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View Full Version : Winchester ammo sucks!...?


350skylark
06-10-2012, 5:37 PM
I went to shoot clays today and i bought winchester universal target load 7 1/2 instead of the federal i usually buy because it was out. i Had about 200 shots threw my 870 and has performed flawlessly untill today, Im honestly estimating 75 of the 100 rounds i shot failed to eject on the first pull of the receiver. 2 of the shells actually broke the rim when trying to eject and i had to disassemble the barrel and pry it out with a knife. Is this something wrong with my gun or just the ammo?

TacticalPlinker
06-10-2012, 5:40 PM
Sounds like an extractor issue. Are the shells actually being extracted from the chamber?

EDIT: There is a difference between extract and eject... Watch these;

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350skylark
06-10-2012, 5:53 PM
sorry i did mean extract the first video is exactly what happened. Like i said it was with the Winchester and not the federal is this common? or is it something with my gun.

rromeo
06-10-2012, 6:01 PM
I have heard for years about similar problems with Winchester Universal in Remington shotguns. I always grab the Federal or Remington bulk packs, so it's not firsthand knowledge.

CK_32
06-10-2012, 6:09 PM
but its not the ammo... its the unreliable 870!! :rolleyes:

rromeo
06-10-2012, 6:25 PM
It most likely is QC at Remington on their Express line. You never hear of this with a Wingmaster.

aippi
06-10-2012, 6:41 PM
You people are something else. The OP clearly stated he has no issues with other ammo and it is a well known fact that Winchester Universal is crap. So you either you can't read, can't comprehend are you are simply obtuse.

OP - you clearly stated your weapon has performed flawless unitil you bought this cheap ammo and have to be able to relate the issue to ammo. You answered your own question and simply gave these other guys a chance to bash the 870 which they do from no knowledge base what so ever.

wjc
06-10-2012, 6:42 PM
Hmmm...I use Winchester Target X (white box) and have never had an issue in either of my shotguns.

Stick with Federal if that works for you...

alfred1222
06-10-2012, 7:39 PM
You people are something else. The OP clearly stated he has no issues with other ammo and it is a well known fact that Winchester Universal is crap. So you either you can't read, can't comprehend are you are simply obtuse.

OP - you clearly stated your weapon has performed flawless unitil you bought this cheap ammo and have to be able to relate the issue to ammo. You answered your own question and simply gave these other guys a chance to bash the 870 which they do from no knowledge base what so ever.

Wow, what a reasonable and unbiased argument from the guy who is a Remington Armorer :facepalm:

I also had no idea that Winchester ammo was any cheaper than the federal bulk packs. OP, I would have the gun looked at, but that's just me. I don't shoot my 870, are any pump, anymore. They're less reliable than my semi-autos and O/U's

prc77
06-10-2012, 7:43 PM
You people are something else. The OP clearly stated he has no issues with other ammo and it is a well known fact that Winchester Universal is crap. So you either you can't read, can't comprehend are you are simply obtuse.

OP - you clearly stated your weapon has performed flawless unitil you bought this cheap ammo and have to be able to relate the issue to ammo. You answered your own question and simply gave these other guys a chance to bash the 870 which they do from no knowledge base what so ever.

obtuse? dang Aippi, whats with the $5 words.

TacticalPlinker
06-10-2012, 7:51 PM
I really don't think it is the ammo. I've put about 40-45 rounds through my 870 (it's new) of cheap Winchester #7 & 1/2 without a single issue... So I have a simple solution. Try using some different ammo. Different types and brands. See what you find. If you have extraction problems with that ammo as well, you have an extractor problem. If not, try again with the Winchester.

A second solution is to clean your gun better. Extractors on all firearms can cause problems if not properly cleaned. Check your extractor and see if it moves, or if its clogged up with crap. Also see if there is spring tension on the extractor, as the spring on your extractor could be the problem.

Simple solutions without fan boy bulls%%t.

shellslinger
06-10-2012, 7:56 PM
You're not the only one with that issue. I bought some winchester universal from walmart (100 rd value pack) and my 590a1 had issues extracting them as well. They would extract, but sometimes the shell seemed to be stuck in the chamber and I would have to rack it back harder than normal. With federal or remington no issues, extracts like butter.

bsg
06-10-2012, 8:02 PM
i'm thinking the problem is the Winchester Universal; shoot the Federal that has worked for you, and you'll get your answer.

TacticalPlinker
06-10-2012, 8:04 PM
You're not the only one with that issue. I bought some winchester universal from walmart (100 rd value pack) and my 590a1 had issues extracting them as well. They would extract, but sometimes the shell seemed to be stuck in the chamber and I would have to rack it back harder than normal. With federal or remington no issues, extracts like butter.

That can happen with any gun and any ammo. Why? It's called expansion. With a shotgun, the shell is plastic and expands easily. Nothing wrong with the gun or the ammo, it's normal.

-hanko
06-10-2012, 8:40 PM
:lurk5:

I concur with JD...nice ownage as usual.

OP stated no extraction issues with his gun UNTIL he tried the new ammo.

Checking the extractor wouldn't hurt, but I'm still thinking ammo.

-hanko

mike100
06-10-2012, 8:59 PM
870 expresses have really poor polish and finish on the chambers. get a small dremel buffing pad and some polishing compound and got to town on the first 3/4's inch of that barrel...or get another barrel.

you can either polish it, or shoot about 2000+ shells through it...either way, it will eventually let cheap low brass ammo fall out without complaint. usually the best way to extract a stuck hull is to grab the SG by the fore stock and slam the rubber recoil pad on the stock down against the ground fairly hard.

mike100
06-10-2012, 9:02 PM
I see this at the range all the time...more so with brand new expresses, less so (or never) with high mileage expresses or with 30 year old wingmasters etc.

I bought a couple of 30 year old wingmasters (one of them unfired) and none of them had much issue with the cheap winchester or federal. it is the chamber finish for sure. At least you can fix it up for cheap...mostly elbow grease.

Oneaudiopro
06-10-2012, 9:26 PM
You people are something else. The OP clearly stated he has no issues with other ammo and it is a well known fact that Winchester Universal is crap. So you either you can't read, can't comprehend are you are simply obtuse.

OP - you clearly stated your weapon has performed flawless unitil you bought this cheap ammo and have to be able to relate the issue to ammo. You answered your own question and simply gave these other guys a chance to bash the 870 which they do from no knowledge base what so ever.

I've been shooting all my life and if I had 2 rounds break at the rim and have to pry them out of the barrel, the last thing I would look at is the ammo. The problem is in the gun. I shot 3 boxes of that ammo this week with ZERO problems. It seems like pure coincidence that the OP had no issues with the previous 200 rounds. I'de have a competent gunsmith look at the 870.

fusionstar
06-10-2012, 9:33 PM
Someone always suggest a dremel..

CK_32
06-10-2012, 10:15 PM
My question is how are you guys getting remingtons the issue out of this problem....

Every Remington has a problem with Winchester bulk CHEAP stuff. You get what you pay for and 870s spit everything else with out a hitch. If its a QC thing then please explain why people polish their chambers and do all this back hard smithing and it so with that ammo..?


Because my BCM middy doesn't shoot wolf and jams every 50 rounds but shoots everything else that's not dirt cheap a** ammo my BCM has QC issues...? How does that even add up?


Yes I have a 870 on the way but am far from fam boy with the 870. Sometimes I wonder if some of you guys think about what your saying and if it even makes sense before you say it. Seems like too many people are looking to gossip about a company falling appart and the QC issues than simplistic facts on why a problem arose.

A gun can shoot 80,000 rounds with out a problem but the day one jams they aren't reliable. I just don't get some of the logic in the gun world. I hope you guys don't go far shopping anytime soon or you'll never buy a car again if your car standards are as horrid as your gun standards.

elfstone
06-10-2012, 11:49 PM
It seems like pure coincidence that the OP had no issues with the previous 200 rounds.

+1 this sentence. If you and/or gun are baised to shoot one brand of ammo vs. the other, then you already concluded an answer to your question. Factual or not is irrelovent in your perception. Stick to what has worked until another problem presents itself.
I have shot over 300 rnds the last 20 days of this Win. universal 'cheap' stuff with not one issue with it.
So to all who don't like it, if you are still buying it= then :facepalm: on you.


You people are something else. The OP clearly stated he has no issues with other ammo and it is a well known fact that Winchester Universal is crap. So you either you can't read, can't comprehend are you are simply obtuse.

OP - you clearly stated your weapon has performed flawless unitil you bought this cheap ammo and have to be able to relate the issue to ammo. You answered your own question and simply gave these other guys a chance to bash the 870 which they do from no knowledge base what so ever.

-5. Wow does this guy have an agenda or what?! Thankfully we have read and comprehended your reply. :slap:

TacticalPlinker
06-11-2012, 6:19 AM
I will restate the following;


So I have a simple solution. Try using some different ammo. Different types and brands. See what you find. If you have extraction problems with that ammo as well, you have an extractor problem. If not, try again with the Winchester.

A second solution is to clean your gun better. Extractors on all firearms can cause problems if not properly cleaned. Check your extractor and see if it moves, or if its clogged up with crap. Also see if there is spring tension on the extractor, as the spring on your extractor could be the problem.


Again, simple solutions without the bias and non-sense. You need to "reverse engineer" the problem. You need to define the problem and narrow down the possible cause(s). It's simple troubleshooting.

Saying Remington sucks or Winchester sucks or they both suck does nothing at solving your problem.

stevec223
06-11-2012, 8:10 AM
the hulls on winchester universal are about half as thick as feds or rems..paper thin hulls seem to grab more after fired in all my guns...autos..o/u,s... pumps....stick with the rems or feds in bulk packs....cheers...

jamesweed
06-11-2012, 8:39 AM
the hulls on winchester universal are about half as thick as feds or rems..paper thin hulls seem to grab more after fired in all my guns...autos..o/u,s... pumps....stick with the rems or feds in bulk packs....cheers...

^^^^ Seems to be more logical, never shot the Winchester but the cheapest Federal and Remington i shoot are dirt cheap and they have always chambered fine shot fine and extracted-ejected fine so it might just be that ammo.

cindynles
06-11-2012, 8:56 AM
This has been hashed out here before. Its a known fact that Winchester Universal is, to quote Appi, "Craptactular" and won't run is some shotguns. The cheap hull and case has next to zero elasticity. I have had this ammo lock up both of my Ithaca 37's (1950's era) that have actions as smooth as glass.

I was at a match on Sat and the guy in front of me had his 870 lock up several times. I asked him what he was shooting, Winchester Universal.... I handed him some of my Remington sport loads and the problem went away..........

If your 1911 ran fine with 230gr FMJ, but jammed with 200gr SWC would you blame the gun or the ammo?

jyo
06-11-2012, 9:08 AM
I vote for polishing the chamber---QC at Remington has been dismal for several years now---that's why there is such a demand for older used 870s---the older guns simply chew thru all different brands of ammo, cheap or expensive. My older (20+) 870s have ALWAYS worked even with the cheapest bulk ammo. Can't hurt to polish the chamber!

zfields
06-11-2012, 9:10 AM
Some guns don't like some ammo.


Glad mine likes winchester, seems to be all there is at my local walmart lately.

cindynles
06-11-2012, 9:39 AM
I vote for polishing the chamber---QC at Remington has been dismal for several years now---that's why there is such a demand for older used 870s---the older guns simply chew thru all different brands of ammo, cheap or expensive. My older (20+) 870s have ALWAYS worked even with the cheapest bulk ammo. Can't hurt to polish the chamber!

Polishing (using 0000 steel wool) will clean out any gunk that is in the chamber. It will most likely help, but if the chamber is rough or tight you would need to hone it. If the issue really is with the chamber, then the gun should go back to the factory for repair.

I have honed barrels and chambers before, but it is alot of work, and if you are not careful or don't know what you are doing you can wind up doing more harm than good. It's also expensive, a Flex-Hone set is going to run you at least $150.

I'm lazy, so if just switching ammo takes care of the issue, thats what I do. When I see hoof prints I think "horse" not "zebra".

compulsivegunbuyer
06-11-2012, 10:05 AM
Winchester Universal is absolute crap. I will never understand why people use the cheapest crap they can find, and then it's the guns fault. I have even had problems with that crap in my Benelli. I've had shells stick and separate from their bases, and primers blow out. It's what, $20 for 100 rounds of that crap? I use the AA's and Remington STS now. Yes their $32 per hundred, but they pattern better, smell better because the powder they use in those cheap shells is crap, and are reloadable. When you factor in that I can reload them 5 or 6 times, they are actually cheaper. There is of course the steel wool on a dowel thing that seems to fix these problems. But realy, if one ammo does not work, and every other one you have tried does, then there is only one conclusion.

compulsivegunbuyer
06-11-2012, 10:10 AM
Someone always suggest a dremel..

Break it out! Although I would suggest polishing the ammo, not the gun.

rascalgto
06-11-2012, 10:28 AM
A few of my friends/coworkers have Mossbergs and 870s, all their shotguns hate the cheap Winchester stuff, my s12 and 870 hate that stuff too. my s12 and 870 will run federal all day no issues. just stay away from the Winchester. No need for Dremel.

.300 Weatherby Mag
06-11-2012, 10:35 AM
I have guns that are other wise flawless that will start hanging up when fed the Winchester Universal ammo... It doesn't matter whether its a pump, semi, o/u or sxs they all start acting up when fed this ammo.. My solution is that I haven't purchased any of this crap in about three years.. I would rather pay .50-$1 more a box and avoid all the BS... And most other ammo you go with will be cleaner, so less time cleaning and more time shooting... I go through 500-1000 rounds of 12 gauge a month.. I go through thousands of Winchester shells a year.. Winchester universal ammo does suck, but I am very happy with their Supertarget, Super-X and AA lines... A more appropriate title for this thread would be "Winchester Universal Ammo Sucks."

I have absolutely nothing against cheaper ammo as long as it works!!!!

compulsivegunbuyer
06-11-2012, 10:50 AM
These Winchester rounds buckled at the bases just sitting in the magazine tube of my 870. Winchester shells with the short steel bases and red hulls are the only shells that I have ever seen do this. They are garbage, plain and simple. The QC between batches varies. I've had some batches work fine, and others with nothing but problems. The other Winchester ammo is fine, Super X, AA's, ect. If you go to a gunsmith and say my gun works with every ammo but this, you know what he's going to say.

154004

350skylark
06-11-2012, 1:52 PM
I was more curious to see if others were having similar problems with this ammo normally i wouldn't have bought this and would have just bought federal again because if it isn't broke why fix it? but they were out that so i didn't have much choice.

mike100
06-11-2012, 6:20 PM
I vote for polishing the chamber---QC at Remington has been dismal for several years now---that's why there is such a demand for older used 870s---the older guns simply chew thru all different brands of ammo, cheap or expensive. My older (20+) 870s have ALWAYS worked even with the cheapest bulk ammo. Can't hurt to polish the chamber!

Exactly...explain why my unfired wingmaster I found a few years back will extract the crappy winchester promotional bulk pack shells, but my express wouldn't.

Like mentioned. Improve the chamber finish or use better ammo. From my experience with different 870 models, I feel it is better to make them more tolerant on ammo selection. If one will shoot and the other won't, improve the gun with the problem.

Hamilton
06-11-2012, 6:49 PM
I agree with J.D.. If there were no problems until the OP used Universals, stop using Universal loads.

Most Winchester ammo is very good or great. Not so with the cheap stuff. The Universal loads shoot very dirty, the hulls can't be reloaded, and the pellets are irregular. I've shot several thousand rounds of Universals and of the cheaper Federal 100 paks through my Wingmaster but switched to AAs because my average scores improved immediately. Both Winchester and Remington have offered $2.00 per box coupons on AA's an STS premium loads. Three of the ranges I've shot skeet at occasionally offer big discounts for case purchases ($80), so with the coupon, my cost of a box of AAs is close to $6 and reasonably close to the Walmart prices for 100 pack Universals and Federals.

While I had no gun issues with the Universal loads (but loved the price) they shot very dirty compared even to the Federals loads - this means your shotgun, your hands, and your clothes will be dirtier. The better ammo gives better shooting results because the pellets are near perfect, the wads and hulls are better, and I'd bet the powder is a better quality.

As you get better with clays, your scores should be better with higher quality loads.

Jazeronthelaser
06-11-2012, 6:59 PM
I had the same problem with my new 870 express and the winchester universal bulk stuff. Action hung up so bad I actually had to slam the butt on my buddy's 4x4 tire (carefully of coarse) to eject the spent shell. Naturally I was worried. Went out the following weekend with some better ammo and it ran flawlessly!! Now I know that I can't run that ammo anymore. I'd rather pay a little more then have to deal with that crap. I'll give the 80 shells I still have to my buddy and his mossberg. It eats it up!! :)

compulsivegunbuyer
06-12-2012, 3:25 PM
Bingo. If your actualy shooting at something the AA's and STS work leaps and bounds better.

I agree with J.D.. If there were no problems until the OP used Universals, stop using Universal loads.

Most Winchester ammo is very good or great. Not so with the cheap stuff. The Universal loads shoot very dirty, the hulls can't be reloaded, and the pellets are irregular. I've shot several thousand rounds of Universals and of the cheaper Federal 100 paks through my Wingmaster but switched to AAs because my average scores improved immediately. Both Winchester and Remington have offered $2.00 per box coupons on AA's an STS premium loads. Three of the ranges I've shot skeet at occasionally offer big discounts for case purchases ($80), so with the coupon, my cost of a box of AAs is close to $6 and reasonably close to the Walmart prices for 100 pack Universals and Federals.

While I had no gun issues with the Universal loads (but loved the price) they shot very dirty compared even to the Federals loads - this means your shotgun, your hands, and your clothes will be dirtier. The better ammo gives better shooting results because the pellets are near perfect, the wads and hulls are better, and I'd bet the powder is a better quality.

As you get better with clays, your scores should be better with higher quality loads.

CGT80
06-12-2012, 10:38 PM
My benelli super sport eats anything that walmart sells, from universal winchesters to AA's and heavy bird loads. I also runs federal 12ga 1 oz loads just fine. I would be unhappy if my gun was picky. I have run thousands of rounds through mine so far, without any problems.

As I get better at skeet, I will have to try some more sts's or AA's to see if they help my game. When I first got the gun, I had only shot informal clays and couldn't tell a difference in the more expensive loads.

CK_32
06-12-2012, 10:55 PM
As long as my rifle pistol or shotgun shoots the majority of the ammo I feed it I'll live.

If it doesn't feed one type of ammo or a few $20 a 1000 loads I can live with that too. Go grab a ferrari and run 87 Arco and tell the car guys their cars unreliable. Pretty much the same arguement you guys have against the 870 or any gun that doesn't run with certain type of ammo. If it doesn't run in spacific conditions that's a different story but there are other options and it's pure choice on what you feed it. Don't run what it doesn't feed simple. But if your gun doesn't shoot in certain care/weather conditions or several types of ammo then you have a problem.

Mana4real
06-13-2012, 2:08 PM
I've noticed that the Winchester universal bulk packs, some of the hulls aren't exactly the same size when they are loaded and crimped. Some would not properly eject (extract fine) out of my 870, but my O/U's will shoot anything and extract with no problems as long as it fits in the chamber.

razr
06-13-2012, 7:18 PM
CAll them and let them know, they'll make sure it gets fixed.