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Knockoutz
06-17-2012, 7:20 PM
I am completely new to ak47's. I have been doing research for about a month and I am still feeling a bit overwhelmed and really need some input from experts.

I was wondering if this ak47 is worth it? (cost and quality)
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct655.aspx


Or is it better if I bought a regular saiga (non arsenal line and sporterized) and have it converted to a regular wood ak kit Or is it worth the double price to just buy an arsenal SGL21/SGL23 (or any other ak47 specific model) and change the furniture?


Some background information and what I am focusing on:
-The purpose I want the ak47 is just regular plinking shooting.
-Caliber I will be looking at will be the 7.62x39mm
-And basically really good Reliability and Durability
-Keeping it in the Russian ak47s category (Not interested in bulg, yugos, -roman, etc. thanks for refering though.)
-I know that the Vepr ak47 is great, but I am saving that up later for a .308 caliber.
-I will choose the stamped receiver over milled. (not really in that budget area)
-Price wise I don't mind as much.

Munny$hot
06-17-2012, 7:36 PM
If you have the funds I would buy Russian...

zfields
06-17-2012, 7:38 PM
Convert a saiga.

Knockoutz
06-17-2012, 9:41 PM
If you have the funds I would buy Russian...

i have the funds to buy russian. isn't a saiga a russian ak though? or is there any other ak's other than saiga, arsenal saiga, and veprs (even though veprs have rpk receivers)?

Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese
06-17-2012, 10:00 PM
Almost anything built around a saiga will be good

S470FM
06-17-2012, 10:30 PM
the closest you'll get to an actual Russian/Soviet AKM would be if you bought a 1969 AKM parts kit from Rguns and got a Romi barrel and receiver from 74ullc.com. anything else is going to be a converted Saiga. A lot of AK purists will tell you that converted Saiga's aren't true AKs but are variants instead, but at the end of the day, it just depends on what you want out of a rifle.

If it's just for plinking and if it's your first, i'd recommend a (gasp) WASR with a double stack mag well.

Jason P
06-17-2012, 10:34 PM
Dude, I love my converted Saiga, seriously:) It's outstanding!

orangeusa
06-17-2012, 10:37 PM
Buy a stock Saiga, shoot it - a lot.

.

The Right to Bear Arms
06-17-2012, 11:04 PM
Dude, I love my converted Saiga, seriously:) It's outstanding!

Knockoutz, I second the above. My preference is to purchase the rifle with the conversion done.

Enjoy it. Train with it.

Legasat
06-17-2012, 11:08 PM
Here is one already converted for you in Orange County

Riflegear (http://www.riflegear.com/p-1645-saiga-akm-style-converted-rifle-762x39.aspx)

Knockoutz
06-17-2012, 11:09 PM
the closest you'll get to an actual Russian/Soviet AKM would be if you bought a 1969 AKM parts kit from Rguns and got a Romi barrel and receiver from 74ullc.com. anything else is going to be a converted Saiga. A lot of AK purists will tell you that converted Saiga's aren't true AKs but are variants instead, but at the end of the day, it just depends on what you want out of a rifle.
.

Thanks for this info. don't think I'll get the chance to get an actual Russian/Soviet AKM. The variants are good enough for me and I think around my budget range.

Green Is BS
06-18-2012, 6:57 AM
I am a newbie like you. I was facing the same question a year ago. I bought a Saiga 21-61. Personally, I went with 7.62x39 because of penetration capability versus cost per round. 21-61 is highly effective as a fighting rifle while remaining cost effective to learn on. I am very happy with my purchase. A WASR10 is an alternative, if you don't have the money. I think the difference is like $400 wasr10 to $1500 for the Arsenal. Rifle Dynamics built my weapon. I felt it was worth the money/time. It's lighter and shorter than a normal 21-61. You shouldnt be concerned about the "purity" of the AK. Concern yourself with purchasing th best foundation/platform you will grow/learn with. I'm new to guns and thes forums but that advice seems common sense to me. Buy what youll enjoy and want to use.

I recently read a flyer by AppleSeedInfo.org at Cabot Gun Range in Castro Valley that spoke about "the rifleman's quarter-mile", that a rifleman should be able to hit a man sized target at 500 yards. I believe Saiga can accomplish this. An AR platform might be more accurate for these purposes but the AK is visually intimidating (and has less moving parts for a SHTF situation). I equate it to the same intimidation factor as the universal recognizable of a 12 gauge being racked. If my AK spooks someone enough, I might never have to fire. I'd prefer that.

So other things i'd also look into:

-a Tapco G2 trigger kit because I don't like the two stage rough pull of the Saiga. Be careful what you upgrade because you need to stay compliant with 922r.
-Get 30 round Circle10 Bulgarian magazines and KVar 10 round mags for range plinking.
-I'd look into changing the iron sights to something like the Tech-Sights but you need a new dust cover (not a fan of the bulge by safety that near slices my hand). (http://www.tech-sights.com/ak.htm)

.... And when your eye drifts to Slide Fire Solution's SSAK47, know that this thing can get you in trouble. I think it's worth owning one*, just never use it and never talk about it.

CSACANNONEER
06-18-2012, 7:04 AM
If you want a plinker, why do you feel the need for a "Russian" one? You do understand that no more than 10 imported parts (including 3 parts in the magazine) can be used to build or import an AK into the US. So, no matter what, you can not get a true Russian AK in the US unless, you find a pre 922(r) example and pay a large premium for it. If you truely feel the need for a Russian made receiver, a converted Saiga is your best choice. However, due to Arsenal's long history of being proactively anti Ca 2A, I would never suggest supporting them by buying their products. If you do not want to convert one yourself, contact sjgunguy24. He will do a better job than Arsenal will and give you exactly the legal configuration that you want.

Personally, I prefer manufacturing my own AKs or buying WASRs.

dbo31
06-18-2012, 7:42 AM
I recently(a few weeks ago) picked up an SGL21. Its my third AK and my favorite already. Its a great platform if you've got the money and don't care about the politics. Or just convert one if you've got the time and want to gain the experience. I've never heard many complaints about the Saiga platform and now I know why.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/dgaspard/Khyber.jpg

I changed out the hand guards to red wood and put on a fixed Krink stock for about $80.

S470FM
06-18-2012, 7:52 AM
Green, even possession of a slide fire stock in CA is illegal--don't buy one unless you're looking at losing your gun rights.

Green Is BS
06-18-2012, 7:59 AM
Green, even possession of a slide fire stock in CA is illegal--don't buy one unless you're looking at losing your gun rights.

Absolutely. I agree 110%. Move away from CA to a different state where it is legal and then own one.

luchador768
06-18-2012, 9:34 AM
I have 2 WASR's, a Tantal, and an SGL31-94. If you blindfolded me I couldn't tell you the difference between the three guns, besides the recoil on the 7.62x39 guns. An AK is an AK, buy way looks good to you, and is in your budget.

Knockoutz
06-18-2012, 9:26 PM
If you want a plinker, why do you feel the need for a "Russian" one? You do understand that no more than 10 imported parts (including 3 parts in the magazine) can be used to build or import an AK into the US. So, no matter what, you can not get a true Russian AK in the US unless, you find a pre 922(r) example and pay a large premium for it. If you truely feel the need for a Russian made receiver, a converted Saiga is your best choice. However, due to Arsenal's long history of being proactively anti Ca 2A, I would never suggest supporting them by buying their products. If you do not want to convert one yourself, contact sjgunguy24. He will do a better job than Arsenal will and give you exactly the legal configuration that you want.

Personally, I prefer manufacturing my own AKs or buying WASRs.

it's not really a NEED. it's more as my preference and something I wanted as my First Ak. Thanks tho. so far I'm leaning towards converting a saiga myself.

What exactly is the benefit of buying from Arsenal tho? is it ONLY a converted saiga professionally built up to an ak47 and the finish looks cleaner? Or does it make the saiga shoot more accurate/more durable?

BucDan
06-18-2012, 9:29 PM
it's not really a NEED. it's more as my preference and something I wanted as my First Ak. Thanks tho. so far I'm leaning towards converting a saiga myself.

What exactly is the benefit of buying from Arsenal tho? is it ONLY a converted saiga professionally built up to an ak47 and the finish looks cleaner? Or does it make the saiga shoot more accurate/more durable?

It's converted "Professionally". Everything is fairly easy, just that the only problem you may have is threading the barrel and welding the old axis holes and stock hole forcing you to sand down and refinish, unless you want to use hole plugs.

CSACANNONEER
06-19-2012, 4:29 PM
There is one thing that should be pointed out. You can not legally get a new Russian made AK in the US. ALL the comercially done Saiga conversions are done by 07FFLs who are reMANUFACTURING an imported gun into a configuration which would not be legal to import. These guns are legally and technically manufactured in the USA. Sure, they may have imported parts (including receivers which have been reworked) but, that does not make them "Russian made".

The benefit to buying an Arsenal conversion is that you will forever know that you gave your hard earned money to a company with a long history of actively keeping their firearms from being imported into California. They have definately kept more firearms from coming into Ca than the Brady campaign, Boxer, Fienstien, the VPC and all other anti 2A people and groups combined. If you're OK with supporting a bussiness with that kind of history...... well, I better bite my tongue here. let's just say that I'd rather see you're money go to the Brady Bunch than to Arsenal. It would do less harm to California's gun rights that way.

Again, if you want a converted Saiga or an AK parts kit profesionally built, contact SJgunguy24. His work is some of the best I've seen.