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View Full Version : Question for the M1A owners with rifle scopes.


Lexustech48
06-17-2012, 12:03 PM
Hi guys, question for the M1A owners here. For those of you running full rifle scopes mounted over the receiver, do you have issues with spent brass ejection?

Does the brass normally eject upward or does it eject to the side with no scope mounted? Does the scope mount help deflect the brass to the side?

Thinking about a future .308WIN rifle. Torn between an AR-10 style and an M1A, never had a chance to fire either so im trying to learn as much as I can before I try and find some to (hopefully) rent and make a final decision.

:D

cfusionpm
06-17-2012, 12:16 PM
Ejects fine and Will spit brass mostly straight to the side. Sometimes downward if it hits the top and will ding up the mount a bit. The brass will bounce off the top and ding the op rod or stock as well. Not a big issue, and purely cosmetic. I've since taken the mount off and just shoot it with irons now. I used a Sadlak Alluminum mount. I should mention that while it did clang around a bit, I never had a jam or have a casing get stuck.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9810/img0054i.jpg

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7638/img0056mdi.jpg

Look at it like this, too. With an AR-10, you will likely need a bullet button or other mag lock. M1A is not just a piece of American history, but it's a featureless rifle by default. Which means normal mag release and 20 rounds mags. Provided of course you had them pre-ban.

RT13
06-17-2012, 1:00 PM
I use the Bassett Machine Low rail mount and have never had an issue. And I always remove the mount with the scope when cleaning and it always retains zero. I've tried quite a few different brands of ammo from .308-7.62 x51 and have never encountered a problem. Btw, I own both types of .308, a Sig 716 and M1A. I love both and both have their pros n cons. But if I could only choose one and living in Commiefornia, I would choose the M1A.

Hamstur
06-17-2012, 1:16 PM
Have never had a single jam with my SEI mount.

Without a rail, the M1As I have used shoot brass at about 2 to 3 o'clock at a low angle.

bcrich
06-17-2012, 2:41 PM
I've got an ARMS mount on my SuperMatch and is the lowest mount you can get and out of maybe 1k rounds I think I had a jam maybe 2 times from brass not clearing the mount. During comps I shoot better with my 308 AR.

Crazed_SS
06-17-2012, 3:28 PM
I have the Springfield 3rd Gen mount. Most people hate this mount, but it's worked out pretty well for me. I dont have any issues..
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee298/crazed1x/gats/IMG_0932.jpg

Hoop
06-17-2012, 3:53 PM
Biggest issues with scoping an M1A is the cheekweld.

odysseus
06-17-2012, 4:20 PM
Sadlak for me has been fine without issue on ejection thus far.

I have read of issues with the ARMS mount, possibly being it is also the lowest on height. What I have seen online has prevented me from buying one of those for another build, though in theory I like - but the possibility of an ejection issue in binding up spent brass is big problem for me.

Biggest issues with scoping an M1A is the cheekweld.

Using the standard stock, it is without a riser pad. However also a lot of us are not scoping these with standard stocks.

strongpoint
06-17-2012, 6:05 PM
zero ejection problems with a bassett standard low high mount. an adjustable stock riser from karsten (http://karstenskydexcheekrest.com/) fixes the cheek weld problem.

Divernhunter
06-17-2012, 9:10 PM
No problems here and I can use 20 round mags with no button.

hoss_hk
06-17-2012, 9:35 PM
+3 no probs with Bassett low mount. Using a TacPro stock riser.

thai562
06-17-2012, 9:47 PM
I have both ARMS and Sadlak mounts, they work perfectly fine, no ejecting problem. If you do run into that problem, most people just replace the ejector, and ejector spring with USGI parts this will fix your problem.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
06-18-2012, 1:19 AM
My scope is mounted on an older ARMS #18 split rail, and the bottom of the scope has taken a couple of hits from empty brass. My bolt is a TRW, unknown if the ejector and ejector spring are GI or commercial.

H2O MAN
06-18-2012, 4:45 AM
Have never had a single jam with my SEI mount.

Without a rail, the M1As I have used shoot brass at about 2 to 3 o'clock at a low angle.


+1

No ejection problems what so ever with any of my SEI mounts.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/M14-EBR-RINM-SEI.i.JPG

killathrilla
06-18-2012, 6:14 AM
...

Lexustech48
06-18-2012, 7:33 AM
Thanks for all the replies guys. Gives me some great direction about which way to go. Of course Id love to have BOTH an M1A AND a .308 AR. Decisions decisions!

H2O MAN
06-18-2012, 9:35 AM
Of course Id love to have BOTH an M1A AND a .308 AR. Decisions decisions!

I owned both, but sold the .308 AR in favor of building more M14s :)

smoothy8500
06-18-2012, 7:24 PM
Those of you using a Bassett standard low mount (strongpoint, hoss hk), what rings do you use? I have a NM hooded sight and it appears that the medium mounts may not allow the occular lense to clear.

Pryde
06-18-2012, 7:44 PM
A 308 AR is going to be a much better optics platform than an M1A.
Many M1A users have had problems with shifting zero on most common M1A mounts and it is very difficult get get proper optic elevation and eye relief without buying a expensive chassis system (factor the cost of this into your purchase) for the M1A.

For the most part it is a comfort issue. An AR platform with an optic is going to be far much more comfortable to get behind and shoot than any M1A.

Lexustech48
06-18-2012, 7:57 PM
@H20 MAN: In your opinion, are the M1A/M14 riles that much better than the .308 AR? If so in what way? Reliability; accuracy?

@pryde: I figured that a chassis based off of (essentially) an M1 Garand style stock would have its limitations. Ive seen what the SEALs and Army guys are playing with (the m39s and EBRs and such). A few of em look like they can be acquired at Fulton Armory.

dfletcher
06-18-2012, 8:10 PM
I have an ARMS 18 and have had problems, although it's a combination of the mount and rings. About once every 50 rounds the case would be pinched between the op rod and the forward ring base where it attaches to the scope mount. I cured the problem by switching out the rings and by moving it back a bit.

renardsubtil
06-18-2012, 10:11 PM
You can kind of see how much my scope goes over the receiver below, it seems like quite a bit but I had no issues with spent brass hitting my Leupold IER scout scope...and this is with an Ultimak rail on a Standard M1A.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff127/subti7/Insurance%20stuff/e1e99b28.jpg

hoss_hk
06-18-2012, 10:33 PM
Those of you using a Bassett standard low mount (strongpoint, hoss hk), what rings do you use? I have a NM hooded sight and it appears that the medium mounts may not allow the occular lense to clear.

I am using 30 mm Burris XTR low rings. Right now is a 5-20x50 SS HD (previous was a Bushnell 10x40 with 1" Burris XTR low). I don't know how much higher your NM hood sticks up or what scope you are going to use. I can easily stick 2 pennies (too lazy to get the calipers out) between the top of the normal sight cranked all the way down and the adjustment ring on the scope.
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y370/hossdk/DSC00771.jpg

slopoke
06-19-2012, 1:07 AM
I have a few with the Bassett Machine high Picatinny mounts and those M1As throw the brass approx at the two oclock direction. I like the high because you retain the use of the iron sights. I have two Sadlak steel mounts to be mounted on two builds so I can't comment yet on those. As far as rings go, I like the TPS rings.

H2O MAN
06-19-2012, 4:43 AM
@H20 MAN: In your opinion, are the M1A/M14 riles that much better than the .308 AR? If so in what way? Reliability; accuracy?

'Better' is subjective... I just prefer the robust M14, especially in EBR form.

That said, the M14s reliability is legendary and the TACOM M14EBR-RI (http://smithenterpriseinc.blogspot.com/2011/07/eric-poole-writes-article-about-m14-ebr.html) has proven that < MOA battlefield accuracy without any special upkeep is easy to achieve.

Lexustech48
06-19-2012, 6:55 PM
My eyes have been opened H20 MAN.... Did a WHOLE bunch of research last night. My first .308 rifle will be a MK14 type rifle. May take me a while, but WOW that thing looks amazing, can be mounted back in a traditional stock AND is accurate as anything out there.


thats seriously legit!

strongpoint
06-19-2012, 7:58 PM
Those of you using a Bassett standard low mount (strongpoint, hoss hk), what rings do you use? I have a NM hooded sight and it appears that the medium mounts may not allow the occular lense to clear.

mine is a high mount, not low -- i had that wrong. i use the weaver rings that bassett recommends here (http://bassettmachine.com/prod_smhi.htm) for proper centering of the scope; the offset rings push the scope back a little closer to my eye for ergonomics. between the rings and the high mount, there would be plenty of room for a NM rear sight.


A 308 AR is going to be a much better optics platform than an M1A.
Many M1A users have had problems with shifting zero on most common M1A mounts and it is very difficult get get proper optic elevation and eye relief without buying a expensive chassis system (factor the cost of this into your purchase) for the M1A.

For the most part it is a comfort issue. An AR platform with an optic is going to be far much more comfortable to get behind and shoot than any M1A.

nothing personal, but this strikes me as bordering on malarkey. i don't think i've ever seen a complaint about shifting zero from anyone using any of the three most popular aftermarket mounts (smith, sadlak and bassett, in no particular order) with a halfway decent scope and rings.

also, i don't know what kind of "optic elevation and eye relief" issue you think requires a chassis to fix. my scope sits on a bassett mount, and i installed an adjustable riser on my factory synthetic stock. the whole setup is ergonomic and rock solid.

weber_2
06-19-2012, 8:24 PM
Heres my "Expensive chassis system"
http://i.imgur.com/M2g3P.jpg

$12 camo wrap fixes all cheek weld/eye relief issues.

And yes the M1A is "better" then any 308 AR

Pryde
06-19-2012, 9:13 PM
The M1A koolaid is strong here.
You fellas do realize that all civilian service rifle comps are dominated by AR platforms despite the option to use the M14. Also, last years international military sniper comp was dominated by 308 ARs and bolt rifles.

I've read all the brochures and propaganda from TACOM and SEI, but its kind of strange, when performance matters and people at a high skill level get to choose their own gear they always seem to pick an AR derivative.......

But let's not let facts get in the way of emotions now.

cfusionpm
06-19-2012, 9:39 PM
The M1A koolaid is strong here.
You fellas do realize that all civilian service rifle comps are dominated by AR platforms despite the option to use the M14. Also, last years international military sniper comp was dominated by 308 ARs and bolt rifles.

I've read all the brochures and propaganda from TACOM and SEI, but its kind of strange, when performance matters and people at a high skill level get to choose their own gear they always seem to pick an AR derivative.......

But let's not let facts get in the way of emotions now.

I'm sure M1As can be made accurate, but my M1A Scout only shoots about ~3 MOA tops in my fists of ham, which is enough to ding steel out to about 400. However, it puts a bigger smile on my face than anything else I own, including an AR and .308 bolt. I love the sound and feel of that op rod slaming back and forth and it gives me a feeling of American history. AR feels lifeless and technical; a tool with no soul. At least that's my thoughts. Wouldn't trade mine for anything... 'cept maybe another M1A.

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5200/img93782b.jpg

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6310/img0049hb.jpg

strongpoint
06-19-2012, 9:41 PM
The M1A koolaid is strong here.
You fellas do realize that all civilian service rifle comps are dominated by AR platforms despite the option to use the M14. Also, last years international military sniper comp was dominated by 308 ARs and bolt rifles.

I've read all the brochures and propaganda from TACOM and SEI, but its kind of strange, when performance matters and people at a high skill level get to choose their own gear they always seem to pick an AR derivative.......

But let's not let facts get in the way of emotions now.

well, now you're talking about two different things. the popularity of AR-pattern rifles in competition could derive from any of a number of things: price, ease of building, ability to customize, an inherent accuracy advantage ... i don't compete at a high level or follow those who do, so i don't know what the reason is.

but that's not what you said earlier; you said

Many M1A users have had problems with shifting zero on most common M1A mounts

and

it is very difficult get get proper optic elevation and eye relief without buying a expensive chassis system (factor the cost of this into your purchase) for the M1A.

and

For the most part it is a comfort issue. An AR platform with an optic is going to be far much more comfortable to get behind and shoot than any M1A.

and i replied not with emotion, but with an assertion that none of those things have been true in either my experience or my observation.

so give it up with the "koolaid" nonsense. besides, i love my AR, too.

Pryde
06-19-2012, 9:55 PM
snip

Fair enough,

My assertion about the shifting mount was in reference to the springfield mount which is what I thought was the most commonly used scope mount.

My assertion about having proper eye relief is just nature to the system, the rear scope ring cannot sit back further than the rear iron sight. With that being inherent to the design, you are going to have at least 3-4" of eye relief with a standard GI stock. Most modern variable powered tactical optics are going to have optimum eye relief in the range of 1.5-2 inches.

Unless you are shooting standing bladed stance, prone 45 degrees offset or from a bench leaning forward, you are not going to get a proper sight picture with an optic. You cannot assume the proper straight aligned prone position using the standard GI stock.

As far as proper elevation, you said it youself that an adjustable riser is used to get proper sight height. Using a riser is going to cause the rifle to sit lower in your shoulder pocket than what is optimal. Again, comfort issue.

A chassis system like the SEI EBR solves both of these issues (adjustable stock length and built in riser) but it also adds a lot of weight to the system and it is expensive.

Satisfied?

Grumpyoldretiredcop
06-19-2012, 9:56 PM
Every system has a hater... and it looks like we've found the official M1A hater. You're probably wasting your time, strongpoint. Pryde doesn't even know that mounts other than the SA don't shift, nor does he seem to be aware that a simple cheek rest is all that's needed to address scope height.

Current military users in the Middle East seem to be putting the M21 system to good use despite the issues that Pryde finds so objectionable. Other posters in this thread have spoken from their first hand experience with the system. I'd depend on their experience rather than Pryde's assertions, which do not appear to be based on actual use of the system.

gao1976
06-19-2012, 10:08 PM
Biggest issues with scoping an M1A is the cheekweld.

Wat cheek, it's like a mile away from the stock , lol.

Pryde
06-19-2012, 11:02 PM
Every system has a hater... and it looks like we've found the official M1A hater. You're probably wasting your time, strongpoint. Pryde doesn't even know that mounts other than the SA don't shift, nor does he seem to be aware that a simple cheek rest is all that's needed to address scope height.

Current military users in the Middle East seem to be putting the M21 system to good use despite the issues that Pryde finds so objectionable. Other posters in this thread have spoken from their first hand experience with the system. I'd depend on their experience rather than Pryde's assertions, which do not appear to be based on actual use of the system.

Sorry if I hit a nerve but I would think someone like you would be more mature than to make personal attacks calling me a hater just because I don't agree that the M1A is a good precision platform.

If you had bothered to read my previous post you would see I addressed why the cheekrest is a sub-optimal solution.

If you want some opinions from actual military and LE users of the system, you can check this thread. Spoiler: The reviews are not at all favorable.
http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4706084761/m/71220656663

Lexustech48
06-20-2012, 12:53 AM
I personally think opinions of both sides (in any discussion) is a good thing. For the truth may never truly be revealed if only one side is told. :D

I think that it IS telling that so many EBR's and EMR's are being fielded now. I suppose it is a good testament to the power of the .308Win and awesomeness of the M-14 (and ultimately the M1 Garand). I love my Smithy M&P 15 and her 5.56 chamber (getting to know her has been VERY fun). Different cartridges for different applications.

Personally as firearm enthusiasts I think we should be able to appreciate all forms of firearms. Some may not be our cup of tea as others might be but they have the same purpose: To defend us, to liberate us, to bring us joy, give us peace of mind. Be it muzzle load or minigun and everything in between they ALL kick ***!

I want an M14 variant rifle to sit right next to a DPMS LR-308, right next to a Colt AR, which will all be right next to my Smithy M&P15 and my Mossy 500. Topped off with a few Smithy .357 and .44 Magnum revolvers and a Colt 1911. :D :D :D All in due time! And some AKs...... definitely want a few AKs... hehehe

H2O MAN
06-20-2012, 3:58 AM
My eyes have been opened H20 MAN.... Did a WHOLE bunch of research last night. My first .308 rifle will be a MK14 type rifle. May take me a while, but WOW that thing looks amazing, can be mounted back in a traditional stock AND is accurate as anything out there.


thats seriously legit!


Excellent!

Nothing in the M1A/M14 world comes cheap, but there are ways to
stretch your dollars... let me know if I can help with your future build.



Examples of optics and how I mounted them to the rifle.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/CQB-16-EBR-1.JPG

http://www.athenswater.com/images/MK14SEI-L.JPG







As for pryde, this is all I see This user is on your Ignore List.

strongpoint
06-20-2012, 7:35 PM
Satisfied?

as a matter of fact, i am -- now your point has some meat on its bones.

problem is, none of the issues you cite seem to affect how i use my M1A. the scope is set up with proper eye relief (keeping in mind that this leupold VX-II requires more like 3.5" to 4"; i expect this is not the best optic this rifle will ever carry). i can take a perfectly acceptable prone position; the rifle sits on a line parallel to my right leg. the riser doesn't affect the ergonomics of my shooting stance; the rifle butt fits comfortably into my shoulder in either position.

i'm not saying that none of the things you cite are valid. i'm just saying that none of them seem to affect me. YMMV, and apparently it does.

INFAMOUS762X39
06-21-2012, 6:43 PM
Hi guys, question for the M1A owners here. For those of you running full rifle scopes mounted over the receiver, do you have issues with spent brass ejection?

Does the brass normally eject upward or does it eject to the side with no scope mounted? Does the scope mount help deflect the brass to the side?

Thinking about a future .308WIN rifle. Torn between an AR-10 style and an M1A, never had a chance to fire either so im trying to learn as much as I can before I try and find some to (hopefully) rent and make a final decision.

:D

I've shot my buddy's LWRC Reaper, it was jam-o-matic so he sold it and Bought a LMT .308 w/NightForce. Extremely accurate but Kicks much more violently than M1A, in my opinion it was very uncomfortable for me.


I previously never shot a M1A before, so I bought one to do so!

I love my new M1A Loaded, more accurate than you'll ever be, super fun to handle/shoot, all in all it's a head turner.

I am currently doing my homework on what mount/scope to purchase. I predict it's going to be as much as the rifle :rolleyes: