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bcj128
06-05-2012, 8:47 AM
With Mr Yee's stupidity running unchecked, I am considering converting my JD Machine BB lower to a featureless. (I bought the lower to replace my RAW lower that I have to turn in on retirement...). I can then put on the mag release and use my hi caps...

Has anyone used the U15 stock to go featureless? At almost $200 it's a big investment, do I want to know its worth it. Also, has it passed DOJ / Court scrutiny so i dont have to worry about being a teast case.

Any other suggestions as to other good featureless products?

jchen76@gmail.com
06-05-2012, 8:54 AM
Used the U15 on a build years ago. It was pretty nice, I don't have large hands but some complained of too small of grip between buffer tube and stock. It did add couple pounds to the rifle. On side note, since it is made from wood you can use it smash in zombie heads or break down doors. I liked it, had it for while but went to bullet button since it the rifle was quite heavy with the U15.

There's no DOJ approval on this nor there ever be for u15.

Other products is exile machine's hammer head grip, never used but quite versatile with stock options
https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/exile-machine-hammerhead-ar-15-grip-black-1.html

Or classic monster man grip
http://www.monstermangrip.com/

Or http://www.solartactical.com/SOLAR-TACTICAL-KYDEX-GRIP-WRAP-FEATURELESS-BUILDS_c19.htm

taperxz
06-05-2012, 8:58 AM
With Mr Yee's stupidity running unchecked, I am considering converting my JD Machine BB lower to a featureless. (I bought the lower to replace my RAW lower that I have to turn in on retirement...). I can then put on the mag release and use my hi caps...

Has anyone used the U15 stock to go featureless? At almost $200 it's a big investment, do I want to know its worth it. Also, has it passed DOJ / Court scrutiny so i dont have to worry about being a teast case.

Any other suggestions as to other good featureless products?

What does the senator have to do with a BB lower?

ElvenSoul
06-05-2012, 9:04 AM
Lots of info on featureless here
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=253777

bcj128
06-05-2012, 9:11 AM
Taperx,

He's put out SB249 to ban bullet buttons and similar systems. Bill is not well written and leaves a lot of questions.

taperxz
06-05-2012, 9:15 AM
Currently, it does not have language that bans BB's

It only bans "things" that prohibit converting a fixed mag rifle into an AW.

jwkincal
06-05-2012, 9:23 AM
Are these things still available? They are expensive but I think it will be my choice for a featureless.

The website doesn't have a store, and the link to the subbed manufacturer arrives at a page which doesn't list the U15 at all...

jchen76@gmail.com
06-05-2012, 9:26 AM
Are these things still available? They are expensive but I think it will be my choice for a featureless.

The website doesn't have a store, and the link to the subbed manufacturer arrives at a page which doesn't list the U15 at all...

Limited run when it first came out, the creator was thinking about doing another run, but nothing has moved since 2009. You may find them in some stores tucked away, bought one from Irvington Arms in 2007.

bcj128
06-05-2012, 9:27 AM
Currently, it does not have language that bans BB's

It only bans "things" that prohibit converting a fixed mag rifle into an AW.

In essence it bans the bullet button and similar devices. However, its so poorly written the unintended consequences can get pretty bad. Merely the possession of one is illegal. That would include the one you "possess" as part of your rifle.

taperxz
06-05-2012, 9:29 AM
In essence it bans the bullet button and similar devices. However, its so poorly written the unintended consequences can get pretty bad. Merely the possession of one is illegal. That would include the one you "possess" as part of your rifle.

You ve been reading to much of the Yee thread. Your analysis of the currently written bill is wrong.

But, to each his own.

sargenv
06-05-2012, 9:30 AM
I picked upa U15 from someone onhere some time ago.. I like it better than any other stock. For featureless, I think it is one of the better solutions.. I like it.

bcj128
06-05-2012, 9:33 AM
where can you get the U15? I don't even see a shop for them.

Spaceghost
06-05-2012, 9:43 AM
The only place you might find a U-15 is here on the market place. I have one and like it. It is really heavy for a carbine. I ran a class with one and it was a heavy ***** by the end of the day. Plus it's hard to hold the rifle exactly straight down with the angle of grip. FWIW.

I use mine for a precision rifle.

tenpercentfirearms
06-05-2012, 10:40 AM
They are all gone. You are going to have to find a used one.

strongpoint
06-05-2012, 10:46 AM
In essence it bans the bullet button and similar devices. However, its so poorly written the unintended consequences can get pretty bad. Merely the possession of one is illegal. That would include the one you "possess" as part of your rifle.

it does nothing of the sort. bullet-buttoned rifles are legal because of existing laws that SB 249 doesn't even TRY to alter.

1BigPea
06-05-2012, 10:48 AM
In essence it bans the bullet button and similar devices. However, its so poorly written the unintended consequences can get pretty bad. Merely the possession of one is illegal. That would include the one you "possess" as part of your rifle.

This is not a correct...sorry but nowhere in Yee's bill is this stated.

What everyone should be doing is keeping the discussion to a minimum. If you think they are not reading calguns you're mistaken, and stop giving them more ideas...

stix213
06-05-2012, 11:20 AM
I doubt you can find a U15. Last time I tried to buy one the guy never even bothered to write me back.

killmime1234
06-05-2012, 11:21 AM
Yee's bill does NOT ban the bullet button, let alone even affect it. Please try reading it again before spreading disinformation.

Also, the reason you have not seen posts detailing exactly why it doesn't make BBs illegal is because the mods on this forum have gone to great lengths to keep that information from getting to senator yee.

IPSICK
06-05-2012, 11:55 AM
Well the Yee bill does seem to make people think/believe the bullet button is illegal. We'll have to be vigilant to make sure people don't misunderstand this bill. It is possible this bill will make the simple/common/casual gunowners stay away from legal fixed mag semi-auto rifles.

bwiese
06-05-2012, 12:31 PM
U15's production run is over. Doubt there will be more - they're expensive to fabricate. The individual who did this work was doing it more for political ends than as an actual profit-seeking business entity.

Note that Exile Mfg. makes an adapter block device that can turn AR (fixed) stocks into a U15-like device that renders the system into a non-thumbhole/non-pistol-grip CA-compliant 'featureless' configuration [providing no flash hider on barrel, etc.]

The U15 stock and MonsterMan grip have already gone thru the legal drill in the 2007 Sonoma Firearms case (finally resolved in 2009 as a result of CGF support, along with the intestinal fortitude of John Contos to not fold in the face of adversity).

This was a DOJ-driven case that was in part Dept. AG Alison Merrilee's swan song exit from DOJ: she was given enough rope to hang herself. The matter involved the judge about to call into question the clarity of various aspects of CA's AW laws (i.e., void due to clarity issues) - before it was suddenly dropped by DA office. Mr. Contos successfully garnered an "FFI" (Factual Finding of Innocence) too.

While trial court results can differ from court to court and don't have same strength as published holdings from higher courts, the fact that FFI was issued and DOJ backed off indicated the strength of our side. While the MonsterMan grip appeared to have less drama than the U15 stock at that time, I was preparing to round up a fleet of mathemeticians (actually, topologists) as experts to discuss the nature of "holes", "openings", etc. in relation to the contours of the U15 stock. [Don Kilmer wanted to call a cop to the stand and have the cop take a bite out of a donut and ask if the hole was still there, but then Don is a funny guy.]

hornswaggled
06-05-2012, 1:09 PM
Wow, it's amazing to hear the back room dealings of these court cases Bill, thank you. I'll just keep donating to CGF and you keep doing what you guys do, deal? :D

3GunFunShooter
06-05-2012, 1:24 PM
If you can find a U-15 they are great. I have 2, one on my HD rifle and one on my
3 gun competition AR. Yes, they are a little heavy but it soaks up any recoil on my double taps. A local shooter was going to try and make some of the U-15's out of carbon fiber, but has not gone past the thinking about it stage. The Exile Machine would be my next choice for a build. Good luck with your search.

bcj128
06-05-2012, 2:46 PM
Thanks all. Didn't mean to stir up the angst. I do respectfully disagree as to the potential outcome of the legislation as I have read the bill, understand the intent behind it, and won't underestimate the antis determination to do what they "feel" is justified.

Ok, enough about that silliness. What are some other featureless stock systems for the AR? Pics would be great.

IPSICK
06-05-2012, 3:01 PM
Thanks all. Didn't mean to stir up the angst. I do respectfully disagree as to the potential outcome of the legislation as I have read the bill, understand the intent behind it, and won't underestimate the antis determination to do what they "feel" is justified.

Ok, enough about that silliness. What are some other featureless stock systems for the AR? Pics would be great.

Respectfully disagree all you like but review key terms like "fixed magazine"/"conversion kit" in the bill and case law regarding the bullet button and hopefully you'll realize that Yee's bill does not ban the bullet button.

Here's a basic question you have to ask yourself when you read it again:

How can you be converting a fixed magazine rifle with the bullet button, when the bullet button (per case law/DOJ rep testimony) is what is making the rifle have a fixed magazine?

Btw, I prefer a fixed stock with a pistol grip wrap for my featureless rifles. You can also fix a telescoping stock if you prefer. For me the easiest to modify (only tool I need are needle-nose pliers) are Magpul's CTR, STR, and ACS. You can also modify the fin on a grip wrap to fix a Magpul UBR without modifying the stock.

CSACANNONEER
06-05-2012, 3:05 PM
If you want to feel, shoot a U15, shoot me a PM and maybe we can get together. I just put one on an Addax billet lower and like it. Hell, I've got a MM and can probably dig up a grip wrap build for you to try too.

AlexDD
06-05-2012, 7:44 PM
[Don Kilmer wanted to call a cop to the stand and have the cop take a bite out of a donut and ask if the hole was still there, but then Don is a funny guy.]

:D:D:D