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el chivo
06-07-2012, 3:41 AM
Has anyone gotten in trouble for not going directly home after a range visit? What constitutes a reasonable deviation? Are they talking about route only, or is time in there too?

This hasn't been a problem for long guns before but it might if AB 1527 passes as is. It sounds like the kind of thing that can be interpreted arbitrarily by different LEO's (and juries).

littlejake
06-07-2012, 6:17 AM
I think those more versed in the law will cite where you're not required to take a direct route as long as your guns are properly in locked containers.

NYsteveZ
06-07-2012, 8:25 AM
Good question. After picking a gun up I wondered on a couple occasions if it was okay to stop at a store. I always end up going home 1st, but was curious if you happen to have a LEO encounter in a parking lot what would happen.

oni.dori
06-07-2012, 9:41 AM
Seeing as how LUCC is legal, I do believe that is just FUD that's been spreading for years.

Decoligny
06-07-2012, 9:53 AM
The "directly to or directly from" issue only concerns transporting firearms while not in a motor vehicle, or when dealing with Registered Assault Weapons.

You can drive around with a non-RAW unloaded and properly locked up pretty much anywhere, with the standard exceptions, i.e. college campuses etc.

Untamed1972
06-07-2012, 9:57 AM
I generally go striaght to and from the range anyway because I dont like leaving my vehicle unattended with guns inside. Having had my vehicle broken into before, the notion just makes me nervous. Doesn't mean I wont make a quick stop for a Big Gulp after the range though. Shootin' makes me thristy :)

Lugiahua
06-07-2012, 11:33 AM
The "directly to or directly from" issue only concerns transporting firearms while not in a motor vehicle, or when dealing with Registered Assault Weapons.

You can drive around with a non-RAW unloaded and properly locked up pretty much anywhere, with the standard exceptions, i.e. college campuses etc.

I always found the college part quite ridiculous
what makes an unloaded firearm more dangerous on campus than other places open to public.

jb7706
06-07-2012, 11:34 AM
Only guns I know of that have a directly to/from law are RAW's. Armed security guards must also follow that rule. You can have your non RAW guns secured properly in your car 24x7 if you want to. Dunno how wise that is, but it's legal

stix213
06-07-2012, 4:39 PM
Transporting RAWs you have to go directly to and from where you are shooting. No unnecessary stops, though getting gas should be fine.

Transporting other firearms while not within a vehicle have destination requirements, but not nearly as strict as RAWs, and include so many exemptions that the only way I would think anyone would get busted would be if they talked themselves into arrest. Keep your mouth shut and good luck to them proving you weren't coming from or going to any of the many destinations exempted.

Transporting within a vehicle you can go pretty much anywhere except for a few specific locations.

IANAL

kcbrown
06-07-2012, 4:48 PM
The "directly to or directly from" issue only concerns transporting firearms while not in a motor vehicle, or when dealing with Registered Assault Weapons.

You can drive around with a non-RAW unloaded and properly locked up pretty much anywhere, with the standard exceptions, i.e. college campuses etc.

Section 25540 lists the target range exemption. There are numerous other allowed travel endpoints, each of which gets a separate section.

Section 25505 lists the locked container requirement and the "no deviations except those reasonably necessary" requirement. It is additive, i.e. compliance with it is necessary but not sufficient. Actual exemption from PC 25400 (the concealed carry prohibition), when one does not have a LTC or is not an exempted person, requires compliance with 25505 as well as with one of the other location exemption sections.


I see no general motor vehicle exemption from PC 25400. There is a "locked container or locked trunk of a motor vehicle" exemption for PC 626.9 (the GFSZ law), as well as for PC 26350 (the open carry prohibition), but exemption from those does not automatically get you an exemption from PC 25400.


The defense against PC 25400 for LUCC is primarily a 4th Amendment defense combined with a (possibly) very liberal interpretation of the "lawful possession of property" clause in PC 25525 (a) (3). Even then, PC 25525 contains a "directly to/from" requirement. It is literally illegal to stop and smell the roses in a public park while between locations.

Librarian
06-07-2012, 4:54 PM
I see no general motor vehicle exemption from PC 25400. There is a "locked container or locked trunk of a motor vehicle" exemption for PC 626.9 (the GFSZ law), as well as for PC 26350 (the open carry prohibition).


That's because old 12026.1 is now at 25610 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/25610.html).

stix213
06-07-2012, 4:58 PM
I see no general motor vehicle exemption from PC 25400. There is a "locked container or locked trunk of a motor vehicle" exemption for PC 626.9 (the GFSZ law), as well as for PC 26350 (the open carry prohibition), but exemption from those does not automatically get you an exemption from PC 25400.


The general motor vehicle exemption from PC 25400 is located in PC 25610

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=25001-26000&file=25600-25655

25610. (a) Section 25400 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with the provisions listed in Section 16580.

edit: damn you librarian ;)

el chivo
06-08-2012, 12:37 AM
I'm thinking of the upcoming AB 1527 for long guns; and this 25610 exemption specifically says it's for concealable guns.

I know that's because at the time, no such exemption was needed for long guns, but if the AB 1527 passes, we'll have the same language for long guns as handguns WITHOUT the 25610-type exemption. That's my concern right now.

------------------------------------------------------------------------update---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, not to worry; I think I see it.

Portantino only applies to carry OUTSIDE a vehicle:

26400. (a) A person is guilty of carrying an unloaded firearm
that is not a handgun in an incorporated city or city and county when
that person carries upon his or her person an unloaded firearm that
is not a handgun outside a vehicle while in the incorporated city or
city and county.

so here's the exception, applying not to the vehicle trip itself, but to any carrying outside the car:

(c) When the firearm is either in a locked container or encased
and it is being transported directly between places where a person is
not prohibited from possessing that firearm and the course of travel
shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as
are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Ducman
06-12-2012, 1:09 PM
Let me get this straight. Lets say on my way to the range or back, I decided to stop by a coffee shop. since I don't trust leaving my gun in an unattended car. can I carry my gun in a lock case (LUCC) will I be breaking any laws if I did this?

Decoligny
06-12-2012, 1:14 PM
Let me get this straight. Lets say on my way to the range or back, I decided to stop by a coffee shop. since I don't trust leaving my gun in an unattended car. can I carry my gun in a lock case (LUCC) will I be breaking any laws if I did this?

(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.

From everything I have read, it is pretty much the concensus that to/from a single point, i.e. one stop at a time, should be fine under the section above. This is because keeping your gun from getting stolen while getting coffee is a "lawful purpose", and you are going directly from your car to get the coffee, and coming directly from getting the coffee to your car.

Stopping to get a coffee, do your grocery shopping, walking around the mall, seeing a movie, getting another coffee, and heading back to your car would probably be a little bit more "iffy".

Some people argue that (2) above makes it legal to carry LUCC pretty much anywhere at any time. I am not so sure that this is the case.

SilverTauron
06-12-2012, 1:22 PM
(c) When the firearm is either in a locked container or encased
and it is being transported directly between places where a person is
not prohibited from possessing that firearm and the course of travel
shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as
are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

It would seem like this was written to avoid the potential dodge of "I wasn't open carrying on the beach officer. I was carrying my gun to the range from my home by taking the LONG way around sir".

Bad as this bill is on principle, its not a 'Directly to or from law'. New Jersey's law on legal gun transport is what falls under that subject, and its light years worse than whats law in CA so far.

(b) Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder;

From :http://law.onecle.com/new-jersey/2c-the-new-jersey-code-of-criminal-justice/39-6.html

In NJ, possession of a handgun is illegal period outside of exemptions , one of which is under the "directly to and from" passage. What does that mean? Whatever the DA says it does I would suppose.

el chivo
06-13-2012, 3:12 AM
Let me get this straight. Lets say on my way to the range or back, I decided to stop by a coffee shop. since I don't trust leaving my gun in an unattended car. can I carry my gun in a lock case (LUCC) will I be breaking any laws if I did this?

I think you might be. Your car, and the target range, are not prohibited places. So you can walk between them, even park a block away, with your locked case.

But, the coffee shop is a prohibited place to bring your gun. So taking your gun out of the car when you're going to a prohibited place would probably be considered a violation.

The idea that making sure your gun doesn't get stolen is a lawful purpose might be a tough one to sell a policeman. And if you get charged they have liberal juries decide if the gun law was broken. I don't like your chances.

At least you can stop for coffee as long as your gun stays in the car. I was worried the "directly from/to" language applied to the car trip too, not just outside the car.

But hey, I'm no expert, if anyone has anything to add, please do.

littlejake
06-13-2012, 8:05 AM
I think you might be. Your car, and the target range, are not prohibited places. So you can walk between them, even park a block away, with your locked case.

But, the coffee shop is a prohibited place to bring your gun. So taking your gun out of the car when you're going to a prohibited place would probably be considered a violation.

The idea that making sure your gun doesn't get stolen is a lawful purpose might be a tough one to sell a policeman. And if you get charged they have liberal juries decide if the gun law was broken. I don't like your chances.

At least you can stop for coffee as long as your gun stays in the car. I was worried the "directly from/to" language applied to the car trip too, not just outside the car.

But hey, I'm no expert, if anyone has anything to add, please do.

A coffee shop is a prohibited place? Prohibited places are codified in the laws -- airports, schools, court houses.