View Full Version : FUD Check
Recently, while at the local range, while I'm unlocking my range bag, the guy next to me notices that my ammo is in the same compartment as my unloaded handgun. He comes over to tell me that I'm breaking the law and that ammo cannot be in stored in the same compartment as a firearm. I say thanks, yet, this guy won't let up. He's not being an a**hole, but he starts going on about how's he's a firearms instructor and it's against CA law. Finally, I say something like "well, there won't be any ammo left when I leave so I should be OK" and then turn around.
Now, everything I've read on Calguns says otherwise - that storing ammo and firearms in the same locked case is OK, so long as it's not in the gun itself. And, normally I would ignore unsolicited advice from strangers. It's just that this guy was popping off his credentials and was so insistent.
So, for the last time ever to be asked on Calguns :D, what's the answer? Also, for bonus points, what's the statute so the next time someone comes up I can reference it?
Thanks in advance.
Ubermcoupe
06-15-2012, 7:07 PM
:fud: Ammo can be next to your gun in the same locked compartment.
I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?
California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.
If you have additional questions, contact the California Department of Justice at 916-227-3703.
From the CHP website:
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html
Librarian
06-15-2012, 7:30 PM
Also, for bonus points, what's the statute so the next time someone comes up I can reference it?There is no statute governing the transport of ammunition.
The only issue is 'is the gun loaded?'. For that explanation, see the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Defining_loaded_in_California
Arkangel
06-15-2012, 8:10 PM
As said before.... FUD.
That's the scary part of FUD, most of the time its being spewed by people who you would think would know better.
edwardm
06-15-2012, 8:10 PM
Recently, while at the local range, while I'm unlocking my range bag, the guy next to me notices that my ammo is in the same compartment as my unloaded handgun. He comes over to tell me that I'm breaking the law and that ammo cannot be in stored in the same compartment as a firearm. I say thanks, yet, this guy won't let up. He's not being an a**hole, but he starts going on about how's he's a firearms instructor and it's against CA law. Finally, I say something like "well, there won't be any ammo left when I leave so I should be OK" and then turn around.
Now, everything I've read on Calguns says otherwise - that storing ammo and firearms in the same locked case is OK, so long as it's not in the gun itself. And, normally I would ignore unsolicited advice from strangers. It's just that this guy was popping off his credentials and was so insistent.
So, for the last time ever to be asked on Calguns :D, what's the answer? Also, for bonus points, what's the statute so the next time someone comes up I can reference it?
Thanks in advance.
It's not a question of statute allowing you. If a statute does not forbid something, then it us, under our 235+ year old system of governance, legal (generally).
Mr. Instructor is a douchebag. Seek to educate him. Credentials are meaningless. I deal with attorneys that "know" gun law, and in reality could not hump their way out of a brothel.
If the firearm is not loaded (see People v Clark for the relevant definition) you are in the clear.
Aside: FUD people really peeve me.
paul0660
06-15-2012, 8:14 PM
I deal with attorneys that "know" gun law, and in reality could not hump their way out of a brothel.
Post of the week. If you don't know more than your counsel regardless of the issue, you are screwed. I have met few attorneys who admit lack of knowledge. Those that have, I employ.
hermosabeach
06-15-2012, 8:41 PM
How to reply to the range ninja masters
My standard reply is to be overly thankful
Wow. I appreciate your concern. I keep them unloaded and legal when i leave
Thanks for stopping by!!!
The firing line and or in public is too public for a meaningful discussion
huntercf
06-15-2012, 9:16 PM
He really doesn't know the laws, you can transport ammo in the same case as your firearms when you check them on a flight which is a little more restrictive than transporting in your vehicle.
As Bill Engvall says "Here's your sign".
Don the savage
06-15-2012, 9:53 PM
He must work at turners
So many people spew this lie that it just becomes accepted. I can't stand it when someone knows so much, teaches others about shooting, and when you ask them which penal code says you can't carry ammo in the same bag as the gun they give you one of those, "What's a penal code? I'm just saying it's illegal, I don't care what the penal code says." Sadly, this is usually the response I get.
I've gotten so tired of arguing the point that I usually just bet them a thousand dollars on the spot that there's no law against it and see if they take it. Only one has so far, but apparently his word doesn't mean much.
dedub
06-15-2012, 10:20 PM
Thanks for the feedback (and the chuckles). I guess I was second guessing myself since this guy said he made a living firearms training.
alfred1222
06-15-2012, 11:12 PM
He must work at turners
Hahahahaha
kblack583
06-16-2012, 6:41 AM
Ive run into this twice at gunshops over the past few weeks. Its always a cop friend or customer hwo has told them this
I just tell them to look at the CHP website now.
anymoose
06-16-2012, 7:07 AM
Ive run into this twice at gunshops over the past few weeks. Its always a cop friend or customer hwo has told them this
I just tell them to look at the CHP website now.
i overheard an employee at a gun store tell a customer that it was illegal to transport guns and ammo in the same bag, i chimed in and corrected him, so he brought out his HSC answer sheet because he knew the question and answer were on the HSC. He looked over the sheet for a while, then told me its still a bad idea because you could find a cop in a bad mood who would have some issues with it. the customers agreed that it was a bad idea to make a cop in a mad mood upset, and that they shouldnt transport firearms and ammo in the same case.
:facepalm:
CSACANNONEER
06-16-2012, 7:10 AM
Next time ask for his business card. AFTER he gives it to you say "Thanks, now I know who not to recommend since, you don't know what you are talking about." Then, come here and post his name and the name of his business so that we all know that he doesn't have a clue.
E Pluribus Unum
06-16-2012, 7:21 AM
It amazes me at how many gun store/range employees, and LEOS, that are full of FUD.... I gave up trying to educate them, because after all, they know everything....
huntercf
06-16-2012, 7:49 AM
It amazes me at how many gun store/range employees, and LEOS, that are full of FUD.... I gave up trying to educate them, because after all, they know everything....
IMO it is not amazing at all, CA has so many gun laws and restrictions plus with the added silence of the DOJ and ever changing underground regulation by the AG it is almost impossible for anyone to know about all the laws (unless you are Gene and a few others on CG).
MrExel17
06-16-2012, 7:55 AM
WOW, a firearms instructor too weaksauce, wonder why peeps that are involved in hadnleing ,selling,etc.. dont read up on things like this to have solid info. Rather than saying pigs can fly.
E Pluribus Unum
06-16-2012, 12:37 PM
IMO it is not amazing at all, CA has so many gun laws and restrictions plus with the added silence of the DOJ and ever changing underground regulation by the AG it is almost impossible for anyone to know about all the laws (unless you are Gene and a few others on CG).
People that are charged with educating the public (firearms INSTRUCTORS, GUN shop employees...et cetera), and those that are sworn to enforce the law... OWE it to the people they serve to know the basics. How to legally transport a firearm is as basic as one can get; there is NO excuse for anyone in those positions to be ignorant.
In My not so Humble Opinion... ;)
Next time ask for his business card. AFTER he gives it to you say "Thanks, now I know who not to recommend since, you don't know what you are talking about." Then, come here and post his name and the name of his business so that we all know that he doesn't have a clue.
This right here.
jlbflyboy172
06-16-2012, 1:19 PM
Next time ask for his business card. AFTER he gives it to you say "Thanks, now I know who not to recommend since, you don't know what you are talking about." Then, come here and post his name and the name of his business so that we all know that he doesn't have a clue.
I like this approach. I will do this next time I hear that FUD. This and/or print out the CHP web site stuff and keep it in my range bag and make the $1000 dollar bet. That should shut them up!
OR, you could spread More FUD by telling him ur retired military or le and ur exempted from ALL of kommiforniakingdom Laws. U can have fullauto no bb and can buy hi caps. BUT you cant own suppressors. The only reason why ur guns arent fullauto is becuz u choose not to go thru the very very extensive paper work, got a get a lawyer and pay the yearly $10k renewal fees.
I get a kick out of people that talks fud to me. I would talk fud right back.
JDPhx501
06-16-2012, 3:52 PM
People that are charged with educating the public (firearms INSTRUCTORS, GUN shop employees...et cetera), and those that are sworn to enforce the law... OWE it to the people they serve to know the basics. How to legally transport a firearm is as basic as one can get; there is NO excuse for anyone in those positions to be ignorant.
In My not so Humble Opinion... ;)
Exactly.
CaliforniaLiberal
06-16-2012, 3:59 PM
This ammo carried with unloaded handgun comes up a lot here. Cops, NRA instructors, gun shop staff, FFLs. Many thousands of Californians believe it.
Here's the question on a CHP FAQ
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html#05
Mr.1904
06-17-2012, 10:00 AM
I had someone tell me at a pistol course yesterday that having loaded mags is having a loaded weapon
Just smile and nod.
Me - "Man, i really don't feel like gearing down and getting food, i might just hit up a drivethru somewhere."
Him - "Do you have a CCW?"
Me - "No? I'm not taking the pistol with me."
Him - "A loaded mag is considered a loaded weapon in CA."
Me - "Ok." :facepalm:
Sniper3142
06-17-2012, 12:54 PM
Next time ask for his business card. AFTER he gives it to you say "Thanks, now I know who not to recommend since, you don't know what you are talking about." Then, come here and post his name and the name of his business so that we all know that he doesn't have a clue.
^THIS is the correct response!!
huntercf
06-17-2012, 5:03 PM
People that are charged with educating the public (firearms INSTRUCTORS, GUN shop employees...et cetera), and those that are sworn to enforce the law... OWE it to the people they serve to know the basics. How to legally transport a firearm is as basic as one can get; there is NO excuse for anyone in those positions to be ignorant.
In My not so Humble Opinion... ;)
I'm not excusing it, just pointing out the reasons why we run into so much FUD so often. Yes they should know and politicians should know what they are talking about when they introduce and vote for a law.
fallenknight308
06-18-2012, 12:12 PM
I have a question.
Where did the "keep your ammo far far away from the firearm" thing originate from?
Was it a law in the past that got changed?
I used to hear this FUD years ago, and always followed it. But I was told by everyone back then that it was indeed law. (all before I had access to the web and this wonderful forum) :)
paul0660
06-18-2012, 12:28 PM
I have a question.
Where did the "keep your ammo far far away from the firearm" thing originate from?
Was it a law in the past that got changed?
I used to hear this FUD years ago, and always followed it. But I was told by everyone back then that it was indeed law. (all before I had access to the web and this wonderful forum) :)
If you are carrying a handgun illegally and it is either loaded or ammo is "readily accessible", the penalty is worse. I think that is the source of at least some of that confusion.
anymoose
06-18-2012, 12:35 PM
If you are carrying a handgun illegally and it is either loaded or ammo is "readily accessible", the penalty is worse. I think that is the source of at least some of that confusion.
Illegally also extends to carrying with the intent to commit a felony IIRC. So if your ammo and gun are in the same bag with the gun unloaded and you are in the way to rob a bank, I think that counts as loaded...
People V Clark also helped clear up the loaded / unloaded thing.
anymoose
06-18-2012, 12:41 PM
I have a question.
Where did the "keep your ammo far far away from the firearm" thing originate from?
Was it a law in the past that got changed?
I used to hear this FUD years ago, and always followed it. But I was told by everyone back then that it was indeed law. (all before I had access to the web and this wonderful forum) :)
I guess to answer your question in a different way- it was never illegal to have guns an ammo in close proximity, but it was and is generally illegal to have your gun loaded during transportation . There was confusion about what and what wasn't loaded, and people thought that guns and ammo in the same container were considered loaded, people V Clark cleared up the definition of loaded.
Librarian
06-18-2012, 1:14 PM
I have a question.
Where did the "keep your ammo far far away from the firearm" thing originate from?
Was it a law in the past that got changed?
I used to hear this FUD years ago, and always followed it. But I was told by everyone back then that it was indeed law. (all before I had access to the web and this wonderful forum) :)
If you are carrying a handgun illegally and it is either loaded or ammo is "readily accessible", the penalty is worse. I think that is the source of at least some of that confusion.
I guess to answer your question in a different way- it was never illegal to have guns an ammo in close proximity, but it was and is generally illegal to have your gun loaded during transportation . There was confusion about what and what wasn't loaded, and people thought that guns and ammo in the same container were considered loaded, people V Clark cleared up the definition of loaded.
Those, plus a bit of Penal Code 16840(a) As used in Section 25800, a firearm shall be deemed to
be "loaded" whenever both the firearm and the unexpended
ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in
the immediate possession of the same person.
25800 (a) Every person who carries a loaded firearm with the
intent to commit a felony is guilty of armed criminal action.that seems to have been generalized for no good reason.
E Pluribus Unum
06-18-2012, 4:03 PM
Those, plus a bit of Penal Code that seems to have been generalized for no good reason.
For clarification... the "Gun and ammunition in immediate possession" only applies to people who's intent is to commit a felony while in posession of a firearm.
darksands
06-18-2012, 5:24 PM
Went to the Sheriff range in OC with a deputy friend and they check civilian firearms before they allow it onto the range. I open my case and I had loaded magazines along side the gun. Deputy checking the gun just said it wasn't a good idea even though it was legal.
paul0660
06-18-2012, 5:29 PM
Deputy checking the gun just said it wasn't a good idea even though it was legal.
And they hired him.........probably not a good time to tell that joke.
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