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johnm589
06-01-2012, 1:12 PM
Hey everyone. I'm new to the forums and I have a quick question about gun legality in California:

I can be considered a dual resident in Nevada and California (have houses in both states) however I mostly live in the state of California.

I was wondering if I bought a handgun that wasn't on the approved handgun roster in Nevada and brought it over to California, would it be OK as long as I registered the handgun with the DOJ? Are there any limitations to doing this or would I be better off just leaving that particular handgun in Nevada?

Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Untamed1972
06-01-2012, 1:16 PM
That would be legal. Just can't bring any +10 mags, or AWs over.

My understanding also is that if you dont ever have the gun in CA for more than 60days at a time you dont need to register it either. It's a slightly greyish area though.

johnm589
06-01-2012, 1:42 PM
My understanding also is that if you dont ever have the gun in CA for than 60days at a time you dont need to register it either. It's a slightly greyish area though.

Interesting. Although I'm fairly certain it would be almost impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in court that the handgun was in fact in the state for longer than 60 days,I think I'd register it anyways. I'd rather not learn the hard way! ;)

paul0660
06-01-2012, 1:45 PM
That would be legal.

the problem I see is that you register it with the NEW resident handgun form. The intent of that seems clear.

Untamed1972
06-01-2012, 2:06 PM
the problem I see is that you register it with the NEW resident handgun form. The intent of that seems clear.

When you are in CA you are a resident of CA. When you are in NV you are a resident of NV. Everytime you return to CA from NV you are a NEW resident.

Untamed1972
06-01-2012, 2:07 PM
Interesting. Although I'm fairly certain it would be almost impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in court that the handgun was in fact in the state for longer than 60 days,I think I'd register it anyways. I'd rather not learn the hard way! ;)

Like I said...it's a greyish area. How often to you go back and forth? If you took it back and forth with you each time, the 60day clock would reset each time.

Untamed1972
06-01-2012, 2:55 PM
If the OP can buy a handgun in NV, he must be a resident of NV. Just because he visits his second home in CA does not make him a new resident of CA.

And, how would he register a handgun in CA? Use his NV Driver's license on the new resident HG form?

Couldn't he just use the VolReg form?

Ubermcoupe
06-01-2012, 3:11 PM
IIRC, The only issue that has been brought up before is that one can only have one Drivers License at any time.

Proving your residency applicability to purchase firearms in your state is up to the laws of that state.

paul0660
06-01-2012, 3:53 PM
I like to run right on the edge of gun law, and still be legal, but I don't think this will work. If he has had gun forms filed in California previously, red flag. If he vol regs or otherwise registers another gun later, red flag. But heck, try it, just entertainment on this end.

Untamed1972
06-01-2012, 4:00 PM
I like to run right on the edge of gun law, and still be legal, but I don't think this will work. If he has had gun forms filed in California previously, red flag. If he vol regs or otherwise registers another gun later, red flag. But heck, try it, just entertainment on this end.

Per federal law you can legally be a resident of more than one state for the purposes of legally purchasing firearms in each state while you are there.

How would it be any different if he had guns at his NV place and decided to sell it and be a fulltime CA resident. The guns were legally purchased in NV, there is nothing CA can do about that.

As far as ID, you can have DL in one state and State ID card in other. People do it everyday. I dont think one is required to be a state resident to register a gun here.

Librarian
06-01-2012, 4:25 PM
I'm not seeing the volreg form on the DOJ website; assuming it were available -- what ID does he use to register?



The OP meets NV's criteria. He's a NV resident. The time he spends in CA is a matter between him and the CA FTB for the purpose of filing non-resident income taxes.

I see no requirement nor reason to register his handguns when he's visiting his second home in CA.

The formal name for VOLREG is "Firearm Ownership Record". It asks for Enter your California driver license (CDL), California ID (CID), or Military ID (MIL) number in the ID number box to the right. If using military identification you must send a copy of your permanent duty station orders stating you are stationed in California.

ja308
06-01-2012, 6:07 PM
They used to. The applications now have a question about ID or DL in another state to be answered under penalty of perjury. These days, if you have it, they want it.

A friend moved to NV in 2007, walked into the DMV a CA resident and walked out with NV DL and NV plates. That's all changed. NV still issues a seasonal resident ID -- not useful for buying firearms.

I'd keep my NV resident status -- why become a resident of a slave state.

welcome Librarian -- the voice of reason has arrived.

good advice ,although i would inquire if the OP has voted for the dominant party in cali . If he has he should keep cali residence as to protect his political beliefs .:D
His vote would be wasted in Nevada ,if he does enjoy the cali agenda:cool2:

johnm589
06-01-2012, 6:21 PM
Wow, thanks for all the input everyone. A lot of excellent points here.

I am now leaning towards not registering it as I do travel back and forth more frequently than once per 60 days and according to the law, this seems to be perfectly legal. However by the looks of it, maybe I should acquire the services of a legal professional to help decipher the overly complicated and ridiculous California gun laws and keep me out of state prison!

Thankfully, slowly but surely I am in the process of moving out of the Socialist's Republic of California for good and to Nevada solely and permanently.

P.S. For those that are wondering, the firearm in question here is a Ruger 22/45 with replaceable hand grips. Legal here in California without the replaceable grips but clearly a dangerous weapon that should be banned when it has them! :kest:

dantodd
06-01-2012, 6:21 PM
They used to. The applications now have a question about ID or DL in another state to be answered under penalty of perjury. These days, if you have it, they want it.

A friend moved to NV in 2007, walked into the DMV a CA resident and walked out with NV DL and NV plates. That's all changed. NV still issues a seasonal resident ID -- not useful for buying firearms.

I'd keep my NV resident status -- why become a resident of a slave state.

welcome Librarian -- the voice of reason has arrived.

This is due to the "Real ID Act" only one DL per person. I don't think you need ID in NV to buy from a private party.

johnm589
06-01-2012, 6:27 PM
good advice ,although i would inquire if the OP has voted for the dominant party in cali . If he has he should keep cali residence as to protect his political beliefs .:D
His vote would be wasted in Nevada ,if he does enjoy the cali agenda:cool2:

I vote in California (when possible) for this very reason!

eltee
06-02-2012, 10:49 AM
Did NV DMV reinstate the "Seasonal Resident" program?

gatesbox
06-02-2012, 11:04 AM
This is due to the "Real ID Act" only one DL per person. I don't think you need ID in NV to buy from a private party.

This is the problem I have run into, can you have a state issued ID in more than one state and is a state issued ID required to purchase a firearm? it certainly is in CA. I am considering trying the same thing in Oregon wher we own a home for our occasional use (it is actually the only house we own.). OR technically does not require a DL but government issued ID, so technically my passport and proof of residency shold suffice, but I hear that is not too popular with the local FFLs and likely not to fly.

If you are married the possible scenario would be for one spouse to be resident in each state via ID. That way any CA purchases could be gifted from your spouse and out of state purchases are made via your NV ID. Additionally, if reciprocity passes, then your NV CCL would be valid in CA.

Quiet
06-02-2012, 10:53 PM
Did NV DMV reinstate the "Seasonal Resident" program?

NV DMV has never suspended the Seasonal Resident ID.
If you goto NV DMV and attempt to obtain a NV DL without surrendering your current state's DL, you will be issued a Seasonal Resident ID.

However, per NV law [NRS 482.103], a NV Seasonal Resident is not resident of NV.

Because the NV Seasonal Resident ID is not valid proof of NV residency and in accordance with Federal laws, a person with a NV Seasonal Resident ID can not legally acquire a firearm in NV without the firearm being transfered through a FFL dealer in their state of residency, which is not NV.



Nevada Revised Statue 482.103
“Resident” defined.
2. The term does not include a person who is an actual tourist, an out-of-state student, a border state employee or a seasonal resident.

Ricky James
06-03-2012, 12:36 AM
But what about dealing with just state IDs? Would it be possible to have a CA DL and obtain a state ID somewhere else like OR, NV, or AZ?

morrcarr67
06-03-2012, 5:51 AM
IIRC, The only issue that has been brought up before is that one can only have one Drivers License at any time.

Proving your residency applicability to purchase firearms in your state is up to the laws of that state.

You are correct. You may only have one DL at one time. You may however have a DL in one state and an ID in a different state.

Ford8N
06-03-2012, 5:54 AM
IIRC, The only issue that has been brought up before is that one can only have one Drivers License at any time.

Proving your residency applicability to purchase firearms in your state is up to the laws of that state.

Yes, but an FFL would not sell to you unless you have a valid state DL.

Per federal law you can legally be a resident of more than one state for the purposes of legally purchasing firearms in each state while you are there.

How would it be any different if he had guns at his NV place and decided to sell it and be a fulltime CA resident. The guns were legally purchased in NV, there is nothing CA can do about that.

As far as ID, you can have DL in one state and State ID card in other. People do it everyday. I dont think one is required to be a state resident to register a gun here.

You can't get an ID in one state and have a DL in another, you have to surrender the DL.

But what about dealing with just state IDs? Would it be possible to have a CA DL and obtain a state ID somewhere else like OR, NV, or AZ?

No.

To the OP. Just surrender your CA DL and get a Nevada DL. Unless your job requires you to have a CA DL, get an out of state DL. In fact every gun owner in the state of California should do that. If you don't need or are required to have as a condition of employment, a California DL, get an out of state DL. Then you can have your Second Amendment rights back.

thechad
06-03-2012, 6:03 AM
Yes, but an FFL would not sell to you unless you have a valid state DL.



You can't get an ID in one state and have a DL in another, you have to surrender the DL.



No.

To the OP. Just surrender your CA DL and get a Nevada DL. Unless your job requires you to have a CA DL, get an out of state DL. In fact every gun owner in the state of California should do that. If you don't need or are required to have as a condition of employment, a California DL, get an out of state DL. Then you can have your Second Amendment rights back.

You don't know what your talking about, I am an Oregon resident with Oregon DL, I have a California ID card. With California ID I have bought guns in California, and my California ccw


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taperxz
06-03-2012, 6:11 AM
Hey everyone. I'm new to the forums and I have a quick question about gun legality in California:

I can be considered a dual resident in Nevada and California (have houses in both states) however I mostly live in the state of California.

I was wondering if I bought a handgun that wasn't on the approved handgun roster in Nevada and brought it over to California, would it be OK as long as I registered the handgun with the DOJ? Are there any limitations to doing this or would I be better off just leaving that particular handgun in Nevada?

Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I vote in California (when possible) for this very reason!

I'm scepticle, it is nearly impossible now for a person to legally purchase a handgun if they have CA ID. In Nevada from an FFL.

The background check WILL reveal that the OP is a CA resident! IF the OP is not a CA resident, why the need to vol reg a handgun here?

Why commit voter fraud by voting in CA?? If the OP is acting in the manner he states above, he is either committing voter fraud or illegal arms purchases.

You can't pick and choose which laws to follow and which laws not to follow.

At one time my seasonal ID was legit for purchases I made in NV and kept them at my other home in NV. NO LONGER.

taperxz
06-03-2012, 6:15 AM
You don't know what your talking about, I am an Oregon resident with Oregon DL, I have a California ID card. With California ID I have bought guns in California, and my California ccw


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I bet you got your CCW PRIOR to your Oregon DL! I'd like to see how renewal works out for you.

thechad
06-03-2012, 6:37 AM
Received ccw last month, have always had Oregon DL and Oregon ccw


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taperxz
06-03-2012, 6:39 AM
Received ccw last month, have always had Oregon DL and Oregon ccw


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Cool! What county? What sheriff issued that?

thechad
06-03-2012, 6:55 AM
That is butte county, have a couple friends that have done it in Shasta also Trinity


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johnm589
06-03-2012, 10:31 AM
I'm scepticle, it is nearly impossible now for a person to legally purchase a handgun if they have CA ID. In Nevada from an FFL.

The background check WILL reveal that the OP is a CA resident! IF the OP is not a CA resident, why the need to vol reg a handgun here?

Why commit voter fraud by voting in CA?? If the OP is acting in the manner he states above, he is either committing voter fraud or illegal arms purchases.

You can't pick and choose which laws to follow and which laws not to follow.

At one time my seasonal ID was legit for purchases I made in NV and kept them at my other home in NV. NO LONGER.

Ok maybe you didn't realize that I am a resident of BOTH states meaning that I can claim residency in Nevada AND California? Voter fraud?? REALLY? How do you call it voter fraud if I'm a RESIDENT!!!!! I pay all the necessary taxes and can claim residency in California, therefore I have the RIGHT to vote in the state of California.

Illegal firearms purchases?? I can assure you that every firearm I own or will ever own for that matter was bought legally from an authorized dealer. Not like I'd be going out there buying guns from "Easy Andy" the street gun dealer!

Given what you have said in your comment, I realize that reading probably makes you sleepy which is why you didn't bother to read my OP. So to save you the trouble I will again reiterate so that you can follow whats going on here...I'M A RESIDENT OF BOTH STATES SO NOTHING I HAVE SAID COULD BE MISCONSTRUED AS ILLEGAL.

johnm589
06-03-2012, 10:41 AM
Yes, but an FFL would not sell to you unless you have a valid state DL.



You can't get an ID in one state and have a DL in another, you have to surrender the DL.



No.

To the OP. Just surrender your CA DL and get a Nevada DL. Unless your job requires you to have a CA DL, get an out of state DL. In fact every gun owner in the state of California should do that. If you don't need or are required to have as a condition of employment, a California DL, get an out of state DL. Then you can have your Second Amendment rights back.


My driver's license is in Nevada. I have bought many firearms in California through an authorized dealer using a State ID card and proof of residency (car registration,utility bill etc.) and left these firearms in California. Also, I have bought firearms from authorized dealers in Nevada using only my NV driver's license which is all that is required by the state of Nevada, although I could provide residency there too, but its a free(er) state and I am not legally required to do so. The guns I purchase in Nevada have stayed in Nevada and the reason for the OP was to see about the legality of moving a firearm purchased in Nevada that isn't on the handgun list to California.

However I think I have my answer...as long as I only bring it in state for a period no longer than 60 days at a time I should be good.

I appreciate all the input from everyone on this.

gbp
06-03-2012, 10:48 AM
>180 days

taperxz
06-03-2012, 11:46 AM
Ok maybe you didn't realize that I am a resident of BOTH states meaning that I can claim residency in Nevada AND California? Voter fraud?? REALLY? How do you call it voter fraud if I'm a RESIDENT!!!!! I pay all the necessary taxes and can claim residency in California, therefore I have the RIGHT to vote in the state of California.

Illegal firearms purchases?? I can assure you that every firearm I own or will ever own for that matter was bought legally from an authorized dealer. Not like I'd be going out there buying guns from "Easy Andy" the street gun dealer!

Given what you have said in your comment, I realize that reading probably makes you sleepy which is why you didn't bother to read my OP. So to save you the trouble I will again reiterate so that you can follow whats going on here...I'M A RESIDENT OF BOTH STATES SO NOTHING I HAVE SAID COULD BE MISCONSTRUED AS ILLEGAL.

If you are a resident of both states that means you vote in both states?

You can have many residences as I do too. You can only have one primary residence. I too own a place in Nevada and was told by both states I could only have one primary residence. If you vote in CA, that is your primary! You are thus a resident of CA who lives P/T in Nevada. They don't let you have it both ways.

If you claim primary in Nevada, it would be illegal to vote in CA. If you declare CA as your primary, it would be illegal to buy a handgun in NV without going through a CA FFL which is Federal Law.

johnm589
06-03-2012, 12:10 PM
If you are a resident of both states that means you vote in both states?

You can have many residences as I do too. You can only have one primary residence. I too own a place in Nevada and was told by both states I could only have one primary residence. If you vote in CA, that is your primary! You are thus a resident of CA who lives P/T in Nevada. They don't let you have it both ways.

If you claim primary in Nevada, it would be illegal to vote in CA. If you declare CA as your primary, it would be illegal to buy a handgun in NV without going through a CA FFL which is Federal Law.

Where did I say I vote in BOTH states? I said I vote in California and my primary is in California. As for buying a handgun in Nevada, I wouldn't know as I have only bought long guns without issue.

taperxz
06-03-2012, 12:19 PM
Where did I say I vote in both states? I said I vote in California and my primary is in California. As for buying a handgun in Nevada, I wouldn't know as I have only bought long guns without issue.

I never said you voted in both states, you said you voted in CA and claimed you are a resident of NV.

Firearms when sold are supposed to follow the laws of the state of primary residency, (federal law). There has been wiggle room on long arms.

I bet if you try to buy a hand gun, you'll be put on a 3 day hold for further investigation of your background check. THEN, you could have problems.

BTW your OP mentions hand guns. I would be careful if I were you.

dantodd
06-03-2012, 12:21 PM
If you are a resident of both states that means you vote in both states?

You can have many residences as I do too. You can only have one primary residence. I too own a place in Nevada and was told by both states I could only have one primary residence. If you vote in CA, that is your primary! You are thus a resident of CA who lives P/T in Nevada. They don't let you have it both ways.

If you claim primary in Nevada, it would be illegal to vote in CA. If you declare CA as your primary, it would be illegal to buy a handgun in NV without going through a CA FFL which is Federal Law.

Firearms purchases are not limited to your state of primary residence. With multiple residences that are bona fide residences you can purchase firearms in each state in which you have a residence.

johnm589
06-03-2012, 12:23 PM
Firearms purchases are not limited to your state of primary residence. With multiple residences that are bona fide residences you can purchase firearms in each state in which you have a residence.

This was my understanding as well.

taperxz
06-03-2012, 12:24 PM
Firearms purchases are not limited to your state of primary residence. With multiple residences that are bona fide residences you can purchase firearms in each state in which you have a residence.

This was not my experience in Nevada.

dantodd
06-03-2012, 12:28 PM
I am now leaning towards not registering it as I do travel back and forth more frequently than once per 60 days and according to the law, this seems to be perfectly legal. However by the looks of it, maybe I should acquire the services of a legal professional to help decipher the overly complicated and ridiculous California gun laws and keep me out of state prison!


You might want to reconsider this. If you are ever arrested for illegal concealed carry etc. (e.g. forget to lock your gun case after a day at the range) having the gun registered keeps you in misdemeanor territory where you could potentially face a felony and loss of fun rights if the gun isn't registered to you in CA.

johnm589
06-03-2012, 12:32 PM
I never said you voted in both states, you said you voted in CA and claimed you are a resident of NV.

Firearms when sold are supposed to follow the laws of the state of primary residency, (federal law). There has been wiggle room on long arms.

I bet if you try to buy a hand gun, you'll be put on a 3 day hold for further investigation of your background check. THEN, you could have problems.

BTW your OP mentions hand guns. I would be careful if I were you.

I mention handguns because I've never done it before but I wanted to. However I don't think it should make a difference from long guns but knowing some of the messed up gun laws it wouldn't be unreasonable to find out if it actually does.

It is my understanding that you can purchase firearms in another state of residency (not primary) as long as they are meant for that particular residence. Also, under California law, firearms from other states can be brought into the state without registration for a period of no longer than a period of 60 days.

So I should be able to bring a handgun purchased in Nevada to California as long as it does not exceed the time. Or maybe not :confused:....

Like I said..perhaps its time to consult a lawyer.

dantodd
06-03-2012, 12:33 PM
This was not my experience in Nevada.

In what way. It is perfectly legal per ATF definition of "State of Residency." However; you are effectively denied the right by the Real ID Act as stated above because it prohibits you from obtaining the type of ID suitable to most states for firearms purchases.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-61029.html

A little more info: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-6.pdf
ATF has previously addressed the eligibility of individuals to acquire firearms who maintain residences in more than one State. Federal regulations at 27 CFR 478.11 (definition of State of Residence), Example 2, clarify that a U.S. citizen with homes in two States may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a firearm in that State. See also ATF Publication 5300.4 (2005), Question and Answer B12, page 179. Similarly, in ATF Ruling 80-21 (ATFB 1980-4, 25), ATF held that, during the time college students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off- campus location, they are considered residents of the State where the on-campus or off- campus housing is located.

So, just owning land or a home is not sufficient to claim residency but if you don't rent the house out and you actually live in the house for a portion of the year then residency can be claimed.

johnm589
06-03-2012, 12:34 PM
You might want to reconsider this. If you are ever arrested for illegal concealed carry etc. (e.g. forget to lock your gun case after a day at the range) having the gun registered keeps you in misdemeanor territory where you could potentially face a felony and loss of fun rights if the gun isn't registered to you in CA.

Its only a felony if the gun has been in the state for longer than 60 days though right?

And I make sure to lock it in the trunk EVERY time anyways..

taperxz
06-03-2012, 12:43 PM
In what way. It is perfectly legal per ATF definition of "State of Residency." However; you are effectively denied the right by the Real ID Act as stated above because it prohibits you from obtaining the type of ID suitable to most states for firearms purchases.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-61029.html

A little more info: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-6.pdf

I was put on a 3 day hold with a handgun purchase and was told if may be my affiliation with CA. Was told this by the NV FFL. Prior to that I had no problems with a long gun purchase.

If I'm wrong, THAT'S COOL! It was just my experience in NV with a NV ID and a home in CA also.

taperxz
06-03-2012, 12:46 PM
In what way. It is perfectly legal per ATF definition of "State of Residency." However; you are effectively denied the right by the Real ID Act as stated above because it prohibits you from obtaining the type of ID suitable to most states for firearms purchases.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-61029.html

A little more info: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-6.pdf


So, just owning land or a home is not sufficient to claim residency but if you don't rent the house out and you actually live in the house for a portion of the year then residency can be claimed.

Wow, that's cool! Wish I had this info 5 years ago. Like I said, it was just my experience. Long guns was a walk in and walk out experience for me.