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capturedlive
06-04-2012, 5:10 AM
I recently took the Utah CCW course and am awaiting my permit in the mail. A guy recently showed me his in a snazzy case with a gold badge - it was pretty cool. I see websites online that sell said badges, but they are quasi-official looking and I was wondering if I could aggravate an LEO (while traveling in an approved state) having it with my ID. Any thoughts?

Brian1979
06-04-2012, 5:13 AM
Dont do it. We appear crazy enough to the general idiots out there. Adding a badge will put it over the edge.

The War Wagon
06-04-2012, 5:13 AM
31 flavors of FAIL!

If you try to LOOK like an LEO, & you're NOT, it will bite you in the azz eventually. My plastic, state-issued ID, has always sufficed.

adrenaline
06-04-2012, 5:22 AM
This has been covered before. If you want it for your desk as a coolness factor, so be it. DON'T carry it with you. I'd rather invest in a good wallet (id holder) that opens up and shows license with CCW/LTC.

This way, if I get pulled over, I can hand my ID to LEO and it will automatically communicate that I am an LTC holder.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6117/6329139156_1cf3a3e213_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56589483@N06/6329139156/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

davbog44
06-04-2012, 5:36 AM
Concealed means concealed. Something "announcing" you are carrying seems contrary to that.

Your permit is the only thing you need, and IMO the only thing you should carry on your person, for informing LE you are a valid permit holder, should circumstances or common sense require you do so.

stix213
06-04-2012, 5:40 AM
If you want ccw'ers to be labled as vigilantes, this seems like a perfect way to do it.

Eat Dirt
06-04-2012, 6:05 AM
This has been covered before. If you want it for your desk as a coolness factor, so be it. DON'T carry it with you. I'd rather invest in a good wallet (id holder) that opens up and shows license with CCW/LTC.

This way, if I get pulled over, I can hand my ID to LEO and it will automatically communicate that I am an LTC holder.

[/URL]

Good advice right there .......................................

Soldier415
06-04-2012, 7:00 AM
If you want a badge, go through the Academy and get hired.

billt
06-04-2012, 7:04 AM
The last time I sent away for a badge to pretend I was someone I wasn't, I was 7 years old and got the address off the back of a cereal box.

MaHoTex
06-04-2012, 7:04 AM
If you want a badge, go through the Academy and get hired.

^ This 1000%

zfields
06-04-2012, 7:06 AM
Get the sash while you are at it.

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

ZirconJohn
06-04-2012, 7:08 AM
MsVi2RqE7ek&list

Laser Sailor
06-04-2012, 7:13 AM
Badges? No.

But the sash should be mandatory.....

http://img.tapatalk.com/aad583be-d096-ff65.jpg

KakaduDreamer
06-04-2012, 7:26 AM
http://hvstatic9.hypervocal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/bad-idea-jeans.jpg

ZirconJohn
06-04-2012, 7:29 AM
Badges? No.

But the sash should be mandatory.....

http://img.tapatalk.com/aad583be-d096-ff65.jpg

:rofl2: Where can I get me one'a them, I wanna wear when I go to coffee shop... meet with other CCW'ers :sarcasm: :laugh:

Quiet
06-04-2012, 7:30 AM
Most issuing agencies in CA will revoke your LTC permit, if they find out you also carry/use a CCW badge.

capturedlive
06-04-2012, 8:01 AM
Ooooo-kayyy... so that would be a "no?"

Yeah, a pudgy 52-year old enlisting in the Academy... It'd make great TMZ footage, but not much else.

capturedlive
06-04-2012, 8:03 AM
Thanks for the input, everybody. I have been informed.

bussda
06-04-2012, 8:23 AM
As this topic comes up, I see the usual snarky and sarcastic comments. Some FUD, too. If used properly, it can be a useful tool. If abused, you will go to court.

joefreas
06-04-2012, 8:25 AM
Tell the Sheriff you want a badge with your CCW. Should be good for a laugh.

BHPFan
06-04-2012, 8:30 AM
Concealed means concealed. Something "announcing" you are carrying seems contrary to that.

Your permit is the only thing you need, and IMO the only thing you should carry on your person, for informing LE you are a valid permit holder, should circumstances or common sense require you do so.

+1

CCW badge defeats the purpose of what CCW is.

Oceanbob
06-04-2012, 8:39 AM
As this topic comes up, I see the usual snarky and sarcastic comments. Some FUD, too. If used properly, it can be a useful tool. If abused, you will go to court.

Sorry...but I don't see any advantage to a so called "Badge" other than causing confusion/trouble.

The last thing responsible, law-abiding, concealed carry citizens need is this sort of thing.

VMCJ-3
06-04-2012, 8:44 AM
Badges? No.

But the sash should be mandatory.....

http://img.tapatalk.com/aad583be-d096-ff65.jpg

On the Riverside County CCW/LTC application, it specifically prohibits any badges.

I wonder if that sash says: "shoot me first" on the front side?

billt
06-04-2012, 8:57 AM
As this topic comes up, I see the usual snarky and sarcastic comments.

It is only because it's almost funny to perceive having a badge to do something you don't require a badge for. Very few occupations require it. Usually some type of law enforcement or government official. But that's about it. People want this crap to be more "official" than they need to be. Police don't, and won't like it. You wouldn't carry a badge that says you are a concrete finisher, or a carpet installer, why do you need one to say you have a CCW? Just show the CCW. If you like the "flash factor" put it in an expensive wallet, and leave the picture of the broad they sell it with inside.

zfields
06-04-2012, 8:58 AM
I didn't mean to be snarky, I was just relating my experience and how I feel about it.





Don't worry, the rest of us are being snarky on purpose.

ZirconJohn
06-04-2012, 9:12 AM
.
Here'yago... I wanna be like this guy... secret agent CCW-BadgeMan... uhhh-ooooooo... :eek:

Only thing is - how do I get that theme song to follow me around all day...!?! :laugh: :rofl2:

OH WAIT... it's a, it's a... it's a CHL - 'Carry Handgun License' :smilielol5:

q_0RyNb57DQ

zfields
06-04-2012, 9:23 AM
.
Here'yago... I wanna be like this guy... secret agent CCW-BadgeMan... uhhh-ooooooo... :eek:

Only thing is - how do I get that theme song to follow me around all day...!?! :laugh: :rofl2:

OH WAIT... it's a, it's a... it's a CHL - 'Carry Handgun License' :smilielol5:



Sad part, the owner of that company probably takes himself seriously.

bussda
06-04-2012, 9:32 AM
People need to look at their assumptions. Just because a non LEO carries a badge, does not mean it will be abused. Possible? Yes. Likely? Depends.

As for the arguments why carry a badge, see http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=467876&highlight=badge . Sarcasm and snark included.

Note that the statement about carrying a badge is also made about carrying a gun.

ZirconJohn
06-04-2012, 9:56 AM
People need to look at their assumptions. Just because a non LEO carries a badge, does not mean it will be abused. Possible? Yes. Likely? Depends.

As for the arguments why carry a badge, see http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=467876&highlight=badge . Sarcasm and snark included.

Note that the statement about carrying a badge is also made about carrying a gun.

Ahhhhh ya... thanks bussda... I was looking for this VID... was in the link you posted ^^^ so... thank you.

It's a CCW License/BADGE classic... a true c-l-a-s-s-i-c-! :sarcasm: :D :laugh:

*** Watch for finger on the trigger :eek:

x_VnY0GuusQ#!

Eirerogue
06-04-2012, 10:00 AM
You'll just be perceived by LEO's as a wanna-bee and no one else should care. Concealed is concealed. An enameled badge serves you no purpose. If you want a badge, get a job that requires one.

erik_26
06-04-2012, 10:05 AM
Badge doesn't mean anything.

You could just as easily obtain a Police badge and wear that, it doesn't make you a LEO. Or a Fire badge and wear that, it doesn't make you a fireman. A CCW badge doesn't make you above anyone or exempt your negligent actions. Just because you have a badge doesn't mean that you actually have a CCW either.

It is socially taboo to wear a CCW badge because most of the public will automatically associate you as a someone with a power trip.

bussda
06-04-2012, 10:26 AM
You'll just be perceived by LEO's as a wanna-bee and no one else should care. Concealed is concealed. An enameled badge serves you no purpose. If you want a badge, get a job that requires one.

Basic assumption: CCW badge is a wannabe cop. Is that valid? No.
Similar assuption: LTC holder is a vigilante. Valid? No.

Badge doesn't mean anything.

You could just as easily obtain a Police badge and wear that, it doesn't make you a LEO. Or a Fire badge and where that, it doesn't make you a fireman. A CCW badge doesn't make you above anyone or exempt your negligent actions. Just because you have a badge doesn't mean that you actually have a CCW either.

It is socially taboo to wear a CCW badge because most of the public will automatically associate you as a someone with a power trip.

Basic assumption: CCW badge is a person on a power trip. Is that valid? No.
Similar assuption: Off duty LEO carrying badge is a person on a power trip. Valid? No.

billt
06-04-2012, 10:33 AM
This whole thread reminds me of that "Dog The Bounty Hunter" guy, who wears some gold plated badge around his neck with all of his black leather do dads and jewelry.

Eirerogue
06-04-2012, 10:34 AM
You can do your 'Valid' branding all day long. My opinion after 30 years in LE is that CCW badge will cause more problems than it's worth. And IMO, it's worth nothing.

Your opinion differs. Done.

Tiberius
06-04-2012, 10:46 AM
Love the sash.

But it doesn't go far enough.

I say we need a whole CCW uniform.

Distro
06-04-2012, 10:48 AM
As this topic comes up, I see the usual snarky and sarcastic comments. Some FUD, too. If used properly, it can be a useful tool. If abused, you will go to court.

People need to look at their assumptions. Just because a non LEO carries a badge, does not mean it will be abused. Possible? Yes. Likely? Depends.

As for the arguments why carry a badge, see http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=467876&highlight=badge . Sarcasm and snark included.

Note that the statement about carrying a badge is also made about carrying a gun.

Basic assumption: CCW badge is a wannabe cop. Is that valid? No.
Similar assuption: LTC holder is a vigilante. Valid? No.



Basic assumption: CCW badge is a person on a power trip. Is that valid? No.
Similar assuption: Off duty LEO carrying badge is a person on a power trip. Valid? No.

Just post pictures of your badge already.

REPR
06-04-2012, 10:56 AM
Ahhhhh ya... thanks bussda... I was looking for this VID... was in the link you posted ^^^ so... thank you.

It's a CCW License/BADGE classic... a true c-l-a-s-s-i-c-! :sarcasm: :D :laugh:

*** Watch for finger on the trigger :eek:

x_VnY0GuusQ#!

If that isn't a joke video then just, Wow! I honestly couldn't even laugh at the guy. I just kept thinking how has this guy not shot himself or anyone else yet :facepalm:

bussda
06-04-2012, 11:10 AM
You can do your 'Valid' branding all day long. My opinion after 30 years in LE is that CCW badge will cause more problems than it's worth. And IMO, it's worth nothing.

Your opinion differs. Done.

I understand. But my opinion is not the issue. It is the arguments are simplistic and emotional. Like guns are all bad, LTC carriers are bullys, etc.

Just post pictures of your badge already.

Invalid basic assumption. But I do want one that says "Stupid Idiot" instead of CCW holder. :)

ZirconJohn
06-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Thanks for the input, everybody. I have been informed.

Hey capturedlive... it's cool man... we are not thrashing you. No Sir! :no:

The concept of CCW badge is that which we attack... you are a good dude and you have taken this very-very well.

One day, if that day should ever come, you will be called upon to rebut the idea of the infamous CCW badge... annnnnnnd... one more thing...,

I'm certain you will love this --► --► I give you full permission to use the world famous "we don't neet no steenkING baadgees" video... how's that! :clap:

Geeze... I love that vid :D

Hmmm capturedlive - join date Sept 2010 w/ 110 posts... you should post more :yes:

Tiberius
06-04-2012, 12:39 PM
I think that dude in the video has Badge No. 1. He's the original!

ZirconJohn
06-04-2012, 12:51 PM
If that isn't a joke video then just, Wow! I honestly couldn't even laugh at the guy. I just kept thinking how has this guy not shot himself or anyone else yet :facepalm:

Oh I hear'ya... at least use of basic english would have been a plus!

Man... that guy, I could NOT imagine having a conversation with Mr CCW-Badge Kind'aGuy! :no:

capturedlive
06-04-2012, 1:38 PM
This whole thread reminds me of that "Dog The Bounty Hunter" guy, who wears some gold plated badge around his neck with all of his black leather do dads and jewelry.

Or in "Out of Sight," when Michael Keaton wore the windbreaker with the huge letters "FBI" across the front.

tacticalcity
06-04-2012, 1:55 PM
Seems a little wannabe-ish to me.

Agent Orange
06-04-2012, 2:22 PM
That you tube video is astonishing.

CCW badges are just another way for permit holders to self-aggrandize, as if many don't do enough of that as it is.

Ponderosa2
06-04-2012, 2:33 PM
I can't even think of a clever post, this is just baffling to me. I guess I feel like anyone wanting a badge to go with their LTC, really has reasons other than self defense for obtaining the LTC. If I ever make the choice to draw while I'm carrying there is no way in hell I'll have time to flash a badge ahead of time. I don't plan on giving my issuing agency any reason to revoke my LTC. This seems like it could point them in that direction.

bussda
06-04-2012, 2:45 PM
Or in "Out of Sight," when Michael Keaton wore the windbreaker with the huge letters "FBI" across the front.

That was a raid jacket and is authorized duty wear. And I think he was ATF...

Ken Woodford
06-04-2012, 2:47 PM
This has been covered before. If you want it for your desk as a coolness factor, so be it. DON'T carry it with you. I'd rather invest in a good wallet (id holder) that opens up and shows license with CCW/LTC.

This way, if I get pulled over, I can hand my ID to LEO and it will automatically communicate that I am an LTC holder.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6117/6329139156_1cf3a3e213_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56589483@N06/6329139156/sizes/l/in/photostream/)

I think this is perfect. When stopped always announce you have a gun in the car and you have a CCW. The cop will ask where the gun is or say ok lets see you DL and CCW permit.

If had stopped you and you handed me this ID wallet I would be thankful and impressed.

To the OP....when I was not retired and was stopped...never was I asked for the badge....every gun show you can buy a badge...a badge is worthless...the ID card or for CCW's the permit is what is needed. You're wasting your money buying a CCW badge.

DannyInSoCal
06-04-2012, 2:51 PM
<cough>POSER<cough>

NOTARPilot
06-04-2012, 2:51 PM
Thanks! LOL Actually, my son did just remind me that I did advertise that I had implants done by wearing my "Yes, They're Fake" t-shirt. BUSTED!(no pun intended!) :rolleyes:

This comment is completely useless without pics ;-)

tacticalcity
06-04-2012, 3:01 PM
That you tube video is astonishing.

CCW badges are just another way for permit holders to self-aggrandize, as if many don't do enough of that as it is.

Badge yes, id holder no. A seperate fold or holder inside your wallet specifically for your CCW(s) is a smart idea.

I don't have a sperate pocket or holder for mine but definately see the need. It is hard enough to find my CCW under normal circumstances. Last thing you want to have to do after an incident is search through your wallet for one of many credit card sized ids (out of state) or folded up id (CA) freaking out thinking it fell out or you lost it. You'll probably be in full on panic mode at that point, still suffering from shock and adrenaline overload. It would be very convinient. Just hand the officer that part of your wallet that holds the CCW(s). Keeps suspicion and doubt from entering his mind, and keeps you as calm as you can be given the circumstances.

capturedlive
06-04-2012, 3:04 PM
That was a raid jacket and is authorized duty wear. And I think he was ATF...

We were both wrong-- it was an FBI t-shirt.

capturedlive
06-04-2012, 3:05 PM
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-vTf2J4tmuhbbmn/out_of_sight_1998_boyfriend_introduction/

Mossy Man
06-04-2012, 3:54 PM
i'd rather stay home and get xbox achievements than a CCW badge

ZirconJohn
06-04-2012, 4:07 PM
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-vTf2J4tmuhbbmn/out_of_sight_1998_boyfriend_introduction/

Hhahhaaahhahaa... "tell me Ray, do ever wear one that says undrecover?" - that's so classic! :rofl2: :laugh:

bussda
06-04-2012, 4:31 PM
We were both wrong-- it was an FBI t-shirt.

I am so frequently wrong, I don't try to be right. :) I was speaking specifically to the wind breaker as a raid jacket.

BTW, Michael Keaton played a character with the same name in two movies, Outta Sight and Jackie Brown. He was not credited with the cameo in Outta Sight.

JAGACIDA
06-04-2012, 4:46 PM
After the badge, you'll only need the flashing lights...

dadoody
06-04-2012, 6:51 PM
I recently took the Utah CCW course and am awaiting my permit in the mail. A guy recently showed me his in a snazzy case with a gold badge - it was pretty cool. I see websites online that sell said badges, but they are quasi-official looking and I was wondering if I could aggravate an LEO (while traveling in an approved state) having it with my ID. Any thoughts?

I used to think I'd need it if I CCW'd to avoid getting shot at by police....but come to realize, they'd shoot anyway.

Best thing to accompany your CCW and gun is probably some sort of shielding I'd think.

bobomb
06-04-2012, 7:03 PM
lots of people have badges that shouldnt like private security and tsa

eh they are heavy and i got enough gear trying to pull my pants down cause my of my flat butt

Fjold
06-04-2012, 7:14 PM
I heard that the Pink Pistols thought that the CCW badges were just too gay.

ZirconJohn
06-04-2012, 7:19 PM
:rofl2: HHhhahaaa... that's ^^^ hilarious... :laugh:

Snoopy47
06-04-2012, 7:24 PM
Since the CCW weapon canít be seen by the public, then what do you need a badge for that canít be seen by the public?

Kodemonkey
06-04-2012, 7:25 PM
LMAO How did I not see this coming? Here ya' go!

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h163/dhagen02/1e40071c.jpg

LOL. Owned.:D

epilepticninja
06-04-2012, 7:50 PM
When stopped always announce you have a gun in the car and you have a CCW.

Unless it is specifically stated on your CCW license, you are not required to notify LE that you have a concealed weapon in the vehicle or on your person.

billt
06-05-2012, 3:40 AM
Here in Arizona a permit is not required to carry concealed or open. They still issue them, and I had mine renewed. That way you are eliminated from having to go through a background check whenever you purchase a firearm.

I was thinking of getting a Gold Badge that said: "Official Non Background Check Gun Buyer"

fizux
06-05-2012, 4:07 AM
Ironically, unlike us, private investigators needed to be specifically told that they don't need no stinkin' badges:
http://www.bsis.ca.gov/customer_service/faqs/pi.shtml

This is the only badge we need to be carrying:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003FZEOS6/
(don't forget to use the CGF Amazon referral credit thingy)

fizux
06-05-2012, 4:19 AM
Here in Arizona a permit is not required to carry concealed or open. They still issue them, and I had mine renewed. That way you are eliminated from having to go through a background check whenever you purchase a firearm.

I was thinking of getting a Gold Badge that said: "Official Non Background Check Gun Buyer"

Also restaurants/bars (as the DD, of course), within 1000 ft of a school, and reciprocity.

Ken Woodford
06-05-2012, 5:25 AM
Unless it is specifically stated on your CCW license, you are not required to notify LE that you have a concealed weapon in the vehicle or on your person.

Doesn't matter...personal safety is always paramount. I'd rather notify than to have an Officer find out by other means. But hey do what you want! Never said it was mandatory...said I would be thankful.

Bullcoop
06-05-2012, 6:54 AM
Justq finished my LTC class. One of the instructors (a sitting judge) said they're not a good idea (the badges) because of the "impersonating an officer" danger. All someone has to do is percieve you as representing a LEO.


Zirconjohn...you might know my instructors. I'm in Ukiah.

billt
06-05-2012, 7:11 AM
All someone has to do is percieve you as representing a LEO.

And that is the exact perception the badge flaunting CCW holder is trying to project, regardless of what they say otherwise. No badge is issued or required for CCW possession in any state. So if you go out of your way to obtain one, it is for the sole purpose of projecting a non existent perception. That is enough right there to pi$$ off any LEO. If there is one thing that sets off LEO's in general quickly, it is being "fooled". Be it by false statements, stupid fake badges, or anything else. The one thing LEO's never get enough of is the truth. The instant he sees a badge, he is automatically thinking LEO. As soon as he finds out what the badge is actually for, he isn't going to be joyful about it. Expect his next sentence to be, "What the hell do you have that thing for!?" Good luck with coming up with an answer that will satisfy him.

Bullcoop
06-05-2012, 7:30 AM
Plus its not like your gonna pull out a badge before you draw your weapon.
The only time one would use it would be after the fact.
"Stop I've got a badge...don't make me pull my gun!" ツ

daybreak
06-05-2012, 7:50 AM
i'm just here for the LOLs .

winnre
06-05-2012, 7:57 AM
In the words of Dexter Morgan, "I don't have a badge, I have a laminate."

bussda
06-05-2012, 9:16 AM
And that is the exact perception the badge flaunting CCW holder is trying to project, regardless of what they say otherwise. No badge is issued or required for CCW possession in any state. So if you go out of your way to obtain one, it is for the sole purpose of projecting a non existent perception. That is enough right there to pi$$ off any LEO. If there is one thing that sets off LEO's in general quickly, it is being "fooled". Be it by false statements, stupid fake badges, or anything else. The one thing LEO's never get enough of is the truth. The instant he sees a badge, he is automatically thinking LEO. As soon as he finds out what the badge is actually for, he isn't going to be joyful about it. Expect his next sentence to be, "What the hell do you have that thing for!?" Good luck with coming up with an answer that will satisfy him.

The simple answer is "Because of officer safety training and the assumption that a man with a gun and no badge is a criminal." If the officer cannot understand that answer, it will take either his superiors or a judge to settle it.

billt
06-05-2012, 9:30 AM
The simple answer is "Because of officer safety training and the assumption that a man with a gun and no badge is a criminal." If the officer cannot understand that answer, it will take either his superiors or a judge to settle it.

Regardless, you'll be on the receiving end of it, sitting in a jail cell directly because of it. I hope the gold plating, enamel, and $30 bucks was worth it. :rolleyes:

bussda
06-05-2012, 10:26 AM
Regardless, you'll be on the receiving end of it, sitting in a jail cell directly because of it. I hope the gold plating, enamel, and $30 bucks was worth it. :rolleyes:

If an LTC holder has an interaction with an officer, it is good odds he will go to jail. Badge or not. So what difference does that make?

Let me try to break the endless loop many are caught up in. Carrying the badge is not about impersonating an officer. It is about trying to make people think before they act. Unfortunately, some people do not want to think. When people say it will cause trouble, I know why, but it is not what they know, but what they assume or believe.

winnre
06-05-2012, 10:34 AM
The ONLY use for the badge, as far as I can see, is that if you accidentally show your weapon a bystander may see the badge too, assuming it is on the belt next to the weapon, assume you are an officer and not freak out over seeing a gun and calling 911. Does this happen? Yea I guess it can. Is it worth it? I guess that's what sells the badges. Not for me though, thanks. It may not be illegal to carry it, but it isn't smart.

winnre
06-05-2012, 10:49 AM
I use this badge on these forums all the time:


http://readingforrobin.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/grammar-police-badge-2.png


I did see an "Official B**b Inspector" badge, I wonder if that would work?

billt
06-05-2012, 10:53 AM
Carrying the badge is not about impersonating an officer. It is about trying to make people think before they act. Unfortunately, some people do not want to think. When people say it will cause trouble, I know why, but it is not what they know, but what they assume or believe.

You're trying to make this into something it isn't. By the time you show it, they will have already acted. The only thing you are going to accomplish is, for a very brief amount of time, make people, (LEO's), think you are someone you in fact are not. They will act accordingly, which will not be in your favor. The reasoning for this is simple. Police run into people all the time who are CCW holders. All but a very small fraction of one percent of them do not have badges. The reason is because they are not required, needed, or necessary. The ones who feel they have some silly, abstract need for them, are going to offset the thinking of the LEO's who run into them for no good reason, other than to try to embellish their presence with some sort of official looking badge, that is not required in the first place.

Having a badge saying you're a CCW holder is like a garbage man wearing a Brooks Brothers 3 piece suit. While there is no law against it, it is foolish reasoning to wear one. The only necessity present here is the one you create in your mind.

ZNinerFan
06-05-2012, 11:01 AM
That sash gave me a good laugh.

ironpete
06-05-2012, 11:15 AM
If used properly, it can be a useful tool.

Out of curiosity, what is the proper use of the "badge"?

Bullcoop
06-05-2012, 11:55 AM
Yup...I'm gonna need clarification on "used properly" too. I just don't see any upside and a huge down side.
Also, in our CCW class they advised us to NOT say anything about having a ccw unless asked. Don't lie, just attend the traffic stop and be on your way.
Again I'm in a CCW friendly county.

Bullcoop
06-05-2012, 11:56 AM
↑ the second paragraph is referring to a traffic stop.

bussda
06-05-2012, 11:57 AM
The ONLY use for the badge, as far as I can see, is that if you accidentally show your weapon a bystander may see the badge too, assuming it is on the belt next to the weapon, assume you are an officer and not freak out over seeing a gun and calling 911. Does this happen? Yea I guess it can. Is it worth it? I guess that's what sells the badges. Not for me though, thanks. It may not be illegal to carry it, but it isn't smart.

Some people carry on the waist, but if you carry in the pocket, this does not apply. And people do call 911 when they see a gun and no badge.

Showing a badge is going to "make people think before they act"? If someone hinky approached me with less than honorable intentions, I should show this "badge" to let them know I am carrying and THAT is going to make a criminal THINK twice? Can I get a clarification on this because 1.) Showing that to a would be attacker is to possibly make him think you are an LEO and that is intentional impersonation and 2.) If a criminal is intent on committing a crime, a little badge is not going to stop him. Either way, you showing this non-official badge can still seen as impersonating an officer.

You quote classic cases of officer impersonation. Not my argument.

You're trying to make this into something it isn't. By the time you show it, they will have already acted. The only thing you are going to accomplish is, for a very brief amount of time, make people, (LEO's), think you are someone you in fact are not. They will act accordingly, which will not be in your favor. The reasoning for this is simple. Police run into people all the time who are CCW holders. All but a very small fraction of one percent of them do not have badges. The reason is because they are not required, needed, or necessary. The ones who feel they have some silly, abstract need for them, are going to offset the thinking of the LEO's who run into them for no good reason, other than to try to embellish their presence with some sort of official looking badge, that is not required in the first place.

Having a badge saying you're a CCW holder is like a garbage man wearing a Brooks Brothers 3 piece suit. While there is no law against it, it is foolish reasoning to wear one. The only necessity present here is the one you create in your mind.

No.

It not a status thing. It is about getting people to think before acting. Unless you understand why cops have shot cops and how to prevent it, you will not understand my argument. Ignorance can be bliss, knowing can cause worry.

bussda
06-05-2012, 12:23 PM
Out of curiosity, what is the proper use of the "badge"?

Yup...I'm gonna need clarification on "used properly" too. I just don't see any upside and a huge down side.
Also, in our CCW class they advised us to NOT say anything about having a ccw unless asked. Don't lie, just attend the traffic stop and be on your way.
Again I'm in a CCW friendly county.

Quoting my self from another thread:

When the change in LTC (CCW) issuance in the 90's occurred, there was a significant issue with off duty and plainclothes being shot (and killed) only because they had their handgun in their hand. Training was included that when an officer was not in uniform to display his badge when drawing his weapon. Usually by holding over the head and rotating the badge in all directions. Use of the badge makes use of that training to get responding officers to think before pulling the trigger.

I understand.

Some officers will shoot a man with a gun unless they see a badge which implies LEO which implies 'good' guy. So do not shoot. Thus non LEO take advantage of that training.

(Note that sworn LEOs also have an LTC, usually issued by the employing department.)

While we would like to believe that police officers would think before acting, this is not always the case. To better understand this point I suggest reading Emotional Inteligence by Daniel Goleman. Fact of life: Some people react without thinking


Ok, what else can it be interpreted as by a random Joe Blow citizen who sees a badge? If someone flashes me a badge, I think "LEO" Since you say I quoted "classic" cases of officer impersonation, fine. Tell me what else it can be interpreted as.

If someone flashes a badge, I consider it an intimidation tactic, unless they are acting in an official capacity. There are other exceptions. Lots of power in that symbol.

zfields
06-05-2012, 12:49 PM
If an LTC holder has an interaction with an officer, it is good odds he will go to jail.
there went any and all credibility you had.

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

emsalex
06-05-2012, 12:56 PM
i had a hunch BUSSDA's master plan was to impersonate a peace officer, and there it is.

also being put in handcuffs wile things are sorted out and being arrested are not the same thing. One of them is more likely than the other.

billt
06-05-2012, 1:04 PM
It not a status thing. It is about getting people to think before acting. Unless you understand why cops have shot cops and how to prevent it, you will not understand my argument.

How about shedding some facts on your "argument". How many cops have shot CCW holders unknowingly?

winnre
06-05-2012, 1:07 PM
Ok, what else can it be interpreted as by a random Joe Blow citizen who sees a badge? If someone flashes me a badge, I think "LEO" Since you say I quoted "classic" cases of officer impersonation, fine. Tell me what else it can be interpreted as.

I have been mistaken for a cop even though my law enforcement career ended in 1987. I have even had officers ask me which department I worked for and they were surprised I was not LEO. Maybe it's the military haircut. Whatever it is, I cannot be told I am impersonating a cop just with the haircut. Heck you can wear a shirt saying POLICE and it is not impersonation. Go figure.

One bad thing about looking like a cop, I get lousy lap dances at clubs.

J_Franchise
06-05-2012, 1:27 PM
Carrying a badge does nothing but hurt the CCW cause, IMO. You have the general public already weary about "every-day Joes" carrying concealed (I know we're straying away from the term "concealed"), and here you have some CCW holders walking around with a badge that makes them look like LEO. That furthers the general perception that CCW holders are nothing but wanna-be LEOs, or even vigilantes. This surely does not help out your cause of changing the LTC environment in Kali.

emsalex
06-05-2012, 2:11 PM
^ I do that, dont make much money though.

bussda
06-05-2012, 2:22 PM
Ok, not trying to dig in here but you say unless they are acting in an official capacity. How am I(normal average Jane, mom of two, never on the wrong side of the law) supposed to deduce that this person flashing a badge at me, is acting in an official capacity and not just intimidation?

I know some cops. I know some serious dickhead cops and I know some seriously awesome cops. There are factions of both and then a few "gray" area cops. I know CCW'ers. Some are complete idiots but Hey, they have their CCW when I wouldn't give them a can of pepper spray, but I digress, I also know some CCW'ers that do not consider it an extension of their male parts. All sides have them but who's to say who is using it as they should and who is using it as an ego boost/imtimidation?

There is no absolute answer. Just determine if it reasonable and common sense.

there went any and all credibility you had.

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

But that is not the issue. :)

i had a hunch BUSSDA's master plan was to impersonate a peace officer, and there it is.

also being put in handcuffs wile things are sorted out and being arrested are not the same thing. One of them is more likely than the other.

But I have no master plan. And if there is a need to put a person in handcuffs while investigating, there is a big problem. Yes I know why, but the basic assumption is flawed. But that is outside this topic.

How about shedding some facts on your "argument". How many cops have shot CCW holders unknowingly?

Don't know. Never said that. I did mention about cops shooting cops though. Even one is too many. ETA: There is one. Eric Scott case. More: https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/category/erik-scott-case/

bussda
06-05-2012, 2:38 PM
Carrying a badge does nothing but hurt the CCW cause, IMO. You have the general public already weary about "every-day Joes" carrying concealed (I know we're straying away from the term "concealed"), and here you have some CCW holders walking around with a badge that makes them look like LEO. That furthers the general perception that CCW holders are nothing but wanna-be LEOs, or even vigilantes. This surely does not help out your cause of changing the LTC environment in Kali.

Understand carrying a badge can be considered dorky and silly.

But so can carrying a:
smartphone
pager
calculator
screwdriver
knife
gun
pen
computer
flashlight
pliers
can opener
bottle opener
corkscrew
safety pin
handkerchief
needle and thread
slide rulle.

Misuse and you get arrested. Used properly it is an effecive tool. Context is important.

billt
06-05-2012, 3:19 PM
There is one. Eric Scott case. More: https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/category/erik-scott-case/

A badge would not have saved Eric Scott.

bussda
06-05-2012, 3:30 PM
A badge would not have saved Eric Scott.

Agreed. But he was a LTC holder, he was shot by police, there is no evidence the police knew he possessed a LTC before he was shot. Police responding to a man with a gun.

Gryff
06-05-2012, 3:33 PM
Dont do it. We appear crazy enough to the general idiots out there. Adding a badge will put it over the edge.

Bingo. I actually saw a dumb*** wearing one around his neck on a lanyard in a store.

winnre
06-05-2012, 3:39 PM
A badge would not have saved Eric Scott.

Would seeing one on his mark would it have slowed down Zimmerman?

billt
06-05-2012, 3:40 PM
Agreed. But he was a LTC holder, he was shot by police, there is no evidence the police knew he possessed a LTC before he was shot. Police responding to a man with a gun.

Scott was shot because he did not drop his weapon when ordered to do so. Police responded accordingly. It would not have mattered if they knew he had a CCW, a badge, or anything else. He was a threat. You have no argument. CCW badges are useless and stupid, and accomplish nothing.

Gryff
06-05-2012, 4:04 PM
Scott was shot because he did not drop his weapon when ordered to do so. Police responded accordingly. It would not have mattered if they knew he had a CCW, a badge, or anything else. He was a threat. You have no argument.

Scott was shot by three armed cops while he had no weapon in his hand. Some threat.

emsalex
06-05-2012, 4:05 PM
This reminds me of a joke.

Hoy do you know when theres a volunteer firefighter in the room?

Don't worry he will let you know.

bussda
06-05-2012, 4:10 PM
Scott was shot because he did not drop his weapon when ordered to do so. Police responded accordingly. It would not have mattered if they knew he had a CCW, a badge, or anything else. He was a threat. You have no argument. CCW badges are useless and stupid, and accomplish nothing.

Scott's pistol was found by a paramedic in the holster on the way to the hospital. The only provable thing in his hand was a cellphone. There is disagreement as to whether any commands were given and time to complete them prior to firing the shots. See https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2011/11/17/the-erik-scott-case-update-7-reprised/

Would a badge have changed anything? I do not know. But do not confuse fact with opinion.

SWalt
06-05-2012, 4:17 PM
Having a fake badge is ludicrous. If you haven't avoided the situation and had to present your weapon, its too late to be fumbling around with some make believe badge. If I had to present my weapon in a situation and flashed a fake badge when the cops showed up, I'd expect at the very least to get my a** reamed after they found out I wasn't a cop for putting thier lives in possible danger. I also expect to have guns pointed at me until I'm disarmed and sitting cuffed in the back of a squad car and the situation assessed. I don't see any good in having one. As far as the guy in the video....:facepalm:

emsalex
06-05-2012, 5:05 PM
LMAO! OMG That is so true! I grew up with my mom being a volunteer firefighter in what was then a male dominated(and still is to some degree) profession and she always said "I don't do dick measuring 'cause I ain't got one" But in our small town, there were the guys on the dept that made it clear to EVERYONE that they were "on the Dept" LMAO

Quite true, I always say " HE will let you know" on purpose. woman 95% of the time just get the job dun and go home

SDM44
06-05-2012, 8:54 PM
:cool:


http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1323/waffbadge.jpg

erik_26
06-05-2012, 9:35 PM
Personally, I can't see myself carrying a badges around with me.

Unless there was a law requiring it.

If anything, once this CCW badge is exposed on CBS 5 (or whatever channel it is on), there will be outrage from Senator Yee and there will be a bill drafted to outlaw them.

J_Franchise
06-06-2012, 9:32 AM
Understand carrying a badge can be considered dorky and silly.

But so can carrying a:
smartphone
pager
calculator
screwdriver
knife
gun
pen
computer
flashlight
pliers
can opener
bottle opener
corkscrew
safety pin
handkerchief
needle and thread
slide rulle.

Misuse and you get arrested. Used properly it is an effecive tool. Context is important.


What? Your response to my statement makes little sense.

I assert that carrying a CCW badge is unwise because it causes the public to perceive you as a LEO, when you are not. This situation could understandably
make the general public uncomfortable, since the perception would be that CCW holders are walking around with badges, pretending to be LEOs. This negative perception could lead to legislation which further limits your right to carry.

IMO, there is no proper "use" of a CCW badge. It is a novelty item only, not suitable for presentation to those unaware of it's true function (a toy / prop). In other words, it is reasonable to assume that the presentation of a CCW badge will cause an individual to assume you are a LEO. This is, of course, against the law.

Your list of other carriable items would not, by a reasonable person, be intrepreted as items identifying an individual as a LEO. As such, you are free to carry them around with you and all you'll get are funny glances, if that.

capturedlive
06-06-2012, 2:13 PM
I was also going to ask about getting a Crown Vic with an Interceptor to go with the badge, but forget that now.

drifts1
06-06-2012, 5:04 PM
So would this be a bad time to get CCW badge group buy going? :hide:

Rorge Retson
06-06-2012, 9:46 PM
Concealed means concealed. Something "announcing" you are carrying seems contrary to that.

Reminds me of a guy I grew up with who had a nondescript 73 Nova, which had a license plate that said SLEEPER. :rolleyes:

Quiet
06-06-2012, 11:15 PM
Fact is, in CA, carrying a "CCW badge" can cause you to run afoul CA law [PC 538d].
Because if you carry one and some one sees it & thinks your a peace officer, you would be in violation of the law [PC 538d(b)].

Then add in the fact, that if your issuing agency finds out you carry a "CCW badge", they will revoke your CA LTC permit.

Leads to the conclusion that a "CCW badge" is not worth the trouble it generates.




Penal Code 538d
(b)(1) Any person, other than the one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, who willfully wears, exhibits, or uses the badge of a peace officer with the intent of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(2) Any person who willfully wears or uses any badge that falsely purports to be authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, or which so resembles the authorized badge of a peace officer as would deceive any ordinary reasonable person into believing that it is authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, for the purpose of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a
misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

Kappy
06-07-2012, 9:50 AM
Fact is, in CA, carrying a "CCW badge" can cause you to run afoul CA law [PC 538d].
Because if you carry one and some one sees it & thinks your a peace officer, you would be in violation of the law [PC 538d(b)].

Then add in the fact, that if your issuing agency finds out you carry a "CCW badge", they will revoke your CA LTC permit.

Leads to the conclusion that a "CCW badge" is not worth the trouble it generates.

I was going to say something similar.

I think the OP gets the idea, now, that it isn't a good choice.

That being said, I've seen these badges in two local stores now. One of the guys at my local club got one and jeez did he get a ribbing. He was wearing it next to his gun. I don't understand how any store which offers CCW training can offer these tins.

billt
06-07-2012, 10:04 AM
I don't understand how any store which offers CCW training can offer these tins.

If they did, I would question the whole concept of their "training".

ZirconJohn
06-07-2012, 10:09 AM
Fact is, in CA, carrying a "CCW badge" can cause you to run afoul CA law [PC 538d].
Because if you carry one and some one sees it & thinks your a peace officer, you would be in violation of the law [PC 538d(b)].

Then add in the fact, that if your issuing agency finds out you carry a "CCW badge", they will revoke your CA LTC permit.

Leads to the conclusion that a "CCW badge" is not worth the trouble it generates.




Penal Code 538d
(b)(1) Any person, other than the one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, who willfully wears, exhibits, or uses the badge of a peace officer with the intent of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(2) Any person who willfully wears or uses any badge that falsely purports to be authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, or which so resembles the authorized badge of a peace officer as would deceive any ordinary reasonable person into believing that it is authorized for the use of one who by law is given the authority of a peace officer, for the purpose of fraudulently impersonating a peace officer, or of fraudulently inducing the belief that he or she is a peace officer, is guilty of a
misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

DANG...! There goes the CCW Badge group-buy... and I was saving my money too! :mad:

HHhahhahhaa :rolleyes: :sarcasm: :laugh:

winnre
06-07-2012, 10:36 AM
bring one to your CCW interview and say you are looking forward to the day you can pin the badge on.

If you still get your permit then we're all wrong and you are right.

winnre
06-07-2012, 10:46 AM
Silver badge for revolvers.
Gold badge for semi-autos.

Tappymac
06-07-2012, 12:33 PM
This idea may be one of the dumbest things I have ever read on a message board.

Dreaded Claymore
06-07-2012, 12:45 PM
Sean Connery told us, "You got a badge? Carry a gun!" It's good advice. But I think that the converse is not.

(The OP got the idea within the first 40 posts, but I just wanted to say that.)

pyromensch
06-07-2012, 7:23 PM
.
Here'yago... I wanna be like this guy... secret agent CCW-BadgeMan... uhhh-ooooooo... :eek:



:

q_0RyNb57DQ

Ahhhhh ya... thanks bussda... I was looking for this VID... was in the link you posted ^^^ so... thank you.

It's a CCW License/BADGE classic... a true c-l-a-s-s-i-c-! :sarcasm: :D :laugh:

*** Watch for finger on the trigger :eek:

x_VnY0GuusQ#!

one of the reasons, that "youtube" is a value to society......you never know how many "darwins" there are out there, until you search

Rorge Retson
06-07-2012, 8:07 PM
Ahhhhh ya... thanks bussda... I was looking for this VID... was in the link you posted ^^^ so... thank you.

It's a CCW License/BADGE classic... a true c-l-a-s-s-i-c-! :sarcasm: :D :laugh:

*** Watch for finger on the trigger :eek:

x_VnY0GuusQ#!

This is a billion kinds of awesome...