brain washing cali has done to its residents when it comes to fire arms. Read the atf laws, you can find them on line really easy. Your group is following the law and practicing your individual 2nd ammend. rights. Just be prepared to deal with things like ill informed rangers but that shouldnt scare you from being a proud builder and gun owner.

problemchild
06-20-2012, 9:22 AM
Is it legal for BLM security guards to "spot check" private property? Can you tell them to go F themselves?

sharxbyte
06-20-2012, 11:21 AM
ONLY is a big word.

There are multiple reasons why a person might want to serialize an 80% receiver.

One might be that if it is ever stolen, that you have some sort of markings that can be added to a police report.

I guess I assumed that he'd want to make it look pretty with a custom emblem or something :p

So I made an a** out of me.:D

MAGTIKI
06-20-2012, 10:04 PM
Have them laser engraved with something to make them all personal...... Tell your group to relax and join calguns so they can get info and ask questions and feel like part of the family here in cali..... Read the atf laws..... Your group is following the law and practicing your individual 2nd ammendment..
I thought about personalizing but decided against it because 1- I liked the clean black look and 2- if I ever got desperate enough to need the cash bad enough to sell it it would be easier if it wasnt so personalized.
I have told them all so often about calguns but i think because I was always the one digging the info they all got lazy and never did anything... so last night I sent them each an email with tons of calguns links, now they have no choice!!!
And like you've said, its the scared citizens they want here in CA.. i hope they all dig into this as much as I have to get comfortable like you are saying because having all this fresh again in my head has convinced me that I will not be marking numbers on my lower.

make it look pretty with a custom emblem or something :p

So I made an a** out of me.:D
Well I had made this as a logo for myself and thought about getting a relief of it engraved...

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb439/MAGTIKI/308/firearmsopt7A.jpg http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb439/MAGTIKI/308/firearmsopt7B.jpg

sharxbyte
06-21-2012, 8:09 PM
that would be awesome! It would take a LOT to engrave. Recommend if you DO, go with a high level vectorization

Intimid8tor
06-21-2012, 8:23 PM
I thought about personalizing but decided against it because 1- I liked the clean black look and 2- if I ever got desperate enough to need the cash bad enough to sell it it would be easier if it wasnt so personalized.
I have told them all so often about calguns but i think because I was always the one digging the info they all got lazy and never did anything... so last night I sent them each an email with tons of calguns links, now they have no choice!!!
And like you've said, its the scared citizens they want here in CA.. i hope they all dig into this as much as I have to get comfortable like you are saying because having all this fresh again in my head has convinced me that I will not be marking numbers on my lower.


Well I had made this as a logo for myself and thought about getting a relief of it engraved...

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb439/MAGTIKI/308/firearmsopt7A.jpg http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb439/MAGTIKI/308/firearmsopt7B.jpg


I wouldn't use it as is. The DD Firearms could be taken as a manufacturers logo and since you don't have an FFL, it could be an issue. Take out the word firearms and it might be a bit better.

I point this out because I inquired with some of the bright legal minds on the board about putting my logo on my lowers. It is a little different because my logo represents an actual business, but it did not have the words firearms, gun, weapon etc in it. I was advised not to do it.

Though your logo represents you and not a business, it could be questioned.

MAGTIKI
06-23-2012, 12:22 AM
ah good point........ would have never thought of that....... essentially a business without an FFL manufacturing firearms. That is not even a good thing to imply! Glad I didnt do this now.

daking
06-23-2012, 7:55 PM
Be careful where you shoot out there by Apple Valley. If I'm not mistaken, most of that area east of 15 and south of 40 is shotgun only. San Bernardino County has a map online where you can double check.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fern
06-23-2012, 9:43 PM
Reserved for a sec while I go grab the paper I always carry around and link you to it.

Edit: (copied from another thread)
_______________________________


For this reason I ALWAYS have this (highlighted) with my 80%:
Original Document (http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf)




Also keep a copy of the flowchart. Are they required? No. Do I want to keep my rifle and not have to deal with hefty legal fees to prove that its legal? Nope.
Tagged for this link. Thanks!!

MAGTIKI
06-26-2012, 4:42 PM
Be careful where you shoot out there by Apple Valley. If I'm not mistaken, most of that area east of 15 and south of 40 is shotgun only. San Bernardino County has a map online where you can double check.

Thanks, I will look that up

baih777
06-26-2012, 4:56 PM
Be careful where you shoot out there by Apple Valley. If I'm not mistaken, most of that area east of 15 and south of 40 is shotgun only. San Bernardino County has a map online where you can double check.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

since the BLM took over this area (Stoddard Wells area) is shotgun only. Hodge road on the west is the only area i have been hearing about being legal to shoot. Went there once and i could still see the frwy and i went down pretty far. you can call the BLM office in barstow to confirm. i know for a fact on the east side BLM, Rangers and the Sheriff have been seen. and yes the BLM can check your belongings. usually they just check for a open fire pit. i have been asked about a weapon before.

clutchy
06-26-2012, 5:11 PM
they can't just spot check your serial or your gun, tell them to piss off.

it's little stuff like this that eats away at our constitutional freedoms.