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disturbed1
06-07-2012, 12:48 PM
Hello peeps, I have tried searching online for the codes or laws against UOC. I remember that one of the few places we can UOC was in BLM land and unincorporated areas. Well, it so happens that the area I reside in which is known as EL Modena located in the city of Orange in Orange County. El Modena happens to be an unincorporated area. So, What are the laws or codes I should look up so that I may practice this UOC. Also, I was trying to look up a map of the area to know where the boundaries are so that I may not run into trouble. Let me get one thing straight here, I AM NOT LOOKING FOR TROUBLE or FISHING for attention from the cops or sheriffs although I do realize that this may get some unwanted attention. I just want to convince people that guns are good as long as you are responsible. Oooone more thing, in regards to CCW or LTC, I know it is up to the Sheriff to grant the CCW but would me living in an unicorported area help me out at all or not really. Thank you all for your time.

unusedusername
06-07-2012, 1:30 PM
My understanding is that UOC is really only still legal in places where you could loaded open carry anyways, like BLM land where shooting is legal. I could be wrong here, but that is what I remember from reading the ban bill a while back.

Why would you UOC when you could load up?

The unincorporated area language also states that it must be legal to shoot there, if I remember correctly. Check your county ordinances on that one. I know that shooting (even in unincorporated areas) of San Mateo county is prohibited, so open carry is also illegal there.

mud99
06-07-2012, 1:41 PM
I know several people who shoot in unincorporated San Mateo and Santa Clara County. Do you have a PC reference?

unusedusername
06-07-2012, 2:00 PM
Mud99: Look here (http://library.municode.com/HTML/16029/level2/TIT3PUSAMOWE_CH3.52FI.html#TIT3PUSAMOWE_CH3.52FI_3 .52.010DEFI)

3.52.020 - Discharge of firearms prohibited.
No person shall, within the unincorporated area of the County of San Mateo, discharge or fire any firearm, except as provided in section 3.52.030 hereof.

(Prior code 3250.1; Ord. 1047, 03/02/54)

3.52.030 - Exceptions.permanent link to this piece of content

The provisions of section 3.52.020 as to the use of any firearm shall not apply to any of the following cases:

(a)To sheriffs, constables, marshals, policemen, or other peace officers, or any person summoned by any such officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace, or persons who are members of the armed services of the United States, or the National Guard, while such persons are acting in the lawful discharge of their duties;
(b)To persons using firearms in the lawful defense of self, third persons, or the user's property;
(c)To persons discharging or firing such firearms or causing them to be discharged or fired at a regularly established firing, shooting or target range with the consent of the owner and/or person in charge of any such firing, shooting or target range; the term "regularly established firing, shooting or target range" as used in this subsection includes properly constructed indoor and/or outdoor home ranges on private property when such range is supervised by an adult.
(d)To persons lawfully hunting pursuant to the provisions of the California Fish and Game Code.

Edit to add: essentially this means you can hunt (where, when, and how hunting is legal) and fire at a "regularly established firing, shooting or target range", but you can not shoot anywhere else. You can not just mag dump at a berm on "some dude's" property unless your building permits/ and or land-use permits for the "some dude's" property included a shooting range.

I am not a lawyer. I am frequently wrong.

taperxz
06-07-2012, 2:16 PM
My understanding is that UOC is really only still legal in places where you could loaded open carry anyways, like BLM land where shooting is legal. I could be wrong here, but that is what I remember from reading the ban bill a while back.

Why would you UOC when you could load up?

The unincorporated area language also states that it must be legal to shoot there, if I remember correctly. Check your county ordinances on that one. I know that shooting (even in unincorporated areas) of San Mateo county is prohibited, so open carry is also illegal there.

There is no blanket prohibition in San Mateo county. People hunt and shoot on the coast quite often on their private land. In fact, in most places in SM CO. unincorporated areas the laws probably fall under safety issues. Most unincorporated land in SM like Emerald Hills is simply to populated to shoot safely or to be huntable.

LOL didn't see your quote. That law is pretty broad to be taken as a shooting ban FWIW

stix213
06-07-2012, 2:20 PM
My understanding is that UOC is really only still legal in places where you could loaded open carry anyways, like BLM land where shooting is legal. I could be wrong here, but that is what I remember from reading the ban bill a while back.


This ^^^ is my understanding too. If you can shoot you can open carry. So might as well open carry loaded.

mud99
06-07-2012, 2:20 PM
3.52.030(c) exempts shooting on your own property or with permission from the owners.

To the OP: Are you looking to shoot on your own property? Because otherwise, you likely aren't going to find any unincorporated land in California that isn't owned by an individual or by the state. If you do find land like this, might as well build yourself a little cabin and move in...

taperxz
06-07-2012, 2:26 PM
3.52.030(c) exempts shooting on your own property or with permission from the owners.

To the OP: Are you looking to shoot on your own property? Because otherwise, you likely aren't going to find any unincorporated land in California that isn't owned by an individual or by the state. If you do find land like this, might as well build yourself a little cabin and move in...

I think the federal government owns plenty of land in this state allowing people to shoot firearms. Don't you?

mud99
06-07-2012, 2:33 PM
Make that: "you likely aren't going to find any unincorporated land in California that isn't owned by an individual or by the state or by the federal government".

I think the federal government owns plenty of land in this state allowing people to shoot firearms. Don't you?

Glock22Fan
06-07-2012, 2:33 PM
I think the federal government owns plenty of land in this state allowing people to shoot firearms. Don't you?

If there wasn't, it would not be possible to find public hunting land, and there is a fair amount of that.

It really varies by county. L.A. County, for example, has a fair amount of its inincorporated land covered under a shooting ban. Kern County is pretty much the reverse. Just depends where you live and where you travel to.

taperxz
06-07-2012, 2:47 PM
If there wasn't, it would not be possible to find public hunting land, and there is a fair amount of that.

It really varies by county. L.A. County, for example, has a fair amount of its inincorporated land covered under a shooting ban. Kern County is pretty much the reverse. Just depends where you live and where you travel to.

It seems like you guys down there have it way different than up here. Its a bit more wild west up here except for maybe Mr. Green Jeans.

taperxz
06-07-2012, 2:51 PM
Make that: "you likely aren't going to find any unincorporated land in California that isn't owned by an individual or by the state or by the federal government".

OKAYY that pretty much covers ALL LAND. What kind of land is there that isn't Owned by the state, county or fed or private property? :shrug:

Decoligny
06-07-2012, 3:23 PM
Hello peeps, I have tried searching online for the codes or laws against UOC. I remember that one of the few places we can UOC was in BLM land and unincorporated areas. Well, it so happens that the area I reside in which is known as EL Modena located in the city of Orange in Orange County. El Modena happens to be an unincorporated area. So, What are the laws or codes I should look up so that I may practice this UOC. Also, I was trying to look up a map of the area to know where the boundaries are so that I may not run into trouble. Let me get one thing straight here, I AM NOT LOOKING FOR TROUBLE or FISHING for attention from the cops or sheriffs although I do realize that this may get some unwanted attention. I just want to convince people that guns are good as long as you are responsible. Oooone more thing, in regards to CCW or LTC, I know it is up to the Sheriff to grant the CCW but would me living in an unicorported area help me out at all or not really. Thank you all for your time.

You can't live in an unincorporated area IN the city of Orange. An unincorporated area only exists OUTSIDE of city limits. Anything within city limits is by definition INCORPORATED.

Librarian
06-07-2012, 3:40 PM
You can't live in an unincorporated area IN the city of Orange. An unincorporated area only exists OUTSIDE of city limits. Anything within city limits is by definition INCORPORATED.

You'd think so, but not always true.

I have a friend who lives in an unincorporated area. It's a neighborhood entirely surrounded by the City of Concord, but it receives no city services (water, sewer, garbage; the FD is a joint county/city thing) - the folks who live there have voted against annexation a couple of times, and the City is not interested in forcing the issue.

We just received our quarterly water district newsletter, and his neighborhood is this little blotch of white surrounded by blue.

taperxz
06-07-2012, 3:44 PM
You'd think so, but not always true.

I have a friend who lives in an unincorporated area. It's a neighborhood entirely surrounded by the City of Concord, but it receives no city services (water, sewer, garbage; the FD is a joint county/city thing) - the folks who live there have voted against annexation a couple of times, and the City is not interested in forcing the issue.

We just received our quarterly water district newsletter, and his neighborhood is this little blotch of white surrounded by blue.

Yep, South San Francisco, Redwood City and a few others have "pockets of unincorporated areas within city limits.

Glock22Fan
06-07-2012, 3:59 PM
You can't live in an unincorporated area IN the city of Orange. An unincorporated area only exists OUTSIDE of city limits. Anything within city limits is by definition INCORPORATED.

Not sure whether we have a terminology confusion here or not, but I live in the CITY of Acton, which is unincorporated land within the COUNTY of Los Angeles.

So, do I live in a city, or on unincorporated land? Or, as everyone around here thinks, both?

Alan Block
06-07-2012, 4:13 PM
Are there any parts of el Modena that are greater than 1000 ft from a school?

taperxz
06-07-2012, 4:21 PM
Not sure whether we have a terminology confusion here or not, but I live in the CITY of Acton, which is unincorporated land within the COUNTY of Los Angeles.

So, do I live in a city, or on unincorporated land? Or, as everyone around here thinks, both?

A city is chartered, so if you have a council, FD, PD and local issues you are a city. Unincorporated is strictly areas run by the county only. In my area if i call the police, the sheriff comes out. NOT a city PD.

disturbed1
06-07-2012, 5:42 PM
Yes, my area is unincorporated. I am surrounded by the city of Orange. I do belive my house is a little bit past the 1000 ft mark. I know my area is unincorported because city cops DO NOT take our calls and often send Sheriff out for any Police related. This is where I am stuck and dont want to ask the Sheriffs for info because more often they have always given wrong info. The cops though are really cool though. Where can you guys advise me to look for legal info on this matter because I would sure like to know. Thanks.

disturbed1
06-07-2012, 5:43 PM
A city is chartered, so if you have a council, FD, PD and local issues you are a city. Unincorporated is strictly areas run by the county only. In my area if i call the police, the sheriff comes out. NOT a city PD.

Yes, we do not get PD at all. We get county stuff 'round here.

taperxz
06-07-2012, 6:22 PM
Yes, we do not get PD at all. We get county stuff 'round here.

Regardless UOC in your area is probably illegal.

disturbed1
06-07-2012, 6:31 PM
So, from what I can find, the discharge of a firearm in my area can be done if it is lawfully done. I will be contacting some 2A lawyers to confirm this. I been reading some items that I have found. The last bit of help I now require is a map showing me where my unincorporated area ends and starts. I will also be caring all the local codes before I go on practicing this. I will let you guys know of all my findings

taperxz
06-07-2012, 6:41 PM
Do not UOC where you are at unless you fit one of the legal exceptions! You will get arrested!

taperxz
06-07-2012, 6:43 PM
Your area is not open to shooting and SD is not an exception for UOC.

disturbed1
06-07-2012, 6:55 PM
Your area is not open to shooting and SD is not an exception for UOC.

check this link out http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=11378

disturbed1
06-07-2012, 8:48 PM
So, by being allowed to discharge a weapon, does it refer to being able to just freely empting the clip or by means of discharging the weapon under lawful circumstances. Because from what I am reading here and there, it seems that I can open carry only in unincorporated areas(EL Modena) where as the discharge of the weapon is not prohibited( not prohibited if a person lawfully discharges the weapon) which means I can now open carry loaded because I am allowed to discharge the firearm.

taperxz
06-07-2012, 8:58 PM
OK I see where you're going with this. Do what you want. Why not LOC?? Hope you saved up for a good attorney that wants.... $5000??? LOL good luck CN

disturbed1
06-07-2012, 9:07 PM
If I can manipulate the law to where I would be allowed to LOC then yes or else it will be UOC

taperxz
06-07-2012, 9:12 PM
If I can manipulate the law to where I would be allowed to LOC then yes or else it will be UOC


Have fun. This is a perfect example of how not to be a gun owner^^^

Here's your sign:rolleyes:

paul0660
06-07-2012, 9:20 PM
Just realized I miss all those youtube vids of dudes packing empty at the coffeehouse, and their banter with cops.

disturbed1
06-08-2012, 11:07 AM
Want I am trying to do is get people more interested into gun and stop being afraid of guns. More people on your side the better. so, here's your sign.

FalconLair
06-08-2012, 11:22 AM
do you think you have to carry a gun to get more people interested? It might have the reverse effect, if any...people who aren't accustomed to seeing UOC in public aren't just gonna warm up to you suddenly because you are walking around doing it...there is a natural fear instinct that kicks in when people see a gun and all its gonna take is the wrong kind of frantic 911 call from someone to have you possibly looking down the barrels of some "loaded" firearms...just saying

while I see the valor in your quest, your personal crusade could horribly backfire very easily, with tragic results

unusedusername
06-08-2012, 12:31 PM
while I see the valor in your quest, your personal crusade could horribly backfire very easily, with tragic results

I doubt it would be tragic unless he pointed it at the investigating officers when someone does the "man with a gun" call.

He will just be arrested and charged under the UOC ban law.

dsmoot
06-08-2012, 1:13 PM
I saw this thread and had to check if I had accidentally turned my laptop into a time machine! Do not UOC in Orange county, you will be arrested.

disturbed1
06-08-2012, 11:03 PM
I am only going to do it if I can do it a "smart" way.

unusedusername
06-08-2012, 11:50 PM
As far as I know, there does not exist a "smart" method of UOC at this time.

mrdd
06-09-2012, 4:12 AM
Yep, South San Francisco, Redwood City and a few others have "pockets of unincorporated areas within city limits.

I don't believe that "within city limits" is the same thing as "surrounded by a city" as applied to unincorporated areas of a county.

rkt88edmo
06-09-2012, 4:52 AM
You'd think so, but not always true.

I have a friend who lives in an unincorporated area. It's a neighborhood entirely surrounded by the City of Concord, but it receives no city services (water, sewer, garbage; the FD is a joint county/city thing) - the folks who live there have voted against annexation a couple of times, and the City is not interested in forcing the issue.

We just received our quarterly water district newsletter, and his neighborhood is this little blotch of white surrounded by blue.

Lol - where is that? lets all move there and raise livestock and work on our cars in the yard.

SilverTauron
06-09-2012, 4:55 AM
*Raises hand*

Dumb question, but is there not the possibility of *county* regulations in CA that govern the carry and discharge of firearms?
I ask because some counties in Illinois prohibit public discharge of a gun regardless of whether the place its being done at is rural country or down the block from Starbucks.

disturbed1
06-10-2012, 5:22 PM
Lol - where is that? lets all move there and raise livestock and work on our cars in the yard.

There are plenty of areas. I have provided a link above with the codes and laws and explains where these unincorporated areas can be found.

socalphoto
06-10-2012, 11:49 PM
El Modena is very very small. You will get a LOT of attention, either from OPD, OCSD, or the local bangers that live in that area. Add the school zones are you probably talking about only being able to walk down to the end of your street. OPD Gang Unit runs through there all the time btw.

For those that are not familiar with the area. Is is a very heavily populated area. We are not talking about open fields, ranch homes, etc.

Decoligny
06-10-2012, 11:49 PM
Not sure whether we have a terminology confusion here or not, but I live in the CITY of Acton, which is unincorporated land within the COUNTY of Los Angeles.

So, do I live in a city, or on unincorporated land? Or, as everyone around here thinks, both?

Acton likes to refer to itself as "a city", but it is officially listed as "a census designated area" in unincorporated Los Angeles County. To be an official city requires an incorporated city government. Acton has a "town council" not a "city council".

disturbed1
06-11-2012, 12:59 PM
El Modena is very very small. You will get a LOT of attention, either from OPD, OCSD, or the local bangers that live in that area. Add the school zones are you probably talking about only being able to walk down to the end of your street. OPD Gang Unit runs through there all the time btw.

For those that are not familiar with the area. Is is a very heavily populated area. We are not talking about open fields, ranch homes, etc.

Its very populated. Its just like any other city except its unincorporated. We doesnt gets no city services. Yeah, the school is very close to us, in the end I probably wont be to UOC or LOC. But with my research I have found other areas that I can. Those are areas that you have to carry if you are stupid enough to go in there such as Black Star Canyon. Lotta stories about that place. I really want to open carry to get people to change but I dont want to screw things up like with the UOC of rifles. I want to educate people though. I usually try to invite people to shoot with me if they fear guns but I really wish I could show them that carrying is not a bad thing. Just be very safe and take a safety course if you are unsure about it. Not trying to do any rambo stuff here just change one mind at a time.

CitaDeL
06-11-2012, 2:08 PM
Its very populated. Its just like any other city except its unincorporated. We doesnt gets no city services. Yeah, the school is very close to us, in the end I probably wont be to UOC or LOC. But with my research I have found other areas that I can. Those are areas that you have to carry if you are stupid enough to go in there such as Black Star Canyon. Lotta stories about that place. I really want to open carry to get people to change but I dont want to screw things up like with the UOC of rifles. I want to educate people though. I usually try to invite people to shoot with me if they fear guns but I really wish I could show them that carrying is not a bad thing. Just be very safe and take a safety course if you are unsure about it. Not trying to do any rambo stuff here just change one mind at a time.

If you are determined to partake in this activity, I would urge you to do everything you can to multiply your chances for sucess.

Namely;

1) In spite of being in an unincorporated territory where it is presumptively still legal to carry loaded or unloaded, make a conscious effort to take advantage of one or more of the 116 exemptions in PC26350. (About 12 of them can apply to regular people if they put a little effort into it.) A hunting license is about $45 and is one of the simpler exemptions to employ.

2) Do come equipped with actively recording audio or video. (This also can play a part in one of the exemptions of PC26350. If you are video recording your activity and publish your videos on Youtube or burn them on DVD you will be an authorized participant in a 'video production'.) This is however, for your protection in the event that you have an encounter with police.

3) Bring friendly witnesses and be prepared to pass out information such as brochures or cards with a web address so observers will know where to find out more about what you are doing.

4) Have some money set aside for bail and the number of an attorney who specializes in firearms law.

disturbed1
06-12-2012, 5:23 PM
^^awesome advice. Thanks