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View Full Version : JP Low mass carriers, light buffers and adjustable Gas Blocks, a question


problemchild
06-10-2012, 6:36 PM
A few questions about lowering reciprocating mass........

How much does a JP low mass carrier weigh?
How light a buffer can you run with an adjustable GB and normal FA carrier?
Wouldn't a semi-auto carrier be the same weight as a JP low mass?
Since the buffer and carrier work together couldn't you just lower the mass inside the buffer by removing some weight and filling with shotgun BB's?
What about a light buffer and semi-a carrier together with an adj GB?

FeuerFrei
06-10-2012, 7:05 PM
A few questions about lowering reciprocating mass........

How much does a JP low mass carrier weigh?
How light a buffer can you run with an adjustable GB and normal FA carrier?
Wouldn't a semi-auto carrier be the same weight as a JP low mass?
Since the buffer and carrier work together couldn't you just lower the mass inside the buffer by removing some weight and filling with shotgun BB's?
What about a light buffer and semi-a carrier together with an adj GB?

#1 I don't know. Ask JP Ent.
#2 I run standard carbine buffers and springs.
#3 see #1 answer
#4 theoretically yes but why would you if the other combo works anyway.
#5 I used standard weight buffer/springs with semi auto and full auto casrriers. works.

did you get you rifle working with the adj. gas block yet?

duc748bip
06-10-2012, 7:44 PM
8.75 oz on FA BC with gas key vs. 6.25 oz. Their buffer is three oz. H2 CAR is 4.7 oz. So is total is 9.25 oz vs. 13.45 oz. minus bolt.

problemchild
06-10-2012, 9:25 PM
#1 I don't know. Ask JP Ent.
#2 I run standard carbine buffers and springs.
#3 see #1 answer
#4 theoretically yes but why would you if the other combo works anyway.
#5 I used standard weight buffer/springs with semi auto and full auto casrriers. works.

did you get you rifle working with the adj. gas block yet?

Yes its working now. Ejecting in a small group right at 3:30pm. I am just looking to reduce recoil to a bare minimum for quick and accurate follow up shots.

The syrac GB has cut recoil by 30-50%.

problemchild
06-10-2012, 9:27 PM
8.75 oz on FA BC with gas key vs. 6.25 oz. Their buffer is three oz. H2 CAR is 4.7 oz. So is total is 9.25 oz vs. 13.45 oz. minus bolt.

Thanks

So the 6.25oz is the JP low mass or the semi-auto carrier?

FeuerFrei
06-11-2012, 8:37 AM
good to here the adj gb is taking your rifle where you want to go.
now that it cycles tell about the muzzle brake.
good brake will make any percieved recoil feel like a 22lr.

problemchild
06-11-2012, 9:50 AM
good to here the adj gb is taking your rifle where you want to go.
now that it cycles tell about the muzzle brake.
good brake will make any percieved recoil feel like a 22lr.


I have the SF brake installed now. Target follow ups are much better with brake and GB. Im looking to cut moving mass more to get smaller movement.

IPSICK
06-11-2012, 10:03 AM
Thanks

So the 6.25oz is the JP low mass or the semi-auto carrier?

6.25 is their low mass carrier, 8.5 for the semi-auto.

I have heard of people lightening their own buffers and using it with the JP LMOS carrier and adjustable gas blocks. So you're not necessarily tied to their buffer.

HK35
06-11-2012, 11:51 AM
Im looking to cut moving mass more to get smaller movement. How can lower mass reduce movement since less force is needed to overcome inertia of the lighter BCG & buffer?

BigBamBoo
06-11-2012, 1:23 PM
I would stick with the complete JP low mass system. The buffer and low mass carrier. John Paul spent a lot of time perfecting his system. And it does work. The recoil impulse on my JP's that I am using the low mass systems in are supper light. Double tap's and follow up shots are so easy.

My buddy and I went to the range the other day. He brought one of his LMT rigs. After shooting his and then shooting one of my 18" JP based rifles he said..."WOW...I thought JP was a munch of hype. I am ordering one next week"!

Bottom line....the complete package works. If you look at the top shooters in three gun matches you will see there are LOTS of JP rifles and for a reason.

Glad to hear the gas block took care of your issues. Not sure why so many people are against or ignore the advantages of the adjustable gas block. Having control over bolt velocity is very nice and lets you tune to whatever kind of load you like to use in your rifle.

problemchild
06-11-2012, 4:03 PM
How can lower mass reduce movement since less force is needed to overcome inertia of the lighter BCG & buffer?

Huh?

problemchild
06-11-2012, 4:06 PM
Actually I always wondered why Ar's did not have gas adjusters. BUT having said that the syrac GB sent to my house on 3 day cost me 150 dollars. Why spend 150 if the gun is working? Also if you tune your GB to work with a certain ammo and then go to another ammo with less powder now your gun will fail.

The JP carrier weighs 3oz less than a FA carrier. No need to reshape the wheel. Remove 3oz from the reciprocating mass and you have the same as a JP for 300 less.

I would stick with the complete JP low mass system. The buffer and low mass carrier. John Paul spent a lot of time perfecting his system. And it does work. The recoil impulse on my JP's that I am using the low mass systems in are supper light. Double tap's and follow up shots are so easy.

My buddy and I went to the range the other day. He brought one of his LMT rigs. After shooting his and then shooting one of my 18" JP based rifles he said..."WOW...I thought JP was a munch of hype. I am ordering one next week"!

Bottom line....the complete package works. If you look at the top shooters in three gun matches you will see there are LOTS of JP rifles and for a reason.

Glad to hear the gas block took care of your issues. Not sure why so many people are against or ignore the advantages of the adjustable gas block. Having control over bolt velocity is very nice and lets you tune to whatever kind of load you like to use in your rifle.

IPSICK
06-11-2012, 5:39 PM
Actually I always wondered why Ar's did not have gas adjusters. BUT having said that the syrac GB sent to my house on 3 day cost me 150 dollars. Why spend 150 if the gun is working? Also if you tune your GB to work with a certain ammo and then go to another ammo with less powder now your gun will fail.

The JP carrier weighs 3oz less than a FA carrier. No need to reshape the wheel. Remove 3oz from the reciprocating mass and you have the same as a JP for 300 less.

So are you just planning on removing the 3oz from the buffer?

Good luck on your experiment but there is a balance I believe in removing weight from two discrete components in the system as opposed to removing the weight from just one component in the system. I get the adjustable block will handle some of this issue as you can control the gas but you may end up with less flexibility with the loads you can use. But hey, nothing wrong with tinkering if you're up for it.

As BBB pointed out, JP has put a lot of work into perfecting this system not just for performance but reliability.

IPSICK
06-11-2012, 5:40 PM
Huh?

+1. Huh?

I keep reading HK35's question and it seems like the question answers itself.

ddindetroit
06-11-2012, 6:24 PM
I would stick with the complete JP low mass system. The buffer and low mass carrier. John Paul spent a lot of time perfecting his system. And it does work. The recoil impulse on my JP's that I am using the low mass systems in are supper light. Double tap's and follow up shots are so easy.

My buddy and I went to the range the other day. He brought one of his LMT rigs. After shooting his and then shooting one of my 18" JP based rifles he said..."WOW...I thought JP was a munch of hype. I am ordering one next week"!

Bottom line....the complete package works. If you look at the top shooters in three gun matches you will see there are LOTS of JP rifles and for a reason.

Glad to hear the gas block took care of your issues. Not sure why so many people are against or ignore the advantages of the adjustable gas block. Having control over bolt velocity is very nice and lets you tune to whatever kind of load you like to use in your rifle.


I would have to follow BBB on this. He has shot a lot of JP rifles. He knows from experience.

John Paul is a pretty sharp guy with a lot of innovations. His fit and finish on his AR's are better than any I've seen from any manufacturer. His rifles are coming from the 3-gun point of view rather than the tactical/military perspective.

BBB is a good guy and I'd listen to his experience.

DD

xoutxkastx
06-11-2012, 6:49 PM
I would have to follow BBB on this. He has shot a lot of JP rifles. He knows from experience.

John Paul is a pretty sharp guy with a lot of innovations. His fit and finish on his AR's are better than any I've seen from any manufacturer. His rifles are coming from the 3-gun point of view rather than the tactical/military perspective.

BBB is a good guy and I'd listen to his experience.

DD
+1 BBB video shooting long range with a JP upper got me to pull the trigger on my JP rifle. I have other AR's but my JP CTR-02 shoots so nice. Very little felt recoil and I can rapid fire 10 rounds at a metal target 200 yards and hit all 10 times. The low mass system combine with their brake is just awesome.


Here's a pic of their low mass BCG
http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/zz9/nismo-33/photo3-1.jpg

BigBamBoo
06-12-2012, 9:21 AM
Actually I always wondered why Ar's did not have gas adjusters. BUT having said that the syrac GB sent to my house on 3 day cost me 150 dollars. Why spend 150 if the gun is working? Also if you tune your GB to work with a certain ammo and then go to another ammo with less powder now your gun will fail.

The JP carrier weighs 3oz less than a FA carrier. No need to reshape the wheel. Remove 3oz from the reciprocating mass and you have the same as a JP for 300 less.


Well as I mentioned before....yes...a standard AR will generally run fine without an adjustable gas block. But are mostly over gassed due to the oversized gas port. They (the makers of AR's) do this so you can run just about any ammo in it and it will run.
This does NOT mean it is optimal though....as you discovered with your rifle. So enter the adjustable block and now you have control over the gas,dwell of the bolt unlocking, and bolt velocity. All of which will give you a better, smother, running AR.

As for spending $150 on the Syrac block....you should have gotten the JP for $70.00 if you wanted to save money. Out of six JP's I have never had an issue with there blocks....or any other part.

As mentioned above. Just milling out material from a standard carrier might work or might end up costing you in the long run. Why not do it right from the start and buy the items that have had all the bugs worked out already?

Heck....maybe you will take he plunge and buy a complete JP or JP upper. But be warned....once you do you will never wan another brand of AR after that.
I am currently down to three, and NEED more!

HK35
06-12-2012, 1:57 PM
+1. Huh?

I keep reading HK35's question and it seems like the question answers itself.

If your rifle functions fine with a heavier BCG & buffer then you reduce the mass of the BCG & buffer while keeping amount of force transfered to the BCG/buffer upon firing a shot constant, that would mean more felt recoil, i.e., faster moving BCG/buffer; right?

IPSICK
06-12-2012, 2:17 PM
If your rifle functions fine with a heavier BCG & buffer then you reduce the mass of the BCG & buffer while keeping amount of force transfered to the BCG/buffer upon firing a shot constant, that would mean more felt recoil, i.e., faster moving BCG/buffer; right?

But in your question you already mention using less force which the adjustable gas block allows you to fine tune. Additionally, your argument doesn't really work even without the adjustable gas block provided the rifle is working within safe and acceptable parameters. With less mass in the bcg and buffer, less weight and inertia is transferred to the shooter. I know it sounds counterintuitive but many action shooters do something similar with their limited handguns. They lighten the slide while also using lighter recoil springs. Again the key is always finding the right balance of reciprocating masses and spring weights.