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rogervzv
06-17-2012, 8:09 PM
I apologize if this has been asked before. I have a Mini 14 and will soon have two. I had my 1982 vintage Mini 14 at the range Saturday and really enjoyed shooting it. The muzzle blast was pretty sensational. I had forgotten what a .223 rifle muzzle blast looks like without a flash suppressor.

Is there any practical way to "bullet button" a Mini 14 so that you could then legally attach a flash suppressor? I have never seen this done, and candidly I am not sure that I would actually do it, since it is nice to be able to drop a magazine without any use of a "tool" e.g. a round. Has anyone done this or seen this?

Mossy Man
06-17-2012, 8:14 PM
Google mini 14 magazine lock. I think golden state tactical sells them.

dfletcher
06-17-2012, 8:17 PM
There is, search the site and the thread will pop up. Instead of an FH you might consider a brake as that doesn't trigger the AW issue.

The Mini 14 bolt on muzzle devices all have a cheezy look to them, I think. Since I had work done to include a new barrel I had the muzzle threaded and attached an AAC single chamber brake.

Kestryll
06-17-2012, 8:21 PM
Try one of these, drift the front sight pin out, slide the front sight off, slide this on and rep in.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=25221/Product/MINI-14-BLACK-WARRIOR-MUZZLE-BRAKE

It's a brake not a flash hider so you shouldn't need a bullet button.

rogervzv
06-17-2012, 8:25 PM
There is, search the site and the thread will pop up. Instead of an FH you might consider a brake as that doesn't trigger the AW issue.

The Mini 14 bolt on muzzle devices all have a cheezy look to them, I think. Since I had work done to include a new barrel I had the muzzle threaded and attached an AAC single chamber brake.

Can you explain the difference between a flash suppressor (AW) and a muzzle break? Do you have a link?

Mossy Man
06-17-2012, 8:30 PM
Real brakes wont reduce flash, but they will increase noise and enhance shooter perceived fireballs.

kris smith
06-17-2012, 8:47 PM
The fire balls on my stock mini aren't that bad

cannon
06-17-2012, 9:13 PM
Can you explain the difference between a flash suppressor (AW) and a muzzle break? Do you have a link?

Rule of thumb here.

1. If it has round holes instead of slots. You're good.
2, Up and down slots (like gills.) You're good.
3, Front to back slots except on the bottom. You're good.

You're good = No bullet button.

Oneaudiopro
06-17-2012, 10:01 PM
Try one of these, drift the front sight pin out, slide the front sight off, slide this on and rep in.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=25221/Product/MINI-14-BLACK-WARRIOR-MUZZLE-BRAKE

It's a brake not a flash hider so you shouldn't need a bullet button.

Thats not a break, its a flash suppressor............read the description.

Oneaudiopro
06-17-2012, 10:07 PM
Can you explain the difference between a flash suppressor (AW) and a muzzle break? Do you have a link?

A true muzzle break will direct the muzzle blast upwards to force the barrel down so you can stay on target. A flash suppressor directs the muzzle flash away from the actual muzzle in a circular outwards pattern. Hope that helps.

Mossy Man
06-17-2012, 10:36 PM
if you want something to add to your muzzle so it looks less "bare" i'd suggest getting a mo-reaper.

i have one on my mini 14 and i love it.

it's a tad noiser and the blast isn't too bad......it does noticeably reduce muzzle climb and it looks absolutely badass.

here's a short video of a friend of mine firing my mini-14:

l5_P_rnQCI8

Mossy Man
06-17-2012, 10:49 PM
plus the front sight is a huge upgrade over the factory front blade

bonesurf
06-18-2012, 6:48 AM
+1 on the Mo Reaper

gun toting monkeyboy
06-18-2012, 11:25 AM
Thats not a break, its a flash suppressor............read the description.

No, it is a muzzle brake. That is what it is listed as by the manufacturer. Additionally, it has a chamber inside of it that has a larger internal diameter and a reduced diameter exit hole. That meets the definition of a muzzle brake here in California. The happy accident that it also reduces the muzzle flash doesn't mean anything legally. And the word is brake, not break. There is a difference. :p

I have one of these on one of my mini-14s, and it works well enough. Installing it was a PITA. It required the help of the local gunsmith, a rubber mallet, and a drill press. Once we got it on though, it provided a much better front sight picture than the older single blade did. And it reduced the flash.

-Mb

rogervzv
06-18-2012, 6:52 PM
Not meaning to turn this into a legal discussion, but will cops know the difference between a muzzle brake and a flash suppressor? It only takes one assault weapon feature to make a rifle an assault rifle. Are a lot of guys using these "muzzle brakes" on Mini 14s? I like the way the muzzle brake looks and so forth, but I hate the idea of hassling with overzealous cops.

Mossy Man
06-18-2012, 6:58 PM
Not meaning to turn this into a legal discussion, but will cops know the difference between a muzzle brake and a flash suppressor? It only takes one assault weapon feature to make a rifle an assault rifle. Are a lot of guys using these "muzzle brakes" on Mini 14s? I like the way the muzzle brake looks and so forth, but I hate the idea of hassling with overzealous cops.

i think the mini-14 in general is low-profile enough to go under the radar even IF you had a few evil features on it. I'm not advocating it, but i've seen several on calguns, in person, that are not RAWs and not owned be LEOS that violate some rule or another.

This is probably the biggest advantage in Californistan for the mini 14

low profile, no one will probably question it.

when in doubt, keep the documentation of your brake.

My mo-reaper comes with a document from the manufacturer stating that it is NOT a flash hider, and is designed to function as a muzzle brake only.

Chaos47
06-18-2012, 7:56 PM
No, it is a muzzle brake. That is what it is listed as by the manufacturer. Additionally, it has a chamber inside of it that has a larger internal diameter and a reduced diameter exit hole. That meets the definition of a muzzle brake here in California. The happy accident that it also reduces the muzzle flash doesn't mean anything legally. And the word is brake, not break. There is a difference. :p

I have one of these on one of my mini-14s, and it works well enough. Installing it was a PITA. It required the help of the local gunsmith, a rubber mallet, and a drill press. Once we got it on though, it provided a much better front sight picture than the older single blade did. And it reduced the flash.

-Mb
Honestly not trying to be a jerk but.. you are wrong in just about every aspect as to how a Muzzle Device is classified.

Its not just what they name it, its also what they claim and how the device actually functions.
In this case they claim:
nearly eliminates muzzle flash

Thats enought for it to be determined to be a Flash Suppressor by the DOJ.

Also there is no definition of Muzzle Brake in CA only one for Flash Suppressor.
(b) “flash suppressor” means any device designed, intended, or that functions to
perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision.
Notice it does not go into any characteristics.

Characteristics of a Flash Suppressor or a Muzzle Brake are just useful for deciding on what category a device falls into. They are not law or even mentioned anywhere in the CA PC.

Furthermore during Hunt v Lockyer it was determined that:
1. That the DOJ’s definition of “flash suppressor” exceeded the authority granted to them by the legislature.
2. That the definition of “flash suppressor” was unconstitutionally vague and ambiguous.

From Hunt v Lockyer we get the deposition of DOJ Special Agent Ignatius (Iggy) Chinn
http://calgunlaws.com/Docs/ASSAULT%20WEAPONS/Cal%20Regulations/NRA-HuntPDecOfIgnatiusChinn061205.PDF
This declaration tells us the CADOJ processes of determining the classification of a device.

7. Accordingly, DOJ determines whether a particular feature or device is a flash suppressor as defined in section 978.20(b) by inspecting the device, reviewing material regarding the device provided by the manufacturer or otherwise, and/or consulting with ATF. In particular, DOJ determines whether a particular device is a flash suppressor under the regulatory definition by following a step-by-step analysis. In nearly all instances to date, DOJ has been able to determine that the device in question is a flash suppressor in the initial stage of the analysis, without needing to proceed further in the determination process.

8. The first step is determination of whether the device in question is designed or intended to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision. The assigned Firearms Division personnel examine the device and review material produced by the manufacturer of the device to see what the manufacturer has said publicly about its designed or intended uses for the device. Manufacturer materials reviewed can include brochures and packaging provided with the device, advertising materials, websites, and point-of-sale or other marketing materials. If it is determined that the device in question was designed or intended to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision, then the device is determined to be a flash suppressor, and the inquiry is at an end.

9. If however, it is determined that the device in question was not designed or intended to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision, then the analysis proceeds to a determination of whether the device nonetheless functions to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision. If it is determined that the device in question does not function to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision, then the device is determined not to be a flash suppressor, and the inquiry is at an end.

10. If, however, at this stage, Firearms Division personnel were unable to determine whether a particular device functions to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision based on inspection of the device, they would consult with ATF.

So in short the CA DOJ’s system for determining a Flash Suppressor is:
1. Examine the device and the claims made by the manufacturer.
If at step 1 the device is found to be a Flash Suppressor there is no need to progress to later steps and the device is determined to be a Flash Suppressor.

2. Test if the device does nonetheless function as a Flash Suppressor
If at step 2 the device is determined “not function to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision” then the device is determined not to be a Flash Suppressor”

3. If unable to determine, consult with ATF

See there is no "happy accident that it also reduces the muzzle flash" if the device passes the name game and claims it goes on to be tested...

For further reading on the subject please check out my featureless guide.
https://sites.google.com/site/featurelessrifleguide/legal-background-for-determining-muzzle-devices

rogervzv
06-18-2012, 8:08 PM
Thanks Chaos. As we used to say at the Frat House, it is a bust. I would say that any device like those we have been discussing would be at the very least potential trouble.

Chaos47
06-18-2012, 8:31 PM
No problem rogervzv
I haven't looked into mini14's much to be honest.

There must be one out there that is named a brake or compensator, doesn't make any suppressing/hiding ability claims, and is designed with features that are common to a brake.

But yes, I would steer way clear of a device that seems to cross any of those lines or even get near them.

If you have a flash suppressor on a featureless build well then its no longer featureless... might as well go fully illegal and add on all sorts of other features if your rifle is already illegal... lol :D

Good luck on finding a brake or compensator, like I said there must be one out there because of the federal AWB days

Mossy Man
06-18-2012, 8:45 PM
There is. Mo reaper.

Chaos47
06-18-2012, 9:01 PM
There is. Mo reaper.
There you go, that one looks good to go!
Thanks Mossy Man, sorry I missed your post above about it.

kendog4570
06-18-2012, 9:36 PM
I apologize if this has been asked before. I have a Mini 14 and will soon have two. I had my 1982 vintage Mini 14 at the range Saturday and really enjoyed shooting it. The muzzle blast was pretty sensational. I had forgotten what a .223 rifle muzzle blast looks like without a flash suppressor.

Is there any practical way to "bullet button" a Mini 14 so that you could then legally attach a flash suppressor? I have never seen this done, and candidly I am not sure that I would actually do it, since it is nice to be able to drop a magazine without any use of a "tool" e.g. a round. Has anyone done this or seen this?

Here are some Pics of one I did for a fellow Calgunner last year. Cut barrel to 16-1/4", target crown, move front sight back, and thread 1/2"-28 tpi.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww211/kendog4570/Mini14BrakeandSightMod012.jpg

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww211/kendog4570/Mini14BrakeandSightMod011.jpg

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww211/kendog4570/Mini14BrakeandSightMod003.jpg

JavaBrewer
06-19-2012, 11:05 AM
Calguns member Seesm sells a Mini-14 BB that is well thought out and clean. I had concerns about my Mini-14 but after reading days worth of info and talking to my PPT decided my brake is actually brake and not a FH. I carry multiple docs (including manufacturer) stating the same in the rife bag just in case.

Shooting 5.56 results in marvelous fireballs :)

http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii525/JavaBrewer/Choate1.jpg