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View Full Version : Is this a straw buy?


wurger
06-07-2012, 5:13 PM
I'm unloading some of my airsoft guns to buy real stuff. I have a buyer for one of my airsoft guns who is willing, but doesn't have cash. He does have a credit card. One of my local FFL's has the M&P .40 package I'm after. Could it be considered a straw buy if I were to meet my buyer at the FFL, he were to pay for the M&P with his credit card, but I do all of the DROS forms?

taperxz
06-07-2012, 5:19 PM
The FFL will be extremely suspicious and might not allow the sale regardless of circumstances. Tell your friend to take the card to the bank and pay you the cash.

QQQ
06-07-2012, 5:23 PM
Do you have a paypal account?

ape0r
06-07-2012, 5:40 PM
Do you have a paypal account?

+1.

Sounds like a responsible citizen, buying toys when he doesn't have the cash to pay for them!!

Also, my fiancee bought me a shotgun for christmas - she swiped her card to pay and I filled out the forms. Can't imagine how it would be different for you, if you choose to go forward with the plan you propose. Love that woman!

stix213
06-07-2012, 5:44 PM
Not necessarily a straw buy, but many FFL's will not want anything to do with this. Just use paypal to send you the money from his CC as already suggested.

wurger
06-07-2012, 5:54 PM
Do you have a paypal account?

Tried the Paypal.

This guy ain't the sharpest tool in the shed. His paypal account is tied to his bank account, and he doesn't have $700 in the bank...

vincewarde
06-07-2012, 6:03 PM
You can try it - but unless you are well known to the FFL, they probably won't do it. It have done this once when buying a gun for my son - he filled out the forms, etc and we used my card. Of course they could see the same last name on the card.......

cdtx2001
06-07-2012, 6:10 PM
My philosophy has always been "in God we trust, all others pay cash".

Have him get cash or you probably won't have a good time at the gun store.

stix213
06-07-2012, 6:24 PM
Tried the Paypal.

This guy ain't the sharpest tool in the shed. His paypal account is tied to his bank account, and he doesn't have $700 in the bank...

He just needs to add his CC, then when he sends funds he chooses the CC. Paypal accounts can be tied to multiple checking and CC accounts at the same time.

wurger
06-07-2012, 6:35 PM
As much as I'm wanting that M&P, I just told the guy to show me cash or forget it. Starting to be too much trouble. I just was wondering if the deal was even possible legalwise.

halifax
06-07-2012, 6:42 PM
... I just was wondering if the deal was even possible legalwise.

Possible, yes. Dealers are expected to scrutinize such things but they make the decision. It's not written into the law anywhere that he can't do it. If he believes you are the actual transferee, he may just go ahead with it but don't expect that...especially if it's just a gun shop employee.

Go with cash.

003
06-07-2012, 7:20 PM
I really don’t want to start an argument with anyone here, but much of the information posted here is just plain wrong. A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun for another because the person who ends up with the gun cannot legally buy it. It does not matter who pays or writes the check.

The issue is who fills out and signs the federal form 4473, and in California who is the gun going to be registered to.

Question # 12a on form 4473 is the question that covers this issue. The following is a direct cut and paste from form 4473.

"Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring
the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you."

Now I do understand that a dealer may be concerned if two guys walk in and one fills out the form and the other pays, but that does not change the issue. In the eyes of the law who pays does not matter. The only issue is who is the real owner going to be, and that must be the person that fills out and signs form 4473.

Mssr. Elegantť
06-07-2012, 8:01 PM
I really donít want to start an argument with anyone here, but much of the information posted here is just plain wrong.

Where do you see wrong information posted in this thread? :confused:

Bigtwin
06-07-2012, 8:07 PM
Not a straw purchase by definition at all! I have read on Calguns that some dealers frown upon this though! Never have I had this issue at a gunstore....but that is what I have read!

taperxz
06-07-2012, 8:09 PM
Tried the Paypal.

This guy ain't the sharpest tool in the shed. His paypal account is tied to his bank account, and he doesn't have $700 in the bank...

What part of take the credit card to the bank for a cash withdrawal is so hard. Why use PayPal?

dantodd
06-07-2012, 8:54 PM
I really donít want to start an argument with anyone here, but much of the information posted here is just plain wrong. A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun for another because the person who ends up with the gun cannot legally buy it.

This is not how the ATF or the CA DoJ defines straw purchase. While it should be legal to do as is described it will be viewed with a jaundiced eye by any FFL and with the recent high profile prosecution of FFLs for "straw purchases."

kidrice
06-07-2012, 9:56 PM
Maybe you can have the guy buy you a gift certificate at the gun store, with his credit card. Then you turn around and use the gift certificate.

Vin496
06-07-2012, 11:15 PM
Not a straw purchase by definition at all! I have read on Calguns that some dealers frown upon this though! Never have I had this issue at a gunstore....but that is what I have read!

This has been my experience. A few years back I was going to buy a shotgun for my friend's birthday. We went in and he picked it out and filled out the form, when it came time to pay,, I pulled out the cash and the FFL wouldn't allow the sale, said it looked like a straw purchase. Even though I had bought things from him before and he knew I was good to buy.

Told us to go out grab a snack and while we were out for my friend to get the money to buy the gun. We left came back about 10 minutes later and my friend bought his shotgun.

tenpercentfirearms
06-08-2012, 5:17 AM
Sorry everyone feels the need to lecture you like you are 5 years old. I will simply answer the question.

This is not a straw purchase. However, you can only find out if its acceptable or not from the FFL that is going to run the DROS. Personally, I would just ask you the details, then ask if you are the actual guy keeping the gun, then remind you of the consequence if you lie on 11.a.

fiddletown
06-08-2012, 7:09 AM
I really donít want to start an argument with anyone here, but much of the information posted here is just plain wrong. A straw purchase is when someone buys a gun for another because the person who ends up with the gun cannot legally buy it. ....Sorry, but this it wrong. Why it's wrong has recently been discussed extensively here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=558034), here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=562886) and here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=579538). There's no reason to go into detail here, because this presents a different situation.

The problem here is, as others have said, that the whole thing will look suspicious, so an FFL might baulk. Can't blame him. Why would he put his license and livelihood on the line?

TonyM
06-08-2012, 6:34 PM
I'm unloading some of my airsoft guns to buy real stuff. I have a buyer for one of my airsoft guns who is willing, but doesn't have cash. He does have a credit card. One of my local FFL's has the M&P .40 package I'm after. Could it be considered a straw buy if I were to meet my buyer at the FFL, he were to pay for the M&P with his credit card, but I do all of the DROS forms?

Sorry everyone feels the need to lecture you like you are 5 years old. I will simply answer the question.

This is not a straw purchase. However, you can only find out if its acceptable or not from the FFL that is going to run the DROS. Personally, I would just ask you the details, then ask if you are the actual guy keeping the gun, then remind you of the consequence if you lie on 11.a.

If your FFL is inclined not to do as Wes states he would, I would do the following (assuming you have an iPhone or Android device).

1. Go to squareup.com and create an account, linking your bank account.
2. Validate your account (took me 1 day).
3. Either wait for the free reader in the mail, or go to bestbuy and buy this one for $10 that is available at most stores: Card Reader (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Square+-+Card+Reader/3282053.p?id=1218391156836&skuId=3282053&st=square%20card%20reader&cp=1&lp=1)
4. Swipe card and sell Airsoft.
5. Money is transferred to your linked account in 1 business day.

That way, you don't need to teach people to use paypal/other that are not tech savvy.

dantodd
06-08-2012, 6:38 PM
If your FFL is inclined not to do as Wes states he would, I would do the following (assuming you have an iPhone or Android device).

1. Go to squareup.com and create an account, linking your bank account.
2. Validate your account (took me 1 day).
3. Either wait for the free reader in the mail, or go to bestbuy and buy this one for $10 that is available at most stores: Card Reader (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Square+-+Card+Reader/3282053.p?id=1218391156836&skuId=3282053&st=square%20card%20reader&cp=1&lp=1)
4. Swipe card and sell Airsoft.
5. Money is transferred to your linked account in 1 business day.

That way, you don't need to teach people to use paypal/other that are not tech savvy.

If I remember from when I bought my reader the $10 cost is put into your account when you link one. Effectively making the cost only the tax on $9.95.

lorax3
06-08-2012, 6:57 PM
From a CYA standpoint, I'd wait until he had the actual cash to trade for the airsoft stuff. What if he decides to dispute the credit card charge made with the gun store? Too many foreseeable issues, if he really has some cash coming in the next few weeks I would wait.

wurger
06-08-2012, 7:59 PM
Thanks for the replies. Buyer kept coming up with excuses and delays. I told him "cash only" and haven't heard from him since. I was pretty sure this wasn't a straw buy, but it's California after all...