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View Full Version : Making a 30 round magazine into a 10 round magazine?


Kappy
06-05-2012, 6:46 PM
I'm curious... can I buy the 30 round magazine "repair kits" and put a 10 round follower in to make it CA legal? Someone was telling me that was "manufacturing a magazine" which I took to mean that it was illegal.

chrisf
06-05-2012, 6:50 PM
Yes. You can get a block for your magazines. However I would just buy some rebuild kits KEEP THEM APART and your fine. If you want a 10/30 just buy one. Keep the rebuild kits disassembled for when you might need them.

emptybottle151
06-05-2012, 6:52 PM
WTH is a "10 round follower"?

PMHNa70NcdU

kUR31CYk4dg

Whichever way you want to look at it.

Kappy
06-05-2012, 7:23 PM
I guess I meant block?

SVenigma
06-05-2012, 10:48 PM
Homemade 10/30 PMAG by AlohaRover:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=120280

kris smith
06-05-2012, 11:00 PM
Tapco ak mags have a special follower designed to only hold 10 rounds

Jicko
06-05-2012, 11:11 PM
I'm curious... can I buy the 30 round magazine "repair kits" and put a 10 round follower in to make it CA legal? Someone was telling me that was "manufacturing a magazine" which I took to mean that it was illegal.

*In short*

It has be to "permanently" altered. If the build process includes permanently closing the bottom, so that it is impossible to open up without destroying the magazine, then it is OK. But, if there is a way to "reverse" that blocking and make it back into a >10, then it is not OK.

*In details*

Go read the law or better yet, hire your own lawyer when you want legal advises.

m03
06-05-2012, 11:19 PM
If the build process includes permanently closing the bottom, so that it is impossible to open up without destroying the magazine, then it is OK. But, if there is a way to "reverse" that blocking and make it back into a >10, then it is not OK.

In been covered in a few threads before, but there's some debate as to what "permanent" actually entails. Factory 10 round pistol mags aren't epoxied/riveted/etc, even though swapping 1 part on some models can easily convert them into 12+ round mags.

Better safe than sorry, though. I prefer the blocks that can be epoxied to the spring, so that the magazines can still be disassembled for cleaning/maintenance.

Colt562
06-05-2012, 11:29 PM
Well think of hunting with a shotgun, u are only allowed 3 shots so to only allow the 3 shots you install a plug, a plug can be reversed.

steveOsteezy
06-06-2012, 1:55 PM
I would recommend getting 10/30 pmags from magblock.

http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/products/30-round-mag-blocks/ar15-magazines/pmag-10-30-magazine.html

They can be disassembled but are not illegal because the 10/30 mag block is epoxied to the mag spring. So they can also be used in a normal capacity configuration while OOS just by swapping the blocked mag spring with a normal one. I also ordered some of their usgi magblocks that worked well with D&H rebuild kits.

stix213
06-06-2012, 2:23 PM
Buying 10/30 mags already premade is usually the best option now. Nothing wrong with doing it yourself though.

TwinStick
06-06-2012, 2:31 PM
Well think of hunting with a shotgun, u are only allowed 3 shots so to only allow the 3 shots you install a plug, a plug can be reversed.

Hunting laws and firearm laws are different. I'm not supposed to club baby seals, but I'm allowed to own a club.

scglock
06-06-2012, 2:36 PM
Just stick a magblock in and you're set

EddieEd
06-06-2012, 11:04 PM
WTH is a "10 round follower"?



kUR31CYk4dg

Whichever way you want to look at it.

I got to agree with this video because once you put in the 10 rd block it is permanently converted and will no longer take more than 10 rds.
The fact is, everyone says they like this way or that way (glue, pin, screw, duck-tape, voodoo or whatever), and always include “ because later if the laws change I can covert it back to a 30 rd”.
Well no matter what or how you do it, you can always change it back which is no different from any which way.
If I have a 20 rd pmag and put in a 10 rd block follower, it is permanently changed for me. If someone says it isn’t, then they would have to take the mag from me, get a regular 20 rd follower, remove the 10 rd block in my mag to convert it back to a 20 rd mag, and THEY will be breaking the law in CONVERTING a 10 rd mag into a 20 rd mag, not me.
I don’t care who it is, once my mag are changed to 10, they would have to take my mag and break the law to convert them, themselves.

It’s no different then the bullet button, there’s always a way to make things illegal if you wanted to. We try to follow the laws as they are thrown at us, but for someone to say you are breaking the law, they would have to break the law in their attempt to prove their actuations against you.

I hope we’re not changing our justice system to a precog system, Minority Report style, “yes we know you will commit a crime before you even think of it”. :facepalm:

SgtMerc
06-07-2012, 1:52 PM
In been covered in a few threads before, but there's some debate as to what "permanent" actually entails. Factory 10 round pistol mags aren't epoxied/riveted/etc, even though swapping 1 part on some models can easily convert them into 12+ round mags.

Better safe than sorry, though. I prefer the blocks that can be epoxied to the spring, so that the magazines can still be disassembled for cleaning/maintenance.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/regs/fsor.pdf
page 3
978.20(d) - Permanently Altered
As originally noticed to the public, the statutory term “permanently altered” was defined to mean “any irreversible change or alteration.” However, after consideration of public comment received during the initial comment period (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000), the Department determined that the proposed definition failed to provide any additional clarity to the statutory term “permanently altered.” Furthermore, the Department found that none of the comments considered provided additional clarity while maintaining the legislative intent. The term “permanently altered” as used in the statute appears to be sufficiently understood without further definition. As such, the regulations were revised to delete this originally proposed definition and it has not been adopted by the Department.

page 33
The Department agrees that "irreversible" is not synonymous with the word "permanent". The Department has deleted the proposed definition because it believes the phrase “permanently altered” conveys a meaning that is sufficiently understood by reasonable people. None of the alternative definitions considered by the Department added clarity to the inherent meaning of the phrase.


So, reasonably, if you epoxy the block to the spring, you can't revert it without replacing the spring or removing the epoxy holding the spring to the block. To remove the epoxy, you have to disassemble the floorplate and body. Removing the plate creates a mag-kit, not a magazine anymore.

Nite100
06-07-2012, 5:35 PM
I echo what EddieEd just said & concur with the video. If its blocked, it's BLOCKED. You have permanently altered your mag by replacing a part that permanently blocks it's capacity at ten rounds. Do you epoxy or rivet your bullet buttons to your lower? Should convertible bullet buttons be illegal because you don't even need to swap parts to make it illegal, just a small screwdriver.

hefedehefe
06-07-2012, 5:44 PM
Cut two thirds off the spring and the lower half and weld it shut :D

g_conway
06-07-2012, 9:42 PM
*In short*

It has be to "permanently" altered. If the build process includes permanently closing the bottom, so that it is impossible to open up without destroying the magazine, then it is OK. But, if there is a way to "reverse" that blocking and make it back into a >10, then it is not OK.

*In details*

Go read the law or better yet, hire your own lawyer when you want legal advises.

Reversal issue defines "permanant" as requireing a "tool" be used to modify.
Thats why a riveted mag is allowed, yet the rivet can be drilled out after you leave CA.

A block, or insert, is not permanent unless it requires a tool to remove.
(personally, I would think if you need a tool to remove the base plate that would qualify; however everything I can find does not read like that.)

tomibriggs
06-28-2012, 1:29 PM
Reversal issue defines "permanant" as requireing a "tool" be used to modify.
Thats why a riveted mag is allowed, yet the rivet can be drilled out after you leave CA.

A block, or insert, is not permanent unless it requires a tool to remove.
(personally, I would think if you need a tool to remove the base plate that would qualify; however everything I can find does not read like that.)

Somebody probably already asked this question before but just in case.....

So if all it takes to make it "permanent" is the requirement of a "tool" to reverse the alteration, then why not simply use a screw instead of a rivet since a screw also requires a screwdriver(tool) to remove anyway?

Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese
06-28-2012, 3:16 PM
I've bought mag blocks online and for what I paid (5 bucks before shipping), I felt ripped off. Anyone can make mag blocks them self with some material at .99cent store and a dremel tool. Go to .99 cent store and buy a thin cheap chopping block, shape it with your magazines and spring, cut to shape, and epoxy everything together.

shoebox56
06-28-2012, 5:29 PM
I've bought mag blocks online and for what I paid (5 bucks before shipping), I felt ripped off. Anyone can make mag blocks them self with some material at .99cent store and a dremel tool. Go to .99 cent store and buy a thin cheap chopping block, shape it with your magazines and spring, cut to shape, and epoxy everything together.

To add to this, Google for "plastic shop" in your area. You can have many choices of width and strengths. I got lucky in San Diego, there are lots of choices. I purchased dirt cheap scrap that fit my Olympic AR 9mm 30 round magazine. I just had to cut to length.

Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese
06-28-2012, 5:57 PM
Thanks. Btw, its not just a rip off that it cost five bucks each before shipping but the fact that it looked like a cheaply crafted. They work as it should but anyone can make better quality themselves for much less