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View Full Version : PSA Refuses to Ship Ammo to OAK, LA & SF???


ceedubG
06-05-2012, 1:41 PM
For those of you who arent aware, it appears that Palmetto State Armory is refusing to ship ammunition to Oakland, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

I live in Oakland and have purchased ammo (5.56) from PSA several times (shippied to my OAK address) and today I received this ridiculous email. (The kicker is they want to charge me a 10% cancellation fee!!):

"Due to restrictions, we do not ship ammunition into Oakland, Do you have an alternate address to which we can send your order? Also, we can ship to a local UPS hub or store, as long as it outside of the city. If none of these options are viable, we can cancel your order less 10%. Just let me know how you would like to proceed, please note that Oakland is listed as a restricted area in our “terms and agreements” which was agreed to upon placing the order.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/customer-service

Thanks,
Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.788.9095

Up until today Ive had nothing but great things to say about PSA. Im furious and am not sure if this is a new policy, but I thought the forum members who live in those three cities should be aware. I always heard that Cheaper Than Dirt wouldnt ship ammo to CA, but this is getting ridiculous... not only are they not going to honor my order, but they are attmepting to be sneaky and keep 10%!!!

Ive emailed Mr. Dodds and asked him to explain why after several orders they are now not going to ship to me, and how they honestly think its fair to keep 10% of the purchase price.

Id appreciate any input or if others of you have similar stories....

-C

rero360
06-05-2012, 1:58 PM
Big deal, get over it, there are tons more companies that sell ammo for comparable prices that will ship to those locations, I personally have used AIM Surplus a few times in the past with no problems, even had a case of ammo shipped to my work the last time.

Always read the fine print before making big ticket orders online.

onegtalon
06-05-2012, 2:02 PM
I thought those cities had restrictions (local laws) against mail order ammo so it's not really the vendor's fault. (I think luck is also a factor here)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=403266

Find a friend outside of SF and ship to them.

EricSF
06-05-2012, 2:04 PM
Able Ammo supports SF gun owners http://www.ableammo.com/

tuna quesadilla
06-05-2012, 2:06 PM
For those of you who arent aware, it appears that Palmetto State Armory is refusing to ship ammunition to Oakland, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

I live in Oakland and have purchased ammo (5.56) from PSA several times (shippied to my OAK address) and today I received this ridiculous email. (The kicker is they want to charge me a 10% cancellation fee!!):

"Due to restrictions, we do not ship ammunition into Oakland, Do you have an alternate address to which we can send your order? Also, we can ship to a local UPS hub or store, as long as it outside of the city. If none of these options are viable, we can cancel your order less 10%. Just let me know how you would like to proceed, please note that Oakland is listed as a restricted area in our “terms and agreements” which was agreed to upon placing the order.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/customer-service

Thanks,
Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.788.9095

Up until today Ive had nothing but great things to say about PSA. Im furious and am not sure if this is a new policy, but I thought the forum members who live in those three cities should be aware. I always heard that Cheaper Than Dirt wouldnt ship ammo to CA, but this is getting ridiculous... not only are they not going to honor my order, but they are attmepting to be sneaky and keep 10%!!!

Ive emailed Mr. Dodds and asked him to explain why after several orders they are now not going to ship to me, and how they honestly think its fair to keep 10% of the purchase price.

Id appreciate any input or if others of you have similar stories....

-C

It says PLAIN AS DAY on their terms and conditions page that any order to Oakland, among other locations, will not be honored.

You went ahead and placed the order anyways, and now you are costing them man-hours because they have to go in and stop the ticket from reaching the warehouse, reverse the credit card payment, etc.

Thus, the 10% restocking fee.

tba02
06-05-2012, 2:09 PM
That's interesting, and a bummer. I just had them ship me ammo to Oakland 3 weeks ago (watch me screw myself).

Big deal, get over it, there are tons more companies that sell ammo for comparable prices that will ship to those locations

Find me the Gunn 300BLK 130gr SOST cheaper than $14.99/20 (shipped free) please.

Now, I've had ammo shipped to SF and Oakland over the years from various places, and yes, there are alternatives for the common items. When your source for less common (and decent priced) ammo goes away, I'm bummed too. So yeah, it can be a big deal.

And no, geesh, the "restrictions" (SF/OAK) are "interpretations".

ETA: If it weren't for this post I guess I would have been in the same 10% boat as I was just getting ready to place an order. I would have had no reason to look at the terms as outlined today.

ceedubG
06-05-2012, 2:14 PM
The frustration stems from the fact that I have purchased ammo from them before with no problem. My post was meant to inform others in the area that PSA seems to have implemented a new policy, or at the very least they are selectively enforcing a policy.

Additionally, and more importantly, the ammunition web pages for PSA do not mention any where on them that there are location restrictions. Not on the specific ammunition page, not on the order page, not on the payment page. so no, its not PLAIN AS DAY.

I guess judging by the responses, my position isnt very sympathetic or informational.

Well maybe Tba02 can relate at least :D

-C

IPSICK
06-05-2012, 2:23 PM
"...Do you have an alternate address to which we can send your order? Also, we can ship to a local UPS hub or store, as long as it outside of the city...Just let me know how you would like to proceed, please note that Oakland is listed as a restricted area in our “terms and agreements” which was agreed to upon placing the order.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/customer-service

Thanks,
Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.788.9095



Sounds like they're trying to work with you even when their terms and agreements were not reviewed.

tba02
06-05-2012, 2:31 PM
If you haven't canceled, and are considering options, you might see about getting it shipped to:
The UPS Store #4589
2340 POWELL ST
EMERYVILLE, CA 94608
http://www.theupsstorelocal.com/4589/

mike_the_wino
06-05-2012, 2:33 PM
Terms and conditions (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/customer-service), scroll down to ammunition restrictions.

I have seen these restrictions elsewhere. I thought it was city ordinances but if it is 'interpretations' as tba02 asserts, that sucks. :mad:

mike_the_wino
06-05-2012, 2:33 PM
Terms and conditions (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/customer-service), scroll down to ammunition restrictions.

I have seen these restrictions elsewhere. I thought it was city ordinances but if it is 'interpretations' as tba02 asserts, that sucks. :mad:

bonesurf
06-05-2012, 2:35 PM
They don't ship to LA but they do to Santa Monica, West Hollywood, etc.... I imagine it's the same situation in Oakland and SF. Some city ordinance that they are leery of.

scglock
06-05-2012, 2:41 PM
To my knowledge Oakland is one of the restricted cities.

daybreak
06-05-2012, 2:41 PM
big deal, just have it shipped to a UPS hub outside of oakland. That's even better so you don't have to wait around all day for a package to sign for, and/or it doesn't get left on your front door step.

stevied
06-05-2012, 2:47 PM
9.20.010 Title.
This chapter shall be known as the ammunition sales registration ordinance. (Ord. 11848 § 1 (part), 1995; prior code § 2-12.01)
9.20.020 Findings and purpose.
The City Council finds that the state of California has not preempted the enactment of a municipal ordinance requiring the registration of ammunition sales in Oakland, and further finds that the availability of such ammunition sales records can aid the police department in investigations of major crimes involving the use of firearms. The intent of the City Council in enacting the ordinance codified in this chapter is to implement a requirement that ammunition vendors within the city record and maintain records with respect to each individual purchase of ammunition, so that the purchaser can be traced in the event the ammunition were used in the commission of criminal activity. (Ord. 11848 § 1 (part), 1995; prior code § 2-12.02)
9.20.030 Definitions.
As used in this chapter: "Ammunition" means a projectile designated to be expelled by force of an explosion, and intended for use in any firearm, including pistols, revolvers, rifles, and shotguns.
"Vendor" means any individual, person, gun dealer, store, firm or corporation selling ammunition within the city of Oakland. (Ord. 11848 § 1 (part), 1995; prior code § 2-12.03)
9.20.040 Record of ammunition sales.
Every vendor who sells ammunition in the city shall maintain a record of ammunition sales as prescribed by this chapter. The record shall be maintained on the vendor's premises, on forms supplied by, or approved by, the Oakland Police Department (OPD). An ammunition purchaser must provide to the vendor and the vendor shall record the following information:
A. The date of the transaction;
B. The purchaser's name, address and date of birth;
C. The purchaser's valid driver's license number or other identification number from a valid photographic I.D. such as a passport;
D. The brand of ammunition purchased;
E. The type and amount of ammunition purchased; and
F. The purchaser's signature and vendor's initials.
The information required to be recorded shall be maintained in chronological order by date of sale of the ammunition and shall be retained on the business premises of the vendor for a period not less than two years following the date of the recorded sale of the ammunition.
Oakland police officers may enter a vendor's premises during regular business hours for the purpose of examining, inspecting or copying records required by this chapter. (Ord. 11848 § 1 (part), 1995; prior code § 2-12.04)

tacticalcity
06-05-2012, 2:53 PM
I never understood why people get mad at the vendor, when it is their State and local governments that are causing the issue with confusing laws that make zero sense.

As for being able to do so in the past, that is fine. But something clearly changed. Either the vendor had an incident or new legislation was passed, or somebody brought legislation they were unaware of to their attention. Doesn't matter exactly what caused them to get more cautious, it's still not their fault.

daybreak
06-05-2012, 2:56 PM
thread should be entitled:

OP Refuses to read directions and policies???

JDW67
06-05-2012, 3:03 PM
thread should be entitled:

OP Refuses to read directions and policies???

Yep...

I just have my ammo sent to a buddy in a neighboring city.

ceedubG
06-05-2012, 3:13 PM
Tough crowd......

I withdraw any request for sympathy! :)

Im glad to know the rest of you are much better at reading then I am.....

-C

baffomet
06-05-2012, 3:28 PM
Tough crowd......

I withdraw any request for sympathy! :)

Im glad to know the rest of you are much better at reading then I am.....

-C

I hear what you're saying. There's a lot of people on the board that have a mightier than thou attitude.

Thanks for the heads up though. I was actually going to order some ammo from them since they had free shipping.

Funny thing is that I've had ammo shipped to my address in Oakland just recently and had no problems. Oh well...

ceedubG
06-05-2012, 3:32 PM
Baffomet,

Thanks, and glad I was able to provide some current information to you about PSA's (new) policy (?) or lack or consistant application of said policy.

Yeah, PSA shipped ammo to me in March and April 2012 with no problems.

SFSig
06-05-2012, 3:33 PM
Tough crowd......

I withdraw any request for sympathy! :)

Im glad to know the rest of you are much better at reading then I am.....

-C

I'm in the same boat. Haven't gotten the letter yet, but did just place an order with them. I also received a shipment from the less than two weeks ago...

I wouldn't and didn't think to read the fine print just after a successfully completed order... If I do get that letter I'll be shipping to a friends house I guess.

tba02
06-05-2012, 4:18 PM
9.20.010 Title.
This chapter shall be known as the ammunition sales registration ordinance. (Ord. 11848 § 1 (part), 1995; prior code § 2-12.01)
9.20.020 Findings and purpose.
The City Council finds that the state of California has not preempted the enactment of a municipal ordinance requiring the registration of ammunition sales in Oakland, and further finds that the availability of such ammunition sales records can aid the police department in investigations of major crimes involving the use of firearms. The intent of the City Council in enacting the ordinance codified in this chapter is to implement a requirement that ammunition vendors within the city record and maintain records with respect to each individual purchase of ammunition, so that the purchaser can be traced in the event the ammunition were used in the commission of criminal activity. (Ord. 11848 § 1 (part), 1995; prior code § 2-12.02)
9.20.030 Definitions.
As used in this chapter: "Ammunition" means a projectile designated to be expelled by force of an explosion, and intended for use in any firearm, including pistols, revolvers, rifles, and shotguns.
"Vendor" means any individual, person, gun dealer, store, firm or corporation selling ammunition within the city of Oakland. (Ord. 11848 § 1 (part), 1995; prior code § 2-12.03)
9.20.040 Record of ammunition sales.
Every vendor who sells ammunition in the city shall maintain a record of ammunition sales as prescribed by this chapter. The record shall be maintained on the vendor's premises, on forms supplied by, or approved by, the Oakland Police Department (OPD). An ammunition purchaser must provide to the vendor and the vendor shall record the following information:
A. The date of the transaction;
B. The purchaser's name, address and date of birth;
C. The purchaser's valid driver's license number or other identification number from a valid photographic I.D. such as a passport;
D. The brand of ammunition purchased;
E. The type and amount of ammunition purchased; and
F. The purchaser's signature and vendor's initials.
The information required to be recorded shall be maintained in chronological order by date of sale of the ammunition and shall be retained on the business premises of the vendor for a period not less than two years following the date of the recorded sale of the ammunition.
Oakland police officers may enter a vendor's premises during regular business hours for the purpose of examining, inspecting or copying records required by this chapter. (Ord. 11848 § 1 (part), 1995; prior code § 2-12.04)

My IANAL references to "interpretation" are listed above in red. My interpretation of "within the city" would be to have a physical presence or store front. The reference to Oakland police entering a vendor's premises would seem to back that theory. However, were it to mean otherwise, I'd like to know how Oakland police are going to have access to business establishments outside of Oakland.

IPSICK
06-05-2012, 4:34 PM
My IANAL references to "interpretation" are listed above in red. My interpretation of "within the city" would be to have a physical presence or store front. The reference to Oakland police entering a vendor's premises would seem to back that theory. However, were it to mean otherwise, I'd like to know how Oakland police are going to have access to business establishments outside of Oakland.

Conversely, private businesses can interpret the ordinance any way they see fit.

However, I do agree with your interpretation and maybe the OP can use your reading of the ordinance to convince PSA to reconsider their policy. I believe as forum sponsors they are likely to be more flexible than CTD or Sportsman's.

tba02
06-05-2012, 5:07 PM
Conversely, private businesses can interpret the ordinance any way they see fit.

Most certainly and I am not attacking PSA nor others for covering their butts (well maybe CTD :chris:). I get it.

I do hope some conversation with PSA can change things for the better. I can empathize with the OP seeing as the policy, or enforcement of, caught him off guard as it would have myself seeing as we both have had ammo delivered from them recently.

SolarFlare
06-05-2012, 5:14 PM
It says PLAIN AS DAY on their terms and conditions page that any order to Oakland, among other locations, will not be honored.

You went ahead and placed the order anyways, and now you are costing them man-hours because they have to go in and stop the ticket from reaching the warehouse, reverse the credit card payment, etc.

Thus, the 10% restocking fee.
If only there was some kind of magical technology that could let an online shopping system compare the shipping address city and/or ZipCode to a blacklist, and automatically reject the order before it's even placed :)

IPSICK
06-05-2012, 5:16 PM
Most certainly and I am not attacking PSA nor others for covering their butts (well maybe CTD :chris:). I get it.

I do hope some conversation with PSA can change things for the better. I can empathize with the OP seeing as the policy, or enforcement of, caught him off guard as it would have myself seeing as we both have had ammo delivered from them recently.

Just sucks that SF and OAK have similar Ack Bassward policies. Oakland politicians especially continue to ruin a city I once called home.

GMG
06-05-2012, 6:57 PM
Thanks for the link, didn't know they had free shipping.

stix213
06-05-2012, 6:59 PM
It says PLAIN AS DAY on their terms and conditions page that any order to Oakland, among other locations, will not be honored.

You went ahead and placed the order anyways, and now you are costing them man-hours because they have to go in and stop the ticket from reaching the warehouse, reverse the credit card payment, etc.

Thus, the 10% restocking fee.

The OP should have read their policies, but charging a restocking fee for this is ridiculous, as the problem is caused by their poor website design, not the OP. It is trivially simple to setup the website to prevent orders to Oakland from being accepted.

If I were the OP, I'd stop payment on the CC charge and don't let them rip you off for 10% because they are too lazy to add 1 line of code to their website. Should just need something like:

if($destination_city =~ m/(O|o)akland/) { #call page reload with message Oakland orders are not allowed here }

NSR500
06-05-2012, 8:11 PM
OP can't read so he blames the Vendor. :facepalm:

chrisf
06-05-2012, 9:43 PM
Can you blame them?

MrExel17
06-05-2012, 11:44 PM
thread should be entitled:

OP Refuses to read directions and policies???

Thats what I thinking too

jdberger
06-05-2012, 11:50 PM
FEDEX has a ground hub off Davis Street right next to the Oakland Airport. They're open until 8 or something. They're super nice, too. Simply have your stuff drop shipped there.

So worth it.

When you're done, you can always run the 500 feet to the San Leandro Rifle Range and make sure you didn't get a dud shipment (no FMJ on the rifle lines).

Perfecto.

ceedubG
06-06-2012, 9:14 AM
Just because I'm a glutton for punishment......

The shipping restriction and 10% fee policies are not placed prominently on ANY of the ordering pages.

As a vendor if you are going to limit shipping locations, and on top of that charge customers 10%, you better well place that policy in a location that is conspicuous, not a tiny link at the top or bottom of the items page next to the rest of the navigation bar options.

1. There is no mention of any shipping restrictions, 10% restocking fee or other warnings on the "Billing page"

2. There is no mention of any shipping restrictions, 10% restocking fee or other warnings on the the "Shipping page"

3. There is no mention of any shipping restrictions, 10% restocking fee or other warnings on the "credit card page"

4. And.... the coup de gace, there is NO mention of any shipping restrictions, 10% restocking fee or other warnings on the "Review Order Page"

Four out of five pages state nothing about ordering restrictions. Policies should be placed in a location where the customer is going to see them.

So, I await the continued flogging, but if youre telling me that I failed to read the policies and procedures and that they were CLEAR AS DAY, you get a big gold star for the day! :D I'll even give you your choice of a five point gold star or a six point gold star!!

-C

IPSICK
06-06-2012, 9:29 AM
So are you just going to continue to complain or have you started a dialogue with PSA to get this resolved?

Complaining without working towards resolution is non-productive unless you just need to be cathartic and vent (a-k-a...b-i-t-c-h and m-o-a-n).

ceedubG
06-06-2012, 9:35 AM
IPSICK:

No, No... I emailed Mr. Dodds back right after I received his email, still no response, but it hasnt been a day and it took about seven days for me to get his first email after my order, so Im not expecting anything for a bit...

I will update this string when PSA contacts me. I expect they will handle it properly, as they have previously been great with orders and shipping times.

And my initial post was meant to mostly to inform those in the three cities if they werent aware, as well as to vent a little (and apparently get verbally beat on this string by better readers! :D)

jonzer77
06-06-2012, 9:39 AM
I am going to place a ammo order through Palmetto right meow :)

IPSICK
06-06-2012, 10:05 AM
IPSICK:

No, No... I emailed Mr. Dodds back right after I received his email, still no response, but it hasnt been a day and it took about seven days for me to get his first email after my order, so Im not expecting anything for a bit...

I will update this string when PSA contacts me. I expect they will handle it properly, as they have previously been great with orders and shipping times.

And my initial post was meant to mostly to inform those in the three cities if they werent aware, as well as to vent a little (and apparently get verbally beat on this string by better readers! :D)

OK, cool bananas. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution. Btw, kudos for sticking it out in Oakland. The town still has plenty of potential.

AKSOG
06-06-2012, 10:12 AM
I had this problem with Brownells shipping to Orange County claiming it was a part of LA county (Not sure how they came to that conclusion). They were quite adamant that it was not legal to ship here. I put up a fuss with their customer service but it was futile.

ZX-10R
06-07-2012, 7:16 AM
I blame that on the voters there so no one gets my sympathy. I have my stuff shipped to Santa Barbara county.

IPSICK
06-07-2012, 7:45 AM
I blame that on the voters there so no one gets my sympathy. I have my stuff shipped to Santa Barbara county.

Wow, how very "Free America"-ish of you. You sound like the rest of gun-owning America who say it's "our" fault for the gun laws in this state.

ceedubG
06-07-2012, 10:44 AM
+1 IPSICK

Oh, and BTW there is no law in Oakland prohibiting shipping and receiving of rifle (or hand gun for that matter) ammunition through the mail to an Oakland address. The only relevant Municipal Codes relate to buying ammunition at a brick and mortar location in Oakland.

So Im not sure how I can blame the gun laws on this one.....

mnh2obuff
06-08-2012, 6:06 AM
I live in Sac County and Sac City has the restrictions and I've had mixed results from various shippers. I emailed PSA and this is their response:

Jeff,
That is not a problem, we recently removed all restrictions to Sacramento, The only cities in CA we have restrictions on shipping ammunition are Oakland, Los Angeles, and San Francisco.

Thanks,
Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.788.9095

IPSICK
06-08-2012, 8:21 AM
I live in Sac County and Sac City has the restrictions and I've had mixed results from various shippers. I emailed PSA and this is their response:

Jeff,
That is not a problem, we recently removed all restrictions to Sacramento, The only cities in CA we have restrictions on shipping ammunition are Oakland, Los Angeles, and San Francisco.

Thanks,
Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.788.9095

Hopefully they are just as helpful when they re-read the content of the Oakland ordinance.

ceedubG
06-08-2012, 9:42 AM
By way of up date, this was my initial email sent once I found out PSA wouldnt ship ammo to Oakland:

Daniel,
Over the past 3 months Ive purchased ammunition from PSA several times with absolutely no problems or restrictions. No one has ever contacted me about ammunition concerns in the past. Neither Alameda County nor the City of Oakland have any regulations prohibiting me from having 5.56 or .223 ammunition mailed to me. Please explain why on this occasion you have now decided to not ship to me.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.
-C

This was the response I received yesterday:

Those orders must have slipped by, please let me know how you would like to proceed as stated below.

Thanks,
Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.788.9095

As of yet Mr. Dodds has not explained why the PSA policy prevents ammunition shipment to Oakland.

I think its also noteworthy that Palmetto State Armory appears to be a supporter of Calguns.org, yet by arbitrarily refusing certain purchases (considered lawful by the City and County) they are being very selective in the California gun owners they choose to support.

Should PSA ultimately refuse to ship my order and keep the 10% I would certainly urge the members of Calguns to think twice about supporting a company who does not fully support all of California gun owners.

LA, Oakland, and San Francisco make up over 13% of California's population. The ammunition laws of Oakland are no different than the other cities in the State, so why is PSA arbitrarily refusing to do business with us? Sorry, but that's not supporting California and PSA should be called out for it.

-C

ebencikiv
06-08-2012, 7:50 PM
Did not read all the other posts. I live in alameda if you want ship it to my house pm me for my address, least I coud do for a local calgunner. If not good luck!

morfeeis
06-09-2012, 6:20 AM
Just because I'm a glutton for punishment......

The shipping restriction and 10% fee policies are not placed prominently on ANY of the ordering pages.

As a vendor if you are going to limit shipping locations, and on top of that charge customers 10%, you better well place that policy in a location that is conspicuous, not a tiny link at the top or bottom of the items page next to the rest of the navigation bar options.

1. There is no mention of any shipping restrictions, 10% restocking fee or other warnings on the "Billing page"

2. There is no mention of any shipping restrictions, 10% restocking fee or other warnings on the the "Shipping page"

3. There is no mention of any shipping restrictions, 10% restocking fee or other warnings on the "credit card page"

4. And.... the coup de gace, there is NO mention of any shipping restrictions, 10% restocking fee or other warnings on the "Review Order Page"

Four out of five pages state nothing about ordering restrictions. Policies should be placed in a location where the customer is going to see them.

So, I await the continued flogging, but if youre telling me that I failed to read the policies and procedures and that they were CLEAR AS DAY, you get a big gold star for the day! :D I'll even give you your choice of a five point gold star or a six point gold star!!

-C
Don't worry i bet all those screaming at you from atop their mountains have always read all of the T&C on everything they own, even the 100 page document that is issued on the computers they are on now.

RuggedJay
06-09-2012, 7:33 AM
Ya, OP. Read!

g17owner
06-09-2012, 12:03 PM
I would just refute the 10% charge on the restocking fee as it wasn't clearly stated on the billing, shipping, credit card or order review page. It isn't unrealistic to think that you didn't think there would be an issue since you just ordered from them. The correct customer service response from them would be something like 'we regret to inform you that we no longer ship to your area due to pending litigation and we cannot fulfill your order at this time. Thank you for your patronage'. The 10% is just BS and inline with the companies that bill you even though they don't have an item in stock and leave you hanging for months.

IPSICK
06-09-2012, 4:33 PM
I'd like to think at this point they'd consider refunding the whole amount to maintain a good relationship/reputation with their CA customers. I realize you posted this in Rifles to get more general responses from the forum but have you also considered PM'ing through this site. They are a forum sponsor and have their own Calguns user ID and sub-forum. Not sure about the forum rules but maybe you post a complaint thread in their Calguns sub-forum.

motogenius
06-10-2012, 12:00 AM
Considering you have made several purchases without issues, i know what your saying about the 10% cancelation fee....but you gotta understand they are in the business of making money. They most likely paid merchant fees/overhead costs to originally process the order. I run an online business and hate explaining this to people especially when it could possibly lose any future sales. I know its hard to understand and seems wrong, trust me. More often then not, I will normally take the loss in the end....so I recommend just emailing the owner/manager and explaining this to him. I'm sure they weren't aware of this and would be more then happy to help out. If not...then you have many other shops to do business with. They would be shooting themselves in the foot for not helping you out...you sometimes gotta take a loss to keep the customer happy..just part of business.

AlliedArmory
06-10-2012, 1:46 AM
Your situation sure sucks, but that is their policy which you agreed to. Hopefully it works out for you.

About the 10% cancellation fee. It sucks, but is part of ordering online. Once the order was placed, they get charged 2-2.5% + a transaction fee for your order. Then when refunding it, they get dinged another fee and then add on man hours.

It doesn't work for all sites, but we don't charge a customers credit card until the day it ships out.

Maybe you can get a response here since they are site sponsors.

durandal
06-10-2012, 3:31 AM
I hear what you're saying. There's a lot of people on the board that have a mightier than thou attitude.

Thanks for the heads up though. I was actually going to order some ammo from them since they had free shipping.

Funny thing is that I've had ammo shipped to my address in Oakland just recently and had no problems. Oh well...

Its one of the friendliest places in the world.. :sarcasm:

By way of up date, this was my initial email sent once I found out PSA wouldnt ship ammo to Oakland:

Daniel,
Over the past 3 months Ive purchased ammunition from PSA several times with absolutely no problems or restrictions. No one has ever contacted me about ammunition concerns in the past. Neither Alameda County nor the City of Oakland have any regulations prohibiting me from having 5.56 or .223 ammunition mailed to me. Please explain why on this occasion you have now decided to not ship to me.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.
-C

This was the response I received yesterday:

Those orders must have slipped by, please let me know how you would like to proceed as stated below.

Thanks,
Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.788.9095

As of yet Mr. Dodds has not explained why the PSA policy prevents ammunition shipment to Oakland.

I think its also noteworthy that Palmetto State Armory appears to be a supporter of Calguns.org, yet by arbitrarily refusing certain purchases (considered lawful by the City and County) they are being very selective in the California gun owners they choose to support.

Should PSA ultimately refuse to ship my order and keep the 10% I would certainly urge the members of Calguns to think twice about supporting a company who does not fully support all of California gun owners.

LA, Oakland, and San Francisco make up over 13% of California's population. The ammunition laws of Oakland are no different than the other cities in the State, so why is PSA arbitrarily refusing to do business with us? Sorry, but that's not supporting California and PSA should be called out for it.

-C

Instead of refusing to ship to you under the guise of it supposedly being illegal, they should COMPLY WITH LOCAL LAWS and just keep the appropriate records of the transactions... And most importantly, keep us as customers.

tonelar
06-10-2012, 3:36 AM
I thought those cities had restrictions (local laws) against mail order ammo so it's not really the vendor's fault. (I think luck is also a factor here)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=403266

Find a friend outside of SF and ship to them.

i realize folks post on these threads to try and help out. how about checking your facts before spreading fud? nothing illegal about buying mail order ammo and having it shipped into San Francisco.

durandal
06-10-2012, 3:40 AM
i realize folks post on these threads to try and help out. how about checking your facts before spreading fud? nothing illegal about buying mail order ammo and having it shipped into San Francisco.

No, its not "illegal", and its maddening that these vendors say that it is because they do not want to keep records in compliance with city ord.

Same as vendors that wont ship to Cal. Because they wont do the extra paperwork.

OP you can create the form for them and submit it with a copy of your CA DL and also attach a copy of the appropriate law. Hard to argue with that.

tonelar
06-10-2012, 3:57 AM
Pretty ironic that the very people commenting that OP should "read" are clearly not reading post #1.

I don't usually re-read the shipping policies of online vendors I've purchased from succesfully in the past.

I've ordered AR uppers, ammo etc from Palmetto before, I'll just put them on my no buy list.

fusionstar
06-10-2012, 10:02 AM
Its great that they FINALLY removed Sacramento count off that dumb list. But They left a bad taste in my mouth when I sent them several emails with the regulations with several PD letters stating that it was perfectly legal and I got shunned.

NHP1127
06-10-2012, 2:53 PM
Who can blame vendors for being so confused on Kali's screwed up gun laws. What a joke it is to do business here.

tuna quesadilla
06-10-2012, 3:20 PM
Pretty ironic that the very people commenting that OP should "read" are clearly not reading post #1.

I don't usually re-read the shipping policies of online vendors I've purchased from succesfully in the past.

I do. Conducting a business transaction without being sure of the terms and conditions is stupid at best.

I've ordered AR uppers, ammo etc from Palmetto before, I'll just put them on my no buy list.

Because somebody else made a rookie mistake that cost PSA money? Lol...

g17owner
06-10-2012, 3:52 PM
I do. Conducting a business transaction without being sure of the terms and conditions is stupid at best.



Because somebody else made a rookie mistake that cost PSA money? Lol...

So you know about every transaction he has had with PSA? Your comments are stupid at best. Maybe you should just pipe down and stop trying to inflame the thread. :rolleyes:

motogenius
06-10-2012, 4:12 PM
I'm sure the OP learned a lesson here and will read the fine print on future orders. I don't blame the guy...if I had made several successful transactions from a reputable business with no obvious "red flag" warnings...I would have assumed everything was good too.

I still think its worth asking to waive the cancellation fee...never hurts to ask. Not sure what the total cost was, but if they are not willing to budge on their policies maybe you can have them give store credit/gift card...then sell the store credit for a 5% loss to a member? That would be less money lost on your end. Money is money and if someone was going to place an order with them anyways it might benefit all parties

Just a thought...only trying to help.

IPSICK
06-10-2012, 4:34 PM
Your situation sure sucks, but that is their policy which you agreed to. Hopefully it works out for you.

About the 10% cancellation fee. It sucks, but is part of ordering online. Once the order was placed, they get charged 2-2.5% + a transaction fee for your order. Then when refunding it, they get dinged another fee and then add on man hours.

It doesn't work for all sites, but we don't charge a customers credit card until the day it ships out.

Maybe you can get a response here since they are site sponsors.

Best response yet.

Helps to see both sides of this. I hope PSA updates their website to prevent these types of orders if they are still insisting to refuse shipment to Oakland.

If they don't provide any type of productive response, which for the most part they really haven't. They probably deserve the minor black eye this will give them to their customer base.

Eljay
06-10-2012, 4:52 PM
You people are so full of it. Like every time you order from somebody you hunt down every terms and conditions and policy page on their website and read it even though you've ordered through them before.

So if Amazon puts some text on their website saying if you order something they can have your car and guns that's OK too? Geeze.

Personally I appreciate the heads up, and won't be ordering anything from PSA even though I'm not in Oakland. Why? Because it's a douche move to add fees on a subpage somewhere and not add something like "we don't ship ammo to the following places" in the product description or someplace else obvious like every single other vendor has somehow managed to do.

Bobby Ricigliano
06-10-2012, 4:56 PM
High crime cities that think that they are keeping the citizenry safe by outlawing online ammo sales. It would be funny if not so pathetic.

Tinknocker
06-10-2012, 8:13 PM
like you said they sent to me before by mistake hopefully the feds don't come knocking and accuse you of illegal trafficking, I know other companies state up front that they don't ship to specific cities in and out of Calif. if you want you can ship it to my address I live nearby in Santa Ana its only about 8 hrs south! LOL

tonelar
06-13-2012, 10:24 PM
I do. Conducting a business transaction without being sure of the terms and conditions is stupid at best.



Because somebody else made a rookie mistake that cost PSA money? Lol...

Ok Tuna, he ordered and received ammo from them in the past. How is that a rookie mistake?

Someone else mentioned extra paperwork for ammo sellers shipping into SF. Untrue, the record keepong provision in SF's ordinance is for business operating in the city of SF.

tvfreakarms
06-14-2012, 2:17 AM
Well i think the restocking fee is kind of silly. Im sure its from their own store. They would of checked the order b4 shipping it out.

tuna quesadilla
06-14-2012, 2:32 AM
Ok Tuna, he ordered and received ammo from them in the past. How is that a rookie mistake?

Someone else mentioned extra paperwork for ammo sellers shipping into SF. Untrue, the record keepong provision in SF's ordinance is for business operating in the city of SF.

You are putting words in my mouth. I said nothing of the sort.

tuna quesadilla
06-14-2012, 2:34 AM
You people are so full of it. Like every time you order from somebody you hunt down every terms and conditions and policy page on their website and read it even though you've ordered through them before.


Ordering a couple extra Nalgenes for my overnight hike in a couple of weeks? No, I won't look at the terms and conditions.

Ordering something sensitive like ammunition or firearms parts when I know I live in the loopiest state in the union and there are more municipal laws than I can keep track of? You bet I'm gonna skim the T&C to see if there's anything that applies to my purchase.

IPSICK
06-14-2012, 8:41 AM
Well i think the restocking fee is kind of silly. Im sure its from their own store. They would of checked the order b4 shipping it out.

Read Allied Armory 's post regarding credit card fees. 10% is probably reasonable.

ceedubG
06-14-2012, 11:07 AM
UPDATE:

PSA has agreed to refund my full purchase price, which I think is the right thing to do.

Unfortunately, they will not explain why they won't ship to OAK, SF, or LA. They are aware that Oakland Muni Code 9.20.010 does not apply to them, regardless, they refuse to ship.

So, although they did the right thing, I still am frustrated at the lack of explanation as to WHY they refuse to ship. Again, I think PSA is only selectively supporting ALL of us as California gun owners, and that's not right.

I would suggest that members of this forum look to do business with those companies who truly support CA gun owners..... which apparently does not include PSA.

-C

IPSICK
06-14-2012, 11:45 AM
UPDATE:

PSA has agreed to refund my full purchase price, which I think is the right thing to do.

Unfortunately, they will not explain why they won't ship to OAK, SF, or LA. They are aware that Oakland Muni Code 9.20.010 does not apply to them, regardless, they refuse to ship.

So, although they did the right thing, I still am frustrated at the lack of explanation as to WHY they refuse to ship. Again, I think PSA is only selectively supporting ALL of us as California gun owners, and that's not right.

I would suggest that members of this forum look to do business with those companies who truly support CA gun owners..... which apparently does not include PSA.

-C

Seems a little much since they did refund you the full purchase price. Now you just need to find vendors that will ship to you. They do lose your business.

speedrrracer
06-14-2012, 12:17 PM
So, although they did the right thing, I still am frustrated at the lack of explanation as to WHY they refuse to ship. Again, I think PSA is only selectively supporting ALL of us as California gun owners, and that's not right.


Try not to let it get to you. You're speaking to some $8/hr customer-help person, or maybe some mid-level manager at best. These people aren't privy to the "why"s at the corporate level.

Plus, even if the owner / highest-up-the-ladder person were to tell you why, it would probably be something like, "CA laws are so f'ed up that the amount of money my legal team would charge me to ensure compliance is less than the increase in estimated profits"

ceedubG
06-14-2012, 12:49 PM
+1 probably true Speedrracer.....

ceedubG
06-15-2012, 8:49 AM
And just to wrap this rant/thread/alert up:

The reason PSA doesn't ship ammunition to 13% of California is.... Drum Roll.... 'cause other "Reputable Companies" have the same policy!

Ye ole' "if you jump off the bridge I will" philosophy our parents questioned us about so long ago.

The EMAIL:


C,

No problem, I canceled and refunded that order. It is simply a company policy, and one that many other reputable companies share. If there is anything else I can do for you, please let me know!

Thanks,

Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.788.9095

So this closes my PSA vent, and, as GI Joe said, now you know, and knowing is half the battle. But in this case dont go into battle counting on ammo from PSA! :D

tuna quesadilla
06-15-2012, 11:28 AM
And just to wrap this rant/thread/alert up:

The reason PSA doesn't ship ammunition to 13% of California is.... Drum Roll.... 'cause other "Reputable Companies" have the same policy!

Ye ole' "if you jump off the bridge I will" philosophy our parents questioned us about so long ago.

The EMAIL:


C,

No problem, I canceled and refunded that order. It is simply a company policy, and one that many other reputable companies share. If there is anything else I can do for you, please let me know!

Thanks,

Daniel Dodds
Palmetto State Armory
803.788.9095

So this closes my PSA vent, and, as GI Joe said, now you know, and knowing is half the battle. But in this case dont go into battle counting on ammo from PSA! :D

Actually that's not at all what they said... but I understand you're just a pissed-off consumer looking to prove something. By all means keep spreading misinformation.

ETA: Here, I'll make it easy for you. Read the bolded part again. They didn't say that they do it BECAUSE other companies do it. They basically said "Look dude, obviously you're irrational and pissed off. We're refunding the order. Deal with it. And look, we're not the only ones who have this policy either."