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X231
06-11-2012, 6:35 AM
I just took a trip on Amtrak and thought I'd give a little report. As most know Amtrak's policy on firearms is that they must declared 24 hours in advance and travel in checked luggage. Unfortunately many routes don't have checked luggage.
Last Friday I took Amtrak from Fresno to Santa Ana. I have LTC and really wanted to take my gun but decided to be a "law abiding gun owner" instead. My trip had three legs, Fresno to Bakersfield, Bakersfield to LA, and LA to Santa Ana. I never saw any security until I got to LA. When boarding the train to Santa Ana there was an Amtrak cop with a dog on the platform and then when we departed he came through the train with his dog sniffing luggage. I was glad (at least for the moment;)) that I had left my gun at home.

nocomply25
06-11-2012, 6:57 AM
that could have turned into a crappy trip quickly! good call on leaving it at home!

littlejake
06-11-2012, 7:01 AM
that could have turned into a crappy trip quickly! good call on leaving it at home!

Maybe so, but he shouldn't have to. He's got an LTC. This is another area that needs to be fixed.

gunnerstuff
06-11-2012, 7:05 AM
Pretty sad when a law abiding citizen has to leave legal carry self defense at home in fear of getting caught.

mag360
06-11-2012, 8:16 AM
I don't take amtrak anymore. Too easy to rent a car or fly.

vantec08
06-11-2012, 8:18 AM
Maybe so, but he shouldn't have to. He's got an LTC. This is another area that needs to be fixed.

Hell yes. A simple confirmation of CCW status.

hvengel
06-11-2012, 8:26 AM
... As most know Amtrak's policy on firearms is that they must declared 24 hours in advance and travel in checked luggage. Unfortunately many routes don't have checked luggage...

It appears that this is also an issue that needs to be fixed. If we are required to check baggage in order to exercise a fundamental right then the law should require that checked baggage service is available on every route/line.

Dreaded Claymore
06-11-2012, 9:08 AM
I love riding trains, and we really need more of them in this country, so I like riding Amtrak. I'm glad their rules have gotten better (they used to be "no firearms, GTFO"). They could still use improvement though, on account of the lack of checked baggage in some places.

el chivo
06-11-2012, 12:58 PM
at least they allow it in checked baggage; Greyhound's policy is none at all.

X231
06-11-2012, 8:33 PM
Apparently the gang bangers know Amtrak is a free fire zone.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/06/11/2869077/fresno-gang-member-arrested-after.html

SJgunguy24
06-11-2012, 10:50 PM
When I worked at PRK I always had my carry piece with me, it was locked up and stashed and a couple of times they brought the dogs through. Never an issue.

Arondos
06-11-2012, 11:02 PM
That I know of dogs won't alert on weapons or ammo. Maybe someone with more expertise than me can give a definite answer.

Imagine the fun people would have putting empty fired brass all over their vehicles or in their luggage and then watching the dog have a stroke...

The Original Godfather
06-11-2012, 11:31 PM
I didn't know the hounds go forr ammo.

X231
06-12-2012, 5:47 AM
Imagine the fun people would have putting empty fired brass all over their vehicles or in their luggage and then watching the dog have a stroke...

LOL I never thought of that. That would be funny. I don't know if the dogs alert on ammo or not but I didn't want to chance it.

Shiboleth
06-12-2012, 11:54 AM
I took an Amtrak from Bakersfield to Modesto. It wasn't much of a haste other than the staff at the stations not being familiar with the process, and the limit on ammo weight, I think it was 11lbs. I checked an AK and two pistols. The staff was pleasant enough. The thing I didn't like was having to open the cases at the check in counter in front of everyone in line to show that they were unloaded.

Decoligny
06-12-2012, 12:27 PM
That I know of dogs won't alert on weapons or ammo. Maybe someone with more expertise than me can give a definite answer.

Imagine the fun people would have putting empty fired brass all over their vehicles or in their luggage and then watching the dog have a stroke...

I would go with sprinkling a little bit of ground up cordite rubbed into the fabric in the luggage. They can search, and they won't find anything.

As far as dogs alerting on weapons, it depends upon what the dog was trained to sniff out. They have dogs that are trained specifically as drug dogs. They will not alert on anything but drugs. They have dogs that are trained specifically as explosives dogs, they will not alert on anything but explosives. They have dogs that are trained to alert on a variety of substances, even gun oil. Some even alert differently depending on the type of substance.

"Gun dogs" are becoming more prevelent. One way they are being used is in item location, such as when an armed robbery suspect has tossed a weapon when fleeing. The gun dog can be brought in to locate the gun.

Santa Cruz Arms
06-12-2012, 12:54 PM
Hmmm. I can't remember the last time I was on a train or bus, so I have not thoroughly looked into this. I just spent about 15 minutes doing some quick research. But as far as breaking CRIMINAL law, there seems to be an exemption for LTC holders:

I won't post the entire penal code section.. just the relevant portions:

California Penal Code Section 171.7:


a) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Public transit facility" means any land, building, or
equipment, or any interest therein, including any station on a public
transportation route, to which access is controlled in a manner
consistent with the public transit authority's security plan, whether
or not the operation thereof produces revenue, that has as its
primary purpose the operation of a public transit system or the
providing of services to the passengers of a public transit system. A
public transit system includes the vehicles used in the system,
including, but not limited to, motor vehicles, streetcars, trackless
trolleys, buses, light rail systems, rapid transit systems, subways,
trains, or jitneys, that transport members of the public for hire.
(2) "Sterile area" means any portion of a public transit facility
that is generally controlled in a manner consistent with the public
transit authority's security plan.
(3) "Firearm" has the same meaning as specified in subdivision (a)
of Section 16520.
(b) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly possess within any
sterile area of a public transit facility any of the following, if
the sterile area is posted with a statement providing reasonable
notice that prosecution may result from possession of these items:
(1) Any firearm.
.
.
.
.

(c) (1) Subdivision (b) shall not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
.
.
.
.
(2) Paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) does not apply to or affect a
person who is exempt from the prohibition against carrying a handgun
pursuant to Section 25400 if the carrying of that handgun is in
accordance with the terms and conditions of the exemption specified
in Article 2 (commencing with Section 25450) of Chapter 2 of Division
5 of Title 4 of Part 6 or Sections 25615 to 25655, inclusive.


It looks like there is clearly an exemption for LTC holders in CA.

WIth that said, it would seem to me that it would then fall into the same category as a sign prohibiting firearms on private property. If they found out the could ask you to leave. If you did not, you could be charged with trespassing.

I briefly looked at Amtrak's policy regarding firearms having to be in checked baggage, unloaded, locked, declared; can not be in carry on, etc. At the end of the policy it states:

"Passengers failing to meet the above-mentioned requirements for checking firearms will be denied transportation"

Again, it seems as if their remedy is to deny you boarding or to ask you to leave.

I am not a lawyer and have not researched this fully so don't take the above as correct, but it sure seems like the case. Hopefully someone with some greater knowledge of this can chime in.


.

4DMASTR
06-12-2012, 1:25 PM
I didn't know the hounds go forr ammo.

When I was in High School the drug dog would alert on my jacket every time. I was clean they asked a few questions including shooting with the jacket, and that's what they said was throwing the dog and I was instructed to not wear the jacket anymore. Not sure about live ammo but i guess some are trained to detect spent powder...

Decoligny
06-13-2012, 5:21 AM
Hmmm. I can't remember the last time I was on a train or bus, so I have not thoroughly looked into this. I just spent about 15 minutes doing some quick research. But as far as breaking CRIMINAL law, there seems to be an exemption for LTC holders:

I won't post the entire penal code section.. just the relevant portions:

California Penal Code Section 171.7:




It looks like there is clearly an exemption for LTC holders in CA.

WIth that said, it would seem to me that it would then fall into the same category as a sign prohibiting firearms on private property. If they found out the could ask you to leave. If you did not, you could be charged with trespassing.

I briefly looked at Amtrak's policy regarding firearms having to be in checked baggage, unloaded, locked, declared; can not be in carry on, etc. At the end of the policy it states:

"Passengers failing to meet the above-mentioned requirements for checking firearms will be denied transportation"

Again, it seems as if their remedy is to deny you boarding or to ask you to leave.

I am not a lawyer and have not researched this fully so don't take the above as correct, but it sure seems like the case. Hopefully someone with some greater knowledge of this can chime in.


.

If I am not mistaken, since AMTRAK is Federally subsidized and travels interstate, it is the Federal law that we are dealing with here, not just the CA PC. This is why the law forcing Amtrak to allow guns was passed in Wash D.C., not Sacramento.

sfpcservice
06-13-2012, 11:17 AM
there was an Amtrak cop with a dog on the platform and then when we departed he came through the train with his dog sniffing luggage. I was glad (at least for the moment;)) that I had left my gun at home.

I'm not sure if that would matter... Could the dog distinguish your firearm from the officer's? I'm not sure if they are trained to alert on gun smells....?