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Ridesy
06-07-2012, 4:49 PM
Can you guys double check my thinking here please.

So I would really like one of these (if I can track one down):

http://www.pof-usa.com/pdw/pdw308.htm

Total length of rifle collapsed is 30.25" (so it beats the 30" rule), put a 30/10 mag and a bullet button and am I ready to go?

Hang on the barrel length is 12.5", less than 16" is SBR and CA law says no SBR's.....

So from what i can see this can't be made CA Compliant or am I missing something.

Please give me some good news......

bender152
06-07-2012, 4:53 PM
If the barrel is less than 16", it's a no go. No way around it.

Of course, if you pin a long flash hider onto the barrel to bring it up to the 16" minimum, that's legal.

Prc329
06-07-2012, 4:54 PM
You would need to find a way to permanently add 3.5" to the barrel.

that guy
06-07-2012, 5:13 PM
Or ditch the stock and use a pistol lower with that upper. Although shooting 308 with just the buffer tube might smart a little bit...

http://www.pof-usa.com/upper/upperreceiver.htm

winnre
06-07-2012, 5:20 PM
Move to NV or AZ.

Ridesy
06-07-2012, 5:59 PM
Thanks guys, just what I thought.

Arkangel
06-07-2012, 8:09 PM
You would need to find a way to permanently add 3.5" to the barrel.

Talk to POF maybe they can pin and weld the extension for you, or find a dealer willing to make the modification and have POF send it to them, then after the mod they send it to the FFL of your choice. It's going to be expensive, but if you want the rifle bad enough...

Also

Look up EBR works, they may be able to help.

MrPlink
06-07-2012, 9:05 PM
or you could simply purchase a 16in model...

RobGR
06-07-2012, 9:19 PM
Rifle Gear in OC might do it too, but that's if you live in OC. And you would want to call them to see if they would accept the firearm. I'm sure they would, POF just needs to separate the upper & lower when shipping to CA.

But yeah, echoing what Mr Plink said, why not just a 16" brl? Wondering what is the loss of accuracy is with a 12.5" brl , not to mention the fireball and loud as hell sound.

Quiet
06-07-2012, 11:27 PM
Total length of rifle collapsed is 30.25" (so it beats the 30" rule), put a 30/10 mag and a bullet button and am I ready to go?

Hang on the barrel length is 12.5", less than 16" is SBR and CA law says no SBR's.....

So from what i can see this can't be made CA Compliant or am I missing something.

Please give me some good news......

As what others said, it's a SBR.

Less than 16" barrel with a shoulder stock = SBR. [PC 17170(a)]




Penal Code 17170
As used in Sections 16530 and 16640, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, Article 1 (commencing with Section 27500) of Chapter 4 of Division 6 of Title 4, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, "short-barreled rifle" means any of the following:
(a) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(b) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

socalblue
06-08-2012, 12:45 AM
Can you guys double check my thinking here please.

So I would really like one of these (if I can track one down):

http://www.pof-usa.com/pdw/pdw308.htm

Total length of rifle collapsed is 30.25" (so it beats the 30" rule), put a 30/10 mag and a bullet button and am I ready to go?

Hang on the barrel length is 12.5", less than 16" is SBR and CA law says no SBR's.....

So from what i can see this can't be made CA Compliant or am I missing something.

Please give me some good news......

It's an SBR under Federal law too. Barrel must be 16" + on any rifle & 18" on a shotgun or it falls under NFA.

duc748bip
06-08-2012, 2:26 AM
SBR or no SBR? How about a CA or no CA?
If you add 3.5" to the barrel (4" muzzle device pinned ad weld) to dodge the SBR felony you still need three more inch to the rifle to make it CA legal

Arkangel
06-08-2012, 8:39 AM
SBR or no SBR? How about a CA or no CA?
If you add 3.5" to the barrel (4" muzzle device pinned ad weld) to dodge the SBR felony you still need three more inch to the rifle to make it CA legal

The OP said it was over 30" with stock collapsed, so it's g2g in OAL, just not barrel length.

RobGR
06-08-2012, 9:24 AM
Loss of accuracy shooting 7.62 nato out a 12.5" brl?

Anyone, anyone, anyone.... (Fast Times)

TNP'R
06-08-2012, 9:36 AM
Move to a state like mine and then you can ask that question.

duc748bip
06-08-2012, 10:38 AM
My bad i forgot 26" is AW and 30" is Kosher. Twenty-six, Thirty-Six not good with numbers at 2AM :D
The OP said it was over 30" with stock collapsed, so it's g2g in OAL, just not barrel length.

FMJBT
06-08-2012, 12:23 PM
Loss of accuracy shooting 7.62 nato out a 12.5" brl?

Anyone, anyone, anyone.... (Fast Times)

Probably no loss of accuracy. If anything it might be slightly more accurate than a longer barrel of the same profile. Shorter barrels in general are more accurate than longer barrels, but will have less muzzle velocity. I'd imagine that a 12.5" 308 would probably still make it out to around 500 yards with decent accuracy.

Personally, I don't see the point in putting 3.5" of extension on a 12.5" barrel to end up at 16". Kind of defeats the purpose of getting the 12.5" barrel in the first place. For pinned/welded muzzle attachments the shortes I'd go is 14.5" so you can weld on the muzzle device of your choice and still maintain a relatively compact 16" overall length while still making significantly more velocity than the 12.5" barrel.

winnre
06-08-2012, 1:59 PM
Loss of accuracy shooting 7.62 nato out a 12.5" brl?

Anyone, anyone, anyone.... (Fast Times)


It is a misconception that a shorter barrel is less accurate. It is not. The power behind the bullet will likely be less, so you cannot go with established bullet trajectories. Also the SIGHTING RADIUS is not shorter, so you will likely not be as accurate when aiming at the target. With that in mind, assuming the same trajectory for this example, your aim will be better with a 12" sight radius on a 4" barrel than a 4" site radius on a 12" barrel.

brando
06-08-2012, 5:00 PM
Move to a state like mine and then you can ask that question.

Gee, what a great idea?! I mean, my life's not complete unless I can own an SBR and suppressor, so I might as well uproot my life and move to a firearms friendly state, right? Sarcasm aside, when people suggest we just move out of CA, they forget that there are often many reasons why we stay. A lot of us have careers that are invested in companies that keep us in CA or we have family here and that's important to us. I moved to New Zealand for work and I can tell you right now I still miss my life in CA - friends, family, activities and amazing weather (lots of sun, no humidity), the beach, etc. But most of all I miss being able to load up the 4x4 and drive an hour or so to BLM land where I can shoot as far as I want. You can't do that in a lot of free states east of CO. Now if you just have to have SBRs, full auto and suppressors, then you're in the wrong state.

To many, the idea of "cut 'n run" is not an option.

RobGR
06-08-2012, 11:15 PM
Probably no loss of accuracy. If anything it might be slightly more accurate than a longer barrel of the same profile. Shorter barrels in general are more accurate than longer barrels, but will have less muzzle velocity. I'd imagine that a 12.5" 308 would probably still make it out to around 500 yards with decent accuracy.

Personally, I don't see the point in putting 3.5" of extension on a 12.5" barrel to end up at 16". Kind of defeats the purpose of getting the 12.5" barrel in the first place. For pinned/welded muzzle attachments the shortes I'd go is 14.5" so you can weld on the muzzle device of your choice and still maintain a relatively compact 16" overall length while still making significantly more velocity than the 12.5" barrel.

I was under the impression that a 16" barrel would be the minimum length to stabilize 7.62 NATO. Besides loss of velocity, it just seems counter productive to go shorter. However, HKs and FALs run short barrels, so obviously somethings working. No doubt POF has tested this and it's a great shooter, I just imagine huge muzzle flash and terrific noise, all that excess powder burning off on such a short barrel. I guess it all depends on how far out he's planing on shooting it too, whether it's 300yds or 1000yds. I don't know much about the 7.62 NATO, but it's definitely a caliber I would like to have / should have. Would one try to purchase (if not doing custom loads) a particular manufacturer's bullet with a faster burning powder, if so, what would be recommended?

TNP'R
06-09-2012, 5:30 AM
Gee, what a great idea?! I mean, my life's not complete unless I can own an SBR and suppressor, so I might as well uproot my life and move to a firearms friendly state, right? Sarcasm aside, when people suggest we just move out of CA, they forget that there are often many reasons why we stay. A lot of us have careers that are invested in companies that keep us in CA or we have family here and that's important to us. I moved to New Zealand for work and I can tell you right now I still miss my life in CA - friends, family, activities and amazing weather (lots of sun, no humidity), the beach, etc. But most of all I miss being able to load up the 4x4 and drive an hour or so to BLM land where I can shoot as far as I want. You can't do that in a lot of free states east of CO. Now if you just have to have SBRs, full auto and suppressors, then you're in the wrong state.

To many, the idea of "cut 'n run" is not an option.



I cut and ran and i'm glad I did. I can own firearms I never would of bought in CA because of the laws and a lot of laws other than gun laws are less restricting. Don't have to have a smog test and there's no state income tax among other things. You can keep your deserts and what not i'll keep my freedom not to mention the right to defend myself and my property. As far as shooting goes There is plenty of land here it may not be BLM land but almost everyone has land so you can find places to shoot so long as you're not anti social..

I still stand by my original statement if you want a SBR badly enough move. If you don't want to move that's fine just saying.